Irish gun dealers selling pistols

mosulli4 · 12-07-2006 11:21am #1

Morning all...

Has anyone purchased a pistol yet through a local gunshop? I believe some dealers are importing them singly.

Let me know who you used, and whether it was good value.

I would love to obtain one of those CZ 85s, with the Kadet 22lr adaptor...

thanks,

mosulli4

Rovi · 12-07-2006 12:11pm

I got mine from Pat Cooke in Hilltop Quad, near Newtownmountkennedy, County Wicklow (http://www.pcquad.com/).

Price was the same as in the North, converted to Euros of course.
A little bit dearer than advertised on the German/Continental websites, but I put a fair bit of value on dealing with a real live person over a gun shop counter, and it simplified paperwork/language issues significantly (I speak fluent Wicklish

).

All else being reasonably equal, I prefer to do business with the locals.

de_shadow · 12-07-2006 12:13pm

Outdoor hobby in leixlip tel.01 6104426 and
Griffen Hawe in Athy , i dont have a phone number,
Are two ive heard of .
The Cz is going for about €650-700 and the adapter is roughly the same because you need a seperate cert for it ,its probably a better idea to just get a full .22lr pistol i think some of them are starting at the €300 mark like the Sig. mosquito.
Jim Halpin in listowel tel.068 22392 i dont know if the's getting pistols but a phone call could find that out.
Hope this helps.

mosulli4 · 12-07-2006 1:11pm

Thanks to everyone.

I just had a chat with Outdoor Hobby. Very helpful, and good prices.

Much appreciated.

Mosulli4

Clare gunner · 12-07-2006 1:57pm

[The Cz is going for about €650-700 and the adapter is roughly the same because you need a seperate cert for it ,its probably a better idea to just get a full .22lr pistol i think some of them are starting at the €300 mark like the Sig. mosquito.

Wasnt this supposed to be done away with in the new legislation,or somthing regarding the Sako Quad style rifles??

Sparks · 12-07-2006 2:10pm

No CG, the thing about the Quad in the legislation was saying that it wasn't an offence to have one (otherwise, it could be interpreted that changing the barrels on a quad could be a criminal offence as you were changing the calibre of the rifle).

In section 65 of the Bill:

(4) Subject to subsection (5), it is an offence to modify a firearm so as to render its reloading mechanism fully automatic or to increase its calibre, irrespective of whether the firearm, as so modified, is a restricted firearm.

(5) Subsection (4) does not apply to a firearm designed and manufactured so as to enable barrels of different calibres to be attached to it.

I wonder if (5) there means you could legally modify a Quad or something similar to be automatic?

mcguiver · 12-07-2006 4:13pm

I've bought /I mean paid for a pistol through Outdoor Hobby.
Very friendly service.... untill I paid up.
Arrived in with cert, Article (7?) etc. was told, a week to 10 days coming from Germany.
Rang them 2 weeks later..."eh um... ehh.. nothing yet, we'll ring you back."
Another week passed.."It's left Germany... should be a few days"
Currently week 7 "eh... um..... paperworks holding it up, we'll be in touch".

To date they haven't called once even to say, there's no news.
Couldn't recommend them I'm afraid.

civdef · 12-07-2006 4:45pm

What benefits does an individual get going to an Irish dealer as a middleman for a European dealer, to justify the dealer's cut?

newby.204 · 12-07-2006 5:28pm

Sparks wrote:

No CG, the thing about the Quad in the legislation was saying that it wasn't an offence to have one (otherwise, it could be interpreted that changing the barrels on a quad could be a criminal offence as you were changing the calibre of the rifle).

In section 65 of the Bill:

I wonder if (5) there means you could legally modify a Quad or something similar to be automatic?

Soory to hijack

One question, aside froma flat out no from the super, what is policy, garda style of course, on getting a SEMI-AUTO rifle in .223????

Sparks · 12-07-2006 5:32pm

I don't think there is one yet Newby. There is at least one licenced in the country already though, a H&K SL8.

newby.204 · 12-07-2006 5:35pm

Sparks wrote:

I don't think there is one yet Newby. There is at least one licenced in the country already though, a H&K SL8.

Right well i guess ill be leaving it at the one then, not worth the hassle!!!

whupass · 12-07-2006 5:49pm

for hand guns what is the highest cal.? i was looking at a walther p99 which is a 9mm. and you can get it for $571.99 on impactguns.com, they sell a lot of hand guns and rifles.

another question you are aloud extended clips right? the p99 comes with a 10 rd clip and you can get a 15. the ps90 (civilian semi-auto version of the p-90) comes with a 30 round clip and you can get a 50.

Sparks · 12-07-2006 5:57pm

whupass wrote:

for hand guns what is the highest cal.? i was looking at a walther p99 which is a 9mm. and you can get it for $571.99 on impactguns.com, they sell a lot of hand guns and rifles.
another question you are aloud extended clips right? the p99 comes with a 10 rd clip and you can get a 15. the ps90 (civilian semi-auto version of the p-90) comes with a 30 round clip and you can get a 50.

There are no rules on calibre, nor on extended clips. There are several .40s and .45ACPs out there. Don't know of any .50s myself, but there's no law against it. Now, as to what you local superintendent says, that's another ballgame.

And in a few months, it'll be another ballgame all over again with the changes from the CJB.

whupass · 12-07-2006 6:31pm

Sparks wrote:

There are several .40s and .45ACPs out there. Don't know of any .50s myself,

no i meant a 50 round clip if that is what you were talking about.

ty

P.S. what about buying ammunition for your gun? i guess you can buy it the same place you buy your gun but in bulk? on impact you can get 2,000 9mm for $297.99 what's the law on buying ammunition in bulk?

Sparks · 12-07-2006 6:41pm

whupass wrote:

no i meant a 50 round clip if that is what you were talking about.

No, I meant calibre. There are several .40 calibre and .45ACP calibre pistols currently licenced, and while I don't know of anyone playing silly buggers and shooting with a desert eagle, there's no law says they can't.

P.S. what about buying ammunition for your gun? i guess you can buy it the same place you buy your gun but in bulk? on impact you can get 2,000 9mm for $297.99 what's the law on buying ammunition in bulk?

Your licence tells you how many rounds you can have. Mostly, the licences are granted with a 100 round limit, but that can be changed if you ask and have a decent reason. It's not unusual for smallbore or airgun target shooters to have up to 10,000 rounds on their licence. For fullbore though, that might make a superintendent a tad nervous unless you can show him that you're actually using that much ammunition (as opposed to selling a few hundred rounds to shifty-looking characters down the pub).

Your firearms dealer can get in a multiple of the amount on your licence (2.5 times? 5 times? I can't remember how much), but if you want to buy in bulk for economy, that's not going to help you much!

Clare gunner · 12-07-2006 7:07pm

newby.204 wrote:

Soory to hijack

One question, aside froma flat out no from the super, what is policy, garda style of course, on getting a SEMI-AUTO rifle in .223????

Proably falls under the "idonlikedelookodat" guidelines.And now under CJB there is the thing that it is the comissioners decision as to what is a restricted firearm,and that you have to prove that only that type of weapon will be suitable for your paticular needs.So say,you want an AR15,you will proably have to prove membership of a practical rifle club,and that the 15 is the most suitable rifle for the job[which it would be] but no doubt Supt Oaf will say a single shot 303 will be in his/her opinion a much better rifle,like it or lump it,or maybe insist you have a 308FN Fal as that is an army gun[In that case dontc argue with them :eek: ].but would you get said AR15 or FN FAL for hunting???Big question.

Wouldnt be much point Sparks in converting a Sako Quad to automatic,as it is a bolt action.But if you were upgrading a 223 straight pull AR15 to semi or up to 243 or308.Then it is a possibility.

whupass · 12-07-2006 7:16pm

what would be your reason for the ps90 short barrel fifle?

somethig like " it has to be short so i can fit it in the case i swear!!"??

Sparks · 12-07-2006 7:20pm

Clare gunner wrote:

Proably falls under the "idonlikedelookodat" guidelines.And now under CJB there is the thing that it is the comissioners decision as to what is a restricted firearm,and that you have to prove that only that type of weapon will be suitable for your paticular needs.

Exactly.

Wouldnt be much point Sparks in converting a Sako Quad to automatic,as it is a bolt action.

Thanks CG, I did know that

What I meant was, is there something similar to a Quad but in semi?

But if you were upgrading a 223 straight pull AR15 to semi or up to 243 or308.Then it is a possibility.

Can't be an upgrade, it has to be designed for it, like the quad. Otherwise it's not covered.

Rovi · 12-07-2006 7:45pm

Sparks wrote:

Can't be an upgrade, it has to be designed for it, like the quad. Otherwise it's not covered.

Hmmm...
I wonder where the CZ KADET Adaptor fits into all this?
http://www.czub.cz/index.php?p=32&idp=1&ids=5&idz=19&lang=en

It's a .22LR adaptor specifically designed for their 75/85 range of pistols.

whupass · 12-07-2006 7:53pm

.22 lr is tiny right?

well i'm the kind of person who wants a bigger handgun than that, i think that if i had a .22 hand gun i wouldn't be as happy with it as a 9mm

also i didn't think handguns were made in that cal. it is the one used in most rifles right?

civdef · 12-07-2006 8:00pm

Whupass, would I be right in guessing that any sort of firearms cert is some years distant in the future for you?

whupass · 12-07-2006 8:05pm

2 months

Rovi · 12-07-2006 8:05pm

whupass wrote:

.22 lr is tiny right?

well i'm the kind of person who wants a bigger handgun than that, i think that if i had a .22 hand gun i wouldn't be as happy with it as a 9mm

also i didn't think handguns were made in that cal. it is the one used in most rifles right?

Exactly the same .22LR as is made and used in vast quantities all around the world, and was for all practical purposes the only (rifle) calibre available here for many years. Huge numbers of handguns are manufactured in the calibre, in semi-automatic, revolvers, and single shot.
I'm sure someone will be able to educate me, but I don't know of any handgun maker who doesn't do something in .22LR.

Sparks · 12-07-2006 8:14pm

Rovi wrote:

Hmmm...
I wonder where the CZ KADET Adaptor fits into all this?
http://www.czub.cz/index.php?p=32&idp=1&ids=5&idz=19&lang=en
It's a .22LR adaptor specifically designed for their 75/85 range of pistols.

Not affected Rovi: article (5) says "it is an offence to modify a firearm so as to ... increase its calibre". So if you put in the Kadet adaptor, you decrease the calibre; and if you take it out, you have the firearm you're licenced for in the first place. (Taking out the adapter doesn't mean that the adapter itself increases the calibre, in other words, so you couldn't have a situation where putting it in was legal, but taking it out wasn't).

whupass wrote:

.22 lr is tiny right?

Sure, till it hits you. Then it's not so tiny anymore.

well i'm the kind of person who wants a bigger handgun than that, i think that if i had a .22 hand gun i wouldn't be as happy with it as a 9mm

Yeesh. And yet, that's a very popular viewpoint it seems. Who cares where the bullet hit, how loud was that bang?

whupass · 12-07-2006 8:14pm

i don't think fn does they even only make .308 rifles (as far as i know)

Sparks · 12-07-2006 8:15pm

FN do a lot more than .308 rifles whupass.

whupass · 12-07-2006 8:20pm

well i went onto impact guns(yes it is the only place i know okok please suggest somewhere else to buy guns) and the only fnn RIFLES they had were .308 oh wait no they had 1 .300WSM (which is?)

Rovi · 12-07-2006 8:22pm

Sparks wrote:

FN do a lot more than .308 rifles whupass.

But he is correct in that they don't (appear to) do a .22LR pistol.

Would I be stretching things a bit so suggest that the Five-seveN is technically the same diameter as .22LR?

Rovi · 12-07-2006 8:25pm

whupass wrote:

well i went onto impact guns(yes it is the only place i know okok please suggest somewhere else to buy guns) and the only fnn RIFLES they had were .308 oh wait no they had 1 .300WSM (which is?)

Winchester Short Magnum.

Loads of FN stuff- http://www.fnhusa.com/

Sparks · 12-07-2006 8:32pm

Rovi wrote:

But he is correct in that they don't (appear to) do a .22LR pistol.

True. I thought they used to make a browning .22 pistol though?

Would I be stretching things a bit so suggest that the Five-seveN is technically the same diameter as .22LR?

Yes

whupass · 12-07-2006 8:48pm

there was one pistol that they sold accesories for but it itself was discontinued maybe that is it?

Wanderer222 · 12-07-2006 8:51pm

I am obviously wrong here judging from the replies, but I thought people were unable to get any kind of a handheld pistol licence in Ireland? except maybe for sports shooting or the like...

Sparks · 12-07-2006 8:55pm

No, pistols were always licencable in Ireland, but from '72 to '04 there was a policy in the department of justice and in the Gardai to not issue licences for them. That policy has now been rescinded.

Rovi · 12-07-2006 11:59pm

Sparks wrote:

True. I thought they used to make a browning .22 pistol though?

Yes, they still make the Browning Buckmark in .22LR (11 versions of it!), but that's marketed and sold under the 'Browning' banner. As far as I can see, there are no .22LR pistols sold under the 'FN' brand.

Here's the parent company, FN Herstal- http://www.fnherstal.com/html/Index.htm

Sparks · 13-07-2006 12:20am

Rovi wrote:

Yes, they still make the Browning Buckmark in .22LR (11 versions of it!), but that's marketed and sold under the 'Browning' banner. As far as I can see, there are no .22LR pistols sold under the 'FN' brand

Yeah, it was the buckmark I was thinking of. Oh well, there's one company so

Dvs · 13-07-2006 12:22am

whupass wrote:

for hand guns what is the highest cal.? i was looking at a walther p99 which is a 9mm. and you can get it for $571.99 on impactguns.com, they sell a lot of hand guns and rifles.

another question you are aloud extended clips right? the p99 comes with a 10 rd clip and you can get a 15. the ps90 (civilian semi-auto version of the p-90) comes with a 30 round clip and you can get a 50.

I have to ask whupass,
how old are you ?
I have read some of your other posts on the shooting forum,
and you seem to be a young person.
your question regarding reloading was a classic!

Your apparent searching the internet and finding what you consider gems of information and posting them here is not helpful or contributing anything to the forum, perhaps it might be better if you continue to read the forum but not post until you have something to post from your own experience in shooting sports.

Do you have any experience with firearms whatsoever?

If not and you would like to, why not join a club near you,
and gain some, then perhaps after you are a little experienced you might consider becoming involved in shooting handguns.

Your above comments about 30 and 50 round magazines,
might be viewed by somebody reading this forum,
as the comments of an experienced shooter, and frankly is not the image,
that I for one would like to be seen in.

I have tried very hard not to come across as an old git in this post,
but if I have failed it's only because I am one

Dvs.

Sparks · 13-07-2006 12:24am

Oh come on Dvs, we were all juniors once. Besides, some of our older hands aren't anywhere nearer the image we'd like to see either. Better that whupass be here and learn something than not if you ask me.

Dvs · 13-07-2006 12:37am

Sparks wrote:

Oh come on Dvs, we were all juniors once. Besides, some of our older hands aren't anywhere nearer the image we'd like to see either. Better that whupass be here and learn something than not if you ask me.

Sparks,
I have no problems with whupass being here as you put it,
I lurk on a few forums that I like to read and hopefully learn something...

But I don't post just for the sake of it,
and try to come across as knowing something about the subject,
while it is obvious to anyone that does know something about the topic,
that I am spoofing and posting stuff I have Googled for the sake of it.

Dvs.

Sparks · 13-07-2006 12:47am

DvS wrote:

But I don't post just for the sake of it,
and try to come across as knowing something about the subject,
while it is obvious to anyone that does know something about the topic,
that I am spoofing and posting stuff I have Googled for the sake of it.

Indeed. We call that experience (or wisdom or maturity if we're feeling generous). Thing is, most youngsters learn it by doing it and being shown up. Doesn't mean you have to grind them down for it. We've precious enough new people coming into the sport as it is - our average age is in the mid-forties...

jaycee · 13-07-2006 1:14am

Just an interesting point..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rovi
Hmmm...
I wonder where the CZ KADET Adaptor fits into all this?
http://www.czub.cz/index.php?p=32&id...idz=19&lang=en
It's a .22LR adaptor specifically designed for their 75/85 range of pistols.

Not affected Rovi: article(5) says "it is an offence to modify a firearm so as to ... increase its calibre". So if you put in the Kadet adaptor, you decrease the calibre; and if you take it out, you have the firearm you're licenced for in the first place. (Taking out the adapter doesn't mean that the adapter itself increases the calibre, in other words, so you couldn't have a situation where putting it in was legal, but taking it out wasn't).

The Kadet adaptor carries its own serial number and therefore requires a seperate licence . The kit contains a .22 slide (inc sights) barrel and recoil spring and comes with a .22 magazine.
The price of the adaptor kit , along with the licence issue means there is surprisingly little difference between buying the kit , and buying a full .22 Kadet pistol .

Sad ..but true.

whupass · 13-07-2006 1:25am

Thank you Sparks, but I do understand where you are coming from Dvs. You would be right in assuming that I am young (15 and have never said otherwise ask anyone who asked before you) but as I said earlier i will be old enough to buy a gun in 2 months and wholly wish I were able to but live in the city and my parents (well I am 15) are opposed. As I grow older and buy my own home I intend to buy a gun. The reason I ask these questions is so I can gain insight to what gun to buy.

You asked if I had any experience? Well EVERY man in my family has been in the reserves and I intend to follow as soon as I can, you may be saying to yourself "That's not experience" well no that doesn't count BUT two of my uncles own guns of there own. One uncle in particular, Don, has a .22LR magnum and a .223. Every time I meet Don he alows me too shoot one of his guns on his farm or at the range. (You might not count it but I just thought I would throw this in. I can get Time Crisis II finished with one try (shows my age too)) I have a paintball marker and hope to get involved with Airsoft as soon as it takes off in Ireland.

To sum up, yes I am a child and I have little experience.

1 question for you Dvs. When you said
"Your above comments about 30 and 50 round magazines,
might be viewed by somebody reading this forum,
as the comments of an experienced shooter, and frankly is not the image,
that I for one would like to be seen in." did you not notice that my post was CLEARLY a question? ALL my posts are questions.

And lastly I don't Google "stuff" to put on the forum, all my posts are questions so that, given time to gain EXPERIENCE, I will be able to answer the questions of other people who don't happen to know that the word "reload" has two meanings.

Vegeta · 13-07-2006 9:43am

whupass please continue to ask questions. The best thing you can do is ask questoins. I hate when people look down on others for this. How else can you learn. Ask and I will try and answer.

I am only 23 and have been shooting since i was 17 (applied when i was 16 but refused due to being too young!!!!) I have been out with my dad and brother since i was 12 or 13. I have a shotgun, an air rifle and a .223 rifle.

I will just say be careful what websites you use to get your info as it could be an american site who more than likely cannot sell you ammo or guns. The majority of people here will have bought most of their guns in ireland. A few will have purchased them from abroad but there is a lot of paper work involved.

In ireland 9mm ammo is very expensive when compared to .22lr ammo. If the handgun is being used for target shooting only ( I cant really think of another reason you may want one) then a .22lr would be great to learn with. Its cheaper and you'll learn the fundamentals of maksmanship.

Very large magazines are not needed for target shooting, maybe for the practical style competitions. Why pay for a longer extended magazine if you don't need it. You could spend the money on ammo, glasses, ear muffs a safe or an alarm for your house. To be honest at 16 the super at your local garda station will be very hard to convince. I was turned down at 16 for a shotgun so can you imagine what'd they'd say if I wanted a handgun :eek:

There's no doubt age is on your side if you want to start training for serious competition. In which case start investigating clubs which are near your home and will let you join. They will probably run safety course which will help you when you do eventually apply.

Don't be fooled though its an expensive sport.

Sparks · 13-07-2006 11:05am

There's no doubt age is on your side if you want to start training for serious competition.

Believe it or not, he's getting on a bit for serious competition.
No, I'm not joking. Abroad, most of the ISSF juniors are training by the time they're ten or twelve, and have been shooting for a while before that.

Vegeta · 13-07-2006 11:10am

Sparks wrote:

Believe it or not, he's getting on a bit for serious competition.
No, I'm not joking. Abroad, most of the ISSF juniors are training by the time they're ten or twelve, and have been shooting for a while before that.

I meant in terms of the Irish scene though

or maybe not

sidneyreilly · 13-07-2006 11:56am

Hi Whupass. It is very advisable to start with a .22 pistol, in fact some ranges (and quite rightly) do not allow you use a full bore until you have shot some .22 pistol under supervision of the R.O. or an experienced member and achieved reasonable accuracy.
Full bore pistols (particularly semi-autos) can be very jarring to shoot and I've seen a couple of people instantly develop a flinch because they haven’t worked up to it.
A large number of current pistol shooters will have both a full bore and small bore pistol in order to enter both competitions (usually held at the same time).

You would be best advised to try shooting .22, find which type (i.e. semi or revolver) or make/model will suit you best then do the same with a full-bore.

Have you ever shot a pistol?

Sparks · 13-07-2006 12:03pm

It is very advisable to start with a .22 pistol

Heck, it's even more advisable to start with an air pistol. Cheaper, both to buy and run; less needed in terms of a range; a decent one will cost about €250 to €350 depending on where you buy and what deal you get, and will last you for decades and be good enough to get you from neophyte to world cup entrant; and most gardai won't be as freaked out about the idea of giving a 16-year-old a licence for an air pistol. Plus, the basic skills are unaltered from air to .22 to fullbore, assuming you're shooting ISSF-style instead of with a two-handed grip.

sidneyreilly · 13-07-2006 12:16pm

Sparks wrote:

and most gardai won't be as freaked out about the idea of giving a 16-year-old a licence for an air pistol.

This would be universaly true sparks. Altough I was speaking from personal shooting habits, none of our guys shoot air pistols, (also it's the same licence).

Perhaps getting one of the new training certificates would be the best way forward (whenever that comes out)

Sparks · 13-07-2006 12:34pm

Perhaps getting one of the new training certificates would be the best way forward (whenever that comes out)

Indeed, but thats a few weeks or months away. If they're not around by the time he goes looking for a licence, well, best to start with something that doesn't have a lethal range of up to a mile, right?
(And yes, I'm assuming that whupass will be joining his local club. That's rather a given).

13-07-2006 1:17pm

Whupass - I would go with the advice of an Air Pistol

You will learn a lot more form that then any other pistol. I recently started pistol in the US and have trained on .22s and Air pistols and without a doubt the Air Pistol is most educational. Plus they are less hassle to get then a .22 pistol.

Rovi · 13-07-2006 1:31pm

Vegeta wrote:

If the handgun is being used for target shooting only ( I cant really think of another reason you may want one)...

Apart from a (rumoured) very few allegedly licenced for humane dispatch (to vets and huntsmen), target shooting is currently the only reason for which handgun licences are being issued.

The 'humane dispatch' thing may gain some traction in the future for deer hunters, but I think we can expect the issuing of handgun licences to continue in a very conservative manner. Short of licences for destructive devices and full-auto firearms, I would expect them to remain as the most difficult licence to obtain.

sidneyreilly · 13-07-2006 2:32pm

Rovi wrote:

Apart from a (rumoured) very few allegedly licenced for humane dispatch (to vets and huntsmen), target shooting is currently the only reason for which handgun licences are being issued..

Nothing alleged about it Rovi, the odd thing is that you still have to pay a license fee when a humane killer is supposed to be on a free authorization

Rovi wrote:

The 'humane dispatch' thing may gain some traction in the future for deer hunters, but I think we can expect the issuing of handgun licences to continue in a very conservative manner. Short of licences for destructive devices and full-auto firearms, I would expect them to remain as the most difficult licence to obtain.

Agreed, certainly for full bore, although I suspect .22lr (perhaps with a minimum barrel restriction) and air pistols will be left as normal. Full bore users will have to prove themselves highly qualified to get or retain their licences. (so get competing now and get your names on score sheets!):eek:

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