Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2013

mike65 · 20-05-2013 11:21am

Everyone loves stats so here is (drum roll) "The season in numbers"

Points total 61 (average ppg of 1.61) Best month March 3 wins 1 defeat ppg 2.25

Matches

Home Away
WIN 16 (42%)

9----7
DRAW 13 (34%)

6----7
LOSS 9 (24%)

4----5

Goals for
Total 71---Home 33/Away 38 (best away total in LFC PL history)
Goals against
Total 43---Home 16/Away 27

Failed to score 8 games

Average 3.00 goals per game

Biggest win Newcastle 0 - 6 Liverpool
Biggest defeat West Brom 3 - 0 Liverpool

10 games with victory by 2 goals or more
6 games with defeats by 2 goals or more

Total---Home---Away
Under 2.5 gls ----34%

47%---21%
Over 2.5 gls

66%

53%---79%

Clean sheets 16 games (42%)

Longest undefeated runs - 8 games, twice 29/09/12 to 25/11/12 and 31/03/13 to 19/05/13
Longest run without win 5 games 18/08/12 to 23/09/12

Doubles
Victories - Norwich, Fulham, Wigan
Draws - Manchester City, Everton, Chelsea
Defeats - West Brom, Manchester Utd,

Shots on goal 10.03 (highest in league)
Shots wide 7.50 (highest in league)
Fouls 9.92 (14th in league)
Corners 7.50 (highest in league)
Possession 53.41 (7th in league, yes only 7th!)

12 different goal scorers

Suarez 23
Sturridge 10
Gerrard 10
Henderson 5
Coutinho 3
Agger 3
Enrique 2
Škrtel 2
Sterling 2
Downing 3
Johnson 1
Borini 1

gafferino · 20-05-2013 11:22am

whatawaster wrote: »

If we get 4th next season the players can celebrate any way they want. It's the single most important step we can make to getting back towards being a title challenging/winning team, more so than winning any domestic cup. As long as the celebration doesn't spill over into the following August . . .

Yeah i think this is Lloyds point in fairness. Its a brilliant achievement to get 4th. Everyone one of us would be over the moon and so would the team, management etc. But I would prefer to see a lower key celebration...as in yes job done now lets kick on. Fergie/Roy Keane mentality - dont settle.

Knex* · 20-05-2013 11:22am

gafferino wrote: »

I agree with you on the Arsenal point. I was surprised to see them celebrating so much and older teams definitely wouldnt have done so.
However I think there are 2 reasons for it.
1: It has been years since Arsenal challenged at the top. 04/05 was the last time they finished 2nd and 07/08 was the last time they were in contention (3rd with 83 points). Obvisouly this is due to Chelsea and City being so strong now along with Man U. Arsenal expectations are now lower (never mind having not one silverware in donkeys).
2: The run in they had was unbelievable. I think someone posted it earlier 16G 14 wins or something like that. So it was a mountain they had to climb and they did it in fairness. A lot of relief there for sure but yeah I was surprised at the reaction too.

Lloyd im not looking to start an argument or massive Monday debate or anything but Im just interested to see what positives you think (if any) you see under Rodgers and this seasons team?

And it was all going so well...

whatawaster · 20-05-2013 11:23am

Do we really think we didn't celebrate wildly after beating Charlton in May 2001 to qualify for the Champions League?

whatawaster · 20-05-2013 11:27am

mike65 wrote: »

Possession 53.41 (7th in league, yes only 7th!)

57% according to the official site.

But BR might be massaging those stats (And Joe Allen's)

Knex* · 20-05-2013 11:27am

The notion of not celebrating qualifying for the CL on the final day of the season, especially after the run Arsenal had, I don't understand.

There was a team that outperformed the entire league for the last 10 games and just scraped in by a point. They have every right to be delighted.

Fair enough if they were chasing 1st and slipped down to 4th, you wouldn't expect them to celebrate, but that quite obviously wasn't the scenario. Doesn't mean that they don't have the ambition to challenge next season.

Its a bit like saying that Hull shouldn't have celebrated direct promotion to the PL because they didn't win the Championship. Its all about perspective.

missingtime · 20-05-2013 11:28am

gafferino wrote: »

Yeah i think this is Lloyds point in fairness. Its a brilliant achievement to get 4th. Everyone one of us would be over the moon and so would the team, management etc. But I would prefer to see a lower key celebration...as in yes job done now lets kick on. Fergie/Roy Keane mentality - dont settle.

I think having a few old heads around to calm everyone down will be required if we do indeed get CL next year.

A case of, look we haven't won anything yet, we need to make sure that this is a perquisite.

Morzadec · 20-05-2013 11:36am

Knex. wrote: »

I could manage United and they'd still come top 4. Their squad is just that good. The idea that they won't be there or there abouts next season is absurd tbh.

Neville alluded to it yesterday, but Arsenal could really start to kick on now. They've recovered from the financial layout for their stadium and could really start to put the funds into their squad again.

Be very worrying if they did.

3rd is the lowest they've fallen in the last 20 years or so.

I think people are overestimating the Fergie factor, or perhaps misjudging it.

Ferguson's main strength was arguably his squad building - that squad is still there.

If Moyes is as bad as many are saying then it will not be until 3 or 4 years from now that this truly manifests (in terms of possibly dropping towards 4th or lower).

For me United are the most known quantity of the 3.

I would have more questions about City who have finished this season with the form of a team not good enough to get into the top 4, and who have a new (still unknown) manager coming in and very unpredictable owners.

Also, while I tip Chelsea to really push on next season, they only actually mathematically qualified for the CL on the last day of the season, and came 6th the year before, so you would have to see them as a more likely drop out than United.

It would be a remarkable turnaround, a fail of epic proportions for Moyes not to get top 4 next season, a 15-20 point drop. I don't see it.

Dont be at yourself · 20-05-2013 11:39am

Knex. wrote: »

I could manage United and they'd still come top 4. Their squad is just that good. The idea that they won't be there or there abouts next season is absurd tbh.

People were no doubt saying the same when Clough replaced Revie at Leeds, when Santini replaced Roux, or when Sounes replaced Kenny. It's a delicate time for United, and there's no guarantee that it will work out.

amiable · 20-05-2013 11:40am

hefferboi wrote: »

Very nice!

http://www.elverys.ie/Product/Liverpool-1982-Home-Jersey-Red/220445/0000000407

I had one of these when I was a kid
Happy memories

gafferino · 20-05-2013 11:42am

Knex. wrote: »

And it was all going so well...

Ah no not at all. Im just interested to see if the people who dont like our current regime see any positives. We've had the other argument in detail numerous times and while i havent always agreed with their points they raise interesting questions at times so just interested to hear a different slant (if any).

whatawaster · 20-05-2013 11:42am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-22596223

Sterling assault charge dropped.

meriwether · 20-05-2013 11:43am

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

My point is the following really:

- Arsenal shouldn't be celebrating 4th place like they did yesterday. Would the 2004 squad have celebrated 4th like that?
- Spurs should have committed fully to the EL when they were at the Quarter Final Stage (or the FA Cup semi final last year). They've had a good team the past couple of years but sacrificed the opportunity of getting something tangible to define the period at the altar of fourth place;

I'd like to think that if we did scrape fourth next season we wouldn't be hugging and kissing after the final whistle or celebraring in the dressing rooms like we won the league. But that's probably unrealistic.

If you come fourth next season, you'll sh1t yourself with happiness.

gafferino · 20-05-2013 11:44am

whatawaster wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-22596223

Sterling assault charge dropped.

No surprise there.

Morzadec · 20-05-2013 11:46am

mike65 wrote: »

Matches
Home Away
WIN 16 (42%)
9----7
DRAW 13 (34%)
6----7
LOSS 9 (24%)
4----5

Once again too many draws - particularly at home. We can really improve here, and add the 10 or 12 points or so we're talking about. 50% win rate at home is not good enough, despite many of them being big wins.

Despite scoring so many goals over the season as a whole, attacking inefficiency was primarily to blame for the majority of these dropped points.

The attack was poor for close to a third of the Premier League matches this season imo and we still occasionally look devoid of ideas and cutting edge.

We still need at least one signing in the attacking 3 midfielders (behind the main striker). I'd be happy with just the one if he had the versatility to play centrally as an attacking midfield playmaker, or out wide as a modern day wide forward.

meriwether · 20-05-2013 11:47am

Morzadec wrote: »

Absolutely, but it's the first vital step.

It's why finishing top 4 is considered bigger than winning the FA Cup now - essentially it's the step needed to get amongst the big boys again.

We all want to be eventually challenging for the league and Champions League again, not the domestic cups and Europa League. Many are laughing at Arsenal for celebrating 4th and not having won a cup in however amount of years it is. But they still have those big European nights.

It make seem like a contradiction - many would say aspiring to finish 4th is a lack of ambition.

I would say otherwise - it's the realistic first step towards the big ambition of being amongst Europe's elite once more

EDIT: Just re-read your post and think I misinterpreted it somewhat. First step is qualification - I agree that with just a challenge we still haven't achieved much of note.

No CL makes it harder to attract top players, and retain top players.

Having top players make success more likely.

Ergo, top four = greater likelihood of sucess in league and cups.

Its impossible for a team to spring 4-5 positions in one season these days to challenge for the title.

Hidalgo · 20-05-2013 12:03pm

Super-Rush wrote: »

I don't think the standard has gone up at all. In fact if anything the standard has gone down and we have slightly improved.

When you look at the results against United, Chelsea, City, Arsenal Everton and Spurs, we lost both United matches, dominated City for the best part of both matches and only for individual errors we would have won both games, we were robbed a perfectly ok goal to win the away game in the derby, drew the other, won one and lost one to Spurs, drew both against Chelsea and lost one, drew one to Arsenal where i feel we should have won the away game.

Give us the goal against Everton that was ruled out incorrectly, take away Skrtel's error against City and the Reading keepers performance against us and we are 6 points better off and only 6 points off 4th place. We were very unlucky not to win those three games. We were as consistent as any of those teams in the top 6 for the second half of the season but we never recovered from the bad start we had.

With City, United, Everton and Chelsea all having new managers next season, plus a decent transfer window, i think we will be in the hunt for a champions league spot up until March and after that who knows what could happen.

My only concern is that we won't start the new season like we finished this one and will really suffer without Suarez.

All ifs and buts, last season it was ifs and buts regarding the woodwork. Yes Liverpool got screwed out of a goal V Everton away, but I'm sure Everton are thinking the exact same thing from the Anfield leg

Spurs are probably looking at games like the home loss to Wigan as the type of game that cost them CL. Every team has ifs and buts.

gafferino · 20-05-2013 12:25pm

gafferino · 20-05-2013 12:26pm

Anyone at the game yesterday......what was the tone of Suarez/Pepes goodbyes?

:(:o:mad:

Chucky the tree · 20-05-2013 12:41pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

My point is the following really:

- Arsenal shouldn't be celebrating 4th place like they did yesterday. Would the 2004 squad have celebrated 4th like that?
- Spurs should have committed fully to the EL when they were at the Quarter Final Stage (or the FA Cup semi final last year). They've had a good team the past couple of years but sacrificed the opportunity of getting something tangible to define the period at the altar of fourth place;

I'd like to think that if we did scrape fourth next season we wouldn't be hugging and kissing after the final whistle or celebraring in the dressing rooms like we won the league. But that's probably unrealistic.

I think next year would be different. We haven't been in the CL for a good while now so making top 4 when our past league appearances have been 7th, 6th, 8th and 7th. A top 4 finish and regular football would be a good achievement for Enrique, Allen, Henderson, Downing, Sturridge, Coutinho. Obviously sturridge has won trophies with Chelsea but being a first regular(if he is) would probably make this a bit different. I definitely think Arsenal celebrating is a bit werid, if we achieved 4th in 09/10 and celebrated like that I'd be well pissed off. If 3-4 years time after having consistently finished top 4 and we are still celebrating like that then it would annoy me.

hefferboi · 20-05-2013 12:42pm

Turtyturd wrote: »

Is that a Warrior version of an old Adidas kit?

I couldn't tell you. We should have used it as next seasons kit.

Knex* · 20-05-2013 12:50pm

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I think next year would be different. We haven't been in the CL for a good while now so making top 4 when our past league appearances have been 7th, 6th, 8th and 7th. A top 4 finish and regular football would be a good achievement for Enrique, Allen, Henderson, Downing, Sturridge, Coutinho. Obviously sturridge has won trophies with Chelsea but being a first regular(if he is) would probably make this a bit different. I definitely think Arsenal celebrating is a bit werid, if we achieved 4th in 09/10 and celebrated like that I'd be well pissed off. If 3-4 years time after having consistently finished top 4 and we are still celebrating like that then it would annoy me.

So you're not giving any allowances for it being a position that they achieved on the final day of the season, especially after they required a remarkable run of form to get it?

A lot of people wrote off their chances a few months back.

Personally, I think that in this context they have every right to celebrate. Achieving something on the very last day of the season is always dramatic, no matter the club involved.

AdamD · 20-05-2013 12:52pm

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I think next year would be different. We haven't been in the CL for a good while now so making top 4 when our past league appearances have been 7th, 6th, 8th and 7th. A top 4 finish and regular football would be a good achievement for Enrique, Allen, Henderson, Downing, Sturridge, Coutinho. Obviously sturridge has won trophies with Chelsea but being a first regular(if he is) would probably make this a bit different. I definitely think Arsenal celebrating is a bit werid, if we achieved 4th in 09/10 and celebrated like that I'd be well pissed off. If 3-4 years time after having consistently finished top 4 and we are still celebrating like that then it would annoy me.

People aren't taking the context into account at all. For months everyone has been **** over Spurs and talking about a 'shift in power in North London'. AVB had his little 'downward spiral' dig, people were calling for their heads. After losing to Bayern and Spurs in a week everyone completely wrote them off, they then went on to win 8 and draw 2 of their last 10 league games to overtake their rivals by 1 point and get CL qualification. Why wouldn't they celebrate? Its all about context, if they were giving a decent title challenge then collapsed to 4th over the last 3 months like they did in 10/11 they wouldn't have been celebrating.

AC Milan also celebrated at the final whistle last night when they got their CL football, and that was partly due to late goals. Arsenal's was largely due to it being Spurs. Dunno why everyone's getting so upset over it.

Bobeagleburger · 20-05-2013 1:02pm

4th only gets you into the qualifiers which makes the celebrating even more cringe.

Hidalgo · 20-05-2013 1:06pm

mike65 wrote: »

Everyone loves stats so here is (drum roll) "The season in numbers"

Points total 61 (average ppg of 1.61) Best month March 3 wins 1 defeat ppg 2.25

Matches
Home Away
WIN 16 (42%)
9----7
DRAW 13 (34%)
6----7
LOSS 9 (24%)
4----5

The away record above isn't great but by no means awful. The home record needs to improve quite a bit to close the gap to 4th. From 9 wins, 6 draws and 4 losses, that needs to shift to something like 12 wins, 4 draws and 3 losses.

Knex* · 20-05-2013 1:07pm

We're here looking down at Arsenal, yet there they are in the CL for the 16th year straight, after a remarkable run of form which saw them knock their main rivals from the spot by one point.

I don't get it.

Envious of them? Certainly. Critical? We haven't a leg to stand on.

LuckyLloyd · 20-05-2013 1:08pm

rarnes1 wrote: »

4th only gets you into the qualifiers which makes the celebrating even more cringe.

Everton 2005...

Chucky the tree · 20-05-2013 1:11pm

Knex. wrote: »

So you're not giving any allowances for it being a position that they achieved on the final day of the season, especially after they required a remarkable run of form to get it?

A lot of people wrote off their chances a few months back.

Personally, I think that in this context they have every right to celebrate. Achieving something on the very last day of the season is always dramatic, no matter the club involved.

AdamD wrote: »

People aren't taking the context into account at all. For months everyone has been **** over Spurs and talking about a 'shift in power in North London'. AVB had his little 'downward spiral' dig, people were calling for their heads. After losing to Bayern and Spurs in a week everyone completely wrote them off, they then went on to win 8 and draw 2 of their last 10 league games to overtake their rivals by 1 point and get CL qualification. Why wouldn't they celebrate? Its all about context, if they were giving a decent title challenge then collapsed to 4th over the last 3 months like they did in 10/11 they wouldn't have been celebrating.

AC Milan also celebrated at the final whistle last night when they got their CL football, and that was partly due to late goals. Arsenal's was largely due to it being Spurs. Dunno why everyone's getting so upset over it.

I don't think great players who have a winning mentality would celebrate the way Arsenal players and staff did despite all the circumstances. As I said in 09/10 I can't imagine Gerrard, Masch, Torres etc celebrating in that fashion. I think they be happy, probably let out the emotion at the final whistle but I wouldn't expect big celebrations to continue into the dressing room and no doubt beyond.

Hidalgo · 20-05-2013 1:18pm

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I don't think great players who have a winning mentality would celebrate the way Arsenal players and staff did despite all the circumstances. As I said in 09/10 I can't imagine Gerrard, Masch, Torres etc celebrating in that fashion. I think they be happy, probably let out the emotion at the final whistle but I wouldn't expect big celebrations to continue into the dressing room and no doubt beyond.

A comparison to Liverpool potentially getting there in 09/10 isn't exactly the same as Arsenal yesterday. Liverpool went very close to winning the league the year previous, therefore sneaking into CL via 4th on the last day of the season would have been a disappointment.
If Arsenal had just came up short last season in trying to win the league, then yes this season would have been a big step back. As it is, that's 2 seasons in a row that Arsenal have been expected to miss out, yet they've got there. And after coming from 10 pts behind to their closest neighbours was a fine achievement

Knex* · 20-05-2013 1:19pm

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I don't think great players who have a winning mentality would celebrate the way Arsenal players and staff did despite all the circumstances. As I said in 09/10 I can't imagine Gerrard, Masch, Torres etc celebrating in that fashion. I think they be happy, probably let out the emotion at the final whistle but I wouldn't expect big celebrations to continue into the dressing room and no doubt beyond.

I think you're undervaluing the emotion of the day. Last grasp and just pipping your closest rivals.

Also, those same players you mentioned then failed to get CL the following years, although Masch was gone by September.

I think you're overplaying mentality while undervaluing context tbh.

I do get what you mean however, start of the season, when goals are laid out 4th should be the minimum for a club like Arsenal this season. As such, it shouldn't be celebrated as a major achievement.

I just think the manner in how it culminated makes it different.

Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2013

Comments