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Porn, Strip Clubs, etc. How do you feel about them?

  • 28-08-2009 11:08pm
    #1
    Acacia
    Registered Users Posts: 2,816 ✭✭✭


    I thought this would be an interesting topic, as it has been often brought up in tLL, and I'd like to hear guys' views.:)

    I've found the general consensus on boards and in 'real-life', that viewing porn, going to strip clubs, etc, is something of a secretive nature that most guys feel a compelling urge to do and that they have to hide from their partners in case it upsets them. Also, some people think the sex industry as a whole is disgusting, immoral, etc,etc.

    This is a view that annoys me for a few reasons- firstly, I disagree with the view that 'men will be men' and all of them are either into porn or there's something 'wrong' with them!
    Secondly, that women are portrayed as prudes who hate porn/ strip clubs, etc and feel threatened by them. Not all women are like this, many enjoy porn, strip clubs, etc.

    I would also disagree that the sex industry is immoral/ inherently wrong- I believe in choice for women and men to make a living in porn, etc if they choose. The only thing that concerns me is sexual expolitation (people being forced into it).

    Well, that's my view of it- what are yours? Would you look at porn alot, or go to strip clubs? Do you find it demeaning to men or women, either observer or performer? Do you think women in general are not as open about the whole thing as men? Discuss!


«1

Comments

  • #2
    Praetorian Saighdiuir
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,968 ✭✭✭✭Praetorian Saighdiuir


    Iv seen my fair share af the naughty stuff.........:eek: TBH, I pretty much would look at up to 30mins of filth over the course of 2 weeks. (not a shocking amount but just enough;))

    Iv been to a few strip clubs, (maybe 8-9) with groups of lads, stags, lads holidays...over the years.

    ...id never go alone cos I would deem that to be pervy, dnt know why!!


  • #3
    Will
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,183 ✭✭✭✭Will


    Went on a trip to liverpool with some mates about 4 years ago. The guys were mad into hittin a strip club/lapdancing club, I wasn't bothered. My idea of a strip club then was a place full of pervy old men gettin young women to dance on them. Felt that we young lads shouldn't be there cos there were clubs around and we could just have the craic there with other women.

    anywho i begrudgingly went a long. Paid £10 in and you got a free dance with it. One mate in particular was quite eager. I didn't like the place at all to be honest. I had a drink, politely declined the free dance from the dancers and said my very eager mate could have my free lap dance. Which he took with a huge grin on his face.

    It felt very seedy and sleazy to me, my other mates weren't bothered by it at all. I'm far from a prude, just felt out of place or something.

    Was in Las Vegas last year for 2 days, didn't even cross my mind about going to one. Just not my thing.


  • #4
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    I once was sent to Florida with work for three weeks, and whilst you couldn't get a drop of booze after 11pm (even in the hotels) there were more strip joints than you could shake a stick at!


    The guys I was working with, almost without exception, be they single, married, etc went to the local strip joint every payday at lunchtime, some of their wives worked with them, and it was a perfectly normal boys payday "treat" to them.

    I'd not be overly concerned with a partner going to one as part of a lads night out/stag do/whatever. I'd not be keen on going to one, but I would like to see some burlesque shows (different type of thing imo)


    As for porn, my only real exposure to it has been through work, and a couple of "incidents" (I work in IT), I've no real interest in watching porn personally.


  • #5
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,190 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    I've no interest in porn or strip clubs or the like. Obviously a very odd guy. :D

    To each his or her own is my motto, so long as there's no exploitation.


  • #6
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    I have been to a few but its not my bag and doesnt do it for me.

    If I was on a lads night and it was the venue then Ok but I wouldn't go out of my way to get there.

    I get amused at double standards by girls.Anne Summers parties, Chippendales and lots of articles in mainstream mags like Cosmo etc are about titilation, fantasy and eroticism.


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  • #7
    Acacia
    Registered Users Posts: 2,816 ✭✭✭Acacia


    CDfm wrote: »

    I get amused at double standards by girls.Anne Summers parties, Chippendales and lots of articles in mainstream mags like Cosmo etc are about titilation, fantasy and eroticism.

    What do you mean exactly? That women are okay with these things, but not Playboy and female strip clubs? That would be double-standards, alright.

    Personally, I would be okay with Ann Summers as much as I am with Zoo and Nuts magazine.

    Thanks everyone for the replies so far, btw.


  • #8
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Acacia wrote: »
    What do you mean exactly? That women are okay with these things, but not Playboy and female strip clubs? That would be double-standards, alright.

    Whatever floats your boat.

    I think an Ann Summers party is about boozing and smut not to far from any boys night out.

    Women use porn and will go to strip clubs when they are there.

    The Chippendales came to Ireland in June and its about sex.


  • #9
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    CDfm wrote: »
    Whatever floats your boat.

    I think an Ann Summers party is about boozing and smut not to far from any boys night out.

    Women use porn and will go to strip clubs when they are there.

    The Chippendales came to Ireland in June and its about sex.

    Now I haven't quoted your previous post, but there is a vast difference between an erotic/titillating article in cosmo, and having some birds tits in your face in a strip club don't you think?

    AFAIK the Chippendales don't do private dances either.

    And yes whilst there is an element of sexual titillation in women going to the Chippendales, Ann Summers parties etc, it tends to be far less one on one than strip clubs frequented by men, who can get far more up close and personal with the employees in those clubs.


  • #10
    Otis Driftwood
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,925 ✭✭✭Otis Driftwood


    Strip bars are not my thang at all.Ive been to one on 2 occasions and that was more than enough.The second time I didnt even get a lapdance,I sat at the bar talking crap to the birds while my buddy disappeared for the guts of 2 hours.

    I have nothing against strip bars or strippers.Most of the women that work in them get handsomely paid and are better protected than alot of politicians so the arguement that they are exploitative towards women holds absolutely no water for me.

    I just find the idea of them a bit of a turn off.I mean,whats the point of having a woman take her clothes off,grind against your junk and rub her tits in your face without been able to touch her.Its like giving a cigarette to a smoker then hiding the matches.I just dont get it.

    As for porn,its something that I would look at regularly enough (moreso because Im single at the moment :pac:) I think its a harmless outlet that the vast majority of people take with a pinch of salt.The porn with the silicone breasted,bleached blonde and botoxed actresses is terrible crap and it bores me to tears.Any time I do view it,its always the amateur or home made stuff.
    The people in it are shown in their true light and are genuinely enjoying it.It makes for an altogether more arousing viewing experience.

    Porn,like most things,is grand in moderation.There will be people that have a skewed image of sex and what sex is about because of porn but they are in the minority(for now).

    If people arent into it thats their decision and I wouldnt try to sway them either way.Ive had partners that have enjoyed watching it and others that hated it,its different strokes for different folks!


  • #11
    Praetorian Saighdiuir
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,968 ✭✭✭✭Praetorian Saighdiuir


    The porn with the silicone breasted,bleached blonde and botoxed actresses is terrible crap and it bores me to tears.Any time I do view it,its always the amateur or home made stuff.
    The people in it are shown in their true light and are genuinely enjoying it.It makes for an altogether more arousing viewing experience.





    +1 good buddy!!


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  • #12
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    nouggatti wrote: »
    Now I haven't quoted your previous post, but there is a vast difference between an erotic/titillating article in cosmo, and having some birds tits in your face in a strip club don't you think?

    AFAIK the Chippendales don't do private dances either.

    And yes whilst there is an element of sexual titillation in women going to the Chippendales, Ann Summers parties etc, it tends to be far less one on one than strip clubs frequented by men, who can get far more up close and personal with the employees in those clubs.

    Some people think porn is only a guy thing. Interestingly enough when Canada changed its porn laws its first prosecution was a Lesbian S & M magazine.So women do use porn and its not a male only thing and the type of porn isnt always "erotic" but goes further.

    Avedon Carol feminist writer, sometime stripper and founder of Feminists against Censorship questions the feminist position and coalition with the political right and methodoloigy of studies linking porn to violence etc and the writtings of Dworkin et al

    http://www.fiawol.demon.co.uk/FAC/harm.htm

    http://www.fiawol.demon.co.uk/FAC/index.htm

    The history of the Chippendales is linked to organised crime and several murders and certainly in the US they have been linked to male prostitution.

    Certainly in Las Vegas they offer private dances and more. Not having been to a Chippendale show ever I wouldnt know how up close and personal these are.

    From the Chippendale Website
    The Chippendales dance and sing their way into the hearts of birthday girls, bachelorettes, and girlfriends who just want to have fun.

    Throughout the show the Chippendales dance through the audience, providing plenty of hands-on interaction for those wanting a closer look at their favorite man.


  • #13
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 14,344 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I like porn. It's good entertainment and useful for.. you know. Also can make for an exciting ould time if you're with your girlfriend. :D


    I've never been to a strip club, and I don't really have any intention to go to one. Don't see the appeal, really. I'd go if it were part of a stag or something along those lines, but I wouldn't have enough interest/curiousity to bother going out of my way to visit one. I'd imagine they cost a fortune, too.


  • #14
    tribulus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,635 ✭✭✭tribulus


    Never been to a strip club and genuinely have no interest in going to one. It just seems like a big...tease, I guess. I doubt my girlfriend would be happy if I went to one (well if I got a lapdance anyway) and I wouldn't really blame her either.

    Porn, yes, lol.


  • #15
    Red Sleeping Beauty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,443 ✭✭✭Red Sleeping Beauty


    Thread of the day :D

    Never been to a strip club. There's one in Dublin just off of Dame St that has a big nasty neon pink sign and usually has people advertising it on the street. I doubt they're doing much business.


  • #16
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Alan Rouge wrote: »
    Thread of the day :D

    Never been to a strip club. There's one in Dublin just off of Dame St that has a big nasty neon pink sign and usually has people advertising it on the street. I doubt they're doing much business.

    Is there something stopping you going-even the once?Like,I ve never seen the attraction of a private lapdance myself but a friend of mine was into going to Lapellos for a while.

    Its not the money either I dont go to these places when they are free either.


  • #17
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    tribulus wrote: »
    I doubt my girlfriend would be happy if I went to one (well if I got a lapdance anyway) and I wouldn't really blame her either.


    It wouldn't bother me if my g/f went to see a male stripper.

    Would you be happy if your girlfriend went to see the Chippendales?


  • #18
    TestTransmission
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,106 ✭✭✭✭TestTransmission


    I worked in a stripbclub ( as a barman ) for over a year and a half when i was in college
    Its weird how quickly you get used to all the titty and ass :pac:


  • #19
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    Was talked into going to one on holidays, it wasn't a principled thing that I didn't want to go, just thought it was a waste of money. Mate paid for a private dance for me and at the time I thought it was class (drink + dehydration:P) but within 20 minutes I realised I'd have to pay for a dance for him the following night so I was fairly pissed about dropping that much cash. :P

    I have no objection to them, just think they're a waste of money personally.


    On porn, meh, I don't think I'm in a position to criticise anyone for watching it. :pac:


  • #20
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Porn, strip clubs, etc. are emasculating.
    Secondly, that women are portrayed as prudes who hate porn/ strip clubs, etc and feel threatened by them. Not all women are like this, many enjoy porn, strip clubs, etc.

    We know that, and surely that is secondary to the question you posed initially.
    Do you think women in general are not as open about the whole thing as men?

    More open.


  • #21
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Now I haven't quoted your previous post, but there is a vast difference between an erotic/titillating article in cosmo, and having some birds tits in your face in a strip club don't you think?

    In principle no, there isn't much difference.


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  • #22
    Fajitas!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,624 ✭✭✭✭Fajitas!


    Strip/lapdance clubs are strange indeed. They're possibly the most unarousing places ever - I don't understand how anyone could 'get off' in there tbh. A few of my friends would head to a club every now and then (One of them quite often) though. Different...er.. strokes for different folk.

    There's not much that I can add to what's been said, but they're just a seedy waste of money.

    I do, however, have a funny story about visiting one in Soho a few years ago. Let's just say we didn't realise how much the drinks were going to cost, nor how big the doormen were... If you haven't gone before, make sure of all prices before you start, the dance might only be 15 quid, but the dancer could well order a cocktail 'worth' 90 pounds...


  • #23
    Snowie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,048 ✭✭✭✭Snowie


    I've never been to one. Never really had the interest.
    Its a bit fake really. I can appreciate a woman dancing sexy, but having said that
    a number of girls use it as income to put them through collage, which I do respect...

    As for the blokes who go to them, a lot sounds like there missing something....


  • #24
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    anon991 wrote: »
    Porn, strip clubs, etc. are emasculating.

    I wouldn't go that far.

    anon991 wrote: »
    In principle no, there isn't much difference.

    I don't think women are honest about their porn use etc

    There is a big industry around erotic fiction targeted at women. The Story of O is famous and is for women http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Story_of_O

    So its fairly normal - there is not really a male equivalent to erotic fiction but it is rarely talked about.


  • #25
    El Guapo!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,438 ✭✭✭✭El Guapo!


    A few of my mates have been to loads of strip clubs but I was never in one until this year on holidays in Greece. Me and the GF went into one for the laugh and to see what all the fuss was about and tbh it didn't appeal to me at all. One girl would get up and do a pole-dance every 10mins or so and it'd last just one song. And most of the blokes in there were just chatting and not really paying attention to the girl dancing.
    It was only a fiver in per person but it wasnt even worth that. I'd never pay a for a private dance either....just seems like a waste of money.


  • #26
    Otis Driftwood
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,925 ✭✭✭Otis Driftwood


    CDfm wrote: »

    I don't think women are honest about their porn use etc

    Id tend to agree with you on that one.

    Porn is generally viewed as something that only men enjoy and as a result of this alot of women that enjoy it feel they have to say the think its seedy,degrading etc for fear of a backlash from their peers.

    Its a pity really because porn is something that can add a new dimension to a sexual relationship when both parties use it together.

    Of course some females are vehemently anti porn and thats 100% ok,it comes down to personal preference,its the ones that come out on the moral high horse claiming that women are being exploited without actually knowing anything about the industry that bugs me.

    Of course its the nature of the business that some women are exploited by it but the majority of porn stars in 2009 are well paid(at least 3 times more than their male counterparts),get regularly STI screenings and choose who they will work with and when.


  • #27
    tbh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,914 ✭✭✭✭tbh


    I've been to strip clubs but just found them fake and sleazy. I've no problem with porn at all, but I find that as I get older, a quote about porn is more and more prevalent in my mind:

    "The problem with porn is not that it shows too much, but that it shows so little".

    you know who said that? the POPE! The REAL pope, not that German dude. I still...eh...'use' porn tho :)


  • #28
    Snowie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,048 ✭✭✭✭Snowie


    as for porn.... I think you can watch it a bit to much etc..
    and a degree of self control is needed tho..

    But in all accounts if I was with a girl and she watch porn I'd think it would add a lot of fun to booth are live's.... and show a degree of let just stay there :D


  • #29
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Now that we are into specifics of attitudes. I wonder what the OPs and other womens attitudes are.

    Are women secretive about porn,strippers and erotic stuff when its used by women.

    Is Ann Summers sleary and part of the sex industry or innocent bachelorette bonding fun?


  • #30
    Motley Crue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,382 ✭✭✭Motley Crue


    Don't agree with them personally but would defend to the death the right of their exsistence for people to have the free will to visit them should they wish


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  • #31
    tribulus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,635 ✭✭✭tribulus


    CDfm wrote: »
    It wouldn't bother me if my g/f went to see a male stripper.

    Would you be happy if your girlfriend went to see the Chippendales?

    I wouldn't mind, nor would she mind me going to a stripclub itself (I should have clarified that earlier, sorry).

    I think it would be the private dance, having someone grinding right up against you etc. that would be a problem. I don't think I would be entirely happy with a female equivalent. It's not insecurity on our parts, just a boundary thing really.


  • #32
    Dr Galen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,373 ✭✭✭Dr Galen


    CDfm wrote: »
    Now that we are into specifics of attitudes. I wonder what the OPs and other womens attitudes are.

    Are women secretive about porn,strippers and erotic stuff when its used by women.

    Is Ann Summers sleary and part of the sex industry or innocent bachelorette bonding fun?

    Thats another thread tbh if you want specifics on how women view this sort of thing. I'd also suggest that The Ladies Lounge may be a better place. This is after all the Gentlemen's Club

    Thanks

    MM


  • #33
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    I paid 60 quid for a lap dance in Dublin city once, it was very very well worth it :) Went to a second stip club the same night, beer was sh!te but the women were so sexy :)


  • #34
    JC 2K3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,794 ✭✭✭JC 2K3


    nouggatti wrote: »
    Now I haven't quoted your previous post, but there is a vast difference between an erotic/titillating article in cosmo, and having some birds tits in your face in a strip club don't you think?
    The only difference is taste. And taste is subjective.


  • #35
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Mystik Monkey wrote: »
    Thats another thread tbh if you want specifics on how women view this sort of thing. I'd also suggest that The Ladies Lounge may be a better place. This is after all the Gentlemen's Club

    Thanks

    MM


    I think it is relevant.

    This is why I think why it is.

    Some definitions of pornography and erotica are vague.Is the image obscene or is it with reference to the audience.

    Take Jill Greenbergs Taking Candy from a Baby Collection which was controvercial and cause upset for its "paedophile" potential she defends as art.

    Some people find homosexuality obscene. So would define an image of a female nude viewed by a woman as art but the same image viewed by a man as porn.

    The First Canadian case in recent laws was a lesbian S&M publication where the court took the view that it was the image and not the context that defined the obscenity.

    This aside I would look at stuff like the Chippendales and Ann Summers etc as entertainment and some Cosmo stuff as erotica like on par with Playboys editorial content.

    So while the OP may be fine with porn -surely it is relevant what her definition is for men and her fellow women. I think womens magazines ,erotic literature and Ann Summers are part of sex industry but often ignored by women searching for a definition.

    I posted it to widen the definitions as I suspect men and women view things differently and fill their porn/erotica needs differently and they are catered for differently.


  • #36
    maherro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 111 ✭✭maherro


    I wouldnt be into going to strip clubs at all really. As a previous poster said its all fake. They arn't interested in you only your wallet.

    As for porn yeah id watch it but with nothing approaching regularity


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  • #37
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    maherro wrote: »
    I wouldnt be into going to strip clubs at all really. As a previous poster said its all fake. They arn't interested in you only your wallet.

    As for porn yeah id watch it but with nothing approaching regularity

    Its got about as much credibility as pro-wrestling.

    Why I wonder is it such a feminist issue?


  • #38
    maherro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 111 ✭✭maherro


    I wonder is it such a feminist issue?

    Maybe its to do with the objectification of women? It depersonalises them, making them seem as nothing more then sex objects, not real people with real lives. Obviously though, (well I reckon anyway) this opinion would only apply to regular patrons of these establishments.

    Would people have the same view (depersonalise, sex objects) of porn? Is watching porn regularly the same as going regularly to a strip club?


  • #39
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    maherro wrote: »
    Maybe its to do with the objectification of women? It depersonalises them, making them seem as nothing more then sex objects, not real people with real lives. Obviously though, (well I reckon anyway) this opinion would only apply to regular patrons of these establishments.

    I can't understand this. Surely if you take this view all particiapants should be objectified?

    So you get a Chippendale show - the Chippendale is objectified right?
    Would people have the same view (depersonalise, sex objects) of porn? Is watching porn regularly the same as going regularly to a strip club?

    Does it affect women as a gender? What about where the object of the porn is say a young man in a granny seduces schoolboy type show?

    Now I dont watch porn and can't see the mainstream attraction but I also can't see the objectifying.Is it selective cherrypicking?


  • #40
    maherro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 111 ✭✭maherro


    So you get a Chippendale show - the Chippendale is objectified right?
    it affect women as a gender

    I never said it was applied equally or fairly :cool:. And tbh Im not too I understand the feminist view point


  • #41
    Khannie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,485 ✭✭✭✭Khannie


    Meant to reply to this earlier but have been a bit busy. Great thread idea.
    Acacia wrote: »
    Would you look at porn alot, or go to strip clubs?

    I'd look at porn, though not very often (less now than I used to, mostly because I get lots of sex these days :D). I only know one bloke who professes not to look at porn at all. I think it's more a means to an end for blokes though. It's not like sitting down to watch a football match or whatever.

    Strip clubs aren't my thing. I think they're about as arousing as wet dog smell.
    Acacia wrote: »
    Do you find it demeaning to men or women, either observer or performer?

    Sometimes for the performer. I've seen porn vids and thought that the participant had been demeaned a bit.
    Acacia wrote: »
    Do you think women in general are not as open about the whole thing as men? Discuss!

    Yes I do think that (that women, in general, are not as open as men about the whole thing). Blokes assume that other blokes look at porn in my experience. I wouldn't say / think the same thing about a woman (at least not without knowing her somewhat). I think you'll find that the percentage of women on boards.ie that use porn will be higher than the average (as there are more young, open minded women on boards than the population as a whole). My wife uses a site called rollercoaster and some of the prudish attitudes to porn displayed by some of the women over there are laughable in our opinions.


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  • #42
    Mrmoe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,213 ✭✭✭Mrmoe


    Nothing wrong with porn or strip clubs but as with most things people tend to abuse them at times. I would say it is seen as more acceptable for men to watch porn than for women. There definitely appears to be a stigma attached for women watching porn. As regards strip clubs I do not think this is an Irish phenomenon primarily due to them not being widespread here. Porn isonly a means to an end for most guys I would say and they wouldn't see it as demeaning to the particpants,


  • #43
    Fano
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7 ✭Fano


    I feel that Porn and Strip Clubs are ok.....after all these are peoples jobs....but there is a limit to which any person can withstand also...like there is no need for it to be over exploited...everyone knows these places and things exist and they know where to go to get to them...i think places like amsterdam foe example exploit the industry too much like we all no these things are there but they make it too obvious and over use it


  • #44
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    I would like to understand how the exploitation argument works.

    Just say I have someone who is entitled to the dole and housing benefit or can do a job at the minimum wage or higher then they have alternative options to fund their lives other than their careers of choice in the sex industry.

    If you think of it not its only a small minority that go to work in the sex industry.So presumably they are in it for the money as an alternative to normal work and that it is their chosen alternative. How then is that exploitatative?

    Now Im not a supporter of it but I am a supporter of decriminalising prostitution as a way as I understand it gets rid of the criminal element and may improve healthcare.


  • #45
    Red Sleeping Beauty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,443 ✭✭✭Red Sleeping Beauty


    CDfm wrote: »
    Is there something stopping you going-even the once?Like,I ve never seen the attraction of a private lapdance myself but a friend of mine was into going to Lapellos for a while.

    Its not the money either I dont go to these places when they are free either.

    I've never been cause I never went looking for it and any time I've seen them they didn't appeal to me. Can't imagine I'd like them. Surely you're better off taking your 50 quid and trying to chat someone up with a few drinks for a one night stand or something ?

    CDfm wrote: »
    I would like to understand how the exploitation argument works.


    Probably similar to the exploitation of workers as per Marx's theories, only it's women selling their most basic asset for money - their body- rather than just their labour.


  • #46
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Alan Rouge wrote: »
    Probably similar to the exploitation of workers as per Marx's theories, only it's women selling their most basic asset for money - their body- rather than just their labour.

    In what way are they exploited as it operates on the cash nexus. A product or service in exchange for money.

    So how are they exploited as they have a viable alternative course of action which they can take up. In that way there is no force involved or shortchanging or discrimination.

    In other words its a service/commodity with an exchange value in the market place.The other three aspects are value, utility and price.

    I have read that the regulation of the Dutch Market has caused the price to fall.

    So really how exploitative is it?


  • #47
    Red Sleeping Beauty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,443 ✭✭✭Red Sleeping Beauty


    I don't know.. I'm not making a case for exploitation.


    This article might be of relevance :
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/aug/17/tanya-gold-stripping


  • #48
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Alan Rouge wrote: »
    I don't know.. I'm not making a case for exploitation.


    This article might be of relevance :
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/aug/17/tanya-gold-stripping

    A Weird World View in the Article - Women watch for fun and men for darker reasons ffs:confused:


  • #49
    Dr Galen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,373 ✭✭✭Dr Galen


    CDfm wrote: »
    A Weird World View in the Article - Women watch for fun and men for darker reasons ffs:confused:

    i think your right here tbh. I think the author of that article is reading a bit much into her experiences. I'm sure if she went around and spoke to every woman at the Chippendales show she'd also find lonely or predatory women, same as in a lap dancing club.

    Personally I've not a bother with either porn or strippers. I suppose my attitude to strippers is that it's a bit of a laugh, don't take it too seriously. At the end of the day, I like boobs......a lot. So if I can have a beer, give someone a few quid and she'll get them out, thats all it is.

    Porn while useful, is nothing more than a fantasy, a picture on a screen. I've heard of people getting a bit wrapped up in it, but i suppose like pretty much anything, that can happen. For the vast majority of people, it's a dip in, crack one out, and turn it off kinda thing.

    Exploitation can happen in all walks of life. Certainly, things like porn or lapdancing are open to abuse and exploitative practices, but I don't think its right to say that all porn/;apdancing is so. I've known a few girls who danced, they did it for the money. They made good wages and were happy enough doing it. They needed cash, they got it, they liked it, they did it a bit more and then they stopped. In that case, whose getting exploited? I'd suggest its the blokes paying for it.......

    The darker side of the industry is when you hear about girls getting roped into things, trafficing of girls is still out there, even with the EU etc clamping down. Stories of passports and ID being taken from girls to prevent them leaving are also around, though less common than before. Porn can also lead to this kind of thing, within that industry, huge strides have been made to cut this sort of thing out but it appears there is a still a ways to go. Again, I don't think you could say that all porn actors are being exploited, some genuinely enjoy/like/want to do what they are doing.


  • #50
    Gillo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,566 ✭✭✭Gillo


    Personally, I don't really like them, I've been a few times (not for a very long time now) and to be honest wasn't impressed with the overall experience. You go in generally drunk and pay some woman to stick her tits in your face and leave wanting a hell of a lot more. As a friend of mine put it whats the point in paying for something like that when I can get a hell of a lot more for free in most nightclubs.
    I also found the falseness of most the the dancers pretty annoying (in fairness they are there to get your money so I'm not begrudging them)


  • #51
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Woohoo - Mystik Monkey to post a list of ethical venues.:cool:


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