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Fast growing willow for firewood

  • 19-10-2006 9:53pm
    #1
    dordali
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40 ✭


    Have an acre of land behind a site we're about to start building on. Thinking of planting fast growing willow or some other fast growing tree for firewood, for use in the house. We can order it from UK e.g http://www.bowhayesfarm.co.uk.
    Anyone know of availability in Ireland. Or not sure if it is a good idea, advice?


«1

Comments

  • #2
    kerrymaninld
    Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭kerrymaninld


    Sounds like a good idea. I'm assuming you are just talking about making logs out of it and burning these (versus taking thinnings and making wood chip?). If you are thinking wood chip, it won't be cost effective as harvesting costs will be higher for such a small area.

    Bear in mind it won't be very efficient if its not dried out properly.

    I would suggest contacting Teagasc and COFORD offices to get the best advice.

    Good luck.


  • #3
    dordali
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40 ✭dordali


    Assumed right. Thinking of just making logs out of it. Thanks for advice!


  • #4
    Oldtree
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭Oldtree


    Willow and poplar have a high water content. while they grow quickly (depending on the site) it may be better to grow ash. The fuel return on an acre will be small over time. It may have more ecological value to plant a mixed woodland, (ash, hawthorn, sorbus, hazel, etc) and let it be. A windy path through this area will give you countless hours of enjoyment over the years, as well as providing a much needed habitat.


  • #5
    Oldtree
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭Oldtree


    Using locally sourced seed for your plants if possible, or irish stock rather than importing.
    If you want willow why not take cuttings from local willow plants, they root v easily. Willow is a very important source of early nectar


  • #6
    Fanny Cradock
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,245 ✭✭✭✭Fanny Cradock


    You will need to get somebody in the know to do a site suitability test. There is no point in planting willow on a site that is not appropriate for willow growth - for example: what is the soil type (drainage, acidity, nutrient content, etc.) and is it suitable for willow growth? Don't worry though, there is pleanty of advice out there! As already mentioned you should try Teagasc and maybe COFORD. Other useful contacts might be Crann, Coillte and the Society of Irish Foresters.


    Assuming all is well, you could buy your plants closer to home:

    http://www.coilltenurseries.ie/


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  • #7
    padraiggriffin
    Registered Users Posts: 35 ✭padraiggriffin


    Oldtree wrote: »
    Willow and poplar have a high water content. while they grow quickly (depending on the site) it may be better to grow ash. The fuel return on an acre will be small over time. It may have more ecological value to plant a mixed woodland, (ash, hawthorn, sorbus, hazel, etc) and let it be. A windy path through this area will give you countless hours of enjoyment over the years, as well as providing a much needed habitat.



    ash is a great wood for burning but wouldnt be a great option for planting unless you are ok with waiting 30 years for decent thickness.

    go ahead with the willow, its quick growing and a relatively hard wood.
    willow will grow anywhere at all, you could buy them in any garden home at up to 8 years old or just as seeds but if you go out into the contry and throw a stone it will likely hit a willow, if you know what they look like you could get find of plant sized ones to dig up.
    could also try alder and birch trees.
    idealy once cut should store logs in a shed for 2 years to dry, using a high effecency stove for burning.

    cant beat the turf though, talk to luke ming


  • #8
    Oldtree
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭Oldtree


    padraiggriffin wrote: »
    ash is a great wood for burning but wouldnt be a great option for planting unless you are ok with waiting 30 years for decent thickness.

    go ahead with the willow, its quick growing and a relatively hard wood.
    willow will grow anywhere at all, you could buy them in any garden home at up to 8 years old or just as seeds but if you go out into the contry and throw a stone it will likely hit a willow, if you know what they look like you could get find of plant sized ones to dig up.
    could also try alder and birch trees.
    idealy once cut should store logs in a shed for 2 years to dry, using a high effecency stove for burning.

    cant beat the turf though, talk to luke ming

    bit slow with the advice there PG you are only 6 years too late :p


  • #9
    freddyuk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,111 ✭✭✭freddyuk


    I have planted willow and it grows well down here but it is too nice to then cut down and burn! Taking cuttings and just sticking them in the damp ground will produce new plants. I have a lot of Alder which grows really fast and would probably have good woodburner sized logs within 10 years but worth trimming each year to produce good centre stems which I hope would grow quicker and easier to cut up. Coppicing Alder is the way I think as it sprouts really quickly from established roots. Not sure of the energy value against other woods so worth researching before you commit.
    Another fast grower is Sycamore which is like a weed and will produce good logs but slower than Alder. Seems to self seed all over the place so can be pulled up and replanted if done in first year. By coppicing the large mature roots will produce fast new growth once cut. As said above you need to season for a year before use.
    An acre may be a bit tight to get sufficient wood but anything is good renewable fuel source.


  • #10
    padraiggriffin
    Registered Users Posts: 35 ✭padraiggriffin


    Oldtree wrote: »
    bit slow with the advice there PG you are only 6 years too late :p

    ya, just saw the date after posting :eek:
    better late than never though, just put in a back boiler stove myself so i was searching for stuff.
    i must plant a few acres to see what suits best in terms of quantity of wood/years


  • #11
    WhatNowForUs?
    Closed Accounts Posts: 687 ✭✭✭WhatNowForUs?


    Oldtree wrote: »
    padraiggriffin wrote: »
    ash is a great wood for burning but wouldnt be a great option for planting unless you are ok with waiting 30 years for decent thickness.

    go ahead with the willow, its quick growing and a relatively hard wood.
    willow will grow anywhere at all, you could buy them in any garden home at up to 8 years old or just as seeds but if you go out into the contry and throw a stone it will likely hit a willow, if you know what they look like you could get find of plant sized ones to dig up.
    could also try alder and birch trees.
    idealy once cut should store logs in a shed for 2 years to dry, using a high effecency stove for burning.

    cant beat the turf though, talk to luke ming

    bit slow with the advice there PG you are only 6 years too late :p
    Well only 24 years till harvesting.


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  • #12
    Oldtree
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭Oldtree


    plan on a 10 year or so rotation myself ;)


  • #13
    padraiggriffin
    Registered Users Posts: 35 ✭padraiggriffin


    Oldtree wrote: »
    plan on a 10 year or so rotation myself ;)

    see, i revived this thread from the dead:D

    i have a good few ash which my grandfather planted back in the 40s - should be ready for cutting anytime now.

    alders give a lots of wood quick but its not great for fuel, birch is better but takes slightly londer to grow, lot quicker than ash though.
    i have a decent pile of 2 or 3 year dried timber but will need a lot more to sustain for years, lets nope we dont get any other -10 degree winters, what a summer we have now though.

    are you growing ash oldtree??


  • #14
    Jim Martin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 806 ✭✭✭Jim Martin


    Wonder how long it takes to dry out willow chippings, it grows very fast & can be coppiced every 2 or 3 yrs? If it can be dried out in 2 yrs, this would make it a very viable crop for harvesting as fuel.


  • #15
    Oldtree
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭Oldtree


    I've just started recently really. Poplar ((serious grower) from cuttings but took a few years to bulk up) in the ground 2011/12 along with some ash.

    3 types of willow cuttings and more poplar cuttings ready for next winter. Also my own ash seedlings located and ready to go next winter.

    Ongoing supply of mature ash and sycamore (now coppiced) and lapsed hazel.

    Ash is the top totty wood as far as I am concerned.


  • #16
    padraiggriffin
    Registered Users Posts: 35 ✭padraiggriffin


    ongoing supply ?? do you have much land dedicated to mature ash trees, must need a few hectares with different generations of ash in order to keep up with constant demand ???

    do you find the sycamore any good ??


  • #17
    Oldtree
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭Oldtree


    managing a small family woodland and converting fields to wood production for our own use, thats the plan anyway. I only remove syacamore from woodland as trying to maintain native species and hope by doing so that will cut down on seed production. Ad hoc removal of ash and thinning.

    Sycamore second to ash but a fine wood to burn, sparkles a bit. I dont poison roots so they regrow rapidly, waiting to see how they do over a 10 year period too.


  • #18
    Oldtree
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭Oldtree


    have a look here for further stuff trees and forestry:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1529


  • #19
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Doing SRC willow myself, this is the first year of growing, I picked stems from local trees and just stuck them into the ground.
    So far growth has been good and strong, even the "mis identified" plants are growing well! :confused: have no idea what they are.
    My plan is to do a five year rotation of wood chips to supplement the turf.


  • #20
    padraiggriffin
    Registered Users Posts: 35 ✭padraiggriffin


    gota have da turf


  • #21
    Oldtree
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭Oldtree


    Deleted User wrote: »
    So far growth has been good and strong, even the "mis identified" plants are growing well! :confused: have no idea what they are.

    post a few close up photos and I'll give a go at ID for you.


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  • #22
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Oldtree wrote: »
    post a few close up photos and I'll give a go at ID for you.

    Here ya go, hopefully they're good enough to make an identification, cheers.


    215130.jpg

    215131.jpg

    I was cutting stems and just continued along the section of hedge without realizing that it wasn't willow! :o


  • #23
    Oldtree
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭Oldtree


    They do look like willow, look healthy too.


  • #24
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Oldtree wrote: »
    They do look like willow, look healthy too.
    Thanks, I just assumed that willow only had long thin leaves, about half of the crop is this variety.


  • #25
    Oldtree
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭Oldtree


    loads of hybrids all over the place, with quite a range of leaf shape from long and thin to short and fat. Very difficult to id the name of one specifically.

    http://www.google.ie/search?hl=en&q=willow+leaf&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&biw=1145&bih=752&wrapid=tlif134372677021410&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=uqQXUK6mJ8-4hAeOpYCACg


  • #26
    crackcrack30
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,160 ✭✭✭crackcrack30


    I plan on growing some willow on some waste/unused areas around a plantation... i would like to leave enough room to maybe feed willow with slurry but the downside to this is that i would loose ground to a roadway???
    just thinking if i planted the willow around the complete edge of the field in a row about 5ft out from the boundary i could drive the slurry tank centred over the stubbs following cutting every few years....

    How important is feed..........or would too much kill it off?:eek:


  • #27
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Here's a good source of info on growing willow (warning large PDF)


  • #28
    El Kabong!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 296 ✭✭El Kabong!


    I obtained 500 hybrid willow setts from Bow Hayes earlier this year and planted them on .25 acre in late March.

    All of them took. Most are not 4-5 foot high and abotu 10% are 7 foot high.

    I intend to cut them down in the winter and get 3x 2-3 foot setts from them, and plant another .75 acres as a result.

    Just wondering if I should cut them to the ground or leave a foot?


  • #29
    crackcrack30
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,160 ✭✭✭crackcrack30


    I think a foot is too much, check out clips of them being harvested......

    How much for the 500?


  • #30
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    crackcrack30 wrote: »
    2-4 inches
    I think a foot is too much, check out clips of them being harvested......

    How much for the 500?

    That's what I plan to do next year as well, should bring on a good number of stalks for chipping in four years time.

    Don't forget to spray weedkiller over the area before the willow starts to regrow. I plan to replace much of my willow crop as I picked slow growing hybrids by mistake! :o:( :mad:

    I have looked around the area and have tagged a few good source trees for willow stems. ;)


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  • #31
    El Kabong!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 296 ✭✭El Kabong!


    Hi,

    That willow guide that was linked to was very handy. It says a few inches.

    I spaced mine at 90cm in each direction. I will be harvesting manually.

    For the willow, I paid EUR800 including delivery, but that included 500 squares of plastic to put around the base.

    I also ordered 500 canes and 500 transparent spiral guards via an Irish supplier. They had a good price and sourced the spirals for me. I ordered black ones by mistake so had to order again, but I can use the black ones for when I start planting native trees.

    Next spring my only expense will be 1500 canes and spirals, although perhaps I should attempt it without them? Any experience of that? I was worried about rabbits etc getting at the shoots. I heard it is like sweets to them :) Any advice on this as I would like to avoid the expense. Athough the spirals are useful for protecting the willow when I am clearing the area.

    I will not be using any weed killers or chemicals on the land, it is part of a larger 4.5 acre smallholding I am running. I have purchased an Ariens String Trimmer to keep growth down before the grass is crowded out.


  • #32
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I just stuck the willow shoots straight into the ground, about 6" in with about 4" sticking up,

    I also stuck a lot of full length (3-4 foot long) shoots in as well but it didn't really make much difference to the growing, it just meant that I used more for the same area. Next time I'll just cut the shoots into one foot lengths and stick it in!

    I robbed all my willow stock from local trees at zero cost.

    There don't appear to be many rabbits around here, so I can't comment on rabbit problems.


  • #33
    vicwatson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,404 ✭✭✭✭vicwatson


    dordali wrote: »
    Have an acre of land behind a site we're about to start building on. Thinking of planting fast growing willow or some other fast growing tree for firewood, for use in the house. We can order it from UK e.g http://www.bowhayesfarm.co.uk.
    Anyone know of availability in Ireland. Or not sure if it is a good idea, advice?


    Link is broken?


  • #34
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    vicwatson wrote: »
    Link is broken?

    Post is six years old!


  • #35
    El Kabong!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 296 ✭✭El Kabong!


    http://www.bowhayestrees.co.uk/


  • #36
    frankmul
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 378 ✭✭frankmul


    I'm thinking of growing a small section of willow. Maybe 5m x 50m, 200 plants. I have got the ground cover i think. Would someone be able to tell me what variety of willow I should use and where I might get it. I'm in Roscommon.


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  • #37
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    frankmul wrote: »
    I'm thinking of growing a small section of willow. Maybe 5m x 50m, 200 plants. I have got the ground cover i think. Would someone be able to tell me what variety of willow I should use and where I might get it. I'm in Roscommon.
    Look around in the local hedgerows, find some good fast growing willow, the type with the long thin leaves appear to be the best, and make a note of the location.

    Then wait until early January before cutting enough stems approx 10mm in diameter to cover the area, 200 30cm lengths should do you.


  • #38
    frankmul
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 378 ✭✭frankmul


    dolanbaker wrote: »
    frankmul wrote: »
    I'm thinking of growing a small section of willow. Maybe 5m x 50m, 200 plants. I have got the ground cover i think. Would someone be able to tell me what variety of willow I should use and where I might get it. I'm in Roscommon.
    Look around in the local hedgerows, find some good fast growing willow, the type with the long thin leaves appear to be the best, and make a note of the location.

    Then wait until early January before cutting enough stems approx 10mm in diameter to cover the area, 200 30cm lengths should do you.

    thanks dolanbaker

    type does not really matter then. from what i remember, there is some weeping willow near by. just take cuttings from that and I'll be ok?.
    Frank


  • #39
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    frankmul wrote: »
    thanks dolanbaker

    type does not really matter then. from what i remember, there is some weeping willow near by. just take cuttings from that and I'll be ok?.
    Frank
    Not a weeping willow, they're the slowest growing ones, look for the ones that "awake". ;)


  • #40
    frankmul
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 378 ✭✭frankmul


    There is a willow around that appears to be one that's awake, about 5ft growth this year. Bay willow I think. Do I need rabbit protection. Not a lot of rabbits around but plenty of hares. Will they destroy the plants?.


  • #41
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    frankmul wrote: »
    There is a willow around that appears to be one that's awake, about 5ft growth this year. Bay willow I think. Do I need rabbit protection. Not a lot of rabbits around but plenty of hares. Will they destroy the plants?.
    Apparently, rabbits love the stuff, chances are hares do as well so better to play safe.


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  • #42
    frankmul
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 378 ✭✭frankmul


    El Kabong! wrote: »

    I also ordered 500 canes and 500 transparent spiral guards via an Irish supplier. They had a good price and sourced the spirals for me. I ordered black ones by mistake so had to order again, but I can use the black ones for when I start planting native trees.

    El Kabong

    Can you pm me, where you got the spiral guards

    Thanks
    Frank


  • #43
    El Kabong!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 296 ✭✭El Kabong!


    No problem sharing it with everyone... I managed to get www.thegardenshop.ie to source in the transparent ones for me.

    They got in a load of them and still seem to have loads of stock left:

    http://www.thegardenshop.ie/tree-guards.html

    I also ordered bamboo canes from them.

    http://www.thegardenshop.ie/bamboo-canes.html


    So 1 cane and 1 spiral, with the willow 1 foot into the ground (if possible).


  • #44
    10-10-20
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,477 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    Another guide for you gents - the Teagasc 2010 SRC Willow best practices:

    http://www.seai.ie/Renewables/Bioenergy/Willow_Best_Practice_Guide_2010.pdf

    After reading all of this, I wish I had land to grow the stuff on now...

    Oh - and a second guide from Teagasc - Willow Fact Sheet:

    http://www.teagasc.ie/publications/2010/859/859_Willow.pdf


  • #45
    El Kabong!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 296 ✭✭El Kabong!


    That is very useful, thanks.

    I am rethinking my approach now. I was going to cut my 1 year old willow rods into 3, and then plant up 3 times the area, so I would have 1 acre. Using cuttings would save me money but now I am worried that I would be leaving myself open to disease problems.

    I think I will just stump and order another .25 acre/500 setts in a mix, and then next year, plant up the remaining .5 acre with the cuttings from that.

    If only I knew about mixing last season.... oh well you live and learn.


  • #46
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I got round that issue by picking different types from around the area, unfortunately I included a lot of slow growers in the mix :(, so i will replace most of those this winter.


  • #47
    staff1986
    Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭staff1986


    im thinking of getting in on the renewable wood burning scene. i have a little over an acre around the back of the house. at the moment it is left to the wild, covered in long grass really for the past 5years. it used to be used for growing corn. my question is this: would i need to clear out the grass around the area i plan to grow the trees?

    I would rather keep the field the way it is in terms of grass cover because of any wildlife that may be living in there.


  • #48
    10-10-20
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,477 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    Pretty much yes, you need to provide light so not to smother the early shoots.
    But you could create a meadow instead. Loads of guides online.


  • #49
    El Kabong!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 296 ✭✭El Kabong!


    Hi,

    The field I got was pretty much unused for 4-5 years. Quite heavy grass. I cut it all back as it would crowd out the young shoots.
    Once the willow has established it will crowd out the undergrowth itself.


  • #50
    staff1986
    Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭staff1986


    thanks for info. will hopefully b under way feb / march


  • #51
    daisymac
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭daisymac


    Thanks for the useful factsheets on willow growing. We are trying to get a plantation growing during our self-build so that its at least established when we move in. Lots of willow in the hedges around the site, so will hopefully use whats there.
    Any hints on which ones are the slow growerrs would be great, dolanbaker!
    Another question - is willow only useful as woodchip? Or does it get big enough for use in a log boiler?


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