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Hijab, Niqab or Nothing interview

245

Comments

  • #52
    dead one
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    I was talking about hijab as well (I said burka later, but here I was talking about hijab). My point still stands, because nothing here actually addresses it. If hijab was the way women look in reality, then there would be no need to have explicit rules on hijab, as women would already look that way in the first place.
    hiya mark,
    hijab has rules and those rules are prescribed in hadiths. What are hadith, hadiths are action of Prophets.... Muslims have to follow those rules while offering Prayers, Hajjj and etc... Quran tells us about prayer but rules aren't prescribe in whole quran... similarly, there is no explicitly in rules about hijab. Hijab is religious dress given to women. If you don't wear hijab according to those rules then that isn't hijab.... I hope you would be clear.
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    As for the rest of you post? While you can argue that it is "cheating" by emphasising your benefits with make up, it's also "cheating" to completely hide them away. Also, its pretty obvious that if you don't want to "cheat" with make-up, then simply don't wear make-up. That the implication here is that women have to completely cover up to avoid this cheating, which just begs the question of how men manage to avoid cheating by simply not wearing make up.
    No it's not cheating, even it's cheating then it's clear cheating... I mean, you can clearly judge by her dress that she has been cheating others... Let me give you example, suppose i wear a shirt with the word "cheater"... I am giving clear message with my shirt that i am a cheater... So it doesn't come into detail of cheating. As people can judge me by seeing on my shirt...Where as if i try to cheat other people by pretending that i ain't a cheater, that would be greater cheater... See, mark hamil, clearly you don't have any answer what i am saying and you just countering my argument... ... cheating is fraud, in which the victim doesn't that he/she is being cheated. Makeup is cheating by hiding your real self . Cheating refers to immoral way of achieving a goal... while there is no immorality in hijab.... Cheating is generally used for the breaking of rules to gain advantage in a competitive situation... There is no advantage wearing hijab in a competitive situation... while purpose of makeup is to gain advantage in a competitive situation..... For example majority of models do make for modeling.... This is how they cheat the mob and their fellow models.... clearly hijab doesn't come in the definition of cheating... think for a moment what are saying.... or provide me proof, how a woman wearing hijab is cheating other by giving example...
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    Well, no I don't, why is it cheating to wear make up? It tells you something about a womans personality by seeing the make up they wear, so by not allowing it, you cant see how they think about themselves, which actually makes it a little harder to perceive their personality. Secondly, the hijab is itself a form of make up, but in this case its to completely hide their appearance (as opposed to emphasise parts of it), so its also cheating to wear it. Your physical appearance is a part of your personality. Adhering to hijab, according to those women in the video, allows them to express their personality the way they want, therefore the hijab is a way to emphasis the parts of themselves they like and hide the parts they dont, just like make up.
    You got to be kidding me.... you said
    the hijab is itself a form of make up, but in this case its to completely hide their appearance (as opposed to emphasise parts of it), so its also cheating to wear it
    if that is case then everything is makeup... reality is that every one should be naked.... Every one is cheating other... See, there is no artificiality in hijab.. It's just a dress as you wear cloth.... But making up yourself in such a way that you cheat reality, that is shallowness. For example suppose my color is black and you know blacks don't good look in the valley of whites... So i makeup in such a way that i look white... that's cheating / shallowness in reality.... i have cheated my existence to become white... as i was naturally black... That's what majority of westren and eastren woman do... Who is brainwashing them about concept of reality..... is artificiality reality... I think you have no answer for that.... The answer is Islam and hijab.... A religion of nature...
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    Its funny seeing a quote that tries to represent Islam as being the free choice, and the West as being the constrictive choice, when the language used directly contradicts teh point because its nonsense. Women are "free to struggle" in Islam, it says, as if that is any kind of freedom. The West "resists guidelines for women" as if that represents a lack of freedom on women's part. The Islamic model can't claim any model if it expects its citizens to struggle against its imposed values and restrictions.
    it's funny when you say this by neglecting what is happening around you... "The Qur'anic view insists on interdependence while the Western view encourages atomization and independence. The Western view sees society as a place where the individual should be as free as possible to pursue his own definition of norms to the extent that he likes without hurting anyone else. Injury to another individual in the Western view of society usually means physical or material injury. The rights of the individual and his social, economic and political sovereignty are paramount. The purpose of society is to gain the individual his/her rights and to guarantee order and equal opportunity to make the pursuit of rights possible. To make this possible, society must be defined as value free to avoid clashes or the prevention of others to pursue their own personal definition of happiness or success or fairness etc... In the Western model, value judgements are considered to be 'biased' and an impingement of another's rights. The only value judgement allowed is the one of material equality. No one would argue, for example, that it is right to be poor or wrong to be rich. In the value free society the norm to measure inequality is usually based on a material criteria. The western feminist movement framed its goals within this criteria. The "value-free" society is presumably based on the assumption that everyone pursuing his own interests and personalized definition of norms will lead to the harmonization of the whole community. Such a society also justifies its value-free claim on the assumption that in a pluralistic heterogeneous community with different levels of education and condition, that it is impossible to agree on a loose body of norms deemed universal"
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    And? Does this say anything about my original point? That the Islamic societies that most strongly push Hijab (and the most fundamentalist interpretations of it) are societies with a recent resurgence of fundamentalists who used that fundamentalism (under the guise of traditionalism and anti-foreign influence propaganda) to gain control in the first place.
    you used the words islamic societies, give at least two or three example... leave the irananian society for a moment.
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    It seems to be the belief that god is absolute, unique and indivisible. Still dont see how it contradicts me.
    it seems you didn't the whole of concept of taweed... and it contradict with your point...
    God is a different entity to me, therefore his will is different to my own. You even point out that I can take his will or my will, so I can see you agree in principle, you just dont like the contradiction its creating for you in your other assertions.
    what is tauheed. it tells that toheed is the essence of the testimony that there is no god except Allaah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allaah, and that this is Islam with which Allaah sent His Prophet to the two races of mankind and the jinn, other than which Allaah will not accept any religion from anyone. If you follow islam and believe in God then God is't a different entity to you...
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    It doesn't matter whether you look long or short term, there is still no freedom in hijab. Imagine there was someone who was afraid of going out of their house, afraid of being attacked, afraid of getting lost. So, to avoid having to deal with these fears, they stay at home, all the time. Are they free? Is it freedom to deny your fears by completely removing a facet of your life? Or is true freedom facing those fears and not giving in to them, not living your life subject to them.
    If you want an alternative to the hijab, its simple. Just recognise that those evils, dont have any power over you if you dont let them have it. You dont need to do anything, you dont need to avoid anything, just recognise that regardless of what environment you are in and temptations are presented to you, that its up to you to take them or not take them. Deny the possibility of taking them, denies your opportunity to reject them, which denies the whole point of existence (to be tested by god, according to you and islam.).
    right give me, answer why society is going towards evils, if i believe your quote is true...
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    Of course the hijab makes women look artificial, no-one is born wearing a head scarf, its not a naturally occurring biological appendage. You assert that the hijab is necessary to make women look natural, yet hijab is itself an artificial addition to their biological body. Therefore you have a contradiction and and you just demonstrate the shallowness of the hijab again.
    That's dress, but does that dress changes color or original apearance of women.... No it doesn't, but makeup changes original/natural apearance of women/men.... Take example of micheal Jackson for the time being.. what makes him to betray his own race... wasn't he shy with his original appearance...


  • #53
    oceanclub
    Registered Users Posts: 3,411 ✭✭✭oceanclub


    dead one wrote: »
    hiya oceanclub
    my below message is true if it wasn't accident.... right...
    This is cultural sickness, It has got nothing to do with islam

    That may be true, but the fact is that many Muslims _think_ it is a religious issue.

    http://www.nytimes.com/1991/12/20/us/missouri-couple-sentenced-to-die-in-murder-of-their-daughter-16.html
    "If my father is sent to death because he is a Muslim, then he is proud of himself to die that way," the dead girl's sister, Fatima Isa, screamed after the sentences were handed down by Circuit Judge Charles A. Shaw

    http://www.nytimes.com/1991/10/28/us/terror-and-death-at-home-are-caught-in-fbi-tape.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm
    After the verdicts were read, an agitated family friend who would give her name only as Mrs. Abraham expressed her dismay at what she saw as the jury's failure to acknowledge the Palestinian culture. "I feel it's not right. We follow our religion," said Mrs. Abraham. She said the Isas had to discipline their daughter or lose respect. "They'd be embarrassed in front of everybody in the country like somebody when they go without their clothes outside."

    In this case, a girl approves of the murder of her own sister, by her own parents, because he was doing his "Muslim" duty. The entire thing was caught on tape as the father was being investigated for other reasons:

    http://www.nytimes.com/1991/10/28/us/terror-and-death-at-home-are-caught-in-fbi-tape.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm
    The mother says, "Shut up!"

    Tina continues to cry, but her voice is unintelligible.

    "Die! Die quickly! Die quickly!" the father says.

    The girl moans, seems to quiet, then screams one last time.

    "Quiet, little one! Die my daughter, die!" the father says.

    Tina was stabbed six times in the chest with a boning knife, which pierced her heart, one lung, and liver, investigators said.

    Mr. Zein admitted on the witness stand that he put his foot on his daughter's mouth to quiet her. His wife did not testify.

    An alternate juror, Carl Smith, said he would think about the tape for the rest of his life. "I cried because I wish I could have been there to help her," he said.
    You know some people are so sick of culture that they got it as lord. Islam is against such sickness.... I think you don't know afghan people

    Honour killings are not limited to Afghans; the above case involved Palestinian-Americans.

    Here's my question, dead one. Do you think your constant haranging about women to be "honorable" and your inability to see women as anything other than sexless appendages to their husbands/fathers adds to this climate of hate?

    P.


  • #54
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    dead one wrote: »
    hiya mark,
    hijab has rules and those rules are prescribed in hadiths. What are hadith, hadiths are action of Prophets.... Muslims have to follow those rules while offering Prayers, Hajjj and etc... Quran tells us about prayer but rules aren't prescribe in whole quran... similarly, there is no explicitly in rules about hijab. Hijab is religious dress given to women. If you don't wear hijab according to those rules then that isn't hijab.... I hope you would be clear.

    Thats clear, but its got nothing to do with what I was saying. You said that the hijab was what women look like in reality, I said if that was the case, there would be no need for explicit rules for the hijab for when girls become women as they would be born that way in the first place.
    dead one wrote: »
    No it's not cheating, even it's cheating then it's clear cheating... I mean, you can clearly judge by her dress that she has been cheating others... Let me give you example, suppose i wear a shirt with the word "cheater"... I am giving clear message with my shirt that i am a cheater... So it doesn't come into detail of cheating. As people can judge me by seeing on my shirt...Where as if i try to cheat other people by pretending that i ain't a cheater, that would be greater cheater... See, mark hamil, clearly you don't have any answer what i am saying and you just countering my argument... ... cheating is fraud, in which the victim doesn't that he/she is being cheated. Makeup is cheating by hiding your real self . Cheating refers to immoral way of achieving a goal... while there is no immorality in hijab.... Cheating is generally used for the breaking of rules to gain advantage in a competitive situation... There is no advantage wearing hijab in a competitive situation... while purpose of makeup is to gain advantage in a competitive situation..... For example majority of models do make for modeling.... This is how they cheat the mob and their fellow models.... clearly hijab doesn't come in the definition of cheating... think for a moment what are saying.... or provide me proof, how a woman wearing hijab is cheating other by giving example...

    Just follow your own example. With the hijab, you can cover up your shirt with the word "cheater" on it and so you become a greater cheater. If covering up with make up is cheating, then so is covering up with clothes.
    dead one wrote: »
    You got to be kidding me.... you said

    if that is case then everything is makeup... reality is that every one should be naked.... Every one is cheating other... See, there is no artificiality in hijab.. It's just a dress as you wear cloth.... But making up yourself in such a way that you cheat reality, that is shallowness.

    Everything is make up. But I'm not the one who says that make up is cheating so this is not an issue with me.
    dead one wrote: »
    For example suppose my color is black and you know blacks don't good look in the valley of whites... So i makeup in such a way that i look white... that's cheating / shallowness in reality .... i have cheated my existence to become white... as i was naturally black...

    Or suppose that you are a woman, who knows that women dont come across well in the valley of men, so they cover up in such a way that they cant be distinguished as women (in theory anyway). Is that not cheating and shallowness? Is it not cheating a woman's existence to deny that her physical body is a part of who she is?
    dead one wrote: »
    it's funny when you say this by neglecting what is happening around you... "The Qur'anic view insists on interdependence while the Western view encourages atomization and independence. The Western view sees society as a place where the individual should be as free as possible to pursue his own definition of norms to the extent that he likes without hurting anyone else. Injury to another individual in the Western view of society usually means physical or material injury. The rights of the individual and his social, economic and political sovereignty are paramount. The purpose of society is to gain the individual his/her rights and to guarantee order and equal opportunity to make the pursuit of rights possible. To make this possible, society must be defined as value free to avoid clashes or the prevention of others to pursue their own personal definition of happiness or success or fairness etc... In the Western model, value judgements are considered to be 'biased' and an impingement of another's rights. The only value judgement allowed is the one of material equality. No one would argue, for example, that it is right to be poor or wrong to be rich. In the value free society the norm to measure inequality is usually based on a material criteria. The western feminist movement framed its goals within this criteria. The "value-free" society is presumably based on the assumption that everyone pursuing his own interests and personalized definition of norms will lead to the harmonization of the whole community. Such a society also justifies its value-free claim on the assumption that in a pluralistic heterogeneous community with different levels of education and condition, that it is impossible to agree on a loose body of norms deemed universal"

    While I suppose it is something that you at least put quotes from some website in quotes, you should also reference the website you are taking them from. This is especially important for you, as English isn't your first language, so arguing someone else's points, made in a non native language, will only get you so far. For instance, you haven't seen the immediate and obvious contradiction in bold. Western society cannot be value free, the very opposite must be true. At the very least, Western society must value freedom, assuming they are championing it above all else. Of course western society values a great many other ideas too, its why western society has laws.
    dead one wrote: »
    you used the words islamic societies, give at least two or three example... leave the irananian society for a moment.

    Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan (under taliban law, until recently). Then you have the fundamentalist groups trying to get in power in and around Indonesia and Malaysia such as Jemaah Islamiyah.
    dead one wrote: »
    it seems you didn't the whole of concept of taweed... and it contradict with your point...

    what is tauheed. it tells that toheed is the essence of the testimony that there is no god except Allaah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allaah, and that this is Islam with which Allaah sent His Prophet to the two races of mankind and the jinn, other than which Allaah will not accept any religion from anyone. If you follow islam and believe in God then God is't a different entity to you...

    Thats not the wikipedia explanation of Tawhid, which specifically states the opposite: "The Qu'ran asserts the existence of a single and absolute truth that transcends the world; a unique, independent and indivisible being, who is independent of the entire creation."
    dead one wrote: »
    right give me, answer why society is going towards evils, if i believe your quote is true...

    Firstly, I dont believe that society is going towards evil. Yes people do stupid and bad things with their freedoms, but people have always done that and thats why we have laws, because we recognise that some freedoms need to be curtailed so that they dont infringe on others. Secondly if what you said was true, then the muslim societies with the highest observance of hijab (ie the ones that require it, like Saudi Arabia and Iran and Afghanistan) would be the societies that had the least amount of evils in the world. Do you believe this to be the case? Can you name an islamic society, in the world today, that is better than the West thanks to the hijab?
    dead one wrote: »
    That's dress, but does that dress changes color or original apearance of women.... No it doesn't, but makeup changes original/natural apearance of women/men.... Take example of micheal Jackson for the time being.. what makes him to betray his own race... wasn't he shy with his original appearance...

    The dress changes the appearance of women, that's the point of it. Make up also changes the appearance of women (make up doesn't actually change your skin colour, its a temporary colouring, not a permanent chemical change). Michael Jackson didn't change colour because of make up, he change colour because drugs taken specifically to do that (ie it was a chemically induced permanent change). Even if he did, so what? Its no different to someone having corrective surgery for a crooked nose or to remove a mole. If your personality and your opinions are really what matter, then it shouldn't matter if and by how much you change your appearance.


  • #55
    pancuronium
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 181 ✭✭pancuronium


    I have watched the video and would like to give my opinion in relation to the full head dress worn by Muslim women, I have no problem with anyone wearing these items in the privacy of their own home but In Ireland & other parts of Europe I think people feel threatened by the full head dress as much as they feel threatened by someone wearing a hoodie & covering their face (See Link Below) people like to see what they are dealing with and if Muslim people can’t understand this then where can we go but to ban these items........................ I'm open to opinions / questions / correction.





    article-1307592-0AF95E62000005DC-817_468x261.jpg


  • #56
    blackthorn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 90 ✭✭blackthorn


    Hi Pancuronium
    In my opinion it is a mistake to categorise the face veil as something that belongs in the home, like a fetish that should stay in the privacy of the bedroom. For the women who wear it, the veil facilitates them to go out in public - that is its function. Without it, they would not go out. Banning the veil would take away those women's access to the outside world.

    I do not believe that a veiled woman is equivalent to a hooligan or a criminal. I'm sure you don't feel threatened when a Christian woman wears a white veil on her wedding day. Similarly, when I see a veiled Muslim woman, I see someone expressing a particular piety and I feel no threat. I realise people can be afraid of the unknown, but surely the answer is to try and learn and understand as an antidote to that fear.


  • #57
    dead one
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    oceanclub wrote: »
    That may be true, but the fact is that many Muslims _think_ it is a religious issue.
    http://www.nytimes.com/1991/12/20/us/missouri-couple-sentenced-to-die-in-murder-of-their-daughter-16.html
    http://www.nytimes.com/1991/10/28/us/terror-and-death-at-home-are-caught-in-fbi-tape.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm
    In this case, a girl approves of the murder of her own sister, by her own parents, because he was doing his "Muslim" duty. The entire thing was caught on tape as the father was being investigated for other reasons:
    http://www.nytimes.com/1991/10/28/us/terror-and-death-at-home-are-caught-in-fbi-tape.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm
    hiya ocean club...
    your gave me link of "new york times" but you forget who owns new york news---The New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, & the Washington Post.
    ...These three paper are in Jewish hands.. Suzberger family also owns, through the New York Times Co. 36 other newspapers; twelve magazines, including McCall's and Family Circle..."
    Now, you also know Israel Palestine crisis.. You think Jew boys will tell us truth about real situation in Palestine.. infact whole state of Isreal is illegal at that land... think for a moment... who knows jew boys are telling truth, who knows whether they planted these tapes or not... like i said, It's cultural issue, Afghan are straightforward when it comes to family ritual... The news in newyork time is nothing but jew boy propganda to legitimize their doing in public... it's old hyena tactics...
    oceanclub wrote: »
    Honour killings are not limited to Afghans; the above case involved Palestinian-Americans.
    Above case is clear propaganda, even in the book of lies you will find truth...
    oceanclub wrote: »
    Here's my question, dead one. Do you think your constant haranging about women to be "honorable" and your inability to see women as anything other than sexless appendages to their husbands/fathers adds to this climate of hate?
    P.
    Good question, right if that is case, then i don't use women to create sex scenes... The same sex scene which are corrupting the imagination of youth... Thinks for a moment, it's not me, its liberal mindset like you... Are you not aware of your media.... why are they banning hijab, the reason is simple because it makes women feel what they are, and liberal like you don't want women should feel what are they.... See, it's dangerous for their business if all women start wearing hijab and boycotting their product... They are using women in the name of freedom... To flourish their business, they have been corrupting the most beautiful element of life i.e, the women.. See, the irony in your own question....what you think is completely is reverse to real world..


  • #58
    pancuronium
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 181 ✭✭pancuronium


    blackthorn wrote: »
    Hi Pancuronium
    In my opinion it is a mistake to categorise the face veil as something that belongs in the home, like a fetish that should stay in the privacy of the bedroom. For the women who wear it, the veil facilitates them to go out in public - that is its function. Without it, they would not go out. Banning the veil would take away those women's access to the outside world.

    I do not believe that a veiled woman is equivalent to a hooligan or a criminal. I'm sure you don't feel threatened when a Christian woman wears a white veil on her wedding day. Similarly, when I see a veiled Muslim woman, I see someone expressing a particular piety and I feel no threat. I realise people can be afraid of the unknown, but surely the answer is to try and learn and understand as an antidote to that fear.


    Firstly Blackthorn many thanks for your reply, generally I wouldn't get involved in a debate in relation to something I know little about, but above "dead one" made a point of posting a picture of a woman and I quote:

    "You see this is cheating, she is cheating other people by making her look artificial.. This is shallowness... You can hire her for strip club... You can make her girlfriend... You can do whatever you want with.... Why??? because she doesn't know who is she...... She doesn't know what is status in her society... "

    Firstly I personally find this statement offensive & I think "dead one" will find in our society You cannot do whatever you want with............ There is a thing called respect & concent in our country & also a thing called the law!


    Also I must disagree with you comparing the veil on a Christian woman’s face to the niqab (See picture below)

    wedding-veils.jpg


    Quite a difference, do you not agree? you can also do a search on Google images for a Christian wedding veil, there all very similar to the one posted here & I don’t think you will find one that can be compared to a niqab.

    my point simply was that people in a public place in Ireland (where crime is not nonexistent) can feel threatened by any person concealing their face, therefore we can't have a rule for one & not for another........... my point is that shop owners, pub owners, banks, shopping centres etc, may have no choice but to ban such items of clothing concealing the face...................................

    Do you believe that it would be past a criminal to wear niqab in public if this would help them in acquiring their goal?

    Again I'm open to opinions / questions / correction on this.


  • #59
    oceanclub
    Registered Users Posts: 3,411 ✭✭✭oceanclub


    dead one wrote: »
    hiya ocean club...
    your gave me link of "new york times" but you forget who owns new york news---The New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, & the Washington Post.
    ...These three paper are in Jewish hands..

    Yes, I should have known you're resort to anti-Semitism.

    OK, fine, give me a list of which newspapers you consider accurate. I'll make sure as far as possible that no Jews work for them.

    P.


  • #60
    dead one
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    hiya pancuronium
    do you think that i lied, or i am liar, I spoke truth and truth is quite bitter to accept.. You can see movies of Muslim countries. Even those movies don't represent islam, but due to infulence islam in the region, movie makers hesitate to put sex scene in their movies.
    Also I must disagree with you comparing the veil on a Christian woman’s face to the niqab (See picture below)
    The women doesn't represent Christianity and we believe Bible was once word of God. The teaching of Jesus was Islam and he was one of the messenger of God. If you see the reality, you will find most Christian women (including the women in the picture) don't, and many don't take other guideline of the Bible (against pre-marital sex, adultery, etc) literally either. However, there do seem to be a increasing no of Christian women out there who are committed to following the Bible as it is written. Below are some webpages

    According to the Scriptures: Headcovering
    Biblical Headcovering: The Scarf of Hidden Power
    Christian Women's Headcovering Directory
    Headcoverings and the Christian Woman
    Is a Woman's Hair Her Only Covering?
    Let Her Be Veiled
    Modesty and Christian Living in the 90s
    My Testimony Regarding the Headcovering
    Nigerian Catholics told to be modest
    No Such Custom?
    On the Covering of Heads
    She Maketh Herself Headcoverings
    Should Christian Women Wear a Headcovering?
    The Biblical Practice of Headcovering
    The Christian Modesty
    The Christian Veiling
    The Headcoverings of Sisters
    The Rites of Submission
    The Significance of the Christian Woman's Veiling
    The Veil
    Women's Headcovering and the Glory of God


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  • #61
    dead one
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    oceanclub wrote: »
    Yes, I should have known you're resort to anti-Semitism.

    OK, fine, give me a list of which newspapers you consider accurate. I'll make sure as far as possible that no Jews work for them.

    P.
    oceanclub, leave it you wont find such propganda in any other newpapers. Don't waste your time. If you insist then will provide


  • #62
    oceanclub
    Registered Users Posts: 3,411 ✭✭✭oceanclub


    dead one wrote: »
    oceanclub, leave it you wont find such propganda in any other newpapers. Don't waste your time. If you insist than i will provide

    Ah brilliant, so there's absolutely no news resource you consider accurate. (Other than the Koran, I presume.)

    BTW, can a moderator tell me if anti-Semitism breaches the posting guidelines?

    P.


  • #63
    dead one
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    oceanclub wrote: »
    Ah brilliant, so there's absolutely no news resource you consider accurate. (Other than the Koran, I presume.)

    BTW, can a moderator tell me if anti-Semitism breaches the posting guidelines?

    P.
    See, ocean club, If i tell you Bible is wrong or Corrupted, the words don't carry weight in my mouth. If a christian says Bible is corrupted then that thing carries weight. Same theory applies upon Newpaper.. You are telling stories from Jew boy's mouth against Palestine. who would believe those stories... think for a moment.

    P.


  • #64
    pancuronium
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 181 ✭✭pancuronium


    dead one wrote: »
    hiya pancuronium
    do you think that i lied, or i am liar, I spoke truth and truth is quite bitter to accept.. You can see movies of Muslim countries. Even those movies don't represent islam, but due to infulence islam in the region, movie makers hesitate to put sex scene in their movies.
    The women doesn't represent Christianity and we believe Bible was once word of God. The teaching of Jesus was Islam and he was one of the messenger of God. If you see the reality, you will find most Christian women (including the women in the picture) don't, and many don't take other guideline of the Bible (against pre-marital sex, adultery, etc) literally either. However, there do seem to be a increasing no of Christian women out there who are committed to following the Bible as it is written. Below are some webpages

    According to the Scriptures: Headcovering
    Biblical Headcovering: The Scarf of Hidden Power
    Christian Women's Headcovering Directory
    Headcoverings and the Christian Woman
    Is a Woman's Hair Her Only Covering?
    Let Her Be Veiled
    Modesty and Christian Living in the 90s
    My Testimony Regarding the Headcovering
    Nigerian Catholics told to be modest
    No Such Custom?
    On the Covering of Heads
    She Maketh Herself Headcoverings
    Should Christian Women Wear a Headcovering?
    The Biblical Practice of Headcovering
    The Christian Modesty
    The Christian Veiling
    The Headcoverings of Sisters
    The Rites of Submission
    The Significance of the Christian Woman's Veiling
    The Veil
    Women's Headcovering and the Glory of God

    I don't call you a liar I say you’re WRONG in your statement and again I quote:

    "You see this is cheating, she is cheating other people by making her look artificial.. This is shallowness... You can hire her for strip club... You can make her girlfriend... You can do whatever you want with.... Why??? because she doesn't know who is she...... She doesn't know what is status in her society... "

    I certainly never said that this woman represents Christianity nor brought Christianity into the equation as again I have little knowledge of this subject, what I was saying in layman’s terms was YOUR WRONG IN YOUR THINKING AND YOUR WRONG IN YOUR BELIEFE OF IRISH / MUSLIM / EUROPEAN / WOMEN IN GENERAL.

    Just because a woman does not agree with your opinion / belief / interpretation of Islam etc gives you zero rights to treat or speak of her in the way did above. This is Ireland and women have exactly the same rights as you do in this society it’s not “QUITE BITTER” as you state above but in truth FACT!

    AND IN IRELAND THIS IS THE TRUTH AND YES IN THIS CONTEXT THE TRUTH IS QUITE BITTER DO YOU NOT AGREE?


  • #65
    brimal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,217 ✭✭✭brimal


    dead one wrote: »
    hiya ocean club...
    your gave me link of "new york times" but you forget who owns new york news---The New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, & the Washington Post.
    ...These three paper are in Jewish hands.. Suzberger family also owns, through the New York Times Co. 36 other newspapers; twelve magazines, including McCall's and Family Circle..."
    Now, you also know Israel Palestine crisis.. You think Jew boys will tell us truth about real situation in Palestine.. infact whole state of Isreal is illegal at that land... think for a moment... who knows jew boys are telling truth, who knows whether they planted these tapes or not... like i said, It's cultural issue, Afghan are straightforward when it comes to family ritual... The news in newyork time is nothing but jew boy propganda to legitimize their doing in public... it's old hyena tactics...

    Above case is clear propaganda, even in the book of lies you will find truth...

    Good question, right if that is case, then i don't use women to create sex scenes... The same sex scene which are corrupting the imagination of youth... Thinks for a moment, it's not me, its liberal mindset like you... Are you not aware of your media.... why are they banning hijab, the reason is simple because it makes women feel what they are, and liberal like you don't want women should feel what are they.... See, it's dangerous for their business if all women start wearing hijab and boycotting their product... They are using women in the name of freedom... To flourish their business, they have been corrupting the most beautiful element of life i.e, the women.. See, the irony in your own question....what you think is completely is reverse to real world..

    So if these newspapers were owned by Muslims would they be equally as suspicious? Or is it because they are Jews?

    I'm not sure if it's because English isn't your first language, or you are completely ignorant (and it could very well be this option, considering your stance on women), but the term 'Jew boy' is considered derogatory towards Jews.


  • #66
    dead one
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    pancuronium wrote: »
    I don't call you a liar I say you’re WRONG in your statement and again I quote:

    what I was saying in layman’s terms was YOUR WRONG IN YOUR THINKING AND YOUR WRONG IN YOUR BELIEFE OF IRISH / MUSLIM / EUROPEAN / WOMEN IN GENERAL. [/COLOR]

    AND IN IRELAND THIS IS THE TRUTH AND YES IN THIS CONTEXT THE TRUTH IS QUITE BITTER DO YOU NOT AGREE?
    hiya pancuronium.
    then prove me wrong. i ain't attacking on characters of all European women... As i know five fingers aren't equal. I am saying, it is very easy to have girl friend in western countries. You can't date them etc. Why because they represent themselves in a cheated way... by displaying their parts and by artificially presenting them to others... Tell: if am and wrong. Mark hamil and all other of you have ignored my point... Why are sex scenes common in westren movies ..... The same scenes which are corrupting the natural scenes of society... Who watch these movies, your youth and what do you think what they learn from these movies and media.... and did i use the name Irish, i am talking about general western society.
    brimal wrote: »
    So if these newspapers were owned by Muslims would they be equally as suspicious? Or is it because they are Jews?

    I'm not sure if it's because English isn't your first language, or you are completely ignorant (and it could very well be this option, considering your stance on women), but the term 'Jew boy' is considered derogatory towards Jews.
    hiya brimal
    It's native rivalry. You didn't get my point. Jew boys want Palestine and they are full of bias about Palestinian people. So why should i believe in them that they are telling truth. You said,"if these newspapers were owned by Muslims".... Did muslims own any illegal land as jews boys...


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  • #67
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    dead one wrote: »
    See, ocean club, If i tell you Bible is wrong or Corrupted, the words don't carry weight in my mouth. If a christian says Bible is corrupted then that thing carries weight. Same theory applies upon Newpaper.. You are telling stories from Jew boy's mouth against Palestine. who would believe those stories... think for a moment.

    P.

    If your words wouldn't carry weight when you say that the bible is wrong or corrupted, then should your words carry any weight when you say that newspapers are wrong or corrupted.


  • #68
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    dead one wrote: »
    hiya pancuronium.
    then prove me wrong. i ain't attacking on characters of all European women... As i know five fingers aren't equal. I am saying, it is very easy to have girl friend in western countries. You can't date them etc. Why because they represent themselves in a cheated way... by displaying their parts and by artificially presenting them to others...

    Which is exactly the same case with the hijab. Head scarves are artificial. No girl comes from the womb with her head covered.
    dead one wrote: »
    Tell: if am and wrong. Mark hamil and all other of you have ignored my point... Why are sex scenes common in westren movies ..... The same scenes which are corrupting the natural scenes of society... Who watch these movies, your youth and what do you think what they learn from these movies and media.... and did i use the name Irish, i am talking about general western society.

    Firstly, films with sex scenes are not allowed to be sold to youths, that what the age rating is for. Secondly, sex happens in real life, so why should we pretend that it doesn't in our movies? Sex is not some dirty act that should never be spoken of in public, and for some of people, its even that private of an act. Lastly, youths dont need help being corrupted in this way, their god given puberty does that for them.
    dead one wrote: »
    hiya brimal
    It's native rivalry. You didn't get my point. Jew boys want Palestine and they are full of bias about Palestinian people. So why should i believe in them that they are telling truth. You said,"if these newspapers were owned by Muslims".... Did muslims own any illegal land as jews boys...

    Constantly using the phrase "jew boys" just makes you look full of bias and makes me question why we should believe anything you say. Even assuming that article is biased, do you really believe that there aren't muslims out their who have somehow convinced themselves that their honour killings are somehow justified by muslim teaching?


  • #69
    Hobbes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,264 ✭✭✭✭Hobbes


    Any more use of the term "jew boys" will result in a weeks vacation. Please remember the charter when posting. Thanks.


  • #70
    dead one
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    Hobbes wrote: »
    Any more use of the term "jew boys" will result in a weeks vacation. Please remember the charter when posting. Thanks.
    hiya hobbes,
    What charter says, if someone uses propaganda against Islam, i mean i ain't good with English, could you please remind me in few lines, I wouldn't forget this.


  • #71
    Hobbes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,264 ✭✭✭✭Hobbes


    It says you use the report post function if someone is breaking the charter. It also says not to discuss the charter on threads as it derails the thread. End of this line of discussion here, thanks.


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  • #72
    meglome
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    dead one wrote: »
    hiya meglome, it's interesting to see that you have no desire to insult me yet you mentioned it, Do you think i am insulting you, Is truth insulting to you. Am i not speaking truth. Do women in your society not look sex dolls. Ask to yourself, what your youth is doing in colleges and universities. Who is brainwashing them against status of Women. Is that Dead one.

    I wanted to be direct but not insult you. You do offend me a bit with your sweeping generalisations and I suppose that you fail to understand that they are sweeping generalisations. I have no issue with truth should I hear it. Some women in this society do look like sex dolls... some. That's a price of a free society. I'd still rather that to a society where many people have to pretend to be something they are not. Or worse are not permitted freedom as they happen not to be men.
    dead one wrote: »
    Five finger aren't equal. People aren't the same all over the world, when you say people are same you are saying five finger are equal which isn't true.

    Well I can only tell you what I experienced myself first hand. Environments change but people are the same. Sure they may not look the same but they are the same otherwise. A little read about DNA would confirm that for you.
    dead one wrote: »
    h
    I ain't saying muslim countries are better than western countries. Majority of these countries are inspired by western culture. Due to western invasion into these countries, these countries have lost their true islamic culture. A culture which preserves rights of Woman. Take example of saudia, saudis are ruled by dictators, there is dictatorship in saudia, that's why what they implement in their country, has got nothing to do with Islam. Islam is quran and the way given by Prophet Muhammad. A person who is muslim and not following Islam. He doesn't represent Islam at all.

    The western world learned an awful lot from Islamic cultures. Should I now believe we have lost our 'true' culture? Cultures have evolved since the beginning of time. The ones which haven't have failed.
    Many Islamic countries could be described as authoritarian.
    dead one wrote: »
    "The Noble Qur'an - Al-Ahzab 33:59

    O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils)* all over their bodies (i.e. screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allah is Ever Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

    *the arabic word here is Jalabeeb (plural of Jalbaab), which is the loose outer garment that covers all a woman's body. It says here to use the Jalabeeb to cover all, and scholars say this means to use it to cover her head (agree upon by all scholars) and her face (agreed by many scholars, not all) and one or both eyes, in order for it to be known that she is a free woman and so not to be exposed to any harm."

    So does it say when or how often they have to draw their cloaks?


  • #73
    dead one
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    If your words wouldn't carry weight when you say that the bible is wrong or corrupted, then should your words carry any weight when you say that newspapers are wrong or corrupted.
    Hiya mark
    You didn't understand, I ain't saying anyone to believe in my words. See, Oceanclub wants me to believe in something, and i said, why would i believe? Now understand that quote in this context.
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    Which is exactly the same case with the hijab. Head scarves are artificial. No girl comes from the womb with her head covered.
    then you didn't answer i am asking again. Is it moral to wear dress or cloth. Where does this idea of covering parts came from. why is it shame to be naked in public.
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    Firstly, films with sex scenes are not allowed to be sold to youths, that what the age rating is for. Secondly, sex happens in real life, so why should we pretend that it doesn't in our movies? Sex is not some dirty act that should never be spoken of in public, and for some of people, its even that private of an act. Lastly, youths dont need help being corrupted in this way, their god given puberty does that for them.
    you must be kidding. It's business, business is to profit, not to morals. I mean in business it's profit which matters. Who knows these business men follow morals, on the other hand, they don't follow moral in making of these movies. Who said sex is dirty. Sex is dirty when it is uncontrollable.
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    Constantly using the phrase "jew boys" just makes you look full of bias and makes me question why we should believe anything you say. Even assuming that article is biased, do you really believe that there aren't muslims out their who have somehow convinced themselves that their honour killings are somehow justified by muslim teaching?
    Yes i am full of bias against those who are full of bias against muslims. Honor killing is cultural issue, I have already given you example of Afghanistan.


  • #74
    dead one
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    meglome wrote: »
    I wanted to be direct but not insult you. You do offend me a bit with your sweeping generalisations and I suppose that you fail to understand that they are sweeping generalisations. I have no issue with truth should I hear it. Some women in this society do look like sex dolls... some. That's a price of a free society. I'd still rather that to a society where many people have to pretend to be something they are not. Or worse are not permitted freedom as they happen not to be men.
    The price of a free society in the name of freedom of woman. If it is then what is this hyena tactic. I mean, western societies /business men use a trap "Freedom of women" to slave womankind. Is that free society. It is same as Mice actually do like cheese, that often works on traps... Women like freedom and let us put the freedom on trap to enslave womankind.
    meglome wrote: »
    Well I can only tell you what I experienced myself first hand. Environments change but people are the same. Sure they may not look the same but they are the same otherwise. A little read about DNA would confirm that for you.
    But evolution says, our ancestors were monkey once. Is evolution wrong
    meglome wrote: »
    So does it say when or how often they have to draw their cloaks?
    So what? Is it wrong


  • #75
    oceanclub
    Registered Users Posts: 3,411 ✭✭✭oceanclub


    dead one wrote: »
    I mean, western societies /business men use a trap "Freedom of women" to slave womankind... It is same as Mice actually do like cheese, that often works on traps...

    Awesome; I'm getting that put on a t-shirt for the missus.

    P.


  • #76
    dead one
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    oceanclub wrote: »
    Awesome; I'm getting that put on a t-shirt for the missus.

    P.
    will it stop advertisement of Parts. See, i tell you it's double trap, Media uses freedom of women as a trap to slave woman kind... and then uses the parts of women to slave mankind. I mean, no sex scene in movies, no business and people like ocean club are limited to their own families. They enjoy by watching other's sister naked.


  • #77
    oceanclub
    Registered Users Posts: 3,411 ✭✭✭oceanclub


    dead one wrote: »
    business and people like ocean club [....] enjoy by watching other's sister naked.

    I'm confused; I don't have a sister.

    P.


  • #78
    dead one
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    oceanclub wrote: »
    I'm confused; I don't have a sister.

    P.
    i ain't talking about your personal sisters. Do you not consider other women as sisters or you consider them as sex dolls. I mean, women who do sex scene in films. Do you not feel shame by watching those scene or you enjoy those women like they are doing a great service to humanity.


  • #79
    oceanclub
    Registered Users Posts: 3,411 ✭✭✭oceanclub


    Do you not consider other women as sisters or you consider them as sex dolls.

    Wouldn't that include one's wife, which makes it incest?

    P.


  • #80
    dead one
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    oceanclub wrote: »
    Wouldn't that include one's wife, which makes it incest?

    P.
    i ain't talking about your family, i am talking women as general, it excludes your wife. Are all women your wife?:eek:


  • #81
    oceanclub
    Registered Users Posts: 3,411 ✭✭✭oceanclub


    dead one wrote: »
    i ain't taking about your family, i am talking women as general, it exclude your wife. Are all women your wife?:eek:

    No, but I think you'll find my wife is a woman.

    P.


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  • #82
    dead one
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    oceanclub wrote: »
    No, but I think you'll find my wife is a woman.

    P.
    i respect your wife, you respect your wife, Isn't it What i Meant all the women in the world should be respected not humiliated in form advertisement-- in forms sex scene --


  • #83
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    dead one wrote: »
    Hiya mark
    You didn't understand, I ain't saying anyone to believe in my words. See, Oceanclub wants me to believe in something, and i said, why would i believe? Now understand that quote in this context.

    No, you said why should you believe a newspaper that is owned by jews, as this, according to your own words, implies an automatic bias against Palestinians. But why should we believe you when you say there is a bias there?
    dead one wrote: »
    then you didn't answer i am asking again. Is it moral to wear dress or cloth. Where does this idea of covering parts came from. why is it shame to be naked in public.

    Its not shameful for everyone, and everyone who does feel shame will feel a different amount of shame depending on the body part on display.
    dead one wrote: »
    you must be kidding. It's business, business is to profit, not to morals. I mean in business it's profit which matters. Who knows these business men follow morals, on the other hand, they don't follow moral in making of these movies. Who said sex is dirty. Sex is dirty when it is uncontrollable.

    What has any of this got to do with my points? You claimed is what our youth who watch these scenes, but I pointed out that we have legally enforced age restrictions on our movies to prevent this. You said that these sex scenes are corrupting us, but I pointed out that sex happens in real life, to most normal people its not automatically considered a dirty act, so why should we pretend that it doesn't in our films? Why do you think that sex is corrupting? Why do you think that youths, of any nation, need any help being sexually interested in the opposite sex? Why do you think that sex scenes in movies make sex uncontrollable?
    dead one wrote: »
    Yes i am full of bias against those who are full of bias against muslims. Honor killing is cultural issue, I have already given you example of Afghanistan.

    But as Oceanclub pointed out, the muslims who fall afoul of this cultural issue seem to think that they are religiously justified. Do you see how it wouldn't be very hard for someone to bastardise what you say about women and how they should dress and be honourable and come up with honour killings?


  • #84
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    dead one wrote: »
    The price of a free society in the name of freedom of woman. If it is then what is this hyena tactic. I mean, western societies /business men use a trap "Freedom of women" to slave womankind. Is that free society. It is same as Mice actually do like cheese, that often works on traps... Women like freedom and let us put the freedom on trap to enslave womankind.

    I think you need to put this through a translator again, as it doesn't say what you seem to think it says.
    dead one wrote: »
    But evolution says, our ancestors were monkey once. Is evolution wrong

    Evolution doesn't say that. It would be nice if you when you were going to deny the fact of evolution that you could at least get what evolution says about humans right.


  • #85
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    dead one wrote: »
    i respect your wife, you respect your wife, Isn't it What i Meant all the women in the world should be respected not humiliated in form advertisement-- in forms sex scene --

    Many women don't see the humiliation in dressing seductively, dancing provocatively or even participating in sex scenes in movies. Maybe you shouldn't be getting humiliated on their behalf?


  • #86
    Hobbes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,264 ✭✭✭✭Hobbes


    I don't think either of you are going to agree. Can you at least agree to disagree so the thread stops going around in circles?


  • #87
    dead one
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    No, you said why should you believe a newspaper that is owned by jews, as this, according to your own words, implies an automatic bias against Palestinians. But why should we believe you when you say there is a bias there?
    See, it's simple you don't believe in my words and i never said, my words are gospel. Similarly, tell ocean club i ain't going to believe because his stories are full of bias
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    Its not shameful for everyone, and everyone who does feel shame will feel a different amount of shame depending on the body part on display.
    Why?? because they are brainwashed about concept of shame. What is purpose of showing these things in public. i mean: Is sex scenes necessary in movies or movies will appear incomplete without these scenes.
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    What has any of this got to do with my points? You claimed is what our youth who watch these scenes, but I pointed out that we have legally enforced age restrictions on our movies to prevent this. You said that these sex scenes are corrupting us, but I pointed out that sex happens in real life, to most normal people its not automatically considered a dirty act, so why should we pretend that it doesn't in our films? Why do you think that sex is corrupting? Why do you think that youths, of any nation, need any help being sexually interested in the opposite sex? Why do you think that sex scenes in movies make sex uncontrollable?
    The point is government/laws can't control sea of desires in youth. Desires follow no rules when they become hungry. I said, sex is corruption in the mind of a child, who doesn't know anything about sex. Some things require time to understand if you enforce those thing too early then it is dangerous. The consequence with which your society is suffering. See, point is very simple, it's very easy to bribe desires and what bribes desires is sex. Movies maker put these scene for business but as a result it completely destroy mind of youth / society. You feel no shame or different amount of shame, Isn't it corruption in concept of shame.
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    But as Oceanclub pointed out, the muslims who fall afoul of this cultural issue seem to think that they are religiously justified. Do you see how it wouldn't be very hard for someone to bastardise what you say about women and how they should dress and be honourable and come up with honour killings?
    religion says.
    Nor take life - which Allah has made sacred - except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, we have given his heir authority (to demand qisas or to forgive): but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the Law). (17:33)
    So with this verse how can one think that they are religiously justified.... See if people think wrong then you should blame people and their culture don't bring religion to show your hatred against religion. honesty is always best policy. Honor killing is cutural issues, Afghans feel shame if their daughter / sister / mother violate their family rituals. You make girlfriend, It isn't act of no shame for you but on the other hand it is shame for an pure afghan to have girlfriend rather he would like to honor girl by making her his wife. I mean pure afghan aren't hypocrite. They are extreme in their harted but they are extreme in love. The difference between concept of shame and honor is varies from culture to culture. You feel honor in some thing else and afghan feels honor in something else. Again it is culture issue.
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    I think you need to put this through a translator again, as it doesn't say what you seem to think it says.
    It's philosophy you can make one thosand meaning, each will fit on my theory.
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    Evolution doesn't say that. It would be nice if you when you were going to deny the fact of evolution that you could at least get what evolution says about humans right.
    Evolution is creation theory for religion of atheism. Atheism tells there is evidence which supports God.... .All life emerges from non intelligence source without any intelligent cause. Some part of humanity, were once chimps.


  • #88
    dead one
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    Many women don't see the humiliation in dressing seductively, dancing provocatively or even participating in sex scenes in movies. Maybe you shouldn't be getting humiliated on their behalf?
    That's corruption in concept of humiliation. The concept changes with corruption in mind. Heart gets sickness with increase in time. What corrupt minds!!!
    1. sex scenes
    2. girl friends/boyfriends
    3. Society/culture
    :)


  • #89
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    dead one wrote: »
    See, it's simple you don't believe in my words and i never said, my words are gospel. Similarly, tell ocean club i ain't going to believe because his stories are full of bias

    But why should we believe you when you say that he is full of bias?
    dead one wrote: »
    Why?? because they are brainwashed about concept of shame. What is purpose of showing these things in public. i mean: Is sex scenes necessary in movies or movies will appear incomplete without these scenes.

    Or its because shame is an entirely human invention, without objective measure. Not everyone feels shame about the same things, or in the same ways. As for why have sex in movies? Why not? Sex happens in real life, why pretend it doesn't in movies?
    dead one wrote: »
    The point is government/laws can't control sea of desires in youth. Desires follow no rules when they become hungry. I said, sex is corruption in the mind of a child, who doesn't know anything about sex. Some things require time to understand if you enforce those thing too early then it is dangerous. The consequence with which your society is suffering. See, point is very simple, it's very easy to bribe desires and what bribes desires is sex. Movies maker put these scene for business but as a result it completely destroy mind of youth / society. You feel no shame or different amount of shame, Isn't it corruption in concept of shame.

    The minds of youths need no help to be corrupted with sex, as I said before that comes from their god-given puberty. If you are so afraid of youths being corrupted by sex in movies then maybe they should be educated about sex in an open and honest manner before they see any movies?
    dead one wrote: »
    religion says.
    Nor take life - which Allah has made sacred - except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, we have given his heir authority (to demand qisas or to forgive): but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the Law). (17:33)
    So with this verse how can one think that they are religiously justified....

    The "except for just cause bit". Define "just cause" as defending your honour and lo and behold you get honour killings. I'm not saying I agree with it, but there is a lack of specificity that allows for it.
    dead one wrote: »
    It's philosophy you can make one thosand meaning, each will fit on my theory.

    Philosophy usually isn't so blatantly self contradicting. You cant enslave someone with freedom.
    dead one wrote: »
    Evolution is creation theory for religion of atheism. Atheism tells there is evidence which supports God.... .All life emerges from non intelligence source without any intelligent cause. Some part of humanity, were once chimps.

    Nope, still wrong, and now wrong about calling atheism a religion. Evolution has never said that humans where once chimps (it says that humans and chimps have a common ancestor) and atheism isn't a religion (do I even need to explain why?).


  • #90
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    dead one wrote: »
    That's corruption in concept of humiliation. The concept changes with corruption in mind. Heart gets sickness with increase in time. What corrupt minds!!!
    1. sex scenes
    2. girl friends/boyfriends
    3. Society/culture
    :)

    Or its because humiliation is an entirely human invention, without objective measure. There is no corruption of humiliation in one person not feeling humiliation for something that would humiliate another.


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  • #91
    dead one
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    But why should we believe you when you say that he is full of bias?
    where i said, you should believe me. I am just telling you my point of view, what you think that is your choice.
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    Or its because shame is an entirely human invention, without objective measure. Not everyone feels shame about the same things, or in the same ways. As for why have sex in movies? Why not? Sex happens in real life, why pretend it doesn't in movies?
    shame isn't an human invention, It's Built in program for human . These programs gets corruption with passage of time from viruses of society. To make smooth flow of these program you must follow manual.... Manual is quran -- word of God. I clearly see corruption in you concept of shame when you associate it with human. You won't feel shame by making someone sister as girlfried because there is corruption in you concept of shame. I will feel shame because i am following the manual... Sex happens in reall life, i agree but you won't feel good by doing sex in public. Answer me?
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    The minds of youths need no help to be corrupted with sex, as I said before that comes from their god-given puberty. If you are so afraid of youths being corrupted by sex in movies then maybe they should be educated about sex in an open and honest manner before they see any movies?
    Sex is always in minds. The films helps to corrupt their brain, corruption, when increased, needs no cure. The purpose for all this... Hijab is necessary for women, because it tells women who are they.
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    The "except for just cause bit". Define "just cause" as defending your honour and lo and behold you get honour killings. I'm not saying I agree with it, but there is a lack of specificity that allows for it.
    "Just cause" mean criminal/looters/corrupt people. Honor killer needs no just cause... A cause which is just in the view of majority... think for a moment.
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    Philosophy usually isn't so blatantly self contradicting. You cant enslave someone with freedom.
    Philosophy is self contradicting when you don't fully understand it. I ain't enslaving them, i am telling to free their corrupted will.
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    Nope, still wrong, and now wrong about calling atheism a religion. Evolution has never said that humans where once chimps (it says that humans and chimps have a common ancestor) and atheism isn't a religion (do I even need to explain why?).
    So what makes different. Isn't that what i am saying. Because chimps and humans share a matrilineal ancestor. So it makes no difference what i am saying. Atheism is a religion, which has it's belief system.


  • #92
    dead one
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    Or its because humiliation is an entirely human invention, without objective measure. There is no corruption of humiliation in one person not feeling humiliation for something that would humiliate another.
    if it is human invention, then if i slapped a human without any reason then all human shouldn't get humiliated. Try it.... Almost all people will be humiliated. It shows humiliation isn't human invention. It's built in software. Whose manufacturer is God.


  • #93
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    dead one wrote: »
    shame isn't an human invention, It's Built in program for human . These programs gets corruption with passage of time from viruses of society. To make smooth flow of these program you must follow manual.... Manual is quran -- word of God. I clearly see corruption in you concept of shame when you associate it with human. You won't feel shame by making someone sister as girlfried because there is corruption in you concept of shame. I will feel shame because i am following the manual... Sex happens in reall life, i agree but you won't feel good by doing sex in public. Answer me?

    If shame was a built in program for humans, then all human would feel it, and largely to the same degree. The fact that many dont feel shame for the same things indicates that its not. At the very least, its incredibly subjective. I dont feel shame in "making girlfriend of someone sister" because there is no reason to feel shame, (nearly) every woman is some-ones sister so where exactly does shame come into it?
    dead one wrote: »
    Sex is always in minds. The films helps to corrupt their brain, corruption, when increased, needs no cure. The purpose for all this... Hijab is necessary for women, because it tells women who are they.

    How does a film corrupt minds exactly? How were minds corrupted before movies?
    If the women were what the hijab tells them, then they wouldn't need to be told that, would they? They would already be that.
    dead one wrote: »
    "Just cause" mean criminal/looters/corrupt people. Honor killer needs no just cause... A cause which is just in the view of majority... think for a moment.

    So Islam wouldn't be just if it wasn't thought so in the view of the majority? Think about what you are saying before you post it.
    dead one wrote: »
    Philosophy is self contradicting when you don't fully understand it. I ain't enslaving them, i am telling to free their corrupted will.

    You said the West enslaves women with freedom. That is a contradiction.
    dead one wrote: »
    So what makes different. Isn't that what i am saying. Because chimps and humans share a matrilineal ancestor. So it makes no difference what i am saying. Atheism is a religion, which has it's belief system.

    There is a big difference between saying humans evolved from chimps and saying humans and chimps share an ancestor, that difference being that one is and one is right. You seem to have gotten it, though, so we can put that aside.
    Atheism has no belief system. It is a lack of belief.
    dead one wrote: »
    if it is human invention, then if i slapped a human without any reason then all human shouldn't get humiliated. Try it.... Almost all people will be humiliated. It shows humiliation isn't human invention. It's built in software. Whose manufacturer is God.

    :confused: Just because many people would get humiliated by one particular act wouldn't stop humiliation from being a human invention. It would just mean that there is agreement as to the act being humiliating. Not that being slapped would necessarily result in all people getting humiliated - many would just get angry or confused or scared instead.


  • #94
    dead one
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    If shame was a built in program for humans, then all human would feel it, and largely to the same degree. The fact that many dont feel shame for the same things indicates that its not. At the very least, its incredibly subjective. I dont feel shame in "making girlfriend of someone sister" because there is no reason to feel shame, (nearly) every woman is some-ones sister so where exactly does shame come into it?
    You have shame but not real shame . Your shame needs some polishing then you will feel shame in making some one's else sister as girlfriend. Right!!! You don't feel shame in "making girlfriend of someone sister" because you are brainwashed about height and status of women in a society. you prefer desires, we prefer honor/dignity. We prefer marriage, a system, which God has given us to feed our desires... You prefer the way of immodesty. That's why you feel no shame.
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    How does a film corrupt minds exactly? How were minds corrupted before movies?
    If the women were what the hijab tells them, then they wouldn't need to be told that, would they? They would already be that.
    see, corruption increases with increase in time. These movies, these scenes have been watched by youth since beginning. They practices what they learn from society/media. Are you not seeing practice of it around you. This is how it corrupts brain in long term. If the same society / media tells these children about by displaying women in good manner (hijab) then you wouldn't see what is happening around.
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    So Islam wouldn't be just if it wasn't thought so in the view of the majority? Think about what you are saying before you post it.
    Majority of people in the world believe in islam....
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    You said the West enslaves women with freedom. That is a contradiction.
    How, you can put freedom in a trap and slave whatever you like. You can bribe a slave in the of freedom, when he is hired,it cost of his freedom.
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    There is a big difference between saying humans evolved from chimps and saying humans and chimps share an ancestor, that difference being that one is and one is right. You seem to have gotten it, though, so we can put that aside.
    there is no difference.... If you think more about common ancestor you would get my point. why i used the word "chimps" for common ancestors
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    Atheism has no belief system. It is a lack of belief.
    "lack of belief" is a belief. For example i say i don't believe in God, that is my belief... the reason is simple as there is no evidence which directly approves/disapproves God. Religion say, this vast universe is evidence for existence of God.... You say on behalf of your belief, that this vast universe isn't evidence. Are you eyewitness of All this?.... The answer is no, it's your beliefs which makes you to believe what you prefer to believe...
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    :confused: Just because many people would get humiliated by one particular act wouldn't stop humiliation from being a human invention. It would just mean that there is agreement as to the act being humiliating. Not that being slapped would necessarily result in all people getting humiliated - many would just get angry or confused or scared instead.
    Are you saying humiliation is evolved.


  • #95
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    dead one wrote: »
    You have shame but not real shame . Your shame needs some polishing then you will feel shame in making some one's else sister as girlfriend. Right!!! You don't feel shame in "making girlfriend of someone sister" because you are brainwashed about height and status of women in a society. you prefer desires, we prefer honor/dignity. We prefer marriage, a system, which God has given us to feed our desires... You prefer the way of immodesty. That's why you feel no shame.

    Or its because there is no reason to feel shame in having a girlfriend? In getting to know someone before you marry them? I dont see how its more dignified to marry someone without knowing them.
    dead one wrote: »
    see, corruption increases with increase in time. These movies, these scenes have been watched by youth since beginning. They practices what they learn from society/media. Are you not seeing practice of it around you. This is how it corrupts brain in long term. If the same society / media tells these children about by displaying women in good manner (hijab) then you wouldn't see what is happening around.

    Like I said before, these scenes are not meant for youth (movies have age restrictions) not that youth need these scenes to have an ever increasing desire to have sex.
    dead one wrote: »
    Majority of people in the world believe in islam....

    You made an argumentum ad populum - you implied the just nature of act was dependent on home many people supported it. However we both know that you dont really believe that, for one you believe Islam is just despite the majority of people in the world not believing that (~1.5 billion muslims, therefore ~ 5 billion non muslims). My point was simply that people, right or wrong, will believe that what they are doing is just regardless of how many other people agree with them.
    dead one wrote: »
    How, you can put freedom in a trap and slave whatever you like. You can bribe a slave in the of freedom, when he is hired,it cost of his freedom.

    Then you are enslaving someone with the promise of freedom (in the future), but thats not what you said. Do you think that the west only promises freedom to women, but doesn't actually provide it?
    dead one wrote: »
    there is no difference.... If you think more about common ancestor you would get my point. why i used the word "chimps" for common ancestors

    There is a difference, one is right and one is wrong. Human ancestors may have similar to chimps, but that doesn't make them chimps.
    dead one wrote: »
    "lack of belief" is a belief.

    Lack of belief is not a belief, just like baldness isn't a hair colour. I'm going to put this down to English not being your first language that you would come out with something so clearly wrong.
    dead one wrote: »
    Religion say, this vast universe is evidence for existence of God.... You say [snip], that this vast universe isn't evidence, therefore you lack belief

    Fixed your post.
    dead one wrote: »
    Are you saying humiliation is evolved.

    Yes.


  • #96
    dead one
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    Or its because there is no reason to feel shame in having a girlfriend? In getting to know someone before you marry them? I dont see how its more dignified to marry someone without knowing them.
    Reason doesn't understand language of faith. Faith is to remain modest/obedient. Fornication has become a commonplace occurrence within your Youth community. It is ruining your community by corrupting the people. The relation like boyfriend unleashes base desires that, once allowed free-reign, will destroy families. There are many example of illegitimate and abandoned children, broken homes, abortions, sexual diseases. You can marry someone with knowing them but not extra knowing them.
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    Like I said before, these scenes are not meant for youth (movies have age restrictions) not that youth need these scenes to have an ever increasing desire to have sex.
    Like i said before, desires, when uncontrolled, follow no rules. What makes desires uncontrolled, the corruption in society. The society can't resist, what makes you think youth will resist. Are you telling fantasies.
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    You made an argumentum ad populum - you implied the just nature of act was dependent on home many people supported it. However we both know that you dont really believe that, for one you believe Islam is just despite the majority of people in the world not believing that (~1.5 billion muslims, therefore ~ 5 billion non muslims). My point was simply that people, right or wrong, will believe that what they are doing is just regardless of how many other people agree with them.
    You believe in something else and want me to believe in that thing. i said it only refute your argument of majority. i said, majority of people believe in islam... Does it make islam right, If not then your point isn't valid. Majority of people believe in Christianity, Is Christianity true according to your mind, if not then your argument isn't valid.
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    Then you are enslaving someone with the promise of freedom (in the future), but thats not what you said. Do you think that the west only promises freedom to women, but doesn't actually provide it?
    Freedom demands sacrifice. That is cost of freedom. The freedom in west isn't freedom, it's slavery of desires. The society as a whole isn't free from corruption/lust/immodesty/Sex. Every thought is imprisoned in dugeon of sex/girlfriend/boyfriend. Why because of immodesty.
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    There is a difference, one is right and one is wrong. Human ancestors may have similar to chimps, but that doesn't make them chimps.
    metaphorically, no difference. If human ancestor look like chimps, barbaric, non intelligent monster then it makes no difference. We believe God has given human with special kind of intelligence since the arrival of first human. The intelligence which place him above animals.
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    Lack of belief is not a belief, just like baldness isn't a hair colour. I'm going to put this down to English not being your first language that you would come out with something so clearly wrong.
    A thing which forces a belief to lack, is belief. you have no argument in this regard.
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    Religion say, this vast universe is evidence for existence of God.... You say [snip], that this vast universe isn't evidence, therefore you lack belief
    you didn't fixed it you helped me. the thing which makes you not to believe "author" in this whole picture (universe), is a belief. Simple, every picture supports author. You don't believe, therefore you have a belief which is based on wishfulthinking


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  • #97
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    dead one wrote: »
    Reason doesn't understand language of faith. Faith is to remain modest/obedient. Fornication has become a commonplace occurrence within your Youth community. It is ruining your community by corrupting the people. The relation like boyfriend unleashes base desires that, once allowed uneducated, will destroy families. There are many example of illegitimate and abandoned children, broken homes, abortions, sexual diseases. You can marry someone with knowing them but not extra knowing them.

    Fixed your post. Having boyfriends and girlfriends does not ruin communities or destroy families. Even if recreational sex is abundant amongst those dating. The problems arise with a lack of education or misinformation about sex and stds and relationships (eg the highest rates of teen pregnancies and stds in the USA are in the regions where abstinence is the only sexual eduction that the kids get). STDs and abandoned children are bad, but the way to deal with them is to educate teens, who are going to have sex anyway. Retarding their sexual development doesn't work, if it did then the hijab wouldn't be necessary any more. Hell, if this was a social caused issue, then the hijab wouldn't be needed at all in Islamic societies.
    dead one wrote: »
    Like i said before, desires, when uncontrolled, follow no rules. What makes desires uncontrolled, puberty. The society can't resist, what makes you think youth will resist. Are you telling fantasies.

    Fixed your post, again. These desires will be there regardless of what society you are in (presumably there was hijab in Mohammed's perfect society?). The way to deal with them is to teach people to control them regardless of what temptations are presented to them. We teach teens that taking what you want whenever you want it (stealing) is wrong without requiring everyone in society to hide all their tempting valuables, so is it really that hard to extend this to sexuality without requiring women to hide their bodies?
    dead one wrote: »
    You believe in something else and want me to believe in that thing. i said it only refute your argument of majority. i said, majority of people believe in islam... Does it make islam right, If not then your point isn't valid. Majority of people believe in Christianity, Is Christianity true according to your mind, if not then your argument isn't valid.

    You clearly dont understand my point. I never made an argument supported by popularity, you did. Read my post, and your post which I was quoting again.
    dead one wrote: »
    Freedom demands sacrifice. That is cost of freedom. The freedom in west isn't freedom, it's slavery of desires. The society as a whole isn't free from corruption/lust/immodesty/Sex. Every thought is imprisoned in dugeon of sex/girlfriend/boyfriend. Why because of immodesty.

    How is that slavery? Sexual desires is a part of who you are, just like your sense of humour, your taste in music etc. Its not slavery to listen to the music you like, or laugh a joke you find funny, so why is it slavery to be attracted to someone? And how is the muslim world not equally, or more, enslaved given that it has a physical manifestation of that slavery - the Hijab?
    dead one wrote: »
    metaphorically, no difference. If human ancestor look like chimps, barbaric, non intelligent monster then it makes no difference. We believe God has given human with special kind of intelligence since the arrival of first human. The intelligence which place him above animals.

    I'm happy to debate this with you, buts its miles off topic for this particular thread. We can open a new one if you want to continue.
    dead one wrote: »
    A thing which forces a belief to lack, is belief. you have no argument in this regard.

    you didn't fixed it you helped me. the thing which makes you not to believe "author" in this whole picture (universe), is a belief. Simple, every picture supports author. You don't believe, therefore you have a belief which is based on wishfulthinking

    Likewise, this is off topic, we can open a new thread for this (I would suggest in the A&A forum, as I'm sure they'd love to be told that atheism is a religion for the umpteenth time :rolleyes:)


  • #98
    dead one
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    Fixed your post. Having boyfriends and girlfriends does not ruin communities or destroy families. Even if recreational sex is abundant amongst those dating. The problems arise with a lack of education or misinformation about sex and stds and relationships (eg the highest rates of teen pregnancies and stds in the USA are in the regions where abstinence is the only sexual eduction that the kids get). STDs and abandoned children are bad, but the way to deal with them is to educate teens, who are going to have sex anyway. Retarding their sexual development doesn't work, if it did then the hijab wouldn't be necessary any more. Hell, if this was a social caused issue, then the hijab wouldn't be needed at all in Islamic societies.
    You aren't fixing my post but helping me, you are talking about material education. Material education make people selfish. I know you're talking about sex education. Let's talk about spiritual education. Islam provides spiritual which makes people to stop these silly acts. If you can't control yourself then nothing can control you. Desires follow no education unless they are under your control. To make desires under your control, you must be faithful to God.
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    Fixed your post, again. These desires will be there regardless of what society you are in (presumably there was hijab in Mohammed's perfect society?). The way to deal with them is to teach people to control them regardless of what temptations are presented to them. We teach teens that taking what you want whenever you want it (stealing) is wrong without requiring everyone in society to hide all their tempting valuables, so is it really that hard to extend this to sexuality without requiring women to hide their bodies?
    Islam makes desires to follow religion of nature. You said desires will be there but you forget when you overcome your desires, you will rule over desires. I mean islam also educate desires to follow rules. The hijab represents symbolic presentation of women in the society. You see your society symbolizes women as sex doll so what is wrong if islam displays women in a most modest manner.
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    You clearly dont understand my point. I never made an argument supported by popularity, you did. Read my post, and your post which I was quoting again.
    i understand but you didn't understand my advance approach. That's exactly what i am saying, the popularity, who supported you, comes under category of your faith. The same argument, if popularity believe Jesus is God, that doesn't mean truth as per your thinking.
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    How is that slavery? Sexual desires is a part of who you are, just like your sense of humour, your taste in music etc. Its not slavery to listen to the music you like, or laugh a joke you find funny, so why is it slavery to be attracted to someone? And how is the muslim world not equally, or more, enslaved given that it has a physical manifestation of that slavery - the Hijab?
    it's nature of wise to resist pleasures, only fool to slave to them. There is proper procedure to feed desires. If you don't follow proper procedure that's slavery. It is same as laws of society, the society which doesnt follow laws, that doesn't make it, ultimately a free society. I mean the consequence for not following the law, makes the society slave. Same is case of desires, desires when follow no rules, it creates a society of hypocrite. If i break a red signal, i am free with my desires, but it doesn't make society free.
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    Likewise, this is off topic, we can open a new thread for this (I would suggest in the A&A forum, as I'm sure they'd love to be told that atheism is a religion for the umpteenth time :rolleyes:)
    why don't you open, i don't feel free with bunch of athiests who delete my post as they have no answer for them. :P


  • #99
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    dead one wrote: »
    You aren't fixing my post but helping me, you are talking about material education. Material education make people selfish. I know you're talking about sex education. Let's talk about spiritual education. Islam provides spiritual which makes people to stop these silly acts. If you can't control yourself then nothing can control you. Desires follow no education unless they are under your control. To make desires under your control, you must be faithful to God.

    Except Islam provide no such thing. If Islam provided spiritual eduction sufficient to stop people having sex, then Islam would not require material obstacles (the hijab) and material threats (prison, lashes with canes etc.) to stop people having sex.
    dead one wrote: »
    Islam makes desires to follow religion of nature. You said desires will be there but you forget when you overcome your desires, you will rule over desires. I mean islam also educate desires to follow rules. The hijab represents symbolic presentation of women in the society. You see your society symbolizes women as sex doll so what is wrong if islam displays women in a most modest manner.

    This is just a repetition of points you already made, are you not going to respond to my point? How is it we can teach people to control their desire to take material things as and when they want (stealing) without requiring everyone to hide all their material goods, and yet we can't do the same with women and their bodies? Are you so lacking in control of you sexual desires that you can't resist them, as I assume you resist your material desires?
    dead one wrote: »
    i understand but you didn't understand my advance approach. That's exactly what i am saying, the popularity, who supported you, comes under category of your faith. The same argument, if popularity believe Jesus is God, that doesn't mean truth as per your thinking.

    Again, I never said anything about a "popularity" supporting me. You are not making any sense here whatsoever, and its got nothing to do with your "advanced approach".
    dead one wrote: »
    it's nature of wise to resist pleasures, only fool to slave to them. There is proper procedure to feed desires. If you don't follow proper procedure that's slavery. It is same as laws of society, the society which doesnt follow laws, that doesn't make it, ultimately a free society. I mean the consequence for not following the law, makes the society slave. Same is case of desires, desires when follow no rules, it creates a society of hypocrite. If i break a red signal, i am free with my desires, but it doesn't make society free.

    Is there nothing between blindly following your desire regardless of the consequences, and completely denying all existence of it? Because that seems to be how you see sexual desire. Its possible for people in a society to recognise their sexual desires, "feed" them in a way that is comfortable to whoever is involved, and not end up with anarchy? You know, much the same way people deal with their material desires? (like wanting a new car or tv or something). You end up with a society that is neither slave to their desires, nor slave to denying those desires.
    dead one wrote: »
    why don't you open, i don't feel free with bunch of athiests who delete my post as they have no answer for them. :P

    :confused: Why would I open a thread on something I dont agree with? Look, open a new thread if you want to discuss this, its off topic here.


  • #100
    dead one
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    Except Islam provide no such thing. If Islam provided spiritual eduction sufficient to stop people having sex, then Islam would not require material obstacles (the hijab) and material threats (prison, lashes with canes etc.) to stop people having sex.
    Are all people in the world muslim? Let's see what you got to answer this.
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    This is just a repetition of points you already made, are you not going to respond to my point? How is it we can teach people to control their desire to take material things as and when they want (stealing) without requiring everyone to hide all their material goods, and yet we can't do the same with women and their bodies? Are you so lacking in control of you sexual desires that you can't resist them, as I assume you resist your material desires?
    my point is same, Are all people in the world muslims
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    Again, I never said anything about a "popularity" supporting me. You are not making any sense here whatsoever, and its got nothing to do with your "advanced approach".
    it seems you've got the point.
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    :confused: Why would I open a thread on something I dont agree with? Look, open a new thread if you want to discuss this, its off topic here.
    you should it, because you aren't clearing how atheism isn't religion


  • #101
    oceanclub
    Registered Users Posts: 3,411 ✭✭✭oceanclub


    you should it, because you aren't clearing how atheism isn't religion

    If atheism is a religion, then not kicking a ball around is a sport.

    P.


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