Lecturing in 3rd Level

Bluehair · 09-12-2005 3:31am #1

Was just wondering could someone post their experiences as in lecturing at 3rd Level?

I'm considering going down this road and would appreciate some 'from the horses mouth' guidelines on the lifestyle/career progression/salary expectations early on and later in career etc. Thanks.

Tom Dunne · 09-12-2005 10:15am

I can only speak for the Institutes of Technology.

On paper, you need an honours degree plus three years post-grad experience. In reality, I think an MSc is essential. All the lecturers in my department have a masters.

If you are considering becoming a lecturer, try getting some part-time experience. I used to work shift, so on my days off, I managed to get some hours in an Institute of Technology. Keep an eye out in the papers around August/September - they are always looking for part-time staff. I was also fortuntate enough to be working as a technical trainer in an American multi-national, so that stood to me also.

I accept no job is perfect, but this is one job that is damn near it. You have to deliver a total of 18 hours per week in the classroom. Allow another 10-15 for preperation/correcting and you still have a very short week. You work approx. 35 weeks of the year, so from a lifestyle perspective, you really can't beat it. In the Institute I am in, you also have to deliver night courses, but for every hour after 6:00pm, it is counted as 1.5 hours, so you end up working less.

Salary starts off around 36,500 and there is an 11 point scale. After each year of service, you go up one step on the scale.

Any more questions, let me know.

WizZard · 09-12-2005 12:14pm

Is an honours degree essential?

What about degree -> industry experience -> taught Masters? (IT related)

Tom Dunne · 09-12-2005 3:02pm

WizZard wrote:

Is an honours degree essential?

That's what it says on Dept. of education blurb.

Private colleges may differ in what they look for,

WizZard · 09-12-2005 5:26pm

Bah.

Repli · 10-12-2005 10:57am

I'd love to be a lecturer too..

three years post-grad experience

Well I know that's not the case for the largest IT in Ireland (DIT), some of my lecturers went Degree->Masters->PHd->Lecturer and have no industry experience. A lot of people in the Masters course do part time lecturing and lab assistant work. The pay is very good too, pay scales for DIT are here http://www.dit.ie/DIT/hr/Salary_Scales/DECO4ScalesWeb.htm
Starting on 42,393 rising to 66,163 for Lecturer 1, with the max being 94,879 for Lecturer 3, does anyone know how long you have to be a lecturer to go from point to point on the scale?

Tom Dunne · 10-12-2005 12:04pm

In my experience, part-time lecturers can get away without having the full three years post-grad experience (or honours degree for that matter).

It's kinda' like "well you are not a real member of staff, so the rules don't really apply to you".

And Repli - the pay scales are the same for all Institutes of Technology. What may not be clear to you is that you go in as assistant lecturer level, then progress to lecturer level. So while it says pay scales for a lecturer start at 42,000, you won't walk in off the street at that level unless you have substantial experience or, as you mention, a PhD.

You go from point to point on the scale every year subject to various other criteria such as length of service, qualifications, etc. AFAIR, there are 11 points on the assistant lecturer scale, so it could potentially take 11 years to get to lecturer level.

Hitchhiker's Guide to... · 11-12-2005 3:20pm

I've lectured across the private college / I.T. / university sector while completing my PhD.

Regarding experience and education;

If you have a Masters - then (according to my knowledge of the Bologna process) you are regarded as qualified above the BA level; even if you haven't got a BA.

Private colleges will be more flexible regarding education; especially if you have 'real-life' experience. Most private colleges in Dublin (excluding the language schools) concentrate on business and IT. Would be hard enough to find work outside of that.

Both ITs and Universities have broadly the same standards. Extremely difficult at the moment to get a full-time job without a PhD. Obviously this depends on your other relevant experience and the area you are applying to lecture in; but i would say it is a near universal rule.

For part-time work it is usually sufficient to have a Masters and good work experience. Or to have a Masters and be writing your PhD. It would be very rare to get even part-time work in an IT or uni simply with an undergrad degree. There is way too much competition from better qualified people.

Tom Dunne · 11-12-2005 5:49pm

Roundtower2 wrote:

Both ITs and Universities have broadly the same standards. Extremely difficult at the moment to get a full-time job without a PhD. Obviously this depends on your other relevant experience and the area you are applying to lecture in

I thought all University jobs require you to either have, or be studying for, a PhD?

Hitchhiker's Guide to... · 11-12-2005 5:56pm

From the application forms i've been reading, it doesn't say that directly. Although it is possibly the case. Thought they generally require you to "be pursuing some form of relevant postgraduate studies".

Although, obviously, in actuality they require a PhD. Seems to be hard these days to get a lecturing position even with a near-completed PhD.

Hitchhiker's Guide to... · 11-12-2005 6:01pm

Tom - two quick questions for you given your work experience:

1) How does progression along the scale (e.g. for an assistant lecturer starting at the lowest point scale) actually happen? Is it standard progression for everyone or is it based on performance? If it is by performance, how is this assessed (e.g. student evaluation forms / publishing record / annual evaluation meetings by the Head of Department etc)?

2) At what level on the assistant lecturer scale would an applicant with a PhD and a few publications expect to start at? Surely it wouldn't be at the absolute lowest level, would it?

Thx

Tom Dunne · 11-12-2005 7:00pm

Roundtower2 wrote:

1) How does progression along the scale (e.g. for an assistant lecturer starting at the lowest point scale) actually happen? Is it standard progression for everyone or is it based on performance?

It's standard progression, i.e. you automatically progress regardless of performance.

Roundtower2 wrote:

2) At what level on the assistant lecturer scale would an applicant with a PhD and a few publications expect to start at? Surely it wouldn't be at the absolute lowest level, would it?

No, most certainly not. I can't find my contract at the moment, but I do recall some blurb about PhD holders going in at a higher level, something about not spending more than 3 years at assistant lecturer level, irrespective of the point on the scale. Have a dig around the Department of Education website, I know it's in there somewhere. I'll see if I can dig it out in the meantime.

astarte · 30-12-2005 12:16am

I have worked in the IT sector for the last 10 years and it is the best job. I would say that a PhD is necessary for pretty much anything in science and engineering, although possibly a masters with excellent work experience may get you into engineering.

when I started at the IT the position on the salary scale was largely dictated by the salary that you were earning in your previous job, not sure what it is now.

It is likely that anyone who gets a job in the IT's now will be employed at the AL grade (salary scales also on www.tui.ie) and has 18 contact hours with students a week, if employed at the Lecturer grade (v.difficult now) you have 16 contact hours a week. But it is tough in the first year or so if you have to prepare that many lectures, much more than a 40 hour week! in my first years there were many 11 and 12pm working days, but once you get into the swing of things it gets a lot easier.

one thing that hasnt been mentioned is the autonomy, in most cases your 'boss' isnt looking over your shoulder, as long as you are doing the hours and the students are happy, then the heads of departments dont tend to look over your shoulder much.

but basically most of us are in the job for the holidays, about 16-17 weeks a year.

go for it if you can

Bluehair · 30-12-2005 12:32am

Quick query here (and probably a thicko one at that) but I notice in the salarys offered for, say, a lecturer in Politics offer two scales (above bar/below bar).

The difference is quite significant, could someone explain what this is? Cheers.

projectmayhem · 30-12-2005 7:44pm

jebus there's a lot of money in this lecturing lark. you'd think they'd be able to teach properly (i'm in MOD EDIT..)

MOD: Please dont paste a whole departments lecturing staff as not being able to teach properly.

dudara · 30-12-2005 7:51pm

I worked two years as a part-time lecturer in the Applied Physics Department in the CIT teaching two hours a week on a night-course. The pay was excellent, and I've just received backpay from the two years to boot! At the time I was completing my PhD and I needed the extra money to keep going. Couldn't recommend a better job, though the thought of doing it full-time makes me shudder

Trotter · 30-12-2005 10:08pm

projectmayhem wrote:

jebus there's a lot of money in this lecturing lark. you'd think they'd be able to teach properly (i'm in MOD EDIT )

And the first ever lecturer bashing award goes to... projectmayhem.
You even had the idea to be accurate to a specific department in a specific college.

Mod No Like.

Im sure theres plenty of very good lecturers in the department you mentioned.

*yoda* · 19-01-2006 3:14pm

this may be a silly question but i was just wondering what the story is about tutoring? is this done while pursuing a masters only? would a taught masters of 18 months be considered for lecturing or would you really need a 3 year masters with experience added on? ok that turned out to be more than one question! cheers.

Hitchhiker's Guide to... · 19-01-2006 6:30pm

do you mean tutoring on a course (as support for the lecturer), or tutoring in a private capacity?

*yoda* · 19-01-2006 7:32pm

ya as a support for the lecturer in tutorials

pork99 · 21-01-2006 3:12pm

WizZard wrote:

Is an honours degree essential?

What about degree -> industry experience -> taught Masters? (IT related)

I think it would be better if they put less emphasis on an honours degree* and more on the path WixZard describes with recent and relevant industry experience given more weight. That's based on my own experiences across DIT, Athlone IT and Limerick IT where I began to suspect that most lecturers were there because they wanted the easy life which certainly would not be available to them in the private sector. They did not seem to have much of a grasp of the industries that their students would be going into having gone BA -> MA -> lecturing job.

(*btw I got a 1.1 hons myself so this opinion isn't based on jealousy)

Procrastinator · 21-08-2006 1:46am

Just completing my PhD in a UK university and was on a full academic scholarship...and I'm finding it hard to get work

After the PhD, that's a must and they won't even call you to interview without that now, You have to be published with at least three papers in peer reviewed journals.
you also have to have some teaching experience in University and many have the PG Cert in Uni education. Then they want you to prepare a lecture as part of the interview. This is especially true as the RAE's been done away with by Gordon Brown.
But Irish universities want top class reseachers, with good published papers.

Its hard to get the PhD finished on time and if you don't the Uni loses their research funding for the next three years, in the UK anyway. So you have to get your papers written before you lose the library facilities that only a good University Library can provide. Without a library, you're done for.

Anyway, its all pressure so don't do it unless you're obsessed and enamoured with the topic

Aido c · 23-08-2006 11:48am

Obviously when you apply to an IT, it is a public competition so there has to be measurable’s on there, 2.1 better than 2.2, PhD better than MSc etc. etc.

That said, I think that there is a push now to hire people with life experience. 10 years experience and at least a little international flavour goes a long way. They will and they do push you into MSc's & PhD's after you are hired, but this is stuff you have plenty of time for anyway, and at least your interests will have matured and gained valuable industry insight. Life experience is something they cannot give you so they are now looking for this when you come through the door.

They also want natural speakers, motivators, people who can grab and hold the attention of a room full of these new students.

There are a couple of things causing this change:
1) Student attendance - its crap right now, and they are not just blaming the students, they are saying - what is the lecturer doing, remember this is not second or primary school, you cannot just call the Garda if they don’t show up.

2) The internet - Information is more easily available weakening your hand if all you put forward is your research ability, information is everywhere now.

3) Look at your students, more independent, more demanding. Even turn on children’s TV in the morning, you will see 4 or 5 channels competing for their attention, juggling, singing, drawing and playing. Flashing graphics of animals and places from all corners of the globe. The kids sit there largely only mildly impressed. Try to picture this child in 15 years - how are you going to keep his attention?

3) Motivation - When I entered college, it was succeed or back to the farm, succeed or be unemployed, succeed or emigrate. Their motivation now a days is much more subtle, you have to convince them why they should become an accountant or technician, when they could walk out that door and in 3 months be earning a grand a week block laying or in a few years 45k a year being a Garda. Those jobs did not exist when I went into college.

4) Industry symbiosis - I cannot overstate this. They want to see lecturers working together with industry. You might be able to fool a room full of first year accountancy students into thinking you know your stuff. But in seconds a Managing director of a accountancy firm will figure you out. He will not want to see any of your graduates.

5) Money is key now, in the old days you might have earned 14k out of college; a company could afford to almost retrain the student. Now college graduates get a lot more, they need to be productive within 6 months of graduating. You need to work with industry to make this happen.

6) Class sizes are bigger now too to pay your wages.

Look, it’s a great job, don’t fret about whether you have a 2.1 or a 2.2 or 1.1 or 1.2, and don’t tumble into a PhD just for the sake of it. Certainly I would not suggest trying to go from a PhD straight into lecturing. Forget about lecturing for the sake of lecturing, use your single years to get out in industry and make a name for yourself. Try getting some international experience, if you have time do a taught MSc while you are at it. Then when you get married and settle down and quality of life becomes important again. Time with the kids etc., and then apply for the lecturing post. That life experience is gold dust when you are trying to grab the attention of a room full of kids. You just see all the little ears pop up. They are not stupid, they will see it in your eyes and they will believe you when you tell them "When I was a single man, I was working in London earning 60k a year as an accountant'' they will then want that, tell me what in a PhD can compare to that level of motivation.

Astarte said it above and I agree, there is no better job when you can do it. But when you cannot do it, you can’t do it. You can’t learn life experience out of a book, and then it’s a great opportunity of a good life wasted.

Procrastinator · 23-08-2006 3:51pm

Aido c wrote:

Obviously when you apply to an IT, it is a public competition so there has to be measurable’s on there, 2.1 better than 2.2, PhD better than MSc etc. etc.

That said, I think that there is a push now to hire people with life experience. 10 years experience and at least a little international flavour goes a long way. They will and they do push you into MSc's & PhD's after you are hired, but this is stuff you have plenty of time for anyway, and at least your interests will have matured and gained valuable industry insight. Life experience is something they cannot give you so they are now looking for this when you come through the door.

They also want natural speakers, motivators, people who can grab and hold the attention of a room full of these new students.

There are a couple of things causing this change:
1) Student attendance - its crap right now, and they are not just blaming the students, they are saying - what is the lecturer doing, remember this is not second or primary school, you cannot just call the Garda if they don’t show up.

2) The internet - Information is more easily available weakening your hand if all you put forward is your research ability, information is everywhere now.

3) Look at your students, more independent, more demanding. Even turn on children’s TV in the morning, you will see 4 or 5 channels competing for their attention, juggling, singing, drawing and playing. Flashing graphics of animals and places from all corners of the globe. The kids sit there largely only mildly impressed. Try to picture this child in 15 years - how are you going to keep his attention?

3) Motivation - When I entered college, it was succeed or back to the farm, succeed or be unemployed, succeed or emigrate. Their motivation now a days is much more subtle, you have to convince them why they should become an accountant or technician, when they could walk out that door and in 3 months be earning a grand a week block laying or in a few years 45k a year being a Garda. Those jobs did not exist when I went into college.

4) Industry symbiosis - I cannot overstate this. They want to see lecturers working together with industry. You might be able to fool a room full of first year accountancy students into thinking you know your stuff. But in seconds a Managing director of a accountancy firm will figure you out. He will not want to see any of your graduates.

5) Money is key now, in the old days you might have earned 14k out of college; a company could afford to almost retrain the student. Now college graduates get a lot more, they need to be productive within 6 months of graduating. You need to work with industry to make this happen.

6) Class sizes are bigger now too to pay your wages.

Look, it’s a great job, don’t fret about whether you have a 2.1 or a 2.2 or 1.1 or 1.2, and don’t tumble into a PhD just for the sake of it. Certainly I would not suggest trying to go from a PhD straight into lecturing. Forget about lecturing for the sake of lecturing, use your single years to get out in industry and make a name for yourself. Try getting some international experience, if you have time do a taught MSc while you are at it. Then when you get married and settle down and quality of life becomes important again. Time with the kids etc., and then apply for the lecturing post. That life experience is gold dust when you are trying to grab the attention of a room full of kids. You just see all the little ears pop up. They are not stupid, they will see it in your eyes and they will believe you when you tell them "When I was a single man, I was working in London earning 60k a year as an accountant'' they will then want that, tell me what in a PhD can compare to that level of motivation.

Astarte said it above and I agree, there is no better job when you can do it. But when you cannot do it, you can’t do it. You can’t learn life experience out of a book, and then it’s a great opportunity of a good life wasted.

I don't know th IT system at all. And it seems from the abuve that its quite different from the University system.
I also think the above refers to technical courses, i mean practical, task oriented, hands on stuff. Quite different from the pure academia, talking, reading and writing if you like of other courses such as law, arts, business etc.

The whole work-life experience element makes sense to me though, especially if you take into account how southern ITs are business, adn I mean practical oriented...cooperating with business, responding to the needs of the market etc. And this is excelent.

Re Universities though there even seems to be some diferences between the Irish and UK University systems.

But I'll just say this, I looked at an application form for a UK University last week and one of the minimum requirements was at least a 2:1. I was shocked as this is in addition to a PhD.
before I saw this, i thought that any degree was fine as long as the higher degree had been attained in addition.
They didn't even want someone who was near completion of a PhD. You had to be qulaified with publications.

I think the IT system is what it was like in Universities years ago...the older lecturers, some of them, are still teaching with just masters. Sometimes I've seen people given teaching contracts in Uni who were in their final or penultimate year of the PhD. yes they had to finish them, but time wasn't as big a factor.

I'va also seen people with Master's getting research assistant or tutorial contracts...and these were un-tenured and not lecturing contracts. These would have been for running seminars or tutorials for the Module or course co-ordinator, with little or no scope for content input.

From what i've heard though, anecdotal I know, the ITs are really good places to work.

Universities are research and therefore publication driven though. Your name in publications, perhaps co-authoring something with someone known is a big deal...

And yes, students don't turn up for seminars or tutorials or lectures in the Unis either. Although in the North at least, they keep a roll and if you miss a proportion of your attendance, the grant authority may discontinue your funding...that's scary and an incentive for students not mature enough to realise the importance of making their educations a success.

DC · 29-08-2006 9:34am

The landscape has changed in recent years, particularly with IT and Engineering. Fewer students are applying for these courses and because IT's and Universities hired lecturers during the tech boom, many of them without PhDs, the opportunities for full-time lecturing are limited. Nowadays a PhD is a pre-requisite at both uni and IT's. This is what senior lecturers and heads of departments are telling me.

I come from a computer science background and I made the decision that trying for a full-time lecturing position in computer science was a waste of my time. So, I switched my focus towards BIS / MIS, where students are applying in large numbers and it is a growing area within IT's and uni's (students want to be IT consultants not programmers or network engineers these days).

Luckily I have been accepted onto a PhD course in BIS in an Irish University and this includes a bursary for a couple of hours a week lecturing (no doubt with demonstrating added in too). I am reasonably optimistic that this will lead to full-time lecturing in the not too dim and distant future.

In my case I started off with a 2-year cert, have worked 10 years in industry (including 5 years running my own business), studied part-time for my diploma and BSc, got my first class honours along the way, and applied for a PhD directly without bothering with Masters. I figured that with the prerequisite being a PhD these days, doing a Masters would just waste a year or two. You will find that a taught masters these days is a waste of time - they are not interested in them - only research masters carry any weight these days. They want to see people suffer a bit first

Lecturing might be a cushy number, but you have to work damn hard along the way to get there these days.

Sarn · 13-09-2006 9:37am

Regarding pay scales in the Universities, there are different grades with points on each scale. A rough guide is a point for each year after your primary degree, you get an extra point for a PhD. This can depend on the available budget though and also on what type of experience you have.

Heisenberg. · 01-10-2006 12:55pm

This post has been deleted.

Enright · 01-10-2006 1:17pm

i worked in the it industry for 12 years, before i git sick of the companies i worked for closing down, during this time i added an honours BBS to my elecronics degree. I used my BBS to go teaching business in second level and i secured part time lecturing in third level. Since then i have secured an honours masters. If you are considering lecturing, you would want at least an honours primary degree, but in reality a masters is nearly a prerequisit. Most of the people i know that are trying to get full time positions in third level are lecturing part time while trying to get their phd's

dK1NG · 26-10-2006 1:15pm

Procrastinator wrote:

you also have to have some teaching experience in University and many have the PG Cert in Uni education. Then they want you to prepare a lecture as part of the interview. This is especially true as the RAE's been done away with by Gordon Brown.
But Irish universities want top class reseachers, with good published papers.

is the RAE really on the way out in England??? I was talking to s/o up in Queens last Feb, and there was a fear that it would even be adopted here in Ireland - much to a lot of peoples dismay....

The Scientist wrote:

I have an honours degree with 2.2, currently doing my masters for one reason only; to go lecturing.

Quick q - what area? From what I've seen recently, a PhD (or submission for viva) is a must to be called for interview in the uni's, but that may be diff for the ITs

compgeek · 20-09-2011 11:43pm

Hi Guys,

Sorry to re-open this thread after so many years but the education sector in this Country has very much changed and I would love some recent opinions.

I am very much interested in a career in lecturing and would love if someone could point me in the right direction.

I am currently studying for a M.Sc and would love if I could do some part-time lecturing / tutoring hours in an Institute of Technology.

How would I go about this?

Wantobe · 16-12-2011 7:28pm

Does anyone know what is the difference between Lecturer 1 payscale and Lecturer 2 and 3?

Printer · 19-12-2011 5:03pm

Very interesting and good thread.

I am also looking at going down the lecturing route.

On the subject of going straight from degree to Phd (skipping Masters) would universities look unfavourably on this? I mean would they prefer you to have both an MA and a PhD?

I agree that the life experience is really important and I feel I have built quite a lot of this experience now over past 5 years since qualifying from University.

On a slightly separate note - what is main difference between a structured PhD and a regular PhD? Are they both paid?

Finally do universities and ITs recognise qualifications from the Open University like Masters etc? I'm sure they recognise them but I mean do they stand up well in interview.

Galway · 28-12-2011 12:57am

Wantobe wrote: »

Does anyone know what is the difference between Lecturer 1 payscale and Lecturer 2 and 3?

The Assistant Lecturer scale is the one on which you will be placed if you do not have a Ph. D If you have a Ph.D and mee the criteria laid out below, you may apply to progress to The Lecturer L1 grade.

"An Assistant Lecturer with a Ph.D and relevant research experience may be considered for progression after three years continuous service. If successful such an assistant Lecturer may be placed on the first point of the lecturer scale and remain on that point until five years service have been completed. Progression for Assistant Lecturers shall be irrespective of whether a new post of Lecturer has been established or a vacancy at Lecturer level has occurred."

If you cannot progress as above then, you remain on the AL scale for 9 years then you can progress to the Lecturer L2 scale:

"Assistant Lecturers will progress to the grade of Lecturer on completion of one years’ service after having reached the maximum of the Assistant Lecturer scale subject to a minimum of five years continuous service in the grade subject to ability, experience, academic qualifications, scholarship and demonstrated performance. Possession of an appropriate defined post graduate qualification or equivalent shall normally be considered an essential requirement. Institutes may award incremental credit for previous service in the Assistant Lecturer grade in another Institute or University. The Institute may require five years service in the Institute before progression is considered."

The Ph.D holder would move to point 7 on the Lecturer L2 scale after reaching the top of the L1 scale.

The other lecturing scales in IoTS that exist are the senior lecturer SL1 (teaching) scale - usually an open competition post open to internal and external applicants.

The SL2 grade is usually held by Head of Depts and the SL3 grade by Heads of Schools. These are being lost now through many retirements and are not being replaced.

There are very few and likely to be very few full time permanent lecturing jobs in IoTs now and into the future.

Tom Dunne · 28-12-2011 5:47am

Galway wrote: »

There are very few and likely to be very few full time permanent lecturing jobs in IoTs now and into the future.

I have been trying to get a lecturing job in Ireland since 2000. No problem getting part-time, a few hours here and a few hours there. But nothing that will pay the mortgage.

Hence why I am no longer in Ireland.

gb153 · 02-01-2012 5:56pm

I worked as a contract lecturer in 2 different universities. Much different to working in an IT as it was literally the hardest job if you are trying to obtain a full time position.

Huge pressure to publish papers, to secure funding and to supervise postgrads. Then there is the teaching duties such as lectures, labs, supervising undergraduate projects etc. You will also be attending international conferences, open days, schools visits, staff meetings, workshops, seminars etc.

I loved the work but the hours are tough. It is one job where even if you want to be average at it you will be putting in seriously long hours weekdays and regularly at weekends also.

Very different to my initial perception before I started which was that a lecturer gives a few lectures per week and has the full summer off - couldn't be further from the truth!

Geuze · 04-01-2012 1:52pm

I would suggest that working in an IoT is different to a uni.

IoT

Fixed annual leave - 70 days approx - 14 weeks

Fixed days to start and finish, e.g. 20/25th June, bac on 1st Sept

Teaching 18 hrs pw on AL scale, 16 hrs pw on L scale

Progression from AL to L scale is automatic, assuming you have a postgrad and the time done

Less, or no pressure to publish

Uni

These days you must have a Ph.D., or be doing one.

Typically no set annual leave and typically no set days to start and finish

So more independence in that respect.

Teaching hrs are less than IoT, maybe 8-12 hrs pw

Progression from below-the-bar scale to higher payscale by achievement,
based on teaching, research, and other contributions

Huge pressure to publish

Trevster · 25-01-2012 4:59pm

Hi guys, quick question.

I started as an hourly paid Assistant Lecturer in an IT in the second semester of an academic year (January). Then in September I was moved to point one of the AL scale for the following full academic year up until the end of my contract and end of my employment.

I might now be getting a few hours in another IT. I am just wondering does my previous experience have any affect on the pay scale I start on now, or do I just go back to the normal AL Lecturer hourly rate?

Thanks. I'll find out soon enough anyway!

Wantobe · 28-05-2012 9:43pm

Another question on the points scale- my friend started last year on point 6 of the assistant lecturer scale. He has a ph.d and prev experience. Where does he go after point 8 of the assistant lecturer scale?

bundaegi · 29-05-2012 7:12pm

He can apply for progression to the Lecturer scale, as mentioned above:

Galway wrote: »

"An Assistant Lecturer with a Ph.D and relevant research experience may be considered for progression after three years continuous service. If successful such an assistant Lecturer may be placed on the first point of the lecturer scale and remain on that point until five years service have been completed. Progression for Assistant Lecturers shall be irrespective of whether a new post of Lecturer has been established or a vacancy at Lecturer level has occurred."

consultancy13 · 03-08-2016 11:29am

I am a retired environmental consultant touching 70 years of age and have recently been appointed as an associate lecturer in engineering health safety and environmental management in one of the IT's A lot of my career has been in the area of environmental training. Back in the 70's I was teaching academia for about 2 years
Not sure whether this role is for me

dingding · 04-08-2016 5:30pm

bundaegi wrote: »

He can apply for progression to the Lecturer scale, as mentioned above:

Probably as well to check with the college that you are interested in.

Tom Dunne · 04-08-2016 7:21pm

consultancy13 wrote: »

Not sure whether this role is for me

Sure what have you got to lose? Give it until Christmas to see how it goes.

mdd · 08-08-2016 9:52pm

consultancy13 wrote: »

I am a retired environmental consultant touching 70 years of age and have recently been appointed as an associate lecturer in engineering health safety and environmental management in one of the IT's A lot of my career has been in the area of environmental training. Back in the 70's I was teaching academia for about 2 years
Not sure whether this role is for me

I'm a lecturer in an IoT - did work in industry before. It is a fantastic job - if you like teaching you would really enjoy it.
Give it a go for a semester even

Sky King · 15-08-2016 12:11pm

I recently applied for an associate lecturing role. I think myself I would really like it but I would be really keen to hear from others in the same position if anyone else out there does this?

It's only a few hours a week on a part time course but i am self employed so flexible hours - i can make it work.

Tom Dunne · 15-08-2016 12:36pm

Sky King wrote: »

I recently applied for an associate lecturing role. I think myself I would really like it but I would be really keen to hear from others in the same position if anyone else out there does this?

It's only a few hours a week on a part time course but i am self employed so flexible hours - i can make it work.

So what do you want to know?

Sky King · 15-08-2016 2:03pm

Hi Tom - Just wondering if anyone else is working an industry job and doing this part time or would they be students / academics themselves and how they find the job generally - what kind of support they get from the department - any interaction from other tutors - what the students are like.

Forgive my ignorance on this matter but it's a bit of a departure for me. I know the subject matter pretty well and have great industry experience but have never lectured in a classroom or been employed by a college before. Just looking for some pointers I guess...

Tom Dunne · 15-08-2016 3:19pm

I've worked part-time as a lecturer before, while I worked in industry.

Here's a (very quick) brain-dump of things I learned:

- never bull****. Can't say that any clearer, not only will you be found out, but you will also lose the respect of the students. If you don't know, be straight up and say "I don't know for sure, but I'll find out for you"

- I always get fantastic response to referring the academic/theoretical concepts to real wold examples. In fact, I go off on tangents to say "while I worked in this company, here's how we would implement [concept X] in the real world".

- I did find support somewhat lacking. Very much "here's the material, now off you go". In pretty much every case, I had an excellent Head of School/Department who gave me great support and could put me in contact with the relevant person about any questions I had

- Get your hands on previous course material/notes/handouts and, most importantly, assessments (exams and anything else). Always put your own slant on them, while maintaining the integrity of the course/syllabus

- get familiar with key dates of the academic calendar

- get (intimately) familiar with policies and procedures

- buddy up with somebody who can advise you on above

- most of all, enjoy it. I always compare working in industry, being essentially a cog in a machine, to lecturing where you are actually making a difference to people's lives.

Any more questions, let me know.

Sky King · 15-08-2016 4:05pm

Great - Exactly sort of info i was looking for, so thanks a million Tom. Would be interested to hear input from anyone else in the forum too!

Also - if I get called for interview - any pointers there?

dingding · 15-08-2016 7:16pm

I think for the interviews, make sure that you know about the college, the sorts of courses, modules they do in the area, and any plans for mergers of institutes etc.. Often surprises me how little some applicants know about the college they are applying for. Look at things like the strategic plan, the presidents welcome web page (if it exists) so you can comment positively about how you are aligned to the culture / strategy of the institute.

Many have student centered type strategies, you could turn this to your benefit at the interview.

If you have a masters, have identified some doctoral level studies you might do, what your research interests are, who / where you might do your doctorate with. Be precise for the purpose of the interview like you have taught it through, dont say I might do one on Education but then again I might focus on some aspect of my discipline. It generally does not matter what, just be confident you have a plan. A good justification of an educational doctorate could give you the opportunity to align your self to key objectives of the institute.

If no one presents with a doctoral qualification, hiring managers will be looking for staff with potential to undertake doctoral qualifications.

If you have a doctorate, talk about possible publications etc....

It varies by area, some disciplines (Science and Social Sciences) would have a lot of doctoral candidates while in Business / Engineering it would be less so.

If you have to make a presentation:-
1. Dont go over time
2. Try and use it to sell your self
3. Do not clutter your slides, 3-4 lines is enough on any
4. Do not use any of the special effects such as getting stuff flying in from the side etc
5. Hand out a copy of your presentation at the start.
6. Read the job description and demonstrate how you meet the essential and as many of the desired qualifications as follows.
7. Dont underestimate some very good non teaching experience that you have.
8. Have a read here and similar http://9thlevel.ie/ to get a general overview of where education is at.

If you get a job I agree with everything that Tom says above. Try to make contacts in the discipline area who will share stuff with your.

Sky King · 16-08-2016 8:41am

Thanks a mil for your reply

dingding · 16-08-2016 5:19pm

Also when applying for the job look at the required and desirable qualifications / attributes.

The shortlisting should be carried out based on these, make sure that if you have something that is relevant to the job requirements that you mention it either in the CV and covering letter.

As an example in a different area, I know someone was shortlisting for a trades man, got hundreds of applicants, one of the essential requirements was a full clean driving license. All of the applicants had one but all the ones that had not explicitly said they had one were excluded.

I went for a job years ago in my own workplace, and when I asked for feedback on why I was not shortlisted, I was told I had the requirements but had not mentioned them in my application and therefore could not be scored.

Lecturing in 3rd Level

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