Low Irish IQ

scop · 06-08-2006 3:38pm #1

Hello all.

On another place I post Ive been told that the Irish average IQ is about 93 or so. The main argument for this comes from Richard Lynn. Now when I do some research on this I cannot for the life of me find any real sources to verify or contradict this!

Can anybody help me out. In the name of the Irish people

Great Britain: Research by Richard Lynn discussed in Ciaran Benson, "Ireland's 'Low' IQ," pp. 222-23 in Russell Jacoby and Naomi Glauberman (eds.), The Bell Curve Debate (New York: Times Books, 1995).

Ruu_Old · 06-08-2006 3:39pm

You're asking this to people on AH?

^CwAzY^ · 06-08-2006 3:40pm

nevr heard dat b4, i did hear 1 bout d blacks in nigeria r sumthin havin bout 40 lower IQ avg dan mst of d rst of d world..

metrovelvet · 06-08-2006 3:40pm

That's because all the bright ones emigrated.

sixpack's little hat · 06-08-2006 3:43pm

^CwAzY^ wrote:

nevr heard dat b4, i did hear 1 bout d blacks in nigeria r sumthin havin bout 40 lower IQ avg dan mst of d rst of d world..

QED

monkeyfudge · 06-08-2006 3:43pm

Isn't 90 pretty much the average IQ for humans in general? So it's nothing special if it's true.

Bottle_of_Smoke · 06-08-2006 3:43pm

^CwAzY^ wrote:

nevr heard dat b4, i did hear 1 bout d blacks in nigeria r sumthin havin bout 40 lower IQ avg dan mst of d rst of d world..

Second thread today I've read where you say something negative about Blacks.

Also on a thread about IQ I'd avoid getting your 13 year old sister to type for you. She seems to think you do it the same way her mates text her.

RuggieBear · 06-08-2006 3:44pm

There is an argument that the Irish IQ is lower by about 10 point generally as at some deep sub conscious level we all think in only Irish (the language of our ancestors) and as a consequence of speaking and thinking in English, part of our brain power is consumed doing the "translations"

Btw I think the Bell curve is a awful piece of research with some really dodgy methodology and even worse analysis.

Tusky · 06-08-2006 3:46pm

^CwAzY^ wrote:

nevr heard dat b4, i did hear 1 bout d blacks in nigeria r sumthin havin bout 40 lower IQ avg dan mst of d rst of d world..

dear christ. Close your boards.ie account please, do us a favour ?

Crucifix · 06-08-2006 3:46pm

monkeyfudge wrote:

Isn't 90 pretty much the average IQ for humans in general? So it's nothing special if it's true.

I thought 100 was the average by definition. I could be wrong though.

^CwAzY^ · 06-08-2006 3:47pm

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote:

Second thread today I've read where you say something negative about Blacks.

Also on a thread about IQ I'd avoid getting your 13 year old sister to type for you. She seems to think you do it the same way her mates text her.

yawn, dis is taken from richard lynn site

In 1991 I extended my work on race differences in intelligence to other races. I concluded that the average IQ of blacks in sub-Saharan Africa is approximately 70. It has long been known that the average IQ of blacks in the United States is approximately 85. The explanation for the higher IQ of American blacks is that they have about 25 per cent of Caucasian genes and a better environment.

The IQ of blacks in sub-Saharan Africa is a good deal lower at 67. Hence, the adverse environment in sub-Saharan Africa, which he regards as consisting principally of poor nutrition and health, contributes about 13 IQ points to the low IQ in sub-Saharan Africa.

taken from www.rlynn.co.uk

u cant call me a racist for quotin facts

Bottle_of_Smoke · 06-08-2006 3:49pm

RuggieBear wrote:

There is an argument that the Irish IQ is lower by about 10 point generally as at some deep sub conscious level we all think in only Irish (the language of our ancestors) and as a consequence of speaking and thinking in English, part of our brain power is consumed doing the "translations"

Btw I think the Bell curve is a awful piece of research with some really dodgy methodology and even worse analysis.

~I'd be interested to know who put forth that argument. I knew a Dutch guy living here so long he said he was translating more when speaking in Dutch. Surely that would imply the brain doesn't mind which language it thinks in once it's used to it.

Surely the english used by English people's ancestors would be very different to the english spoken today.

monkeyfudge · 06-08-2006 3:50pm

Crucifix wrote:

I thought 100 was the average by definition. I could be wrong though.

Well I think it's something like 80% have an IQ between 90 and 110.

Anything below 70 and you're looking at mental retardation though.

RuggieBear · 06-08-2006 3:50pm

^CwAzY^ wrote:

u cant call me a racist for quotin facts

They are not facts. They are his interpretations of his woeful research.

^CwAzY^ · 06-08-2006 3:52pm

dats jus u sayin its woeful, sure ders lots of ppl who agre wit him

Wertz · 06-08-2006 3:52pm

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote:

Second thread today I've read where you say something negative about Blacks.

Also on a thread about IQ I'd avoid getting your 13 year old sister to type for you. She seems to think you do it the same way her mates text her.

...and you were the one slating the Herald for missing satire?

Or is this deeply deeply hidden sarcasm?

RuggieBear · 06-08-2006 3:53pm

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote:

~I'd be interested to know who put forth that argument. I knew a Dutch guy living here so long he said he was translating more when speaking in Dutch. Surely that would imply the brain doesn't mind which language it thinks in once it's used to it.

Surely the english used by English people's ancestors would be very different to the english spoken today.

It was actually something i heard in a lecture years ago. Personally I think it's a pile of yak **** ( for the very reasons you put forward) but then it isn't my field of research and i know very little about it.

scop · 06-08-2006 3:53pm

Ruu wrote:

You're asking this to people on AH?

I didnt know where else to put it :eek:

scop · 06-08-2006 3:53pm

monkeyfudge wrote:

Isn't 90 pretty much the average IQ for humans in general? So it's nothing special if it's true.

Anything lower than a 100 is considered below average. 93 is quite low for a developed country.

scop · 06-08-2006 3:54pm

RuggieBear wrote:

There is an argument that the Irish IQ is lower by about 10 point generally as at some deep sub conscious level we all think in only Irish (the language of our ancestors) and as a consequence of speaking and thinking in English, part of our brain power is consumed doing the "translations"

Btw I think the Bell curve is a awful piece of research with some really dodgy methodology and even worse analysis.

The Irish thing is interesting, can you remember where you heard it. I know the Bell Curve is dodgy and so is Lynn but I cant find anything to contradict his finding

scop · 06-08-2006 3:55pm

RuggieBear wrote:

They are not facts. They are his interpretations of his woeful research.

Can you point me in the direction of anything that would show his interpetations are shoddy etc?

DonkeyStyle \o/ · 06-08-2006 3:56pm

RuggieBear wrote:

at some deep sub conscious level we all think in only Irish

This is lies... I've spoken with my subconscious while on LSD and he doesn't speak Irish.
lol though, he was so freaked out I knew he was there.

:eek:

NB. Drugs r bad mmkay.

^CwAzY^ · 06-08-2006 3:58pm

scop wrote:

Can you point me in the direction of anything that would show his interpetations are shoddy etc?

Also interested in this, wouldnt hold my breath tho as he has already said

but then it isn't my field of research and i know very little about it.

the Shades · 06-08-2006 4:02pm

Please learn how to type in English... oh really? well if I have to... Cwazy, I think you'll find your arguments might hold more weight if they presented in the correct manner.

On the plus side if the Irish average is 93 I'm well above that

RuggieBear · 06-08-2006 4:02pm

Tbh, I can't. I studied a good bit on IQ and epistemology in college and came across these guys research and a lot of papers arguing against their methods and results but i couldn't tell you which journals to start looking for (I suppose you could try the dept of sociology in Trinity College)

scop · 06-08-2006 4:06pm

RuggieBear wrote:

Tbh, I can't. I studied a good bit on IQ and epistemology in college and came across these guys research and a lot of papers arguing against their methods and results but i couldn't tell you which journals to start looking for (I suppose you could try the dept of sociology in Trinity College)

Ok fair enough, thanks for the help.

RuggieBear · 06-08-2006 4:10pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve

some useful links there arguing the validity of the methods used within the bell curve by murray. Alot of them would be useful in arguing against the whole low Irish IQ too

I suppose specifically that evidence showing heritability of IQ does not indicate a genetic origin to group differences in intelligence

Dagnir Glaurung · 06-08-2006 4:17pm

According to this we have an IQ of 99...can't vouch for the reliability of the site though. This says the same thing

Terry · 06-08-2006 4:26pm

i have no idea what my iq is and i don't really care.
i have no desire to join mensa just because i can.

TomCo · 06-08-2006 4:54pm

julep wrote:

i have no idea what my iq is

I know mine, its awesome.

Giblet · 06-08-2006 5:03pm

^CwAzY^ wrote:

nevr heard dat b4, i did hear 1 bout d blacks in nigeria r sumthin havin bout 40 lower IQ avg dan mst of d rst of d world..

WHAT THE **** IS THIS! jesus, where did I put my English-Retard dictionary.

BlitzKrieg · 06-08-2006 5:03pm

Dagnir Glaurung wrote:

According to this we have an IQ of 99...can't vouch for the reliability of the site though. This says the same thing

ahh no wonder...look they took the test in dublin.

Raphael · 06-08-2006 5:08pm

"IQ is nothing more than an approximate measure of your ability to do IQ tests"

Hagar · 06-08-2006 5:13pm

Don't we all have Neanderthal like brows, protruding chins and knuckles which drag on the ground as we lope, ape-like, along?

anthony4335 · 06-08-2006 5:15pm

All tests are a measure of knowledge and are subjective in nature to the limit on the questions.
And to look into how an IQ test is measured ,including all factors and all the rest that usually goes with stats ,would give you a migraine.
As with all figures you can make them say what you like .Like that test that had Ireland at 99.3 ,used Dublin only (I am assuming the city) , 1 million out of 4, an urban environment. Totally biased.

darkman2 · 06-08-2006 5:16pm

Giblet wrote:

WHAT THE **** IS THIS! jesus, where did I put my English-Retard dictionary.

'nevr heard dat b4, i did hear 1 bout d blacks in nigeria r sumthin havin bout 40 lower IQ avg dan mst of d rst of d world..'

I think it translates into English as:

'Never heard that before, i did hear one about the blacks in Nigeria or something having about 40 lower IQ average then most of the rest of the world'

Hey could that be construed as 'racist'?

Dagnir Glaurung · 06-08-2006 5:18pm

scop wrote:

Can you point me in the direction of anything that would show his interpetations are shoddy etc?

At the bottom of the second page of the attachement it claims that Lynn only have evidence for 81 national IQs and they guessed - sorry, estimated - the other 104. Does that count as shoddy interpertation?

RuggieBear · 06-08-2006 5:18pm

text speak is colloquially known as retard speak on Boards.

_blank_ · 06-08-2006 5:20pm

I've done a search of that users previous posts, and it looks to me like that account has been used by someone who is not that user.

scop · 06-08-2006 5:21pm

Dagnir Glaurung wrote:

At the bottom of the second page of the attachement it claims that Lynn only have evidence for 81 national IQs and they guessed - sorry, estimated - the other 104. Does that count as shoddy interpertation?

Thanks thats perfect

Sangre · 06-08-2006 5:21pm

Scarr and Weinberg (1976) looked at black children, who at an early age, had been adopted into white middle-class families. They discovered the mean IQ of these children was 110, which was at least 120 pointsa above the national average for black children, suggesting a strong correlation between environment and IQ.

Hmm, I wonder what that says about IQ tests.

Dagnir Glaurung · 06-08-2006 5:22pm

scop wrote:

Thanks thats perfect

Just doing my duty as a true Irishman *tear*

GLaDOS · 06-08-2006 5:28pm

Sangre wrote:

They discovered the mean IQ of these children was 110, which was at least 120 pointsa above the national average for black children

Typo or Black children have -10 iq???

Dudess · 06-08-2006 5:32pm

Wertz wrote:

...and you were the one slating the Herald for missing satire?

Or is this deeply deeply hidden sarcasm?

Don't think there's any satire on ^CwAzY^'s part.

And ^CwAzY^, this is on the After Hours charter: Posting in "rtrd" - Using txtspk n ur psts is cnsdrd been rlly stpd cuz u hv qwert kbd n ur pc so xpct 2 b wrnd. Please don't do this, this is not a bannable offence but repeat offenders might be "asked" to take a break from posting.

Terry · 06-08-2006 5:32pm

Dagnir Glaurung wrote:

At the bottom of the second page of the attachement it claims that Lynn only have evidence for 81 national IQs and they guessed - sorry, estimated - the other 104. Does that count as shoddy interpertation?

the last time i checked, there was about 300 countries in the world.
yet more flaws in his work.

Sangre · 06-08-2006 5:52pm

There is nowhere near 300 countries in the world. Most people usually agree on 193.

constitutionus · 06-08-2006 6:02pm

to be honest IQ tests are a load of bollocks and just really and excuse for some people to act all elitist. so much of em depend on actual education, what if you never went to school in your life? just cause you were never taught pythagoris's theroem (ok i know i spelled it arse ways, im dying with a hangover) doesnt mean you dont have the intelectual capability do preform it yet none of that is never taken into account. when you consider the state of africa in general its bloody obvious it'd look like theyve got lower intelligence when in reality its nothing of the sort. remember boys and girls theres only .01% genetic difference between you and everyone else on the planet so the idea different "races" are thicker than others is utter ****e.
lets remember who invented these tests, if we had to take a test created by third world countries focusing on how to survive in those areas of the world im pretty sure we'd come out looking like retards, after all how many of us actually know how to farm?

edit* by the way i checked wikipedia and they state theres 243 countries . that said i think julep, is right. i seem to remember a news bulliten a few weeks back on the 300TH recognised country, for the life of me i cant remember its name but the figure was 300. duh just rememberd it was montenegro when they voted to split from serbia!

Bottle_of_Smoke · 06-08-2006 6:20pm

^CwAzY^ wrote:

yawn, dis is taken from richard lynn site

taken from www.rlynn.co.uk

u cant call me a racist for quotin facts

What's your point? Read my post again & you'll see all I posted in the first part was indisputable fact.

"That's the second time today I've seen you post something negative about blacks"

I never said you were wrong. You're probably right because in areas of poverty the IQ drops. I do however think you'd be somewhat surprised at the results from an IQ test on black children brought up in middle-class Ireland. The only difference between you and a black person is the level of seratonin you produce. Same species I'm afraid.

I never called you a racist. However the fact that you thought I accused you of being a racist means it's likely you thought your comments are racist.

Seeing as you originally made them I'm fairly sure you're a racist.

The second part of my post was a sarcastic insult toward the way you type your posts.

Wertz wrote:

...and you were the one slating the Herald for missing satire?

Or is this deeply deeply hidden sarcasm?

Were you quoting the right person? I mean I don't actually think his sister's typing his posts. I don't know if he has a sister. I don't even know if he's a he.

Or are you saying his textspeech is satirical?

In the other thread I was slating people who don't get satire. The herald's headline was a good example. Though in fact they more than likely know better, just wanted a reactionary headline.

metrovelvet · 06-08-2006 6:28pm

If you go into areas of poverty you will find lower IQs probably from basic malnourishment.

If you go into areas of Venezuela, where the poverty is so bad that mothers cook pasta, eat the pasta themselves and feed the water the pasta was cooked in to their children, to the effect that there is severe brain damage and underdevelopment. If you take this as a sampling, you will come out with "hispanics are half brain dead," which is just inaccurate.

Im not familiar with these stats or the dates the info was gathered, but I can remember visiting Ireland in the 80s and I saw a lot of rotten and missing teeth, and I still see it - I still see bad skin and unhealthy children. A diet of crisp sandwiches does not a genius make.

Bottle_of_Smoke · 06-08-2006 6:37pm

metrovelvet wrote:

If you go into areas of poverty you will find lower IQs probably from basic malnourishment.

If you go into areas of Venezuela, where the poverty is so bad that mothers cook pasta, eat the pasta themselves and feed the water the pasta was cooked in to their children, to the effect that there is severe brain damage and underdevelopment. If you take this as a sampling, you will come out with "hispanics are half brain dead," which is just inaccurate.

Im not familiar with these stats or the dates the info was gathered, but I can remember visiting Ireland in the 80s and I saw a lot of rotten and missing teeth, and I still see it - I still see bad skin and unhealthy children. A diet of crisp sandwiches does not a genius make.

Exactly, and if you're a racist you can turn a blind eye to that sort of thing

aidan24326 · 06-08-2006 6:37pm

RuggieBear wrote:

There is an argument that the Irish IQ is lower by about 10 point generally as at some deep sub conscious level we all think in only Irish (the language of our ancestors) and as a consequence of speaking and thinking in English, part of our brain power is consumed doing the "translations".

Probably the daftest thing I've ever read on this site. I hope you're only joking.

Btw I think the Bell curve is a awful piece of research with some really dodgy methodology and even worse analysis

Not sure how accurate it is in relation to IQ measurement, it does appear to at least give a good approximation. But it's validity and importance in many other fields has been well demonstrated.

Low Irish IQ

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