In over my head!!!

Ruosullivan · 16-09-2010 12:10pm #1

I've been "recruited" to help solve this issue for a friend with a small business.

Long story short, SBS2003 running exchange. Everything works pretty well (except certificate issues!) but their broadband is 1mb. After weeks of nagging ISP to upgrade the line to 24mb, they have finally done so on another line.

Every attempt to change over to the new modem/line has failed. Internet access is fine but all incoming mails are blocked and outgoing mails are very slow (1 - 2 hours).

I've opened all of the ports nessesary and even tried 3 differnent modems. (2x BT voyager 2110 & 1 linksys).

The original line is fixed IP setup with an old ericsson modem but it's only ADSL. NAT is disabled on it and it's plugged directly into a wireless router which is configured with the port forwarding.

The new line is PPoE with fixed IP and of course a different DNS. I've tried it with to correct port forwarding but no joy.

I've tried it with NAT disabled........and no joy

I've tried it with NAT disabled and plugged into the pre-configured wireless router (after changing the WAN settings to match)...... and no joy

Am i missing something or should i retire, crawl under a rock and never touch a computer again!!!!!

bhickey · 16-09-2010 12:26pm

Ruosullivan wrote: »

e new modem/line has failed. Internet access is fine but all incoming mails are blocked and outgoing mails are very slow (1 - 2 hours).

Well the fact that you have Internet access is a start and as long as the new Internet IP is static then you've just got the firewall stuff to figure out.

How do mean that inbound e-mails are blocked? I'd think that you're on a different Internet IP now so external e-mail servers will have to deliver to this new IP. You'd need to change the domain MX records for that.

Jaden · 16-09-2010 12:33pm

Find out who hosts your DNS records, have them modify the DNS MX record to be your new external IP. Open ports 25,110,143 and any others you need.

Ruosullivan · 16-09-2010 12:36pm

bhickey wrote: »

Well the fact that you have Internet access is a start and as long as the new Internet IP is static then you've just got the firewall stuff to figure out.

How do mean that inbound e-mails are blocked? I'd think that you're on a different Internet IP now so external e-mail servers will have to deliver to this new IP. You'd need to change the domain MX records for that.

MX record..............sweet jesus....how did i not think of farggle rockin mx record!!! I'll contact the hoster...........test it and post my reply from under my rock

Mena · 16-09-2010 12:38pm

It could also take a while for the MX to propogate so give it a few hours (day).

Ruosullivan · 16-09-2010 3:59pm

THANKS Mena & Jaden.

I won;t get a chance until next week to do this, but i'll let you know how it goes................from under my rock

Static M.e. · 16-09-2010 4:12pm

Also make sure you have a Static IP on the new line. Saves everyone a lot of trouble

Ruosullivan · 16-09-2010 4:22pm

Static M.e. wrote: »

Also make sure you have a Static IP on the new line. Saves everyone a lot of trouble

That's what makes this such an appalling mistake.....i remembered to get the fixed IP when i ordered the new line….. Knowing it’s needed….. but I was told that the BT Voyager 2110 won’t work with SBS2003, so concentrated on that, ordered a new modem from BT……….and waited 2 weeks for that……….and it was another voyager 2110 so when it didn’t work i bought a nice simple Netgear DM111p………but you can’t disable dhcp on a PPoE line with this model……………ordered a nice fancy Linksys………and it still didn’t work! I spend so much time looking for a complicated problem I had completely forgotten about the hoster pointing to the other IP……

ressem · 17-09-2010 3:07pm

You've checked that the existing MX entry points directly at the existing server/router, and not at an external spam filter?
If it points at an external filter, then you'll have to change the address using the spam filter's interface, rather than the MX.

You might also want to check whether the initial installer has set an SPF text record in the domain's DNS entry.
If so it'll need to be updated with the new IP address, otherwise some outgoing mail might be prone to being treated as spam.

corkcomp · 21-09-2010 8:25pm

start by re-running the icw and updating with new info such as public IP (if different) dns and router ip .. that way ISA will also be updated for you via the wizard

Ruosullivan · 28-09-2010 10:35am

Thanks everyone, it went pretty smoothly; however there is ONE BIG problem!!

Neither IMAP or POP3 work from within the building! Bring your laptop home, everything works great. Bring it into work and error connecting

Ports are open

corkcomp · 28-09-2010 10:48am

Ruosullivan wrote: »

Thanks everyone, it went pretty smoothly; however there is ONE BIG problem!!

Neither IMAP or POP3 work from within the building! Bring your laptop home, everything works great. Bring it into work and error connecting

Ports are open

you need to enable pop and imap as exceptions on the ISA firewall client

Ruosullivan · 28-09-2010 11:04am

corkcomp wrote: »

you need to enable pop and imap as exceptions on the ISA firewall client

Started "Repair Internet & Email Settings"
Ran through ICW
Added acceptions for pop3 (110) & IMAP (143)

still no joy

Jumpy · 28-09-2010 11:10am

ISA has a monitoring option. Monitor the traffic while trying to connect to POP3 and identify the blocking rule. Then add an allow rule for that traffic.

I havent used SBS so not sure if its the same.

Jumpy · 28-09-2010 11:11am

Also what IP are you using to connect to POP3 when inside the building? The internal address of the server or the external?

Remember ISA has three default Networks. Internal, External and Local Host. The rules must specify which direction the traffic is coming from.

corkcomp · 28-09-2010 11:13am

Ruosullivan wrote: »

Started "Repair Internet & Email Settings"
Ran through ICW
Added acceptions for pop3 (110) & IMAP (143)

still no joy

those settings apply to the firewall on server though / packet filter.. you need to allow the clients access also (hard to explain but different rule sets apply) - see attached ..

Ruosullivan · 28-09-2010 11:38am

Jumpy wrote: »

Also what IP are you using to connect to POP3 when inside the building? The internal address of the server or the external?

Remember ISA has three default Networks. Internal, External and Local Host. The rules must specify which direction the traffic is coming from.

The ip address for the users are dhcp assigned, gateway is the modem. DNS & WINS are the server IP (192.168.0.1)

Everthing worked fine until i changed the modem and setup on the new line, so a new WAN IP and DNS were assigned through ICW yesterday.

Ruosullivan · 28-09-2010 11:54am

corkcomp wrote: »

those settings apply to the firewall on server though / packet filter.. you need to allow the clients access also (hard to explain but different rule sets apply) - see attached ..

I don't have access to any firewall setting other than assigning a port. if i choose "Configure Firewall" in server managment it forces me to go through the wizard. In there, i can only add custom services and choose my port.

I really appreciate yours and Jumpys help, and please don;t give up on me just yet

Ruosullivan · 28-09-2010 12:06pm

What about using the POP3 connector Manager??

Ruosullivan · 28-09-2010 12:16pm

Ruosullivan wrote: »

What about using the POP3 connector Manager??

never mind!!!!

I'm stumpted....... i can't get my head around the fact that everything works externally! especially as everything worked on the old line/modem setup

Jumpy · 28-09-2010 12:26pm

Can you pm me the ruleset of the ISA server?

Dont post it here, its not a very secure thing to do.

Jumpy · 28-09-2010 12:28pm

It should look like this.

Of course, it may not on SBS. As I said, I have never used it.

Ruosullivan · 28-09-2010 12:31pm

Jumpy wrote: »

Can you pm me the ruleset of the ISA server?

Dont post it here, its not a very secure thing to do.

ISA Server is not installed!

Jumpy · 28-09-2010 12:32pm

Sorry I thought it was part of SBS.

Jumpy · 28-09-2010 12:33pm

When you connect to POP3 inside the building, do you use the same target IP as you would from outside?

Ruosullivan · 28-09-2010 12:34pm

Jumpy wrote: »

Sorry I thought it was part of SBS.

only if your willing to part with the best part of a grand

Jumpy · 28-09-2010 12:34pm

Its a great firewall for small enterprises though. Super simple.

Ruosullivan · 28-09-2010 12:51pm

I could download a free trial; however i'd be worried everything would stop working at the end'o'freebie rather than limit my access!

There a 68 critical updates for the server so i'm going to update it, restart and see if that does anything; although i'm grasping at straws now!

If that fails, i'll download the trial of ISA

Jumpy · 28-09-2010 12:58pm

No, dont go that far.

Can you answer the above question about POP target IPs

Ruosullivan · 28-09-2010 1:17pm

Jumpy wrote: »

When you connect to POP3 inside the building, do you use the same target IP as you would from outside?

I'm not sure, do you mean the IP assigned by the ISP?

Jumpy · 28-09-2010 1:50pm

No. When you connect to your mail server to get POP and IMAP you specify an IP address or host name.

Ruosullivan · 28-09-2010 1:54pm

Jumpy wrote: »

No. When you connect to your mail server to get POP and IMAP you specify an IP address or host name.

a hostname, mail.*******.ie

I've tried the wan ip but i get the same message.

Jumpy · 28-09-2010 2:00pm

What is the message?

Ruosullivan · 28-09-2010 2:03pm

Jumpy wrote: »

What is the message?

Log onto incoming mail server (POP3): Outlook cannot connect to your incoming (POP3) e-mail server. If you continue to receive this message, contact your server administrator or Internet service provider (ISP).

Send test e-mail message: Outlook cannot connect to your outgoing (SMTP) e-mail server. If you continue to receive this message, contact your server administrator or Internet service provider (ISP).

Ruosullivan · 28-09-2010 2:32pm

Seeing as the only server settings that were changed were through ICW, is it possible the problem lies elsewhere?

Here's a quick run through of what i did yesterday.

1) Had domain host change mx records to new fixed WAN IP Address supplied by ISP
2) Changed modem and configured Port forwarding to match old router
3) Ran ICW and input ISP provided IP address and new DNS settings

All computers that use exchange work fine

also

The hoster just notified me that the IP address was not responding to ICMP pings...........could this be related

Jumpy · 28-09-2010 2:59pm

No. Your router will block ICMP by default. As long they can connect to your SMTP server on port 25 then your connection is up.

You have tried downloading POP3 mail using the LAN address? 192.168.x.x?

Ruosullivan · 28-09-2010 3:15pm

Jumpy wrote: »

You have tried downloading POP3 mail using the LAN address? 192.168.x.x?

That works, but that means that it won't work outside the network!!

Jumpy · 28-09-2010 4:00pm

Can PCs on the LAN access the internet?

Jumpy · 28-09-2010 4:04pm

Ruosullivan wrote: »

That works, but that means that it won't work outside the network!!

Your DC is a DNS server yes?

When the PCs are given an address internally by DHCP do they have their DNS server set to the SBS server?

I am beginning to think it might be your internal DNS still hanging onto the old Public IP of your router.

Ruosullivan · 28-09-2010 4:04pm

I've setup two outlook profiles for those who use their computer out of the office.

It's not ideal but it'll have to do for the moment. I've been doing everything remotely; however i'm going to the premises later in the week and i'll stick the old line&modem setup on to see if it works. if it does, i'll happily blame the BT Voyager 2110

I'm extreeemly grateful of your time and patience

Jumpy · 28-09-2010 4:07pm

From one of the PCs on your LAN that isnt working with POP3 try running the following command from a DOS window.

nslookup externalhostname

where externalhostname is the host name that you usually use for pop3.

See if the IP matches what you expect (ie your newly assigned IP from your ISP)

Ruosullivan · 28-09-2010 4:12pm

Jumpy wrote: »

Your DC is a DNS server yes?

When the PCs are given an address internally by DHCP do they have their DNS server set to the SBS server?

I am beginning to think it might be your internal DNS still hanging onto the old Public IP of your router.

DHCP assigns the server IP as the DNS settings.

I've put the DNS settings manually via ICW twice now, how would i check to see if their being used???

despite this, e-mail via blackberry, pop3 & imap from outside the network are fine

Ruosullivan · 28-09-2010 4:22pm

Jumpy wrote: »

See if the IP matches what you expect (ie your newly assigned IP from your ISP)

ran on the server and another pc, came up with witht he correct WAN IP on both

Jumpy · 28-09-2010 4:32pm

Ok so something is stopping your internal machines getting access to your Public address.

Can they access the internet normally?

Ruosullivan · 28-09-2010 4:52pm

Jumpy wrote: »

Ok so something is stopping your internal machines getting access to your Public address.

Can they access the internet normally?

Internet work perfectly

Jumpy · 28-09-2010 5:00pm

I can only assume there is an issue with the port forwarding then. I dont know the router, maybe its set to only forward requests coming from external.

You can add an A record to your Domain Controllers DNS to point the public host name to a private IP to sort of do a "band-aid" fix, but that might be getting overcomplicated if you dont know DNS.

corkcomp · 28-09-2010 6:00pm

Jumpy wrote: »

I can only assume there is an issue with the port forwarding then. I dont know the router, maybe its set to only forward requests coming from external.

You can add an A record to your Domain Controllers DNS to point the public host name to a private IP to sort of do a "band-aid" fix, but that might be getting overcomplicated if you dont know DNS.

all of that might apply IF there wasnt an ISA component involved.. if there were issues with port forwarding or dns then the mail wouldnt be working on the server.. ive seen this hundreds of times and is very common with ISA - you need to ammend settings on firewall client to allow clients access pop and lots of other external ports..

if you want to test once and for all just disable firewall client on one of the PC's and set a static IP and make sure to put the IP address of ISA server as default GW and it should work ..

Jumpy · 28-09-2010 6:39pm

There isnt an ISA component involved. Hes already stated that. Hes just using the broadband router as the gateway device.

Internet to Mail Server via Router (Public IP) = working - this means that he has port forwarding set correctly.
PC to Mail Server via Router (Public IP) = not working - This is the primary issue.
PC to mail server via router (Private IP) = working - This means the PCs themselves are not the problem.

In theory when he uses the PCs on the private network to access the Public IP it should still route correctly, but it isnt. The PCs can access POP3 fine, just not from the Public address.

Ruosullivan · 28-09-2010 6:40pm

corkcomp wrote: »

ive seen this hundreds of times and is very common with ISA - you need to ammend settings on firewall client to allow clients access pop and lots of other external ports..

I had been told before that the BT Voyager 2110 is know to have issues with SBS.

I have a zyxel and a linksys that i'm going to pre-configure. I'm heading up to them on thursday so i'll swap out the modem early am and see how it goes, i can't think of anything else!

The problem on occured when the new modem was installed on the new line, i have to believe that the problem lies there. I can't use the old modem as it's ancient and only supports ADSL, the new line is ADSL2+

The dual profiles in outlook will keep them happy for a couple of days.

Thankyou both for your time and patience, i'll let you know ho i get on

ressem · 29-09-2010 3:14pm

Jumpy wrote: »

There isnt an ISA component involved. Hes already stated that. Hes just using the broadband router as the gateway device.

Internet to Mail Server via Router (Public IP) = working - this means that he has port forwarding set correctly.
PC to Mail Server via Router (Public IP) = not working - This is the primary issue.
PC to mail server via router (Private IP) = working - This means the PCs themselves are not the problem.

In theory when he uses the PCs on the private network to access the Public IP it should still route correctly, but it isnt. The PCs can access POP3 fine, just not from the Public address.

Isn't this routing issue fairly typical using consumer level broadband routers with NAT?
As Jumpy stated, typical solution is to set up the internal DNS server, i.e. Windows SBS to direct the mail.****.ie as an alias to the server's internal IP address.

Then the issue is that you don't want this server to be the authoritive server for all ****.ie records. i.e you might not want to have to duplicate and maintain all the www.****.ie, ftp.****.ie, smtp.****.ie or whatever else you might have on your domain.

So on the windows domain server, you go to the DNS server management console, create a forward zone for the full domain name mail.****.ie.
Then within this you create an alias record with a blank name, and with the address set to the internal server name.

Ruosullivan · 29-09-2010 4:41pm

I wen't to log in via remote acces last night and the line was down. I rang BT Business care and they stated that it's a common fault with the Voyager 2110. I pointed out that this was our second one, and i was told that this is also quite common!!!

I setup a linksys this morning, drove up to the premises and swapped out the modem.......... lo and behold, everything works great. So it turns out it was the modem after all!!!

In over my head!!!

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