Money left in ATM machine

who_ru · 28-09-2013 4:49pm #1

Hi.

Not sure where to put this thread.

left a sum of money in an atm machine by mistake, just happened and feel stupid.

after discovering my error i rang the petrol station where i took the money out.

They have it on CCTV.

After I walked away from the atm and left woman in the queue behind me went to use the atm. My cash can be seen in the tray on CCTV.

The woman cannot insert her card because my cash is still there. she sees the cash and takes it out, turns around to look for me outside, walks as far as the door, then turns around and uses the atm herself with her card.

She keeps my cash and leaves without handing in at the till. All of this is on CCTV.

The security guy at the petrol station says he can burn the footage onto a cd.

if i contact the bank operating the atm, explain what happened, time & date etc, footage from cctv, can anything be done about this?

they must know who the woman is since she entered her pin at the atm.

just wondering if i can get my cash back - probably not.

michael999999 · 28-09-2013 4:51pm

Nothing to do with the bank.

Contact the guards as she stole your money. Bring a copy of the security footage.

MarkR · 28-09-2013 4:52pm

They won't be able to give you her details, but I would report it to your local garda station as theft (which it is) and to both your bank, and the bank operating the ATM. If she hadn't taken it, I think most (all?) machines swallow the money back. The over balance would be noted, and you'd probably get a letter back eventually. I got one after 8 years!

who_ru · 28-09-2013 5:06pm

michael999999 wrote: »

Nothing to do with the bank.

Contact the guards as she stole your money. Bring a copy of the security footage.

i know it has nothing to do with the bank as it was my own mistake.

i'm wondering if it is possible for the me to establish this woman's identity if i contact the bank that operates the atm or should i go to the guards with the footage. It' a 3 figure sum and wouldn't mind getting it back.

it was a bad mistake on my part.

dudara · 28-09-2013 5:12pm

The bank can't share that woman's identity with you. You will need to go to the Gardaí and seek their advice.

To be honest, I don't know if she "stole" your money, but a Garda can offer an opinion on that.

furiousox · 28-09-2013 5:15pm

Was she in a car?
If you can get her car reg from the cctv, the guards will locate her easily.

hfallada · 28-09-2013 5:18pm

ATMs are programmed to shallow money that isnt taken. I would report the women. If I found money in an ATM, I would take it. But I would tell the petrol station workers I found money and the owner can call me. I wouldnt trust the workers in the petrol station.

slimjimmc · 28-09-2013 5:19pm

Has no one considered the possibility that the woman has already handed the money into a Garda station in the hope that the rightful owner would come to retrieve it there?

who_ru · 28-09-2013 5:19pm

furiousox wrote: »

Was she in a car?
If you can get her car reg from the cctv, the guards will locate her easily.

good point.

Fred Swanson · 28-09-2013 5:23pm

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who_ru · 28-09-2013 6:24pm

update.

went to the local garda station to ask if a sum of money had been handed in today. Nothing handed in.

Told them the details, said cctv had captured everything in colour, crystal clear, and that petrol station security is willing to burn footage onto cd. I must ask if the woman was driving and if so did they capture a reg plate.

Guard basically said nothing they could do. Couldn't believe his response, seemed to suggest **** happens. yeah i know that, but you are the police and this is your job. i'm going to get the cd burned and go back to the guards again.

can't let this go now, the sum isn't relevant but the guards response is and the woman's actions are too. Ultimately she has money in her possession that isn't hers, knew it wasn't hers when she took it from the atm, didn't hand it in, didn't leave contact details at the petrol station and left with it.

she didn't find money on the street, she took it from an atm machine, knowing it wasn't hers, then didn't hand it in at local garda station. i also asked at a shop and off license next door if money had been handed in. nope.

or am i to ring every garda station in the country and ask if a middle aged woman fitting the description from the cctv hand in a sum of money per chance?

Fred Swanson · 28-09-2013 6:30pm

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McLoughlin · 28-09-2013 7:23pm

Its not theft you left your money there by mistake same if you had left a wallet full of cash on a table its not theft its finders keepers.

Guy:Incognito · 28-09-2013 7:29pm

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

What does this cover? finding money on the street?

michael999999 · 28-09-2013 7:30pm

McLoughlin wrote: »

Its not theft you left your money there by mistake same if you had left a wallet full of cash on a table its not theft its finders keepers.

No, no its not!

Fred Swanson · 28-09-2013 7:33pm

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sensormatic · 28-09-2013 7:36pm

ha ha for being such a fool i hope she had a great weekend outta it nice one well done

my teapot is orange · 28-09-2013 7:54pm

The bank can't give you her identity.

But the gards, by speaking to the bank, the petrol station and viewing the footage should be well able to work out who she is using her account information.

The machine may have swallowed your money. Extra money left in the machine is counted regularly. I once used a machine that didn't give me my money. It got stuck. I contacted the bank to see if it had been taken from the account. It had been. They verified that the amount I stated was left at the end of the day. Then they credited my account.

Doff · 28-09-2013 8:01pm

I'm baffled as to how someone can just walk off leaving a 3 figure sum sticking out of the ATM.

You say the lady went to the door looking for you? To me that should be enough. As said by another poster I wouldn't trust the people in the shop to return it. Expecting the woman to go out of her way to drop it to the Guards is asking a bit much, she DID go looking for you after all.

Still can't understand how someone can just leave that much sticking out of the ATM though.

L1011 · 28-09-2013 8:01pm

McLoughlin wrote: »

Its not theft you left your money there by mistake same if you had left a wallet full of cash on a table its not theft its finders keepers.

There is absolutely no legal concept of "finders keepers". Life isn't controlled by 7 year olds.

my teapot is orange · 28-09-2013 8:24pm

The story the people in the shop told you sounds wierd.

If I found money. I would bring it to the counter and make them take it from me.

I would never walk off the premises with someone elses money precisely because I don't want to be responsible for it and I don't want to be accused of theft.

Would she not have left it with them if she spoke to them at all.

who_ru · 28-09-2013 8:35pm

my teapot is orange wrote: »

The story the people in the shop told you sounds wierd.

If I found money. I would bring it to the counter and make them take it from me.

I would never walk off the premises with someone elses money precisely because I don't want to be responsible for it and I don't want to be accused of theft.

Would she not have left it with them if she spoke to them at all.

she is shown on camera walking out without approaching the till which is at the other end of the shop, the exit door is right next to the atm.

i heard a story on radio recently ago about a german tourist couple who found an envelope containing a lot of money in the carpark of an hotel in the midlands recently.

they handed it in to the hotel reception. the hotel immediately contacted the guards and national radio in a bid to find the owner who happened to be an american lady who had stayed in the hotel.

i was impressed by the owner of the hotel who went to such lengths to find the owner but more so by the honesty of the german tourists.

honesty still counts for something. you never know you might benefit from it or by it some time.

Fred Swanson · 28-09-2013 8:45pm

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ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 28-09-2013 8:49pm

McLoughlin wrote: »

Its not theft you left your money there by mistake same if you had left a wallet full of cash on a table its not theft its finders keepers.

I don't know where you got that drivel from. It is certainly theft by finding - which is on the Irish statute books. Finder keepers has no legal standing whatsoever.

The Gardai are well aware of this. OP go back to the barrack and ask for an inspector. They have to pursue this as theft if she did not hand it in.

dudara · 28-09-2013 9:05pm

@sensormatic - please post constructively or don't post at all.

dudara

my teapot is orange · 28-09-2013 9:05pm

who_ru wrote: »

honesty still counts for something. you never know you might benefit from it or by it some time.

What is this bit supposed to mean?

trellheim · 28-09-2013 9:25pm

As far as I can tell you don't have rights to the CCTV footage, you could be anybody on a blurry screen. Data Protection would take a dim view. Chalk this one down to experience OP if the cops don't want to get involved.

michael999999 · 28-09-2013 9:30pm

trellheim wrote: »

As far as I can tell you don't have rights to the CCTV footage, you could be anybody on a blurry screen. Data Protection would take a dim view. Chalk this one down to experience OP if the cops don't want to get involved.

Ha ha. Ya that's great advice.

The footage is owned by the garage, they can give it to the op or whoever they want.

Just because the op came across a lazy unhelpful guard today, doesn't mean when they go back to complain to the sargeant they won't be helped.

P. Breathnach · 28-09-2013 9:31pm

The financial institution whose ATM it is should be able to identify from transaction records some details of the customer who followed you, and that can be used in conjunction with her own bank to establish who she is.

They cannot do that for OP, but I am sure that they can do it for the Gardaí.

who_ru · 28-09-2013 9:39pm

trellheim wrote: »

As far as I can tell you don't have rights to the CCTV footage, you could be anybody on a blurry screen. Data Protection would take a dim view. Chalk this one down to experience OP if the cops don't want to get involved.

the footage is in full colour and crystal clear, nothing blurry about it. the camera is placed about a foot over the door and has the woman's face in full view when she turns around holding the cash in her hand.

what's data protection got to do with anything?. i don't want her bank acc number or access to her phone or laptop.

dubrov · 28-09-2013 9:42pm

Sad that the guard you talked to was too lazy to do anything as they saw it as minor and not worth their time.
Very common in my experience.

Out of principle alone I would chase this up.
If you hassle them enough they will chase it up to get you off their back.

who_ru · 28-09-2013 9:44pm

my teapot is orange wrote: »

What is this bit supposed to mean?

others applauding the woman's dishonesty.

Fred Swanson · 28-09-2013 9:58pm

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SCOOP 64 · 28-09-2013 10:03pm

I know she took the money ,but i don't think she will the biggest criminal on the guarders hit list, she might even hand it in to her own bank on Monday.

trellheim · 28-09-2013 10:11pm

Ha ha. Ya that's great advice.

The footage is owned by the garage, they can give it to the op or whoever they want

Comedy geniuses here.

That tape can't be given to op as unless there's a sign walkin in the door saying CCTV can/will be given out to all and sundry without a warrant then its not allowed ( and even then I'm not sure you can waive that right in Ireland ) . try it out, go ask Dunnes stores, AIB, Marks & Spencer or Tesco for the last 60 minutes on a USB stick

And b : you give that footage to a copper you could have shopped it yourself, unless GS gets a signed/certified evidence off the shop footage directly your Cd is worthless ( no chain of evidence )

Victor · 29-09-2013 12:13am

Tell bank and Garda now, but hope that she hands it in on Monday.

dudara wrote: »

To be honest, I don't know if she "stole" your money, but a Garda can offer an opinion on that.

There is an offence along the lines of 'theft by finding'.

kc90 · 29-09-2013 12:36am

hfallada wrote: »

ATMs are programmed to shallow money that isnt taken. I would report the women. If I found money in an ATM, I would take it. But I would tell the petrol station workers I found money and the owner can call me. I wouldnt trust the workers in the petrol station.

Clearly it would have been best had she handed it in, it's the 1st place the OP went when trying to retrieve it. Perhaps she held the same mistrust? She may still have handed it into a Garda station.

S28382 · 29-09-2013 11:02am

I was at an ATM in Kilkenny a few weeks back some guy was in front of me using the machine he walked off leaving what looked like a considerable amount of money (by the looks about 500euro) i could of kept it as no one else seen him leave it in the ATM. I took it from the machine and shouted after him gave him his money i didnt even get a thanks he just said "oh right" and off he went. I didnt want anything for being honest just a thanks would of done.

Guy:Incognito · 29-09-2013 12:23pm

MYOB wrote: »

There is absolutely no legal concept of "finders keepers". Life isn't controlled by 7 year olds.

Is it too late to have it added to the referendum?:)

allthedoyles · 29-09-2013 8:57pm

Funny thing happened to me once . - the guy in front of me left his card in the ATM and drove off .

So when I approached the atm , it was at the stage where you could select to withdraw .

I pressed the €100 option , and took the money .
So next day I rang the bank and told them to contact the card owner and give him my number .
He called to the house next evening and I gave him his €100 and his card .
He did say thanks quietly .

dudara · 29-09-2013 11:52pm

Victor wrote: »

There is an offence along the lines of 'theft by finding'.

Wasn't actually aware of that until now. Good thing to have learned.

Cd_doe · 30-09-2013 12:09am

I would be of the opinion that it is not theft.

"Dishonestly appropriating property with the intention of depriving the owner of it".

The way it came into her possession was not dishonest on her part. It was because of your stupidity.

I think she proved that she was not intending on depriving you of it by going outside looking for you.

Now I'm not saying that she was morally right. She should have made more efforts to locate you (and maybe she did, she may have rang a Garda station asking if anybody has reported losing it).
But legally speaking I think it would be hard for the guards to get a theft conviction in this instance.

I don't think it's the women's fault. I don't think it's the banks fault. I don't think it's the guards fault. I don't think it's the shop assistants fault.

It's your own fault.

I hope you get it back and learn from your mistake.

Fred Swanson · 30-09-2013 12:20am

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Kristopherus · 30-09-2013 12:24am

Cd_doe wrote: »

I would be of the opinion that it is not theft.

"Dishonestly appropriating property with the intention of depriving the owner of it".

The way it came into her possession was not dishonest on her part. It was because of your stupidity.

I think she proved that she was not intending on depriving you of it by going outside looking for you.

Now I'm not saying that she was morally right. She should have made more efforts to locate you (and maybe she did, she may have rang a Garda station asking if anybody has reported losing it).
But legally speaking I think it would be hard for the guards to get a theft conviction in this instance.

I don't think it's the women's fault. I don't think it's the banks fault. I don't think it's the guards fault. I don't think it's the shop assistants fault.

It's your own fault.

I hope you get it back and learn from your mistake.

Of course its dishonest. She took it knowing it did'nt belong to her. How's that not dishonest.

IMHO she may have thought about giving it in to the shop, but then thought "F**k it I'll keep it". And that is stealing, plain & simple.

30-09-2013 1:32am

Victor wrote: »

There is an offence along the lines of 'theft by finding'.

Theft by finding is a very difficult concept to prove in criminal law - and I don't think the changes made to Irish law in 2001 really help.

The original law - Larceny Act, 1916 - clearly said that it was theft if you found something and kept it in the belief that the owner could be found by taking reasonable steps.

The current law - Criminal Justice (Theft and Fraud Offences) Act, 2001 - is almost the opposite way round. It says that it is not theft if you find something and keep it in the belief that the owner cannot be found by taking reasonable steps.

In either case, the Gardaí and the courts have the problem that the test is almost entirely about the mental state of the finder. The question is not whether the owner can be found - it is whether the finder believes the owner can be found.

In the post-2001 situation, the second problem is that the the law doesn't define what is theft. Instead, it defines what is not theft. Before even getting to the facts of the matter, the Gardaí and the DPP have to get the courts to define theft by agreeing that the opposite of what the Act says is true - in other words, that it would be theft if you were to take something that you found without looking for the owner.

While I would have some considerable sympathy for someone losing money in such a manner, I have to say I can see why a Garda might decide he didn't want to touch something like that with a bargepole.

Fred Swanson · 30-09-2013 1:35am

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Zillah · 30-09-2013 1:45am

trellheim wrote: »

That tape can't be given to op as unless there's a sign walkin in the door saying CCTV can/will be given out to all and sundry without a warrant then its not allowed ( and even then I'm not sure you can waive that right in Ireland ) . try it out, go ask Dunnes stores, AIB, Marks & Spencer or Tesco for the last 60 minutes on a USB stick

The OP has already said the shop will give him a copy, so this is irrelevant. Maybe the thief could make a complaint through the Data Protection Act but that is neither here nor there, nor is it the OP's concern.

And b : you give that footage to a copper you could have shopped it yourself, unless GS gets a signed/certified evidence off the shop footage directly your Cd is worthless ( no chain of evidence )

He can give his copy to the guards to help kickstart their investigation, and they can get their own verified copy later if there is a prosecution.

Stop being obtuse.

Depp · 30-09-2013 1:49am

McLoughlin wrote: »

Its not theft you left your money there by mistake same if you had left a wallet full of cash on a table its not theft its finders keepers.

So if you leave your car in a carpark and someone takes it its finders keepers? <SNIP>

Cd_doe · 30-09-2013 8:57am

Kristopherus wrote: »

Of course its dishonest. She took it knowing it did'nt belong to her. How's that not dishonest.

IMHO she may have thought about giving it in to the shop, but then thought "F**k it I'll keep it". And that is stealing, plain & simple.

I would be saying she took it with the intention of going out of the shop to see of the op was still around... which was in this case confirmed by the cctv. This is not dishonest.

Maybe your picking me up wrong, I fully agree that there were better steps she could have taken to locate the owner.

I'm just suggesting that in my opinion it would not come under theft.

OP, I think your best bet would be to try get the vehicle registration number in the garage. Bring that to the guards and hopefully they could call to the owner and ask them to give you the money.
If the owner says no or denies it, at this stage it would become theft in my opinion as that would be the required proof that she is intending on depriving you of your property.

I think without that proof it does not come under theft as stated on the theft and fraud offences act 2001.

Good luck

who_ru · 30-09-2013 10:20am

Cd_doe wrote: »

I don't think it's the women's fault. I don't think it's the banks fault. I don't think it's the guards fault. I don't think it's the shop assistants fault.

It's your own fault.

I hope you get it back and learn from your mistake.

where i did i say it was someone else's fault?

the woman did not go outside looking for me.

MrStuffins · 30-09-2013 10:51am

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I'm all for acknowledging that taking someones' money after they leave the ATM isn't the nicest thing to do ever but a year in prison is ridiculously harsh!

Money left in ATM machine

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