Cheap Chinese ditch finders

PaulKK · 18-03-2012 1:28am

I've read that the Vreds are good, but they are also quite a soft compound and wear quite fast.

I've been using Falkens for about 4 years now, have to say I find them excellent.

The FK452 are very good, and very grippy, but again in my experience the wear rate is that little bit high as well.

I like the Ziex 912 from Falken. Its marketed as an all season tyre, the wet weather performance is good and the wear rate is very reasonable too.

I would recommend them myself.

If you are doing low/averagae enough mileage I'd get the FK452, higher mileage the 912.

gollywog · 18-03-2012 1:30am

PaulKK wrote: »

I've read that the Vreds are good, but they are also quite a soft compound and wear quite fast.

I've been using Falkens for about 4 years now, have to say I find them excellent.

The FK452 are very good, and very grippy, but again in my experience the wear rate is that little bit high as well.

I like the Ziex 912 from Falken. Its marketed as an all season tyre, the wet weather performance is good and the wear rate is very reasonable too.

I would recommend them myself.

If you are doing low/averagae enough mileage I'd get the FK452, higher mileage the 912.

Cheers man for the quick reply!
God its just so confusing when you have no experience in buying good tyres... Always bought the cheapest goin...
There's too much choice altogether!
I'll look them up now, expensive??

PaulKK · 18-03-2012 1:35am

gollywog wrote: »

Cheers man for the quick reply!
God its just so confusing when you have no experience in buying good tyres... Always bought the cheapest goin...
There's too much choice altogether!
I'll look them up now, expensive??

The 912 ones are usually roughly the same price as the 452.
These are mid range tyres by the way, still not in premium territory

Also worth looking at are Kumho Escta and Hankook.

By the way the Falkens can be a bit tight on the bigger sizes, I've had to give the fitter a hand a few times getting my 255 ones on to an 18" rim

gollywog · 18-03-2012 1:39am

PaulKK wrote: »

gollywog wrote: »

Cheers man for the quick reply!
God its just so confusing when you have no experience in buying good tyres... Always bought the cheapest goin...
There's too much choice altogether!
I'll look them up now, expensive??

The 912 ones are usually roughly the same price as the 452.
These are mid range tyres by the way, still not in premium territory

Also worth looking at are Kumho Escta and Hankook.

By the way the Falkens can be a bit tight on the bigger sizes, I've had to give the fitter a hand a few times getting my 255 ones on to an 18" rim

Ya i just looked and there basically the same price so great! I'm planning on using camskill by the way, are they good? To be honest mid range is about as much as I can afford right now lol! Are the Vreds mid range too??

JJJJNR · 18-03-2012 1:40am

Vred cento looks good also,i found the sessanta tramlined a bit.

gollywog · 18-03-2012 1:43am

JJJJNR wrote: »

Vred cento looks good also,i found the sessanta tramlined a bit.

Pardon my ignorance, but what does tramline mean?? Total novice here!

PaulKK · 18-03-2012 1:43am

gollywog wrote: »

Ya i just looked and there basically the same price so great! I'm planning on using camskill by the way, are they good? To be honest mid range is about as much as I can afford right now lol! Are the Vreds mid range too??

Yep Vreds are mid range.

Premium would be Conti, Bridgestone, Michelin, Pirelli and Dunlop to a lesser extent.

Always use camskill myself, excellent service.

Can't argue with the affording part, sure I got nankangs myself last time

gollywog · 18-03-2012 1:45am

PaulKK wrote: »

gollywog wrote: »

Ya i just looked and there basically the same price so great! I'm planning on using camskill by the way, are they good? To be honest mid range is about as much as I can afford right now lol! Are the Vreds mid range too??

Always use camskill myself, excellent service.

Can't argue with the affording part, sure I got nankangs myself last time

Good glad to hear there reputable

I have nangkang ns2 (I think!) on the car now as they came on it and I notice a huge difference to the crap I was buying already! Would the others be noticeably better again?

Chris_Heilong · 18-03-2012 1:50am

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Same race?? ffs, so products made in America can be claimed as Irish then?:rolleyes:

a bit OTT there dont you think,
the present majority in Taiwan are the members of the Nationalist party who were living on Mainland China up until they lost the civil war and the communists won, they retreated to Taiwan and took over the island from the native Taiwanese who they now treat as aborigines and dont really have a say, so yeah they are part of the Chinese race, they call them selves Chinese and if you asked me what Language they were speaking I would also say Chinese because I am fluent in it and can understand them almost perfectly.

So saying that NanKang(南港) tyres are Chinese is also correct;) Anyway I would agree that most Chinese tyres are low grade and wouldn't mind shelling out a little more for peace of mind.

PaulKK · 18-03-2012 1:54am

gollywog wrote: »

Good glad to hear there reputable
I have nangkang ns2 (I think!) on the car now as they came on it and I notice a huge difference to the crap I was buying already! Would the others be noticeably better again?

To be honest not a huge amount. The will be marginally better of course, but I have been pleasantly surprised by the NS2 so far.

I've had Premium brands in the past and in my opinion they are not worth their premium.

If you are driving on the edge then yes you will probably notice a difference but standard/brisk driving you probably won't.

Yes the braking distances of Nankang would probably not be as good as a premium brand, but between a Kumho/Falken/Vred and a premium tyre would be a lot less I'd be willing to bet.

gollywog · 18-03-2012 1:57am

PaulKK wrote: »

gollywog wrote: »

Good glad to hear there reputable
I have nangkang ns2 (I think!) on the car now as they came on it and I notice a huge difference to the crap I was buying already! Would the others be noticeably better again?

To be honest not a huge amount. The will be marginally better of course, but I have been pleasantly surprised by the NS2 so far.

I've had Premium brands in the past and in my opinion they are not worth their premium.

If you are driving on the edge then yes you will probably notice a difference but standard/brisk driving you probably won't.

Yes the braking distances of Nankang would probably not be as good as a premium brand, but between a Kumho/Falken/Vred and a premium tyre would be a lot less I'd be willing to bet.

OK great that's good to know then, thank you

You've done me a favour tonight paul, i appreciate it!

PaulKK · 18-03-2012 2:00am

gollywog wrote: »

OK great that's good to know then, thank you
You've done me a favour tonight paul, i appreciate it!

No bother, glad to help

18-03-2012 3:32am

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Same race?? ffs, so products made in America can be claimed as Irish then?:rolleyes:

THere are some medical devices made in China and marketed as being made in the states or Ireland in many cases as they are shipped from China for the final stages of processing which would be the likes of cleaning, packing and sterilization. I'd be thinking thats not limited to med device products.

lomb · 18-03-2012 8:50am

PaulKK wrote: »

To be honest not a huge amount. The will be marginally better of course, but I have been pleasantly surprised by the NS2 so far.

I've had Premium brands in the past and in my opinion they are not worth their premium.

If you are driving on the edge then yes you will probably notice a difference but standard/brisk driving you probably won't.

Yes the braking distances of Nankang would probably not be as good as a premium brand, but between a Kumho/Falken/Vred and a premium tyre would be a lot less I'd be willing to bet.

But are Nankang all that cheap relative to say Uniroyals (continental)?
Kumho are actually cheaper than Nankang. Have a look on camskill for prices.

PaulKK · 18-03-2012 11:26am

lomb wrote: »

But are Nankang all that cheap relative to say Uniroyals (continental)?
Kumho are actually cheaper than Nankang. Have a look on camskill for prices.

Yes they are a lot cheaper, you will see in my earlier post that in my case they were 50e a corner less than falken. I also always use camskill.

Kumho are certainly not cheaper than nankang for my size anhway, they are more expensive than Falken these days. Off the top of my head the nankangs were approx 90e, the falkens 140, kumho 150, uniroyal 160 delivered in a 255/35/18 when i was getting them a couple of months ago. They were 70 less than uniroyal.

YouTookMyName · 18-03-2012 12:04pm

Amazing the amount of good branded cars, with shíte tyres on them.

Whats the point in buying expensive alloys and wrapping them in cheap rubber, it's crazy.

gollywog · 18-03-2012 1:25pm

YouTookMyName wrote: »

Amazing the amount of good branded cars, with shíte tyres on them.

Whats the point in buying expensive alloys and wrapping them in cheap rubber, it's crazy.

You see i never really knew much about tyres at all.... Only start looking properly as i got a car which i take pride in. I would imagine lots of people are in the same boat as me too, hence people with the cheaper tyres.
That and of the course the price!

dgt · 18-03-2012 4:46pm

Another unhappy poster on ditch finders here! :pac:

Personal experiences

My dad had kingstars on his old car. They came with a deal: 4 new tyres plus a free tracking. Now the tyres did las 42k miles/ 68k kms but they were useless in the wet and dry!
His old van had 2 westlake tyres on the back. Not too bad but then again it never carried more than 1.5 tonnes (1.8t payload)
Recently fitting an westlake tyre to a car, it it was a bastard to get on (doing it the old fashioned way with no tyre machine) there as a hole in the sidewall so I took it off. Put on an event instead, it has a slow puncture :mad::mad:
I used to have a mix of nankang ultra sport and accelera alphas on my van. They were just brilliant in the dry, stick to the road, unreal cornering! Introduce the wet and it became undriveable. Admittedly they were 40 section tyres... Now have michelin and semperit commercial tyres, they made such a huge difference to my van!
My mams car had bridgestones all round. Decent enough tyre but wasn't great in the wet. Now I can't remember the name of those tyres she has on the back but they're chinese whatsits with silverstones m+s tyres at the front, much better car in the mud and wet
My dad had 2 nankangs on the back of his car till recently. Taking off from a roundabout in 1st, the arse stepped out :rolleyes:
My BMW has nankangs all round. They're pathetic in any condition, they are the limit in the wet, both oversteer and understeer, its horrible! M+S, useless in the snow, wobbly and lots of road noise in the dry. They ruin a beautiful car :mad:

This is how I dealt with those nankangs

:pac:

maidhc · 18-03-2012 4:57pm

Can't be bothered reading the thread, but I found Falken F452s to be only average, and they are after all a budget tyre.

The only tyre to get if grip matters is Eagle F1s. Too bad I can't afford them, and make do with Maxxis, which incidentally are chinese, but seem decent (better than the Falkens anyway) so far.

AugustusMinimus · 18-03-2012 5:09pm

Why aren't these tyres banned.

Is there any standards that must be adhered to in terms of grip for new tyres sold in this country or the EU ?

Nissan doctor · 18-03-2012 11:32pm

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Why aren't these tyres banned.

Is there any standards that must be adhered to in terms of grip for new tyres sold in this country or the EU ?

There are EU regulations for the manufacturing processes that must be met, but its the tyre manufacturer themselves who certify the tyres as meeting these standard not any independent body.

There is currently no regulations relating to thread design/compounds/grip levels etc although, from the end of this year, tyres officially sold in Europe will have to carry a sticker saying how they rate for wet weather braking, road noise and rolling resistance.

Tyres officially sold is the key phrase though...as the majority of these cheap Chinese tyres do not have any official suppliers in Europe, they are independently imported by second line suppliers, so will likely be able to continue to bypass they regulations.

Indricotherium · 19-03-2012 10:24am

Thanks for all the responses guys.

I think the conclusions I'm going to come to is that there probably is some merit in buying expensive branded tyres, ie they will reduce stopping distance, road noise, improve mpg and grip. However, for an ordinary reasonable driver who doesn't push his car or tyres there is only a negligable difference between the two.

Many of the responses to this thread have been along the lines of "throw your car into a corner on a wet day and see the difference" and I accept that in this situation a set of triangles might let you down quicker.

By way of my own personal experience, I've had two emergency stops since I started this thread. One was from 100k on a damp road, and it was on the advice of this thread I done it. My car came to stop, abs blaring in what I consider a safe distance.

The second was for real! I was on the m4 driving around 70k in about three inches of standing water/hail/slush, and the car in front of me jammed on. My car again came to a stop safely.

Further personal experiance;

My oh's car is a 97 fiesta on which she changes tyres one at a time when the nct man tells her to and for the cheapest possible tyre going. She once bought a part worn triangle. Gripwise the stopping distance in the fiesta has always been a bit on the long side, and I've always put this down to its lack of abs. It's fairly easy to spin he front wheels as well so it could be a tyre issue.

Lateral grip in the fiesta is awesome though. I think you'd get a back wheel off the ground before the car started to slide.

I think that the good lateral grip may be due to the design of the car itself, and the poor linear grip due to the piebald mix of tyres and relaxed attitude to air pressure the gf has.

I think this thread has probably run its course now as all positions (me vs everyone else) seem to be fairly entrenched.

keithclancy · 19-03-2012 10:38am

Indricotherium wrote: »

Thanks for all the responses guys.

I think the conclusions I'm going to come to is that there probably is some merit in buying expensive branded tyres, ie they will reduce stopping distance, road noise, improve mpg and grip. However, for an ordinary reasonable driver who doesn't push his car or tyres there is only a negligable difference between the two. .

A person being dead or your car being wrecked is a fairly large difference.

Mycroft H · 19-03-2012 11:03am

Im going to say this again, not all cheap tyres are bad.

Read back a few pages, I had a set of austone tyres on an xantia and I really could not fault them. Good dry grip and not much worse grip then the verdsteins that replaced them. I did not drive easy with them and they held on.

Conversely I've driven a C5 with pace tyres and they are terrible. The electronic brake distribution light is on a frightening amount of the time with them.

Do your research if you really must buy cheap tyres.

pred racer · 19-03-2012 11:23am

For me its simple. I drive quickly. Now unless your'e really hoofin it (i do this too btw:D) a 'good' set of tyres should have no noticable difference between wet and dry grip at brisk road speeds.(btw i know braking distances are different before someone feels the need to point it out) If they do then they are ****e afaiak!
This includes known brands and ditchfinders.
if i can feel my car moving under me at the normal speed i drive then i change.

There was a set of nankangs on the front of my alfa when i bought it. Dry grip very good, damp grip good, wet grip horrible, so i changed the fronts to acelleras which so far are good. The nankangs were put on the back, but now i can feel the back giving the occasional small twitch under fast cornering, so when i get home they are going in the bin (anyone want to buy some lightly worn nankangs

)

You should never be near the limit of your tyres adhesion at normal road speeds, if you are whats gonna happen in a situation where you need a little more?

lomb · 19-03-2012 1:58pm

Forget stopping distances, careful driving can compensate for that...

Im much more worried about blowouts, if a tyre pops and there is a car coming headon then you are seconds from disaster at any moment.

Personally I have more faith in European or Jap tyres ie Falken and Yokohama are as good as Conti, Michelin etc.

Anyone who drives an old fiesta is seconds from disaster anyway if involved in a crash. No active and little passive safety ie Esp etc. You couldnt pay me to let a family member drive in a fundamentally unsafe car compared to whats available cheaply today.

kupus · 19-03-2012 2:14pm

I could be wrong on this but doesnt a car fitted with abs have a longer stopping distance than a car without abs?

kupus · 19-03-2012 2:21pm

@Indricotherium a couple of inches is all it takes between life and death. It all boils down to that equation. A pedestrian can be killed at 30kph or 300 kph, whether the driver was competent or not, but if stopping an extra couple of inches before the unfortunate, is it not worth it?

kerten · 19-03-2012 2:31pm

lomb wrote: »

Forget stopping distances, careful driving can compensate for that...

Yes, careful driving practices like below can compensate 99% of need for decent tyres

- Being aware of cars braking and grip limits
- Reading road ahead and be prepared for risks
- Keeping a safe distance with car in front
- Not accelerating while driving down in a hill or on a bend
- Slowing down on blind spots
- Driving slowly and carefully when it is damp or wet or icy

But I still can't see how careful driving can compensate if a person or animal jumps in front of your car from nowhere. Also you can't be careful %100 time of your driving. We're human and we do mistakes. This is why active(most relies on grip of tyre) and passive safety equipments are there to compensate this mistakes as much as they can.

A decent tyre can be a difference between you hit whatever in front of you or not in once in a lifetime situation. You may still hit them with decent tyre but at least you won't ask yourself that what if I have better tyres.

My observation of drivers in Ireland is they take too much risks by not looking after their cars, buying cheap tyres, driving at the limits of road condition and their cars for no valid reason.

I think main reason behind this many people in Ireland didn't involve a crash with injury or death due to low density of population. I can't imagine a person involved in a serious crash can easily say "buying dithcfinders is fine for me"

19-03-2012 7:53pm

kupus wrote: »

I could be wrong on this but doesnt a car fitted with abs have a longer stopping distance than a car without abs?

Wouldn't think so, ABS maximises the grip and minimises the stopping distance.

FGR · 19-03-2012 8:09pm

ABS allows for greater control when stopping as opposed to jamming the brakes, locking the wheels and losing control altogether.

kupus · 19-03-2012 8:31pm

I remember reading something about it and so I found it again:
"On very soft surfaces, such as gravel or unpacked snow, ABS may actually lengthen stopping distances"

Its fine for wet and dry but I had forgotten the criteria where it will lengthen stopping distances.
http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/problems/equipment/absbrakes/page1.html

sunnysoutheast · 19-03-2012 11:41pm

kupus wrote: »

I could be wrong on this but doesnt a car fitted with abs have a longer stopping distance than a car without abs?

Possibly but only in very specific circumstances, I seem to remember seeing a test where a rally driver could stop a little sooner in snow as a wedge of loose snow built up in front of the locked wheel. Under the same conditions it's very likely a non-professional driver would have lost control.

As regards tyres, I steer clear (aha ha ha) of cheap tyres. Some years ago I replaced four borderline-illegal Pirellis on a warmish Clio with brand new Barums (I was planning on selling the car and it was an awkward tyre size) and the handling was much worse on the new tyres. Since then I've only bought GoodYear or Bridgestone, if you shop around I find the difference in price is negligible given I only buy tyres every couple of years.

SSE

Mully_2011 · 20-03-2012 1:15am

Might I make a suggestion for anyone replacing tyres soon Avon ZV3s have them on my car at the minute and the grip outta them both wet and dry is unreal and there not badly priced either

Cheap Chinese ditch finders

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