RPT Hours

vamos! · 15-05-2012 3:58pm #1

Has anybody heard of principals being directed to, or it being suggested to them that hours arising from retirements/staff leaving be divided up among potential new staff? I have heard of a lot of situations (including my own) where people are being offered crazily low hours. 11 hours seems to be rich pickings at the moment. I know some of it is down to subject combos and I have heard one principal admitting that it makes timetabling easier, but am looking to find out if this is likely to happen for a lot of jobs next year? I'm losing my hours and am trying to decide between going abroad or hoping for 15+ hours here!

rainbowtrout · 15-05-2012 7:21pm

Haven't been told the allocation in our school yet. Honestly I do believe it depends from school to school. Some principals are great and look after their staff as best they can with regard to hours. Others as you said keep staff on low hours to make timetabling easier, neglecting to think that part time hours do not offer great career prospects in the long run.

There is something definitely wrong with the system when 11 hours is seen as a good contract.

evolving_doors · 15-05-2012 11:37pm

Race to the bottom

linguist · 17-05-2012 7:43pm

Sorry to hear about your situation vamos. However, it seems unusual from a couple of perspectives:

1) No principal is able to offer anything to their RPTs yet because the redeployment scheme is ongoing. The received wisdom here is that if this is your first year on RPT, you have no rights and could be displaced. Those on their own hours with 2 or 3 years completed are regarded by the unions as having rights but the Dept disagrees. That said, the Dept didn't try to displace those people last year which suggests they don't fancy testing the position legally.
2) My understanding is that principals are still waiting for news on the appeals they submitted to their initial allocation. If you know different, please tell us.
3) It must depend on your subjects and their status in the school (compulsory, combinations, options...) If you're a Spanish teacher and there are 19 hours of Spanish next year, you are entitled to those hours surely. However, if they're reducing the number of class groups in English and the guidance counsellor is also an English teacher, that's where a problem might arise.

I'm always eager to hear other people's wisdom...very little talk about this so far this spring. What's going on?

seavill · 17-05-2012 10:21pm

[QUOTE=linguist;78736941
2) My understanding is that principals are still waiting for news on the appeals they submitted to their initial allocation. If you know different, please tell us.
[/QUOTE]

Very little talk because of this. It is a complete disgrace that firstly schools are finishing in 2 weeks and no principal is able to tell part time staff anything.

They have no idea as to when they will even hear. I was first told the start of May, then end, now God knows when. This is the disgrace of it all.

Talk about redeployment of staff, maybe redeploy some into the directors office and sort your **** out so people can at least try and plan their lives past 2 weeks time. An absolute disgraceful way to run the country but way am I surprised

lestat21 · 17-05-2012 11:13pm

Speaking of teacher allocations, have people found that the number of retirements hasn't resulted in an equal allocation of teaching hours??

For example the number of teachers retiring is in double figures but the school is only allocated 2 teachers next year!!! Several teachers received CIDs (not sure if that makes a difference) but the number of CIDs is nowhere close to the number of retirements. Now I don't know the whole situation and understandably the school is planning to appeal this decision but how can they expect schools to cope..????

rainbowtrout · 18-05-2012 1:31am

lestat21 wrote: »

Speaking of teacher allocations, have people found that the number of retirements hasn't resulted in an equal allocation of teaching hours??

For example the number of teachers retiring is in double figures but the school is only allocated 2 teachers next year!!! Several teachers received CIDs (not sure if that makes a difference) but the number of CIDs is nowhere close to the number of retirements. Now I don't know the whole situation and understandably the school is planning to appeal this decision but how can they expect schools to cope..????

Retirements have no bearing on CIDs. CIDs are only awarded after four years which is completely independent of retirements.

Schools are not going to be able to hire as many teachers as have retired. Many have to fill hours for the guidance counsellor out of the main allocation, well they all do but if the GC is permanent they have to find them hours which were previously ex quota.

solerina · 18-05-2012 7:01pm

Our allocation is down by 4.5 teacher equivalents for next year, our principal told us today, he has submitted appeals but that his current information....we have 6 people who are now very worried !!

gaeilgebeo · 18-05-2012 7:44pm

lestat21 wrote: »

Speaking of teacher allocations, have people found that the number of retirements hasn't resulted in an equal allocation of teaching hours??

For example the number of teachers retiring is in double figures but the school is only allocated 2 teachers next year!!! Several teachers received CIDs (not sure if that makes a difference) but the number of CIDs is nowhere close to the number of retirements. Now I don't know the whole situation and understandably the school is planning to appeal this decision but how can they expect schools to cope..????

Quite a number of teachers who are retiring are A Post holders, therefore aren't on full hours. There have also been more cutbacks to allocation this year. We have had 5 retirements since September. We are still losing nearly the same number of non permanent teachers.

carolzoo · 18-05-2012 8:10pm

god that's a lot. what size school is it approx or number of students? I gather it's a big school? we havn't been told yet our reduction. hope its not something similar.

gaeilgebeo · 18-05-2012 8:14pm

carolzoo wrote: »

god that's a lot. what size school is it approx or number of students? I gather it's a big school? we havn't been told yet our reduction. hope its not something similar.

We have just over 540 at the minute. Our Guidance C. is going to be teaching some mainstream hours next year. Language and Learning support hours have been cut for next year too. The teacher who does a lot of the resource will be teaching mainstream classes in his subject.

linguist · 18-05-2012 8:32pm

gaeilgebeo: You say there have been five retirements since September but to quote you 'we are still losing nearly the same number of non-permanent teachers'. I don't mean to be pedantic, but that's not really clear.

Are you saying that you're down 10 teachers next year - the five retirements and five more. Or that five retired, were replaced and their replacements' jobs are now in doubt - in other words potentially down 5 teachers?

Either way, it seems to me that people are probably being excessively pessimistic here. The initial allocations were bad this year, particularly for DEIS schools or schools that up to now have had significant amounts of language support etc... But it seems to me that the initial allocations are bad every year one way or another and that any decent principal urges people not to worry until the results of the appeals come in. The Government has promised to phase in the cuts to the legacy DEIS posts as much as possible and to help schools worst affected. Let's give them a chance. I very much doubt that any school of 540 pupils will be down five teachers in September.

whiteandlight · 18-05-2012 8:49pm

linguist wrote: »

gaeilgebeo: You say there have been five retirements since September but to quote you 'we are still losing nearly the same number of non-permanent teachers'. I don't mean to be pedantic, but that's not really clear.

Are you saying that you're down 10 teachers next year - the five retirements and five more. Or that five retired, were replaced and their replacements' jobs are now in doubt - in other words potentially down 5 teachers?

Either way, it seems to me that people are probably being excessively pessimistic here. The initial allocations were bad this year, particularly for DEIS schools or schools that up to now have had significant amounts of language support etc... But it seems to me that the initial allocations are bad every year one way or another and that any decent principal urges people not to worry until the results of the appeals come in. The Government has promised to phase in the cuts to the legacy DEIS posts as much as possible and to help schools worst affected. Let's give them a chance. I very much doubt that any school of 540 pupils will be down five teachers in September.

I assumed that it was 5 teachers not on full hours. Christ if it's 5 22hr posts none of us have a hope for next year!

gaeilgebeo · 18-05-2012 8:53pm

linguist wrote: »

gaeilgebeo: You say there have been five retirements since September but to quote you 'we are still losing nearly the same number of non-permanent teachers'. I don't mean to be pedantic, but that's not really clear.

Are you saying that you're down 10 teachers next year - the five retirements and five more. Or that five retired, were replaced and their replacements' jobs are now in doubt - in other words potentially down 5 teachers?

Either way, it seems to me that people are probably being excessively pessimistic here. The initial allocations were bad this year, particularly for DEIS schools or schools that up to now have had significant amounts of language support etc... But it seems to me that the initial allocations are bad every year one way or another and that any decent principal urges people not to worry until the results of the appeals come in. The Government has promised to phase in the cuts to the legacy DEIS posts as much as possible and to help schools worst affected. Let's give them a chance. I very much doubt that any school of 540 pupils will be down five teachers in September.

We had 5 teachers retire since September.
We are still losing nearly the same number(nearly 5) of non permanent teachers. Is this clearer for you?

Yes we are down 4.2 teachers for September. We have over 540 students at the minute. 114 are leaving in 2 weeks. We have 84 first years at the minute. The number of incoming first years is even lower again. This all affects teacher allocation.
Our numbers have fallen.
There have been cut backs.
Some of our retirements have not been replaced.
We have cut 2 subjects from Leaving Cert.
We have made another subject at Junior Cert non-compulsory.
We are cutting a leaving cert programme next year.
Do you think schools of 540 are exempt from these cutbacks?

I do not appreciate your insinuation that I am being "excessively pessimistic" and that you "doubt" what I have said is true.

You have every right to be optimistic about the job situation and "give them a chance", but don't dismiss the advice or opinions of others.

gaeilgebeo · 18-05-2012 8:54pm

Musicmental85 wrote: »

I assumed that it was 5 teachers not on full hours. Christ if it's 5 22hr posts none of us have a hope for next year!

Not all of the non-permanent staff are on full hours.

whiteandlight · 18-05-2012 9:12pm

gaeilgebeo wrote: »

Musicmental85 wrote: »

I assumed that it was 5 teachers not on full hours. Christ if it's 5 22hr posts none of us have a hope for next year!

Not all of the non-permanent staff are on full hours.

That's more in line with what I imagined. Numbers falling is going to be a concern in my school too in a couple of years. I'm just hoping that it's not until I get a CID which is still a long way off

lestat21 · 18-05-2012 9:33pm

Jeez whatever way you look at it, this can't be good for schools or the profession. I know teachers have been speculating what subjects they will have to teach nxt year. Some people think they could be thrown into classes they are not qualified to teach. Simply because they are permanent or CID and the allocation suggests qualified teachers might be in short supply for some subjects. I understand how career guidance and learning support are been catered for in my school but in the schools opinion it doesn't account for the very low allocation. Someone suggested the dept has put the decimal point in the wrong place

Thanks for your reply gaeilgebeo, I never considered how the retirement of post holders would affect the allocation. Any word on posts of responsibility been filled next year??

I know for a fact that the school population is going to stay the same or rise slightly next year, but this school still stands to lose approx 10 teachers.. Is there anyone here working in a schools which has seen a dramatic rise in student numbers? How does your allocation reflect this?

gaeilgebeo · 18-05-2012 9:40pm

lestat21 wrote: »

Jeez whatever way you look at it, this can't be good for schools or the profession. I know teachers have been speculating what subjects they will have to teach nxt year. Some people think they could be thrown into classes they are not qualified to teach. Simply because they are permanent or CID and the allocation suggests qualified teachers might be in short supply for some subjects. I understand how career guidance and learning support are been catered for in my school but in the schools opinion it doesn't account for the very low allocation. Someone suggested the dept has put the decimal point in the wrong place

Thanks for your reply gaeilgebeo, I never considered how the retirement of post holders would affect the allocation. Any word on posts of responsibility been filled next year??

I know for a fact that the school population is going to stay the same or rise slightly next year, but this school still stands to lose approx 10 teachers.. Is there anyone here working in a schools which has seen a dramatic rise in student numbers? How does your allocation reflect this?

Our A Posts so far have not been filled due to the moratorium. The deputy principal is the 6th year year head!

Cutting two subjects from the Leaving Cert really affected the part-timers hours too.

The allocation for an academic year is always based on the previous years first year intake.

linguist · 18-05-2012 10:10pm

gaeilgebeo: I did not mean to cause personal offence by what I wrote. I apologise for how it came across to you, however frankly the need for the query I raised has been well borne out by the extra information you've provided. I referred to people being pessimistic...there's more than you in this discussion.

The currency in any conversation of this type is whole time equivalents not the number of actual people in the staffroom. Obviously the decline in enrollment you've outlined and the timetabling decisions stemming from it have been serious. I think you know well that no school that is stable on 540 should be down 4.6 teachers once the final allocation is in. That's what I meant, and your subsequent posts make it clear that there are many other factors at play.

What I think is important is that people are precise and responsible in the information they share here since this is a worrying time for many.

gaeilgebeo · 18-05-2012 10:16pm

linguist wrote: »

gaeilgebeo: I did not mean to cause personal offence by what I wrote. I apologise for how it came across to you, however frankly the need for the query I raised has been well borne out by the extra information you've provided. I referred to people being pessimistic...there's more than you in this discussion.

The currency in any conversation of this type is whole time equivalents not the number of actual people in the staffroom. Obviously the decline in enrollment you've outlined and the timetabling decisions stemming from it have been serious. I think you know well that no school that is stable on 540 should be down 4.6 teachers once the final allocation is in. That's what I meant, and your subsequent posts make it clear that there are many other factors at play.

What I think is important is that people are precise and responsible in the information they share here since this is a worrying time for many.

So for a school that is stable on 540, you don't think they could lose teachers as a result of cutbacks?

whiteandlight · 18-05-2012 10:23pm

I presume they mean that a 4.5 teacher cut of teachers on 22hrs would seem to be on the heavy side of budget cuts?

linguist · 18-05-2012 10:27pm

Obviously yes - and they will by virtue of the change to guidance which would cost them 0.7 of a teacher for starters.

Anyway, I clarified my position that I didn't mean to cause you offence. You appear set on taking a selective and rather strange interpretation of what I'm saying. If you'd like an argument here, you can have it with someone else. That's not why I'm here.

gaeilgebeo · 18-05-2012 10:36pm

linguist wrote: »

Obviously yes - and they will by virtue of the change to guidance which would cost them 0.7 of a teacher for starters.

Anyway, I clarified my position that I didn't mean to cause you offence. You appear set on taking a selective and rather strange interpretation of what I'm saying. If you'd like an argument here, you can have it with someone else. That's not why I'm here.

No I would not like an argument! Particularly on a Friday night. Funny

If you look back on my contributions to this thread, you will see that.
I appreciate that you did not mean to cause offence. Apologies that I did not state this.
I was merely asking a question in reference to a different part of your post.

whiteandlight · 19-05-2012 2:58pm

Can I just ask that if anyone gets confirmation on their hours for next year that they let the rest of us suffering know!

bdoo · 19-05-2012 7:07pm

Musicmental85 wrote: »

Can I just ask that if anyone gets confirmation on their hours for next year that they let the rest of us suffering know!

Teachers in my school found out this week

whiteandlight · 19-05-2012 7:15pm

Ok so worth asking again then...

linguist · 20-05-2012 10:10am

bdoo: Do you work in a state or a fee-paying school? If it's a state school, then can you confirm whether your principal has received their final allocation, because the point made by me and a number of other posters is that the final allocation hasn't come in yet, thus making it impossible for principals to timetable. Maybe different schools are getting their news at different times...

I'm perplexed as to how your principal could be giving people news given that redeployment is still ongoing. In a fee-paying school, of course, they could largely ignore all this and hire who they like. Please give us a few specifics if you can.

evolving_doors · 20-05-2012 2:50pm

linguist wrote: »

bdoo: Do you work in a state or a fee-paying school? If it's a state school, then can you confirm whether your principal has received their final allocation, because the point made by me and a number of other posters is that the final allocation hasn't come in yet, thus making it impossible for principals to timetable. Maybe different schools are getting their news at different times...

I'm perplexed as to how your principal could be giving people news given that redeployment is still ongoing. In a fee-paying school, of course, they could largely ignore all this and hire who they like. Please give us a few specifics if you can.

open to correction here, but fee paying school s can also be over quota and subject to redeployment a they are also governed by the pupil teacher ratio albeit a different one. The extra teachers they hire are ' ex-quota' .

linguist · 20-05-2012 2:56pm

Absolutely true armelodie. However the fact remains that if they have the money and wish to do so, fee-paying schools can hire whoever they like. Looking at today's Sunday Independent, there are a couple of job ads (time was there would be lots by this stage in May) and in at least one of them it's clearly stated that filling positions is contingent on he approval of the Director of Redeployment.

whiteandlight · 20-05-2012 3:03pm

It's so ridiculously late. School is up in two weeks time and the hundreds of us on part time contracts don't even know if we'll be back next year. How are any of us supposed to have a life when we are sitting in this limbo. It's horribly disheartening.

linguist · 20-05-2012 3:29pm

I hear you musicmental, but deep down you must have some idea...if you're one of a small department teaching a core subject it'd be difficult for your job to evaporate one would have thought. Frankly I'm pretty relaxed because that would sum up my position. Plus our incoming first year enrolment is way up. So fingers crossed.

One imagines the people most at risk are those teaching optional subjects or whose timetables are made up of the 'leftovers'. But one thing is sure...there will always be leftovers to be cobbled together in late August. It's a major pain but there are always people who were sure they wouldn't make it back who turn up on the first day!

whiteandlight · 20-05-2012 4:00pm

True my subject is maths and our numbers are up. I don't have any hours in my other subject music. My worry is more that someone would be redeployed in, not so much that my hours would evaporate. Having said that I'm nowhere near full hours so then the question becomes even if I get my job back do I keep looking etc etc

linguist · 20-05-2012 5:01pm

Ok, well let's be realistic. The biggest risk to your maths hours would arise through the combining of higher/ordinary/foundation classes or a generalised reduction in the number of class divisions. If the final allocation is bad, that's always a possibility. It could happen to me in languages too, but most of my classes are already very full so I see it as rather unlikely.

The one thing I really try not to worry about is redeployment because, of all the variables in play, it's the one over which you have least control. It's also, frankly, the most unlikely thing to happen. I get the impression that the risk of losing out to redeployment is greatest in the VEC sector.

Coming to your final point, yes, if I were in your position (low hours) I'd definitely be looking around.

whiteandlight · 20-05-2012 7:42pm

And I am in the vec sector! Unfortunately there's nowhere to look right now so it's a case of waiting an seeing what my school can give me this year and waiting to see what's out there. Neither of which seems to be confirm able in the short term!

Augustine Hipp · 25-05-2012 5:56pm

vamos! wrote: »

I have heard of a lot of situations (including my own) where people are being offered crazily low hours. 11 hours seems to be rich pickings at the moment. I know some of it is down to subject combos and I have heard one principal admitting that it makes timetabling easier,

I feel your pain.

My partner is heading into the CID year in a VEC. Just got told their hours are now down to 14. The reason? The school principal has taken them for themselves, so as to avoid teaching their second subject (generally considered a hard one). Neither the principal or the regular teacher of that subject want to take exam years, so they are going to hire someone full time to do so, while they have first years.

linguist · 25-05-2012 6:31pm

Augustine_Hipp: This is shocking. I would see it as being a matter of going straight to the union, provided there are no unusual circumstances:

Is your partner fully qualified to teach the subject whose hours are being taken away? If not, and the other teachers are, it would be difficult to fight.

However, if hours are available in the subject, and those hours belonged to your partner up to now, there should be a chance of fighting this. I am guessing from your post that we are talking about a small school here where the principal does an amount of teaching. If there has been a decline in enrolment, it is conceivable that difficult choices have to be made. However, given that next year's hours are vital for the CID, I see no alternative but to go to the union and have the principal explain the whole matter to their satisfaction or otherwise back down.

I can only imagine how upsetting this is, however there is time. Owing to redeployment, it'll surely be mid-June by the time RPT contracts are available. So it's chin up and phone the union first thing on Monday I would say.

Augustine Hipp · 25-05-2012 6:54pm

Thanks so much linguist. Really appreciate the advice.

Not such a small school. Partner fully qualified. Shared the subject with another, (who has CID). Enrolment steady or increasing. Bout the only thing is the principal is relatively new, having come from within.

I don't think partner wants to go down the union route if at all possible. Forgive my complete lack of experience, but, how does something like that actually work in real life? Surely a union call on the matter would really put the principals back up? Even if it did work.

linguist · 25-05-2012 9:52pm

Hi again. I know that it's easy to give bellicose advice when I'm not the one who will have to follow through on it, but let me try to flesh out how I see this.

Would calling in the union get the principal's back up? Possibly. But who is hurting who here? Your partner has worked for three years, doubtless put everything they can into proving their commitment, on the clear basis that after four years, they would earn their CID. Both sides know that. It's the law. Now what's happened? The principal, who is there to run the school, not teach classes, has decided to take some hours from your partner at the most crucial moment of their career and it seems that he/she is in cahoots with another teacher. Both of these people have their secure permanent jobs - as the poet Louis MacNeice once said 'their portion sure' - whilst they are acting in an appalling manner towards your partner.

CID issues are not only one of the biggest issues the unions deal with; they are also an area in which the unions excel. Why should your partner be afraid of getting the principal's back up? The principal has potentially done him/her great harm. If you don't fight this, not only do you let it stand but you also send out a message to these people that they can do what they like. Don't for one minute believe in the benevolence of school management. There are many good principals but there are plenty of unscrupulous ones too and lots of people here have given evidence of that.

When your partner calls the union, they will have to give the full facts as they see them. The union won't do anything unless they feel that they can. So the phone call from the union to the school won't happen unless the union feels there is something up. Schools are unionised workplaces and matters such as this are a fact of life. When you work for a boss for three years only to be treated like this, you owe them nothing. Your partner owes themselves and you the dignity of a decent income and a realistic career and I'm sure I'm not alone in being prepared to fight for those if ever I have to.

rainbowtrout · 25-05-2012 10:18pm

linguist wrote: »

Hi again. I know that it's easy to give bellicose advice when I'm not the one who will have to follow through on it, but let me try to flesh out how I see this.

Would calling in the union get the principal's back up? Possibly. But who is hurting who here? Your partner has worked for three years, doubtless put everything they can into proving their commitment, on the clear basis that after four years, they would earn their CID. Both sides know that. It's the law. Now what's happened? The principal, who is there to run the school, not teach classes, has decided to take some hours from your partner at the most crucial moment of their career and it seems that he/she is in cahoots with another teacher. Both of these people have their secure permanent jobs - as the poet Louis MacNeice once said 'their portion sure' - whilst they are acting in an appalling manner towards your partner.

CID issues are not only one of the biggest issues the unions deal with; they are also an area in which the unions excel. Why should your partner be afraid of getting the principal's back up? The principal has potentially done him/her great harm. If you don't fight this, not only do you let it stand but you also send out a message to these people that they can do what they like. Don't for one minute believe in the benevolence of school management. There are many good principals but there are plenty of unscrupulous ones too and lots of people here have given evidence of that.

When your partner calls the union, they will have to give the full facts as they see them. The union won't do anything unless they feel that they can. So the phone call from the union to the school won't happen unless the union feels there is something up. Schools are unionised workplaces and matters such as this are a fact of life. When you work for a boss for three years only to be treated like this, you owe them nothing. Your partner owes themselves and you the dignity of a decent income and a realistic career and I'm sure I'm not alone in being prepared to fight for those if ever I have to.

This is all conjecture. The post stated the principal did not want to teach exam classes, not that the principal didn't have any teaching hours. It hasn't been established whether or not the principal has has hours in the past, or whether they have been getting away with not having to teach the last few years but due to cutbacks they now have to take on teaching hours.

If this is the case it wouldn't be uncommon for a principal to take a junior class instead of leaving certs, as they can get called away quite often as and a leaving cert group takes priority they don't want to leave them sitting there without a teacher. If this is the case then the permanent teacher will get preference for the hours not the part time teacher and there is no case.

As for 'not wanting to teach the harder subject' type stuff. Seriously? I would wonder at anyone who holds a degree in a subject and didn't want to teach it because it was 'hard'. How hard can it be if you have studied it to degree level?

Not saying the principal isn't taking away hours on purpose, but there could be a whole load of reasons for doing it that are being ignored here.

spurious · 26-05-2012 7:55pm

Augustine Hipp wrote: »

Thanks so much linguist. Really appreciate the advice.

Not such a small school. Partner fully qualified. Shared the subject with another, (who has CID). Enrolment steady or increasing. Bout the only thing is the principal is relatively new, having come from within.

I don't think partner wants to go down the union route if at all possible. Forgive my complete lack of experience, but, how does something like that actually work in real life? Surely a union call on the matter would really put the principals back up? Even if it did work.

I would be of the opinion that the union is the only way to fight this.

Chilli Con Kearney · 28-05-2012 12:18am

I thought that principals had received notice of allocations in February? That the department had changed the timing on such matters and as a result people would be informed earlier about hours, as opposed to the usual waiting around that goes on? Am I wrong on this?

Even if it was only notice re 70% of allocations, surely principals are still better placed to put staff out of their misery than previous years?

Augustine Hipp · 29-05-2012 12:32pm

Many thanks all, especially to linguist (Your post was very reassuring over the weekend).

Re: any other conjecture or reasons. There isn't any. Principal was quite up front with partner and told them they (principal) were taking some of the partners hours (the non exam classes) because they didn't want to teach their other subject. What isn't being said, but is pretty obvious, is the sudden change of direction this year being a CID year. If the partner receives the 22 hours they have had up til now, then the principal will have no other choice but to teach their disliked subject from then on in. Its essentially juggling the books/subject combos to suit themselves.

AFAIK, principal doesn't have to teach much. Just a few hours a week. The choice is between partners subject, and principals disliked subject.

Union is being contacted to see what they advise.

rainbowtrout · 29-05-2012 3:44pm

Augustine Hipp wrote: »

Many thanks all, especially to linguist (Your post was very reassuring over the weekend).

Re: any other conjecture or reasons. There isn't any. Principal was quite up front with partner and told them they (principal) were taking some of the partners hours (the non exam classes) because they didn't want to teach their other subject. What isn't being said, but is pretty obvious, is the sudden change of direction this year being a CID year. If the partner receives the 22 hours they have had up til now, then the principal will have no other choice but to teach their disliked subject from then on in. Its essentially juggling the books/subject combos to suit themselves.

AFAIK, principal doesn't have to teach much. Just a few hours a week. The choice is between partners subject, and principals disliked subject.

Union is being contacted to see what they advise.

Union probably is the only route so, but given that the principal is a permanent member of staff, they would get first preference on the hours and will probably use the reason 'to meet the needs of the school' to justify it.

While your partner should probably do what they can to maintain their hours I wouldn't be too confident in this situation.

I'm guessing your partner doesn't have the other subject, hence it not being a straight swap?

linguist · 30-05-2012 6:34pm

Only a few days ago I was here giving what passes for advice to others...what a difference a week makes. I am going into my CID year and facing a cut from 19 to 14 hours. Devastating! The school is in DEIS and has been very hard hit by cuts.

I now have to decide whether to hang on in there and try to build up again - enrolment is projected to increase - or go and see if I can find something better and start all over yet again! I have considerable financial commitments so this is a serious choice. Any thoughts?

carolzoo · 30-05-2012 7:23pm

Sorry to hear that linguist

are you going into year 4 or year 5?

linguist · 30-05-2012 7:28pm

Going into year 4. It just seems so unfair when you work for three years to get to this point to have it go wrong.

rainbowtrout · 30-05-2012 7:34pm

That's a pure balls linguist. I suppose in your situation, would you prefer to have a solid 14 hours for the next few years (minimum) or can you afford to take the risk of moving jobs this year, for more hours but without the security? If of course there's a job to move to.

carolzoo · 30-05-2012 7:39pm

i agree, it's a pure balls. yes that's your cid year alright unfortunately.

whiteandlight · 30-05-2012 7:40pm

That's absolutely crap, so sorry linguist

If you get 14hrs in your CID contract, what happens if you are assigned 22hrs of your own the following year, can your CID be updated/upgraded?

linguist · 30-05-2012 7:58pm

Well those are indeed the issues the I will have to grapple with over the summer. Can I say straight away that I'd really appreciate feedback from anyone with concrete experience or recommendations - by PM if necessary. I'll listen to every opinion.

Taking Musicmental85 first, the unions say that it is possible to get an 'enhanced' CID but they don't go into details. I understand that it can be done but I really don't fancy waiting years for it to happen.

rainbowtrout: I try to be optimistic and hopefully not naive. I have a good subject combination in the languages area and I genuinely believe that there will be opportunities this summer. educationposts.ie is encouraging in terms of the number of jobs up at this stage. I'm also told that, in Dublin, redeployment isn't really a big worry given the general rise in student numbers and expansion of schools. If I moved, the challenge would be to find something where both my subjects were rock solid in the curriculum of a school whose numbers were going in the right direction. It's a shame that so many of the new schools are VEC because of their internal moving about. I'd be most interested to enter into PM contact with anyone who can advise on Co. Dublin VEC in particular. As I said, all views welcome.

vamos! · 30-05-2012 8:03pm

Can't offer any advice but wanted to say that I am sorry to hear of people being screwed over in their CID year:mad: I hope something better and brighter comes up over the summer.

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