do you think your postman should deliver to you if you have a loose dog in garden?

barone · 28-03-2012 7:42pm #1

as title says, whats peoples take on this?

im a postman, deal with dogs all the time, love dogs,and have bred jack russells in the past for a few years so i know the temperament signs..

many many times ive been run at by dogs as i enter people's gardens.. never once has a dog been wearing a muzzle, i dont just mean a gated and walled garden.. i mean all gardens, walled,fenced,open.. housing estates,private houses.. even appartment blocks..

by run at i mean a direct run towards me with teeth showing,snarling, sometimes in almost silence..headdown and would snap ya if it got ya..

barking is ok, a warning to me.. lots of dogs pay no heed at all and some are fearfull.. most are the opposite.. will chase ..attempt to bite,prevent me delivering the post.. not just to their own house, but usually to within 4 or 5 houses once they spot you.. sometimes more..

if they pack up with other dogs and surround you its pretty fear inducing let me tell ya..

question is simple.. do the owners of these animals not even consider a postman/delivery person when they leave animals free to wander their general housing areas..

do you expect to still get your post,and your neighbours to get theirs?

would you prefer if the postman simply reported your dog,and you.. and informed your neighbours why they were not receiving their post?

and what if we are bitten???

happens more than you might think..

dog owners opinions here please.. if you were at work would you like my dog snapping around your ankles,or worse ???

unclebill98 · 28-03-2012 7:51pm

I would not expect my post to be delivered if I was the owner of a dog that would do such things to make them worry about their safety while delivery my mail.

I had a JR that would pull the post out of the letter box and rip it up. After a while the post man just left it on the door step. Don't blame them at all.

amber2 · 28-03-2012 7:55pm

No thats why we have a post box outside the gate......... Don't think you should have to put yourself in harms way. See some responsible dog owners do take your limbs into consideration

ppink · 28-03-2012 7:58pm

I would not expect to get post if I allowed my dogs out to bother the postman.

in fact our bin man years ago refused to collect from us as the dog was out one day when he came. the dog did not do anything but at the end of the day he has a job to do and should not have to deal with my choice of pet interfering or disrupting that.

barone · 28-03-2012 8:00pm

im well aware some do

, im also well used to the phrase "sure he/she wont bite" as they are barkin away ,and making inroads towards you.. even if they do not bite they make a postmans job pretty stressful thinking they might..

just want owners who dont think about it to actually give it some thought..

in france the posties have pepper spray for dogs !!

we dont have to enter any garden/area where there is a threatening dog..

there are plenty of owners who dont give it a second thought though.. hence thread

thanks for reading

gud4u · 28-03-2012 8:02pm

Definately NOT,

The owners should have a postbox up, the dogs at the back of the house(my scenario), or the dog socialised to you.

I know a road like the one you describe, about 6 houses, all have dogs and if you go for a walk and one starts barking they all gang up on you....the dog warden had to be called and everyone was warned to keep their dogs in.

In your case, inform the owner, there's no way you should have to put up with that.

caitmb · 28-03-2012 8:02pm

Absolutely not,no way anyone should risk life or limb to deliver a few bills or the like! Mine are out the back only,and the barking they give our postman,he probably needs earplugs!

evolutionqy7 · 28-03-2012 8:03pm

ppink wrote: »

I would not expect to get post if I allowed my dogs out to bother the postman

Agree. That's why my dog is always indoors, doesn't make lots of noise for my neighbours when im gone and he's only let out to the backgarden with a gate when were home.

I always house trained my dogs to live inside and ask when they want to go outside. This way no one has to listen to my dog barking outside or chasing cars, kids,bin man or the postman. Id completely understand if my postman chose not to deliver if he was bothered by our dog

I know my dog goes mental when he sees or hears the postman coming, but this is the reason why he's indoors.

ISDW · 28-03-2012 8:10pm

I think you should be able to do your job without fear of attack, from people or dogs.

It would be interesting to see how quickly the dogs were contained if the owners weren't getting any post. Although, maybe thats why I haven't got my household charge notification through the post ........... :P

barone · 28-03-2012 8:13pm

ISDW wrote: »

I think you should be able to do your job without fear of attack, from people or dogs.

It would be interesting to see how quickly the dogs were contained if the owners weren't getting any post. Although, maybe thats why I haven't got my household charge notification through the post ........... :P

junk mail is a whole other thread

bane of my life lol, have yet to meet someone who has welcomed it..

must have some effect though as it keeps comming

deandean · 28-03-2012 8:15pm

Its an interesting query OP, to add to the discussion please would you reply with what your employer advises intheir h&s statement and employee training as to how to deal with a loose dog in a front garden?

barone · 28-03-2012 8:19pm

deandean wrote: »

Its an interesting query OP, to add to the discussion please would you reply with what your employer advises intheir h&s statement and employee training as to how to deal with a loose dog in a front garden?

we do not have to enter an area with threatening dog/s full stop.

be madness to tell us otherwise

evilmonkee · 28-03-2012 8:56pm

No way should you have to put yourself at risk!

Funny, when I lived with my parents in the countryside, my father was friends with our postman and we knew the postman who would fill in when he was away.

So, one day a completely strange postman arrived down the driveway in his van. Our golden lifted his head on the doorstep and began to slowly wag his tail (expecting his usual scratch on the head), our tiny terrier ran over to the door of the van, attempting to get the first rub.

The post man beeped his horn and I walked over to the van before realizing it was a different person, I apologized for the little guy.. He laughed and said it was the big fella on the step he was scared of!

Mo60 · 28-03-2012 9:46pm

My dogs are let out into our garden, which is fully secure with a gate. Because they are often outside in the good weather we installed a postbox on the outside wall. They never attacked the postwoman, but would jump up when running to greet her leaving paw prints on her trousers.

Even so, if the postman/woman is unsure of the dog it must be unnerving to have to enter the garden. So I think anyone who leaves their dog loose in their garden should fix a postbox on the outside.

BroomBurner · 28-03-2012 10:16pm

OP, as a postman, have you come across the same issue, but with cats?

tipseymcT · 29-03-2012 1:17am

I used to be a postman.Only got bitten the once by a sheepdog right after the owner said "dont worry about her,she wont go near ya",she sunk her teeth into the back of my leg,leaving 4 teeth marks & a large bruise. I never got out of the van at that house again,I would sit outside & beep the horn,if nobody came out after around 30 seconds,i would drive off.
Most people would keep their dogs in or else have a postbox outside the gate,if i felt threatened in any way i would sit in the van beeping,if no one came then i would try again the next day.There was only 3 or 4 houses i had to do this in.
The jack russells & sheepdogs were the worst offenders.

barone · 29-03-2012 7:03am

BroomBurner wrote: »

OP, as a postman, have you come across the same issue, but with cats?

Just once..cat would wait beside postbox of house..postbox was low down..would slash at fingers and mail on delivery..

Strangest one was seagulls would attack when i was delivering to on top of a high rise building..appartments..

They had nested on roof..would dive bomb and drop **** on me and scream blue murder..

Only happend for one summer thankfully..them birds are big lol

Joe10000 · 29-03-2012 7:12am

We have a post box on the gate to avoid this situation.

How many more years will we have postmen ? It will seem quaint in the not too distant future.

SteppingStone · 29-03-2012 7:17am

definitely not. I have three dogs and wouldn't expect my postman to the enter the front garden if they were there.

TooManyDogs · 29-03-2012 9:11am

I don't care how well socialised or friendly dogs are the very nature of a postman's job can create defence aggression. A postman pulls up outside, dogs bark, postman goes away = success for the dog because it seems like they managed to scare the postman away not knowing that the postman was never going to stay anyway. Repeat this pattern every day and the dog often gets more confidence in their abilities to scare away the postman until the day the postman lingers slightly longer than usual and some dogs feel the need to up the strategy.

I know some people who leave a bucket of treats outside the gate so the postman can give treats to the dog so the dogs look forward to the postman arriving , it often works well but I think the safest is to put a postbox outside or keep the dogs inside.

Mollyd90 · 29-03-2012 10:00am

Mo60 wrote: »

My dogs are let out into our garden, which is fully secure with a gate. Because they are often outside in the good weather we installed a postbox on the outside wall. They never attacked the postwoman, but would jump up when running to greet her leaving paw prints on her trousers.

Even so, if the postman/woman is unsure of the dog it must be unnerving to have to enter the garden. So I think anyone who leaves their dog loose in their garden should fix a postbox on the outside.

+1

Meemars · 29-03-2012 10:44am

unclebill98 wrote: »

I would not expect my post to be delivered if I was the owner of a dog that would do such things to make them worry about their safety while delivery my mail.

I had a JR that would pull the post out of the letter box and rip it up. After a while the post man just left it on the door step. Don't blame them at all.

Our girl is an indoor dog, so she's not outside when the postman comes around. But she bombs down the hall barking and growling when the post or junkmail comes in. She's a big softie but it sounds horrendous and scary, and she's taken to biting the letters once they're inside.
Last week, in consideration of those delivering, we put up a mailbox on the external wall of the house. I felt mortified for the poor people trying to get stuff through our door. Now we have less drama all round.

Taceom · 29-03-2012 10:58am

OP I certainly wouldn't expect you are any worker to have to do their job in what they would consider an unsafe environment.
I had a terrible problem with my neighbours dogs a few years ago. They seemed really aggressive with any passers by. And while their owners said they would never bite, my children and others were always nervous passing by the house. And the postman had a particularly bad time there. I had asked the neighbours several times if they could keep their dogs in or at least contain them to the back of the house but my requests although listened to politely appeared to fall on the deaf ears.
That was until one day their dogs tried to prevent the postman delivering MY post. I lost the plot and roared over the wall at the neighbours to keep their f** dogs out of my garden. And there hasn't been a problem since. My neighbours have had to put a postbox outside their entrance and the dogs are kept to the back.

Sigma Force · 29-03-2012 4:37pm

If a Postie feels it's not safe then they shouldn't deliver and if owners complain they can always be given a written warning if a dog is narky.

OH is a postie and has had a few issues with dogs and has received his share of bites but he never took it further, obviously he won't deliver if a dog is narky but the problem is people leave their dogs out on the road there was one particularly vicious dog left out on the road all day hubby never got around to reporting it luckily the dog was gone after a few weeks..not the dogs fault it's the owners.

But most dogs on the route would be well used to him over the years, and when he did have problems at the beginning he just took some dog biscuits with him, so he's pretty popular with the dogs now even when he stopped giving them (if an owner has a problem with someone feeding their dog tough if they allow the dog to roam out on the road it's their own problem if the dog eats something imo). But OH knows the dogs in the area anyway.

There are a few cats that try to take a nap in the bike bag, none are narky. Not sure all posties would go to the trouble of bringing dog biscuits (he did get the p*ss taken out of him a few times but fek it it worked well for him.

.....Our own postie doesn't actually deliver to our house...although he'd be safe the sound alone is enough to scare them.

barone · 29-03-2012 7:44pm

Joe10000 wrote: »

We have a post box on the gate to avoid this situation.

How many more years will we have postmen ? It will seem quaint in the not too distant future.

hopefully many years to come..

i know a postie who brings broken up bits of chocolate in his pocket, and gives it to his regular on route dogs to keep them sweet (nice pun eh)

its the dog safe chocolate,he likes dogs..

its true you can get to know the dogs on your route ,and sometimes they will be happy to see you..

its the ones who are not behind a gate,and are free to wander that can be the problem.. they think the street is their territory and thats the problem..

they stop lots of people getting post,not just their owners

wish they would realise this.

are you serious · 29-03-2012 7:49pm

A friend of mine was a a postman there for a while.. D.A.L - dog at large... Surely you dont have to deliver to that house after that?

My postman is terrified of my dogs, even when they are looking out the window of my house at him

they wouldnt hurt a fly, I had them out one day during school hours nobody around, next of all postman slams closed my postbox and they ran over to lick the shoes off him, well he nearly wet himself, once he realised they were not going to do anything he walked off laughing at himself!! (But even now after that he still is afraid of them)

barone · 30-03-2012 7:24am

garkane wrote: »

A friend of mine was a a postman there for a while.. D.A.L - dog at large... Surely you dont have to deliver to that house after that?

My postman is terrified of my dogs, even when they are looking out the window of my house at him they wouldnt hurt a fly, I had them out one day during school hours nobody around, next of all postman slams closed my postbox and they ran over to lick the shoes off him, well he nearly wet himself, once he realised they were not going to do anything he walked off laughing at himself!! (But even now after that he still is afraid of them)

Must have had a bad previous experience with dogs id say..

Id always give a dog the benefit of the doubt and try deliver the mail..but when its obvious ur not welcome its not worth risking hours up in casulty for a tetanus shot. .. minimum .

Move on to the next house etc etc

callmekenneth · 30-03-2012 9:19am

my folks have a big garden and normally 2 boxers free in it, they go bananas when they see the post man which meant post wasnt being delivered, fair enough, so dad fixed a post box to the gate pillar, the gates are always closed, job done. it's not fair on the post man and ultimately means you wont get your post

saa · 30-03-2012 9:28am

Mo60 wrote: »

They never attacked the postwoman, but would jump up when running to greet her leaving paw prints on her trousers.

I'm surprised that many people would have their dogs in the front garden, but ha this comment reminded me of that kind of dog owner and when their dog is jumping up on you they just stand there like oh they wouldn't hurt a fly, I've also had a dog lick my legs and try to hump me while the owner stands back :pac: awkward, at least if they are a postman/woman they hopefully don't have the fear of dogs but its the dogs of owners who don't care and the postman cannot tell, if you don't care about your dog and just let it roam around its going to be badly behaved, the poster I quoted seems like a normal owner whose dogs are used to visitors but for the postman they should skip houses with dogs they don't know, I wonder do their managers see this issue in the same light?

ABajaninCork · 30-03-2012 10:15am

Our postman knows us. So does the dog. It doesn't stop him barking at the poor man though! I think it's because the dog is frustrated he can't actually say hello. Postie usually rings the bell if he has a parcel and we open the window to prevent to dog from going out.

The funniest thing - we often see the postman when out walking the dog. Dog goes mad wagging his tail and smiling at the postie!

Don't know what the rules are here but in the UK, Royal Mail can and will blacklist you if there is the possibility of attack (dog OR human!

). I know of at least two estates where I come from that are totally blacklisted. No postmen or delivery men will go near the place. Normally you're told to pick up your post at the main sorting office.

Dog owners in the UK have actually been sued by postmen unfortunate enough to suffer dog attacks. Perhaps the same should happen here. Then thoughtless owners would take more responsibility for controlling their dogs.

Postmen, Utility workers, delivery men have the right to carry out their duties without fear of attack.

Mo60 · 30-03-2012 1:02pm

saa wrote: »

I'm surprised that many people would have their dogs in the front garden, but ha this comment reminded me of that kind of dog owner and when their dog is jumping up on you they just stand there like oh they wouldn't hurt a fly, I've also had a dog lick my legs and try to hump me while the owner stands back :pac: awkward, at least if they are a postman/woman they hopefully don't have the fear of dogs but its the dogs of owners who don't care and the postman cannot tell, if you don't care about your dog and just let it roam around its going to be badly behaved, the poster I quoted seems like a normal owner whose dogs are used to visitors but for the postman they should skip houses with dogs they don't know, I wonder do their managers see this issue in the same light?

I live in a rural area in a house that does not have a fence between the back and front, quite a normal occurrence. When my dogs are out I am always around.

My dogs are well behaved and even though the postwoman knows the dogs and is not frightened of them, I still decided to fix a postbox outside.

iguana · 30-03-2012 1:55pm

My dogs are never in the front garden unattended. They have free run of the back garden and part of the side gardens but they are enclosed and they have no access to the front or to the side where my gas meter and bins are.

I'm curious as to what the people with post boxes at their front gate do about parcels. Do you have a buzzer/intercom by the postbox? Or do you just accept having to collect parcels from the post office?

barone · 30-03-2012 4:02pm

ironic that today would be my worst day with dogs in a while at work, same house in same estate.. dog is very aggressive when inside and see's you comming.. i still deliver their post when he is inside growling..barking etc..

last week or so they have for some reason decided he can sit on the front step of the house..right at the front door.. its a big black lab..male.

if ever a dog was making his 'turf' by his posture its this lad.. worst of all he's sitting in the last house of a u shaped row of ten houses,and has full view of me as i turn the corner.. ears cock..low grumble ..hair stands..
i walk a few steps and he stands and points snout right at me..tail straight up..takes one step forward and i stop and turn around.. none of them get their post today..

i know its exactly what he wants..i.e me to leave his patch.. i dont care,im goin..not my problem,not risking it.. ive learned that the closer i get the more he gets ready to show who's boss.

dog 2.
black male sheepdog cross.. usually has a brown bitch in tow, he has a collar and nametag so has a owner.. ive seen them running through a area i deliver to,consisting of 4 housing estates.. nice enough area..

dont know where they come from or where they are going but they remind me of a couple of joggers doing there morning run,they seem to know where they are going and how much time they have to get there..

problem is the male has decided im his enemy, i havent said boo to him,its just that the bitch was beside me on our first meeting (she's harmless) he took offence to that and took a lunge at me..since then every time ive seen them he makes it his buisness to have a go.. well today i seen him,alone.. he wasnt running but just sniffin the grass and having a wander.. spots me and turns around and walks off.. "brilliant" says i to myself, he's grown tired of giving out to me..

no such luck, i continued on delivering.. 2 minutes later i exited a garden and boom the basturd was all in my face roaring,spit flying from him.. what could i do i got such a fright i raised the bike from the ground and lunged it at him.. didnt hit him but he backed off,stopped barking,just growled.. i slowly just walked away and hopped on the bike when i hit the corner.. didnt see him after that, thats someones lovley pet, thanks.

dog 3. yes all happend today,all within 1 hour aswell.

smallish old crossbred terrier.. usually sits at his window and gives out when he see's me,been out a couple of times and rushes at me barking but always stops when he gets close and proudly walks to his house to guard it..

same craic today,did exactly as above except the owner came out and made things worse ..dog actually lunged to bite me as the owner got close to him..obvious what was happening,always happens this way.owner comes out,tells off the dog ,and as owner gets closer to me dog gets more aggressive,owner roars at dog and dog gets hyper excited and goes for me..

was really pissed off by this stage and let the owner know in curt language that if it happend again i would report him and dog to my bosses and the warden..he was about to say something ,im guessing along the lines of "he would never bite"etc etc when he realised his dog and he were totaly at fault and he then just agreed with my threat..

then he started to call the dog and its name is so unusual i almost burst out laughing,couldnt post it here for fear their is no other dog alive called this and i get done for revealing it online lol.

just a note to dog owners who may not realise.. the nice calm friendly dog you take for walks on the lead our in the park,who are friendly or at the very least non aggressive to anyone or animal, is a completely different animal when its let roam and 'protect its patch' mode is engaged.. completely

you may not even realise it,which is why you cant let them free to roam.

thanks for reading.

Mo60 · 30-03-2012 4:03pm

iguana wrote: »

I'm curious as to what the people with post boxes at their front gate do about parcels. Do you have a buzzer/intercom by the postbox? Or do you just accept having to collect parcels from the post office?

No problem, just collect from the local post office.

Karlitto · 30-03-2012 4:32pm

barone wrote: »

as title says, whats peoples take on this?

im a postman, deal with dogs all the time, love dogs,and have bred jack russells in the past for a few years so i know the temperament signs..

many many times ive been run at by dogs as i enter people's gardens.. never once has a dog been wearing a muzzle, i dont just mean a gated and walled garden.. i mean all gardens, walled,fenced,open.. housing estates,private houses.. even appartment blocks..

by run at i mean a direct run towards me with teeth showing,snarling, sometimes in almost silence..headdown and would snap ya if it got ya..

barking is ok, a warning to me.. lots of dogs pay no heed at all and some are fearfull.. most are the opposite.. will chase ..attempt to bite,prevent me delivering the post.. not just to their own house, but usually to within 4 or 5 houses once they spot you.. sometimes more..

if they pack up with other dogs and surround you its pretty fear inducing let me tell ya..

question is simple.. do the owners of these animals not even consider a postman/delivery person when they leave animals free to wander their general housing areas..

do you expect to still get your post,and your neighbours to get theirs?

would you prefer if the postman simply reported your dog,and you.. and informed your neighbours why they were not receiving their post?

and what if we are bitten???

happens more than you might think..

dog owners opinions here please.. if you were at work would you like my dog snapping around your ankles,or worse ???

Hi there Barone,

Firstly, I don't mean to be ignorant, but I have not read any other reply to this post as I am short on time.

I am a dog owner and lover.

When you are talking about private property (so mainly gardens) if a dog even seems to be aggresive, no, I do not believe you should deliver the mail, plain and simple. If there is a possibility you could get injured, it's not worth it....it may be your job....but at the end of the day, your health is your wealth.

However, I do think there needs to be a line drawn, in estates or appartment complexes (the dogs should not be let run free either way) but, its a public road/street, so, at the end of the day, its not the persons fault that your delivering to, just one irresponsible person. I know this is somewhat contradictory to what I just said about you getting injured, but, after all, you could meet a dog anywhere on a street, even outside your sorting office, so you need to draw a line.

There are a couple of things you could do, firstly, if a dog is let loose in a garden and there is no external postbox, you don't need to deliver, secondly, if a dog is roaming free on the street, be it an estate or a main road, you can call the local county council dog warden (or police) and inform them. It is an offense to let a dog run free.

Now, if you still deliver, there are a few things you can do to help (can increase your route time, but may be worth it in the long run for you)

First thing to do is, when you are approaching the garden and the dog starts barking, do not look at it, walk over to the gate and look up the street with your side to the gate, mostlikley s/he is curious or afraid, doing this will give the dog a chance to sniff you. When it has stopped barking, you can slowley enter the garden, take a step or two inside and let the dog sniff you, then when he walks away, your free to go about your normal business.

Secondly, I know it's not exactly your job description, but it kind of comes with the territory, no pun intended, you could bring some peices of doggy treats to bribe them with.

Also, when you are leaving, if there is a stick or a toy, you can throw it and immediately leave. So, the last thing the dog remembers from you is playing with you, so the next time you arrive, he will remember that.

One other point, even when you are walking into the garden, if the dog seems anxious, don't make eye contact, and walk in with either your side or back facing it. If you walk in frontward staring at it, that is confrontational.

Hope this helps, let me know how you get on.

ABajaninCork · 30-03-2012 5:26pm

barone wrote: »

was really pissed off by this stage and let the owner know in curt language that if it happend again i would report him and dog to my bosses and the warden..he was about to say something ,im guessing along the lines of "he would never bite"etc etc when he realised his dog and he were totaly at fault and he then just agreed with my threat...

Well. I wouldn't threaten. I would most certainly mention it to my bosses, preferably in writing. I assume some kind of report would have to be made when you returned with the undelivered mail. I would also make a report to the dog warden. Threaten to sue the owner (if found) though...

Look at it this way. What if the dog followed through and actually bit you?

Sigma Force · 30-03-2012 8:21pm

Dog owners can be sued by the post office here, they are usually given a written warning and plenty of scope to control their dog. Not all posties report bites either which imo they should. One guy was pinned up against a wall, loads are bitten happens all the time. Owners need to keep their dogs in, lets face it most posties deliver around the same time every day so people know what times to keep their dogs in.

Not only posties who suffer, the selfish people who allow their dogs to roam also prevent anyone walking their dogs or walking in general on being able to move freely through a town or estate or village. Many are totally oblivious I really don't know what's going through some owners heads do they think they own the roads. It's a real pet peeve of mine, not to mention the poop left behind.

If we'd better legislation and stricter rules for people allowing their dogs to roam unsupervised we'd all have an easier life.

saa · 30-03-2012 9:29pm

Mo60 wrote: »

I live in a rural area in a house that does not have a fence between the back and front, quite a normal occurrence. When my dogs are out I am always around.

My dogs are well behaved and even though the postwoman knows the dogs and is not frightened of them, I still decided to fix a postbox outside.

I grew up in the country and everyone I knew with open gardens built a fenced area for their dogs but mostly to stop them escaping but sure the outside post box solves that, I think its a rare occurrance for a pet to attack but its more of an inconvience not talking about your dogs specifically but most do not like visitors!

Mo60 · 30-03-2012 10:46pm

saa wrote: »

I grew up in the country and everyone I knew with open gardens built a fenced area for their dogs but mostly to stop them escaping but sure the outside post box solves that, I think its a rare occurrance for a pet to attack but its more of an inconvience not talking about your dogs specifically but most do not like visitors!

My garden is fully secure even though it is a large area. My dogs do actually like visitors and one can be over friendly and put up her paws. It was because of this that I put up the postbox, as I explained in a previous post.

I do understand that some people can be nervous with dogs, whether or not the dogs are friendly.

do you think your postman should deliver to you if you have a loose dog in garden?

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