Cost of setting up a website.

shawnee · 17-04-2008 6:35pm #1

I am setting up an alternative health business and I want to set up a website . The site will be probably about three to five pages and will be an information only site, which will show my telephone number. As I am costing this venture at present, any ideas where I can get a quality site set up without spending over 500 euro. I want it to be easily found on Google and yahoo. Would appreciate any ideas or help.

heggie · 17-04-2008 7:08pm

to be blunt, you can't.

mrfreddred · 17-04-2008 7:27pm

To be a bit less blunt.....domain reg and hosting will cost circa 150 euro and webpage design for a 5 page site will normally be about 1k mark at least. SEO (search engine optimisation) is the magical stuff that gets your website listed in Google and this will cost some more.....

That's not to say that you cant get a website for 500 eur but it wont look great or get many hits.

I advise doing a Google search for web designers in yiour region or going to someone who has already had one done....

Adam · 17-04-2008 7:55pm

Quite to the contrary, you could get a very nice looking site. There are freelancers in the states that will design and code very nicely on both accounts for circa the $100 mark. SEO etc. I agree with you, but with some decent research you could do it yourself. There are no hidden secrets, it's all well documented.

I guess my point is, there are always options.

Feelgood · 17-04-2008 8:01pm

Web Hosting = €150 (max).

Pre-built professional templates for a website can be bought for around €30 and all you have to do is fill in your own details and possibly edit a jpeg or two using photoshop. (http://www.templatemonster.com/)

Total Cost: €180

Bob the Builder · 17-04-2008 8:02pm

well you'l have a continous running cost of about 120 to 150 euro per year for website hosting... there's designers out there that will do one for 200 euro, a decent, nice basic website...

heggie · 17-04-2008 9:41pm

you're all missing the key word : QUALITY

zokrez · 17-04-2008 10:14pm

Have a look at kildeal.ie. I know nothing about them but found them on adwords. Alternatively If you look at blacknight or hosting 365 or one of the other hosters they have site builders that you can do your self. I am presuming if you rang the help desk they would help you get the site online. I have never done it myself though.

m83 · 17-04-2008 11:18pm

heggie wrote: »

you're all missing the key word : QUALITY

Irish prices can easily be beaten when out sourcing to foreign developers. This is a simple fact that has nothing to do with quality.

shawnee · 17-04-2008 11:39pm

Reading the replies given , I am still confused. I do not feel qualified to set up one myself, however thanks for the information and I will check out the sites and I am aware what information I want on the site. So perhaps it is not quite as difficult as I think it is. I have no difficulty with paying for hosting and I am prepared to pay for the site to gain priority in searches. I don't want to pay 1500 for something that could be done for half that price. I am setting this up and need to be conscious of the costs.

smemon · 17-04-2008 11:50pm

Quality is in the eye of the beholder. Because you're paying €500 to an Irish company doesn't mean you're getting quality.

A basic 5 page site could be done for under $200. Fact. Quality also.

You could get hosting for under $100/year.

$300 i reckon would get you a professional site. Custom built. Hosting and all. You'd also be a fool NOT to go american with the current exchange rates...

pm me if you want more info on how & where to start looking

heggie · 18-04-2008 12:17am

why pm? show me a quality site done for 200. OP, honestly you're wasting your 500 euro, wait until you can afford a proper service.

tricky D · 18-04-2008 1:05am

I can't get the words 'false economy' out of my head. Your time is valuable (your website should also be) - especially when in start-up mode - you have many things to do. Do you want to be trying to half learn about coding, graphics, readability, form submission scripts, search engine optimisation and so on? This all takes more time than you think and is a significant opportunity cost against you. While comparing to 'bricks and mortar' it is not perfect, would you construct your premises to suit your business needs or get a builder?

If I was doing this at this kind of price (on v the cheap to be blunt), I would have a quick chat on the phone, tell you to send me biz plan and any brochure stuff. If you have some good content, you won't spend at the very least 100euros extra - quality seo oriented content costs a lot, no matter who develops it. If you don't have your logo and identity sorted, you're in a different league - add hundreds at least. You'd get a very basic template, lucky to get any significant redesign. Basic form, basic search engine processing, basic graphic treatment, basic everything. Considering hosting costs too, $120, subtracted from 500 bucks, I wouldn't get out of bed if it was going to take more than 5 hours dev total (established in that first brief phonecall). You could find cheaper in Ireland, but quality and time costs. You'll find even cheaper abroad, but with cultural differences and cheapness, you risk quality (good luck there if you so choose).

In brief, you need to seriously work out how much of your time this is all going cost you, what you could be doing instead, how much time you're going to spend on researching prices and quality, and how much you can rely on that research.

I could go on, but that'll cost you

hth
\r

smemon · 18-04-2008 1:09am

heggie wrote: »

why pm? show me a quality site done for 200. OP, honestly you're wasting your 500 euro, wait until you can afford a proper service.

I can't off the top of my head think of a particular site which was done for 'x' amount.

But i've got several designs done through outsourcing and i've been happy with them all. We're talking about students, people getting in to freelance, looking to build up portfolios...

elance, rentacoder, sitepoint, digitalpoint... all excellent resources with loads of talented people willing to work for peanuts.

You can't value a site or determine it's quality based on what you spend on it which is what you're suggesting.

We're talking about a simple 5 page site, with i'm guessing static content...

Paying more than €500 for that is insane imo. The OP wants bang for the buck, like everyone does. I'm telling him he'll get that if he looks outside Ireland and away from professional companies.

If the site is custom designed to the OP's liking, validates properly and is well SEO'd, it's job done.

I'm saying if i were to come along wanting a site like this i could get it done for $300 comfortably.

Decent custom design - $70.
Slicing and dicing/coding - $50.
SEO - $20.
Hosting - $100.
.com Domain - $6.

tricky D · 18-04-2008 1:14am

from your blog

smemon wrote: »

I got 43% in an xhtml exam which is pretty pathetic really.

Quality:rolleyes:

smemon · 18-04-2008 8:58am

tricky D wrote: »

from your blog

Quality:rolleyes:

And? we all gotta start somewhere and i'm sure you weren't born with xhtml yourself.

Anyway, that has nothing to do with anything... i didn't say *I* do coding or design at that price, i specifically said i outsourced it and could easily get 100% valid XHTML & CSS at that price.

To show you the gulf in prices OP, just look for a dot com domain name in Ireland (with an Irish company). You'll pay about €6 minimum -v- $6 in the US which is about €4.

Instant saving, all be it on a tiny scale. But that's what you gotta look at if you're on a budget - save wherever you can.

heggie · 18-04-2008 10:23am

smemon wrote: »

You can't value a site or determine it's quality based on what you spend on it which is what you're suggesting.

Not at all, and I never suggested that, there are cowboys who charge 200, and there are cowboys who charge 2000. I didn't think you could list any sites, the beer site in your sig, if that is one you are referring to, looks like it cost 200. Just because someone has the software, or coding skills doesn't make a good design.

Anyway, I'm sure the OP has enough information to make a choice on which route they want to go. I would just like to say, that a website costing 500 may damage your business more than having no website at all.

Axwell · 18-04-2008 11:18am

Not to go way off topic or thred hijack either but you say on your site "beerchief" that you are creating the worlds only online pub. Hardly true since anyone else could come up with the same idea, so maybe you should say first online pub. But then after a search on google i found that wasnt true either http://www.fubar.com/ - just thought you would like to know in case you want to change your wording.

Adam · 18-04-2008 11:23am

Axwell wrote: »

Not to go way off topic or thred hijack either but you say on your site "beerchief" that you are creating the worlds only online pub. Hardly true since anyone else could come up with the same idea, so maybe you should say first online pub. But then after a search on google i found that wasnt true either http://www.fubar.com/ - just thought you would like to know in case you want to change your wording.

Oh don't worry, we know all about fubar.com, just weren't really worried with the wording. They claim to be an online bar, we went with pub, I doubt they're going to kick up much of a fuss!

EKRIUQ · 18-04-2008 11:42am

But in the current age of opensource its very easy to get a very powerful CMS website with a nice design set up very cheaply.

Hosting package with an install script for a content management system and there you go! a customisable website for under €100 All you have to do is replace the header image and its a starting point

Web designers are getting overtaken by advances in the internet and the need for a huge knowledge of xhtml and css is less relevant to people editing there website and with the flood of cheap website templates any body can have a professional website at a very cheap site.

A lot of web designers aren’t happy with this and any body can be a web designer these days.

heggie · 18-04-2008 12:02pm

BingoBongo wrote: »

A lot of web designers aren’t happy with this and any body can be a web designer these days.

The thing is, they cant, and it shows. You're naive to think that just because you can through something up on the web means it's a professional bespoke website, and templates? Come on! The web industry in Ireland is going very well, and I don't thing anyone that knows their salt is affected by the above post.

niceirishfella · 18-04-2008 12:08pm

BingoBongo wrote: »

But in the current age of opensource its very easy to get a very powerful CMS website with a nice design set up very cheaply.

Hosting package with an install script for a content management system and there you go! a customisable website for under €100 All you have to do is replace the header image and its a starting point

Web designers are getting overtaken by advances in the internet and the need for a huge knowledge of xhtml and css is less relevant to people editing there website and with the flood of cheap website templates any body can have a professional website at a very cheap site.

A lot of web designers aren’t happy with this and any body can be a web designer these days.

+1 - Totally agree.
Companies like Bluevoda and the like are good in my experience and host my site and one of their freelance designers did my site for me. There's a rip off culture out there in irish web design as they thought for a long time that no-one could do what they do so lets charge 1 or 2k for a site....i've had those figures thrown at me but with a simple google search - you'll find what you need for a fraction of the cost..........fancy or no fancy website

Adam · 18-04-2008 12:27pm

niceirishfella wrote: »

+1 - Totally agree.
Companies like Bluevoda and the like are good in my experience and host my site and one of their freelance designers did my site for me. There's a rip off culture out there in irish web design as they thought for a long time that no-one could do what they do so lets charge 1 or 2k for a site....i've had those figures thrown at me but with a simple google search - you'll find what you need for a fraction of the cost..........fancy or no fancy website

+1 also

I find whenever a discussion regarding prices in Ireland crop up, it's the one's that make their money from the industry in Ireland that get overly defensive, and critical of anything that costs less than 'x' amount of money. They can't/won't accept the fact that there are people out there that are as good/better than them and yet are under cutting them price wise. It's a touch immature in my opinion. If you can live off it, great. But don't try and tell anyone that comes along that you just can't get it cheaper, and if you do it will be crap. This is not true.

heggie · 18-04-2008 12:31pm

really Mirror? still waiting for ONE example from anyone

It's not about anyone getting defensive, it's about educating people that good design has value, and design is a concept that most people who have posted here seem to have missed. I'm yet to see any counter to that argument

tricky D · 18-04-2008 12:33pm

Providing web business solutions >>> web design

niceirishfella · 18-04-2008 12:41pm

heggie wrote: »

really Mirror? still waiting for ONE example from anyone

It's not about anyone getting defensive, it's about educating people that good design has value, and design is a concept that most people who have posted here seem to have missed. I'm yet to see any counter to that argument

Heggie, you're wrong - and you are being Defensive - and shure why would'nt you be?! - your livliehood is at stake here cos people are copping on.........the game is up...........sorry, but don't shoot the messenger.

heggie · 18-04-2008 12:43pm

post of the day well done!

Adam · 18-04-2008 12:49pm

heggie wrote: »

really Mirror? still waiting for ONE example from anyone

It's not about anyone getting defensive, it's about educating people that good design has value, and design is a concept that most people who have posted here seem to have missed. I'm yet to see any counter to that argument

One example of what, exactly? If you're going to get so uppity about it. Come down off your high horse there and come to terms with what you're asking for. Do you expect me to say 'Ok, here's a site I got an Irish crowd to build. And here's the same site, built by a company in Romania!'. Why would I have that? And therefore, how would I have hard examples?

I can tell you, I'm having something built that I wrote up a technical specifications document for well in advance of and in great detail. It's being built by an outsourced company, for under one fifth of that quoted by several Irish counterparts.

nikimere · 18-04-2008 12:50pm

Damn i better start looking for a new job... :rolleyes:

Do you people think Ireland being more expensive for services than other countries in something nobody knew about!? lol!
Of course it is cheaper in other countries, the cost of living and doing business in other countries is also cheaper.

Adam · 18-04-2008 12:50pm

niceirishfella wrote: »

Heggie, you're wrong - and you are being Defensive - and shure why would'nt you be?! - your livliehood is at stake here cos people are copping on.........the game is up...........sorry, but don't shoot the messenger.

heggie wrote: »

post of the day well done!

Freudian slip in post form methinks... :rolleyes:

heggie · 18-04-2008 12:51pm

An example of a sub 500 euro website. either one of your own, or outsourced, or whatever

EKRIUQ · 18-04-2008 12:56pm

I think its good that web designer’s come one here to defend their occupation, and if I was one I would too, maybe they should be arguing they give support and feedback and will work with the customer as their main selling point instead of undermining their competition here or worldwide

It’s easy to say

good design has value, and design is a concept that most people who have posted here seem to have missed

Design is subjective and open to criticism I might think Andy Warhole’s work is rubbish but then I’ll have an artist saying I don’t understand the value of the work.

To me one of the most important things is usability and content and that it serves the purpose that the website is intended. As for bespoke design, boards.ie looks the same as thousands other bulletin boards with a bit of branding at the top but what makes it successful is its content and ease of use.

niceirishfella · 18-04-2008 12:56pm

SO you have all your mates (who you have waiting in the wings)with "vested interests" are poised to be pedantic and pick and poke at examples...........errrrmmmmm no thanks......i know what i know, and ye are not fooling anyone......

The Games UP!!

nikimere · 18-04-2008 12:59pm

Forget your local butcher! You can get a chicken half the price in India!

Adam · 18-04-2008 1:00pm

heggie wrote: »

An example of a sub 500 euro website. either one of your own, or outsourced, or whatever

Ok, www.discoroyale.net. $70. Argue with that.

heggie · 18-04-2008 1:01pm

niceirishfella, your contributing nothing,
to BingoBongo, your right about boards, boards uses a template that was DESIGNED with usability and content in mind. In many cases there is no point re-inventing the wheel. Boards was designed, not specifically for boards.ie, but it was designed.

A common misconception is that design is subjective, largely it's not. Good design techniques are based on understanding of eye paths, typography, grid systems etc.

Any Warhole is Art. Art is not Design. Art is subjective, design is not for the most part.

It's interesting to see that you view usability as separate from design, web design should include visual elements, information architecture and usability among other factors.

Adam · 18-04-2008 1:01pm

nikimere wrote: »

Forget your local butcher! You can get a chicken half the price in India!

Absolutely and ridiculously out of context. You've just made yourself look silly.

heggie · 18-04-2008 1:03pm

Mirror wrote: »

Ok, www.discoroyale.net. $70. Argue with that.

You could, and probably will say that for $70 its a lot of work done. It is, but imo it's $70 wasted. Its nowhere near as good as it could or should be.

Adam · 18-04-2008 1:05pm

heggie wrote: »

You could, and probably will say that for $70 its a lot of work done. It is, but imo it's $70 wasted. Its nowhere near as good as it could or should be.

So what would you do better, and what would the price suddenly become?

heggie · 18-04-2008 1:06pm

I have no brief, but there is no visually appealing structure to that site. who's getting silly now?

Adam · 18-04-2008 1:10pm

heggie wrote: »

I have no brief, but there is no visually appealing structure to that site. who's getting silly now?

Visual appeal != design, and is therefore arguably subjective.

I fail to see how I'm being silly though. I think arguing the absolute bargain that site is, despite it's shortcomings, is silly. Double the money. Or triple it. Pay $400 - $500 dollars and what can you get? A lot more than you would get for the same in euro.

EKRIUQ · 18-04-2008 1:11pm

heggie wrote: »

An example of a sub 500 euro website. either one of your own, or outsourced, or whatever

www.Holidaylookers.com and www.IrishWebDesign.net

Both mine, all they cost me was my time and a domain name for €5.95 and both on a shared hosting package so hosting is about €10 per year. I'm not looking for a review as I'm not a web designer just showing whats possible on the cheap with templates.

niceirishfella · 18-04-2008 1:12pm

Mirror wrote: »

So what would you do better, and what would the price suddenly become?

Heggies (and his cartel) price would be circa €950?

ohhhh, and dont forget the VAT!:eek:

Adam · 18-04-2008 1:15pm

It's all horribly elitist.

And one thing that bugs me somewhat is the fact that heggie, for all his nay saying and general strutting around these parts, has never to my knowledge put any of his work under the boards eye. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember thinking that a long time ago.

niceirishfella · 18-04-2008 1:23pm

heggie wrote: »

You could, and probably will say that for $70 its a lot of work done. It is, but imo it's $70 wasted. Its nowhere near as good as it could or should be.

Heggie, FFS, with this comment re; the disco site, you are contributing nothing!

You just dont get it. This guy has a good functional website for his mobile disco business. He does not need it to FLASH this, and Fancy that.......he will not get anymore business that way. For his money, he got what he needs and to me, it looks good.

And thats it.............your arguement is in tatters here.

Liam Byrne · 18-04-2008 1:23pm

Mirror wrote: »

Visual appeal != design, and is therefore arguably subjective.

I fail to see how I'm being silly though. I think arguing the absolute bargain that site is, despite it's shortcomings, is silly. Double the money. Or triple it. Pay $400 - $500 dollars and what can you get? A lot more than you would get for the same in euro.

Depends on what you view as its "shortcomings".

I did a quick search for "dublin djs" and there was no sign of that site; so is it still worth paying for/having ?

Personally, I don't like the colours/layout, but then I occasionally don't like the choices made by some of our clients, so that is, indeed, subjective.

But you do need some chance of being found in order to make a website worthwhile.

Adam · 18-04-2008 1:31pm

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Depends on what you view as its "shortcomings".

I did a quick search for "dublin djs" and there was no sign of that site; so is it still worth paying for/having ?

Personally, I don't like the colours/layout, but then I occasionally don't like the choices made by some of our clients, so that is, indeed, subjective.

But you do need some chance of being found in order to make a website worthwhile.

Agreed, and that was my primary thought when I mentioned shortcomings. There is absolutely no SEO gone in to that site. It's also up no more that two weeks. But if you had seen the abomination that had been there before it, it was the kind of site that would actually drive you away. I'm talking the old school center aligned text down the middle of the page, blue/purple text on black background, haphazard bad quality images, truly awful! And it wasn't optimized at all, that's for sure.

So for $70, at least now there is a site that, while it's design may not be too appealing, actually looks relatively professional, and doesn't give off the impression that the service is just a bunch of yahoo's on dodgy desks. You know? That, to me, is well worth the price.

nikimere · 18-04-2008 1:33pm

This argument is stupid.
Great you can get a template for $50 or less.

If i were starting a business i would not skimp on image. Just like i wouldn't skimp on a good accountant.
Buying a template means having to customise it yourself, some people cant and just shouldn't (because of lack of required skills) do that.
If you outsource development more than likely your going to have trouble getting support, you have to deal with time differences and you also run the risk of being done-over with no door to knock on. At the end of the day, as a consumer i would prefere to deal face to face than with someone on the other side of the world, especially when it is for something that is as important as my business.

Paying a local web dev company to design & develop a website is a worth while investment, so long as you shop around. You have to pay people for their time and time in Ireland isn't cheap, unfortunately.

Saying that the whole industry is coming to an end because you can out-source at a cheaper rate is a stupid comment, and it just wont happen.

If you dont mind your site looking like a few hundred (sometimes thousands) others then work away with a template. I personally wouldn't be into that.

stooge · 18-04-2008 1:34pm

@Liam Byrne -

If you search for 'dublin disco' it is the 4th link
If you search for 'dublin karaoke' it is the 5th link

Good looking site, and excellent value for money. Right down the OP's street I'd imagine.

niceirishfella · 18-04-2008 1:36pm

stooge wrote: »

@Liam Byrne -

If you search for 'dublin disco' it is the 4th link
If you search for 'dublin karaoke' it is the 5th link

Good looking site, and excellent value for money. Right down the OP's street I'd imagine.

+1 - i agree.

Adam · 18-04-2008 1:44pm

stooge wrote: »

@Liam Byrne -

If you search for 'dublin disco' it is the 4th link
If you search for 'dublin karaoke' it is the 5th link

Good looking site, and excellent value for money. Right down the OP's street I'd imagine.

Well look at that!

The benefits of decent markup, eh?

nikimere wrote:

This argument is stupid.
Great you can get a template for $50 or less.

If i were starting a business i would not skimp on image. Just like i wouldn't skimp on a good accountant.
Buying a template means having to customise it yourself, some people cant and just shouldn't (because of lack of required skills) do that.
If you outsource development more than likely your going to have trouble getting support, you have to deal with time differences and you also run the risk of being done-over with no door to knock on. At the end of the day, as a consumer i would prefere to deal face to face than with someone on the other side of the world, especially when it is for something that is as important as my business.

Paying a local web dev company to design & develop a website is a worth while investment, so long as you shop around. You have to pay people for their time and time in Ireland isn't cheap, unfortunately.

Saying that the whole industry is coming to an end because you can out-source at a cheaper rate is a stupid comment, and it just wont happen.

If you dont mind your site looking like a few hundred (sometimes thousands) others then work away with a template. I personally wouldn't be into that.

Nobody said that, I am all for keeping work in Ireland, I do the job myself, though as a spare time thing. And I don't believe it is/will die in this country, I just take issue with heggies very first response to the OP, "you can't". This is absolutely false, and unfair to the OP when he's just looking for some sound advice.

You're dead right, there are chances to be taken when outsourcing, but if you ask for advice, it is an option, and can be a complete success, or an absolute failure, but to be honest, the failure comes in to play when the client just doesn't know what they want a lot of the time, and anyone can make a mess of it then, and the client is to blame. If you're clear and concise with what you want, the whole process will probably go very smoothly.

Cost of setting up a website.

Comments