Right.....here it goes.

funky penguin · 22-03-2012 2:34am

Christ almighty, you want stress? Hang around a staff room in a JHS in Japan at the end of the academic year. The week leading up to graduation on the 10th, and from then on, has been incredibly busy. Teachers changing schools, 3rd graders emotional farewell and 1st graders going absolutely crazy. Like bloody animals.

I reached the 750 mark on schedule but now I'm still in 766 ( just at the end of lesson 23, the longest so far). I've kept up with my reviews, but that's about it. Today I have some free time, so hopefully I'll make a little progress.

Re the sentences....

A mate here has successfully used the ajatt method so I pick his brains a lot. I noticed I just wasn't getting the sentences right at all. He told me I was picking sentences that were just too hard. Most had 2 compound kanji in them, always brand new. I need to do simpler ones with one kanji and build my confidence. THEN I use the kanji compounds in used to in new sentences with another compound, effectively building upon my foundations. Makes sense.

To be honest, I think I'm going to leave the sentences for a little bit. I'll look into them again around the 1,000 kanji mark.

Now, im reading the デスノート漫画. I watched the series moths ago, before I started studying so I know the story. I'm just reading through to get used to reading more than anything else. I can't sayI understand it, but small things are getting through. Small goals and all that.

Ps sorry for any typos, hurriedly written on the phone.

funky penguin · 22-03-2012 6:26am

Ha! So heisig admits lesson 23 was very difficult......so I think he purposefully eased off in lesson 24.

800!

Actually writing that feels brilliant, and it's greet to be able to quantify progress. I'm thinking (hoping) that I'll reach 1,000 in two weeks time. That'll be a moment to really savor. I'm finally seeing khazumoto's method at work. The small goals and regular para on the back make you realize that any step, no matter how small is a step in te right direction, so should be celebrated.

Conversational Japanese is starting to permeate as well, and I'm fortunate to be living here for that extra help. Talking about kanji is a usual topic of conversation, and they think it's hilarious I can write the kanji but rarely pronounce it in Japanese. All in good time....

I can't wait to get this language down. I did French through 2ndary school (and Irish of course) but this is the most effort I've ever put into learning a language.

funky penguin · 22-03-2012 10:25am

On a side note (and sorry for spamming today), I came across this website today:

http://japaneselevelup.com/

It seems to be a more structured/less waffle version of the ajatt method. I enjoy Khazumoto's site, but he tends to go on a little bit too much. this one is basically teh same idea, but with that little bit more focus.

He has his own anki deck of 1950 to download that mixes the essential kanji from RtK books 1 and 3. he also has a couple of articles dedicated to the eradication of unessential kanji in Heisig's books (probably their main flaw). I'm going to do a little more research into it over the next few weeks and consider integrating some of his ideas.

From what I've seen so far though, I'd recommend at least reading some of the articles.

nadir · 24-03-2012 8:26pm

where are you in Japan?

nadir · 24-03-2012 8:33pm

あああ金沢か, ぼくは東京にすんでいます

funky penguin · 24-03-2012 9:31pm

そうですか？でも、あなたのロケイーション(stab in the dark at the katakana)はダブリンですよ！

Or have I slightly misread that, and you are infact going to live in Tokyo?

Konata · 24-03-2012 9:53pm

nadir wrote: »

あああ金沢か, ぼくは東京にすんでいます

来年私は東京に行きます！東洋大学で勉強します!

What part of Tokyo do you live in?

funky penguin · 28-03-2012 7:11am

Tá pian ana mhór ar fad i mo cheann. At least I think that's how it was said......

I was never any good at languages, but these past two nights I went to my local and spoke more Japanese then I ever have before. Best of all, it was generally understood.

But my bloody head feels like it's bursting to capacity with kanji, so I think I'm going to pause at 860 for the moment and bring my reviews down a notch, they're far too high.

Slowly slowly slowly, I'm grabbing vital conversational points that can make dialogue that bit easier. I just can't wait to mix this with what I'm learning with Heisig.

sllloooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwlllllllllllyyyyyyyyyyyy, no rush.

LimerickLad92 · 02-04-2012 10:21pm

I enjoyed catching up on this

What would you reccomend as the ideal way to permanantly get down kana, i always trip up on katakana!

Just Like Heaven · 02-04-2012 10:37pm

Just practise using it. Punch some nouns into Anki in kana and read them out loud and as fluently as you can. You'll expand your vocab and familiarise yourself with the kana. 5 minutes a day for 2 weeks and it'll be second nature.

LimerickLad92 · 02-04-2012 11:10pm

fewtinsoffroth wrote: »

Just practise using it. Punch some nouns into Anki in kana and read them out loud and as fluently as you can. You'll expand your vocab and familiarise yourself with the kana. 5 minutes a day for 2 weeks and it'll be second nature.

anki no kana?

Just Like Heaven · 03-04-2012 5:30am

You mean you can't get into kana into anki?

If so just google how to change your computer to kana, I haven't actually used this site so I dunno if it works

http://www.coscom.co.jp/learnjapanese801/index.html

But your computer can probably type in Japanese.

funky penguin · 03-04-2012 5:45am

When I arrived here first, I power learned all the kana in the first two weeks in school (since there was nothing to do).

THEN, I took a weeks holiday, and when I came back school was starting, and my thesis happened, and I basically forgot the majority of them. When November hit, I started the ajatt method with kanji, so I haven't looked at them since.

Well....sorry that's a bit of a lie. Because I have the luxury of being in Japan, I see the kana everywhere, and as such I always try reading it when I see it. Billboards, signs, menus etc. In a nutshell, it's doing what fewtinsoffroth is saying, repitition, spaced. This again, is just anki's method.

I'd say I know about 80% of them, but I'm not going to study them properly until I finish Heisig. I'm currently reading through the first デスノート manga - just reading, no comprehension. I'm trying to improve my fluency. It's kind of working, and I notice I can read a little bit faster these days. Saying that, a little bit of comprehension comes into play as well, which is just an added bonus (this is mainly due to the fact that I've seen the anime, and know the story).

I have to say I like that idea of the nouns in kana.

Just Like Heaven · 03-04-2012 6:01am

funky penguin wrote: »

I have to say I like that idea of the nouns in kana.

It's the truth

If you can get a hold of the Heisig book for kana, then try that apparently you can learn it in 3 hours of concentration. But, it's not a big deal anyway so I wouldn't even bother paying for the book.

The better you start reading with it and using it the better.

funky penguin · 03-04-2012 7:22am

I have that book, sitting waiting for me (got it waaaaaay back in October).

I just did a review today.....of 180 cards. **** me it was exhausting. 50 tomorrow. I'm beginning to think holding off on learning new kanji was the right idea. At the time I though I was being too easy on myself, but 180 is waaaaaaaaay too much (it had yesterday's included.....I'M ON HOLIDAY! :P ).

I think another week just revising should be enough. Then, I think I'm going to aim for 1,000 and then seriously start sentences for a month with just kanji reviews. I've already started marking sentences in books to come back to, I just need to put them into anki. It's just getting a little frustrating knowing all these kanji and barely being able to string a sentence together.

Just Like Heaven · 03-04-2012 7:47am

funky penguin wrote: »

It's just getting a little frustrating knowing all these kanji and barely being able to string a sentence together.

It'll be worth it, it's just slow progress. Once you can start reading newspapers etc. fluidly it'll just be a matter of picking a few up everyday, it'll be sound! :cool:

just-joe · 03-04-2012 11:01am

Learning kanji and not knowing kana is a bit silly. How can you read anything if you can't read kana?

And, what is your level of understanding when reading the manga? Can you just understand the meaning, or can you read the kanji too?

If you know 1000 kanji that is so so many, you'll be able to read a lot of stuff once you get the readings/compounds going. But that will take a while I guess. Stopping to consolidate sounds like a good idea, and also practicing grammar/speaking/listening/writing too, especially speaking, as well as kanji, might be good.

Just Like Heaven · 03-04-2012 11:02am

just-joe wrote: »

Learning kanji and not knowing kana is a bit silly. How can you read anything if you can't read kana?

He knows Kana he just didn't use the Heisig book?

funky penguin · 03-04-2012 11:39am

Yeah, as I said above I'm confident with 80% of the kana. The others just take that extra bit of time to recall the pronunciation, or I get mixed up (マ and ム for example).

Also, as said above, my comprehension is less than 10% in the manga, but that's not the reason behind doing that. I'm reading it (with furigana) purely to increase fluency in kana reading. I do this alone, and out loud. My neighbours must think I'm a little odd.

But yes, consolidation is the next step, and mainly a venture into sentence writing. I'm also half thinking of getting a private teacher. It may be a difficult endeavor though, as many teachers here, private or group, are fond of textbooks. I just need guidance in grammar and pronunciation, I like to do most of the work myself. And if they start off with the -masu form of verbs........ >_<

funky penguin · 05-04-2012 5:34pm

僕はファイナルファンタジーＶＩＩしている

Pray for me, I'm just up to the first save point and I'm exhausted.

Just Like Heaven · 06-04-2012 10:31pm

It's a great way of going about it though. Took me about 15 hours to get to the first gym in pokemon black

hibby · 09-04-2012 7:44am

just-joe wrote: »

Learning kanji and not knowing kana is a bit silly. How can you read anything if you can't read kana?

I agree it's a bit silly but I have to confess: I'm not 100% on kana either, despite learning Japanese for many years and knowing quite a few kanji.

What I mean is, I can recognise the kana and read signs written in kana, but if you asked me to write them as you called them out, there would be some that I wouldn't be able to remember right then. Also even now if I see さ I take a second to think "Is that sa or chi?"

But now that I'm living in Japan and surrounded by written Japanese it will all sink in fairly quickly so I'm not that worried about it.

funky penguin · 09-04-2012 8:38am

I'm just going to restate what I'm doing here:

I'm using the ajatt method, found here.

This method suggests learning the kanji from Heisig's RtK first, then on to kana.

By no means am I saying that's how it should be done. It's just one of many ways, and happens to be the route I chose.

To be honest, I'd advise learning the kana in tandem, as they're not that difficult. Some people might disagree but how and ever. Whatever gets you learning at a pace you're comfortable with and are enjoying.

Anyways, back to work today, and it's 880 today, with a whopping 81 to review tomorrow. woops......

funky penguin · 10-04-2012 4:01am

900 kanjiroonies.

just-joe · 10-04-2012 12:40pm

So if you know them 80%, then you prob won't have many problems. But if you want to read then first you need to know kana, then kanji. But reading manga to practice will have you perfect in no time. As you're in Japan, you can also read basically whatever you see. Road signs, menus, don't read just what ya need, but everything on the menu, ya know? And then, whatever gets put on your desk at work, although mostly in kanji, is a good way to practice kana, and reading in general.

Doing lessons definitely can't hurt. Maybe there are some at the local town hall, which may be in Japanese, but if the person teaching has had experience with English-speaking Japanese learners then they'll probably know how to help lots. It might be hard to find, but would be worth looking for.

Or, you can just try and find a speaking partner. This could be anyone who is interested in speaking Japanese (and English) with ya. You can do a fifty percent split. There are lots of people who are interested in meeting foreign people/speaking English, so you should be able to find someone, either through your school, if there is an eikawa class at your local town hall there'll definitely be people who would be up for it, or at the local coffee shop.

funky penguin · 17-04-2012 7:33am

GAH!!!

I need to be doing more. MUCH more.

920.

funky penguin · 19-04-2012 3:53pm

950.

raz789 · 19-04-2012 11:54pm

Getting there

I've been looking over some Kanji Odyssey, and my Nihongo Kantan(For a Leaving Cert book it's really well thought out) book.
I have been putting off the katakana for a while now, Heisig's katakana part(in Remembering the Kana" is quite lacking).
As for Kanji, my progress is secret :P

funky penguin · 24-04-2012 3:04am

No! Let the progress out!

For anyone reading this, this may be the only tip I ever give about using anki:

Don't go 4 days without reviewing.

just-joe · 25-04-2012 12:41pm

950 kanji, in such a short time, is amazing! Ganbatte kudasai!

Just Like Heaven · 25-04-2012 7:58pm

Had my LC oral today

I survived, although nerves got the better of me and I could have said sooooooooo much more.

Konata · 25-04-2012 8:14pm

fewtinsoffroth wrote: »

Had my LC oral today I survived, although nerves got the better of me and I could have said sooooooooo much more.

Don't worry, I'm sure it was okay

Well done on completing it!

I didn't do Japanese for the LC so I'm curious about what kind of stuff you get asked?

Just Like Heaven · 25-04-2012 8:45pm

Nothing too difficult really. It's not like LC French the 15 minutes are divided.

General conversation was fine. My family, why I was doing Japanese (because I was the only person in my school), I told her that this conversation was my first in Japanese and she asked about what books/tapes I was using. My hobbies, and from that what sports I played, what club I played for and did I watch the Chelsea Barcelona match last night.

Special topic was okay too, I got my school so a bit about the facilities, what subjects I was studying, litter around the school, how many students were in the school etc.

I was really lucky with the picture, I got souji, but completely blanked on everything I had learnt off

The pictures are all an aspect of Japanese culture/lifestyle and we're expected to contrast it with Ireland. I had a bunch learnt off about after-school clubs in Japan but it just left me :rolleyes: I said something about the size of the schools and that schools in Japan were mixed whereas here many are single-sex schools and asked what I thought was better etc.

All the pictures and topics are here if you wanna peak; http://www.examinations.ie/index.php?l=en&mc=sc&sc=ox

funky penguin · 26-04-2012 12:29am

Sounds like you did fine to be honest!

Really, everyone does much better in the orals than they think. My French was a disaster, but I did grand.

funky penguin · 26-04-2012 1:22pm

Okay.

........

Okay.

So....it's definitely clear that the honeymoon phase of the language is over. I feel bitter towards it and I'm barely keeping my head afloat with reviews.

The thing is, I realise that it's something I need to go through. These next few weeks or so are definitely going to decide whether I'm going to continue seriously studying Japanese, or just casually do it while I'm in Japan.

On the JET programme, we call it a 'Stage 2' (after the 4 stages of culture shock - stage two is the worse one, where you can't stand anything Japanese).

I'll get out of it soon, I'm sure!

just-joe · 28-04-2012 3:42pm

Apply for the JLPT (maybe level 4 would be good after a year in Japan?) to re-start the motivation, and have something to work towards. You can do it online, quite easy. Costs 5500 yen which isn't cool but it's worth doing. It'll also let you know whether your kanji is on par with grammar and vocab.

You'll also get reinspired straight away when you see some non-Japanese friends whip out some great Japanese, tell ya about new kanji/grammar/something they have learnt, or have a cool conversation yourself resulting in a "woah this is awesome and i can really do it too" moment.

Ganabatte kudasai!

funky penguin · 01-05-2012 2:53am

Oh Lordy lordy Lordy......

My desire, ambition or drive to learn this language has hit an all time low.

I have to somehow revive my interest in it.

Joe, I kinda swore secretly to myself that I'd never take the JLPT, but it might be a good idea. I've generally worked well with deadines and goals.

But Christ this is some slump I'm in. I want to put it down to the glorious weather we're having for Golden Week, and the fact that I'm only in school today and tomorrow.....But I also feel that this is an important time to decide, and I can't seem to get my fingers outta my arse and bloody well review!!!!!!

Ahem.

Advise appreciated. :pac:

funky penguin · 25-05-2012 1:05am

I DID IT!!!

I GOT BACK ON THAT WAGON!!!

Farcear · 25-05-2012 12:10pm

Congratulations: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VM5-xFenaZI

funky penguin · 25-05-2012 2:29pm

The best thing is that I'm remembering more kanji than I thought I would. But the reviews are going to be an uphill battle for the next couple of weeks.

Luckily, since I live in Japan I was still kind of studying, especially with regards to listening and speaking. I did a lot of talking with friends about language learning too, and the general consensus was that everyone has brick wall moments, it's just important to recognise them when they happen.

funky penguin · 03-07-2012 2:31am

I realised I haven't updated this in a while!

I was sooo sure I was never going to overcome the post honeymoon blues, but I think I finally have.
I've reached 1,000 in Heisig (still can't believe it!), but now I've also started sentences. I'm on one hundred of those bad boys and counting. I'm taking it easy to be honest, and not stressing myself out.

そして、金曜日から日会話始まる! プライベート・クラスです！

funky penguin · 12-07-2012 3:49pm

Wee update......

1,125 kanji.

I've worked it out that if I do about 20 a day I should reach the end by around August 30th, which is the plan.

The kanji are becoming a little easier to grasp the more I progress. You always think 'I'm never gonna remember this ridiculous story', but somehow it sinks in. Obviously, some more than others, but the SRS works it's magic on that. I always have to remind myself to relax and just enjoy it.

I also discovered that the 'mature' cards in my kanji deck have a 75% rate of success, and there's an obvious curve from 'new' through 'young' to 'mature' ones. I'm absolutely delighted with that. It's far more than I was expecting, and proves something is getting into my thick skull! :pac:

On top of the kanji, I have 120 sentences from this book. It was recommended to me by a guy here who did the same method, to a highly successful degree (just did his JLPT2). Also a meager 100 in my vocab, and I made some kana ones for the craic. They're easy, fly through them.

I'm not too worried about the other decks though, main goal is to get Heisig finished, then concentrate fully on the sentences. Although, I'm tempted by Heisig 2 and 3.......

Aard · 12-07-2012 7:32pm

Thanks for keeping us updated, Funky. It's not easy staying so dedicated to the SRS, although I imagine it's somewhat easier when you live in Japan! How is your Japanese coming along? Would you be able to hold conversations, or watch the news or anything yet?

funky penguin · 13-07-2012 12:27am

I watch the news regularly enough, but understanding it is a different matter! :P

My Japanese conversational skills are pretty dire. They're becoming much better since I started the sentences and vocab though. It's amazing what a difference just a couple of hundred cards can make.

Makes me realise what an effect 10,000 will have! :eek:

funky penguin · 17-07-2012 6:20am

1,205

It just gets easier and easier to force yourself to sit down and just review. I've gotten into a rhythm, where I review in school when I have free time, then study new material in the evening at Starbucks, then maybe play a video game (in Japanese of course).

When I make a sentence I throw the vocab into my vocab deck, to re-inforce whet I'm learning. If I get a chance, I take a look at grammar points, but I'm not breaking my back over it.

Tristram · 26-07-2012 10:35am

スタバはいいな。。。;)

funky penguin · 28-07-2012 2:53am

大好きですよ！私の家はちょっと静かで, 勉強できない！

1,300 kanji. Slacking off a wee bit, but I don't mid as I'm talking more Japanese lately.

Tristram · 31-07-2012 1:29pm

Keep up the good work funky penguin! I'm focusing on grammar this month - a whole lot of review - and speaking a hell of a lot more than usual. Next month may see a kanji assault.

funky penguin · 06-08-2012 4:35pm

1,440.

Ooooooo, it's becoming.....almost.....gah. I can't describe it. It's just....so routine now I suppose. But it's certainly easier to retain things than it was 4/5 months ago.

It may also have to do with the fact that I'm not overly worried any more about getting things wrong. It happens. That's how we learn. deal with it. Move on. Next time you'll remember what the kanji for the keyword torture is. And if you don't, well anki will bash you over the head till you do.

Saying all that, the Lesson involving the 'thread' radical, 糸 was particularly difficult. I was just not retaining ANY of them....until I changed the primitive he suggested to Spider-Man.

Don't ask me why, it just worked. >_<

funky penguin · 28-08-2012 4:13am

Wow! 久しぶり！

Since I've been on my 夏休み、progress has been slow, but steady on the RtK front. I'm on 1,650 or so.

However, since I've been out and about, I've had the opportunity to listen and speak more. It kind of all culminated in a party I went to where I was the only foreigner, and all I could speak was Japanese as the people there had no interest whatsoever in English. (To be honest I was a little surprised at this. Most Japanese will attempt English once they see you attempt Japanese).

Anyways, I originally had planned to finish RtK by the end of August, but I'm not too worried about that. I've found a rhythm that's getting me through it. I'm a LITTLE impatient at this stage, as I want to get cracking on the sentences. Soon, I suppose.

Right.....here it goes.

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