vokera ehe

anthonyos · 09-07-2012 7:23pm #1

was at a vokera ehe condensing boiler today took of white casing switched it on fan ran but no aps or ignition ..then when i loosened the front casing with the gasket seal the aps clicked sparker started sparking burner lit ...any ideas anyone ...

DGOBS · 09-07-2012 8:29pm

Remove and clean the venturi (until it sparkles) with some very fine sand paper or scotch cloth.

An inner flue pipe that has been corroded/punctured (usually happens at the terminal) may also
exhibit the same problem

anthonyos · 09-07-2012 9:41pm

so does that mean when i open up the casing im allowing combustion air in hence why it lights???im rgi by the way but my fault finding is generally gas valves fans etc basic stuff thanks

shane0007 · 09-07-2012 9:46pm

By opening the casing you have allowed extra air, enough to enable the correct amount of air to pass through the venturi, thus converting to negative pressure to activate the APS.

What DGOBS correctly suggested was either a venturi issue or a flue issue. A dirty venturi could lead to positive pressure being passed through it or a damaged flue affecting the venturi flow through.

DGOBS · 09-07-2012 9:51pm

You taking 'duty' off the fan, allowing an inrush of air which is in turn allowing the aps to operate on the positive side only (venturi gives the negative)

Trust me, clean the venturi.

To be honest, and I am not having a go at you, but this is pretty basic stuff for a service technician, and you should know it. I spend way too much of my time arriving at calls where 'other guys' have had a go first and failed (but usually got their fee!!) and I am left to mop up and fix the boiler!

Go do a few manufacturers courses, spend time fixing the 'harder' breakdowns. learn the systems of ignition, and follow them.

I have no problem helping and giving out hard learned information to guys, but the excuse of 'only fault finding gas valves and boards and stuff' does not sit well with me for a professional who charges money for fixing/servicing boilers, how can you service something that you don't understand basic principles of operation?

Ah Shane, nice to know you were listening....lol

anthonyos · 09-07-2012 10:02pm

DGOBS wrote: »

You taking 'duty' off the fan, allowing an inrush of air which is in turn allowing the aps to operate on the positive side only (venturi gives the negative)

Trust me, clean the venturi.

To be honest, and I am not having a go at you, but this is pretty basic stuff for a service technician, and you should know it. I spend way too much of my time arriving at calls where 'other guys' have had a go first and failed (but usually got their fee!!) and I am left to mop up and fix the boiler!

Go do a few manufacturers courses, spend time fixing the 'harder' breakdowns. learn the systems of ignition, and follow them.

I have no problem helping and giving out hard learned information to guys, but the excuse of 'only fault finding gas valves and boards and stuff' does not sit well with me for a professional who charges money for fixing/servicing boilers, how can you service something that you don't understand basic principles of operation?

Ah Shane, nice to know you were listening....lol

i agree 100% but i have to start somewhere must start doing the course...what iv learnt so far is self thought as and from an online repairs course from uk and reading posts from yourself and other posters ..hopefully i will be getting better as i learn more

shane0007 · 09-07-2012 10:08pm

DGOBS wrote: »

Ah Shane, nice to know you were listening....lol

Would I ever not listen to you....

Hmmmm......

DGOBS · 09-07-2012 10:11pm

Lol. Words like pumps and pressure gauges doing to mind!

shane0007 · 09-07-2012 10:15pm

Meeooowwww.... stop scratching with those claws!

DGOBS · 09-07-2012 10:25pm

Think Fred is slowly turning me into a biatchhhh

JohnnieK · 09-07-2012 10:30pm

Now,now ladies

:D

09-07-2012 10:30pm

I find it sad that knowledge has to be begged, borrowed or stolen to produce gas engineers in this country instead of proper recognised training courses giving interested new entrants real qualifications, qualifcations which would put a bigger gulf between good/compatant RGIs and dangerios bastards.

Last month a Ex- BG RGI left the case loose and removed the seals around the combustion chamber to allow the APS to activate, what he didn't spot was the flue was blocked and his actions allowed carbon monoxide in to the property:mad: banker.

Well done anthonyos for seeking clarification, you are better than some seasoned RGI.

anthonyos · 09-07-2012 10:40pm

i dont think the gid is enough its kind of a do this and you are allowed service and repair without proper training.it should be more of an apprenticeship/work placement..trained in repairs your "licensed" for repairs trained in servicing licenced for services etc

shane0007 · 09-07-2012 10:44pm

The GID is not a fault finding course. It is a Gas INSTALLER Domestic course, dealing with installation requirements.

The Domestic Service Course (DSC) is Service and Fault finding course.

09-07-2012 10:45pm

Recently I had a heated argument with a site sparks who had a intolerance to common sence, I explained his bo bo in not giving the boilers a perminant live, he told me the red light loft heaters he fitted beside the boilers was more than enough, I have now officially given up:(.

anthonyos · 09-07-2012 10:48pm

shane0007 wrote: »

The GID is not a fault finding course. It is a Gas INSTALLER Domestic course, dealing with installation requirements.

The Domestic Service Course (DSC) is Service and Fault finding course.

what is the minimum requirement to legally service i gas boiler in ireland

JohnnieK · 09-07-2012 10:50pm

Whats with this new 10 day course now. Suposidly combines the GIS & the GID into one. How can you combine the GIS & GID into one? The GIS alone is a big, I done it as an apprentice (doesn't seem to be any of them around anymore either) and I remember ****ting myself (not literately) before the tests.

JohnnieK · 09-07-2012 10:51pm

GID and be RGII registered unfortunately.

shane0007 · 09-07-2012 10:52pm

anthonyos wrote: »

what is the minimum requirement to legally service i gas boiler in ireland

You must be trained, certified and COMPETENT to do so. Competent being the key word. In legal terms, you could be the highest qualified person in the country as you could be very good with exams but practically you could be incompetent. You must therefore not work on boilers unsupervised until you are competent to do so.

09-07-2012 10:53pm

None of them should be classed as training courses, they are a platform to show skills you already have.

The minimum UK course to work as a qualified gas service engineer is 1 year, 6 months schoolroom and 6 months site, this is just a basic gas qualification.

JohnnieK · 09-07-2012 10:54pm

shane0007 wrote: »

You must be trained, certified and COMPETENT to do so. Competent being the key word. In legal terms, you could be the highest qualified person in the country as you could be very good with exams but practically you could be incompetent. You must therefore not work on boilers unsupervised until you are competent to do so.

That's true Shane but there is no one here enforcing that.

shane0007 · 09-07-2012 10:55pm

JohnnieK wrote: »

Whats with this new 10 day course now. Suposidly combines the GIS & the GID into one. How can you combine the GIS & GID into one? The GIS alone is a big, I done it as an apprentice (doesn't seem to be any of them around anymore either) and I remember ****ting myself (not literately) before the tests.

Don't even start with that one! They are also trying to squeeze the DSC into it. I think into a 15 dayer.

JohnnieK · 09-07-2012 10:58pm

shane0007 wrote: »

Don't even start with that one! They are also trying to squeeze the DSC into it. I think into a 15 dayer.

15 days and your a trained gas fitter who can instal, service and repair. Total joke. I hope the CER and Wilson are looking at this.

shane0007 · 09-07-2012 10:58pm

JohnnieK wrote: »

That's true Shane but there is no one here enforcing that.

The problem in Ireland is that the regs/laws are re-active rather than pro-active. They will only do something about it when it is too late. If you blow a gas installation up, then you will be in front of the courts and they will most likely throw the book at you. What won't happen is stop incompetent people working on installations until they cause harm, etc.

Perhaps we might see a Building Control Department evolve from this recession, but that could fill a whole other thread...

09-07-2012 10:59pm

shane0007 wrote: »

You must be trained, certified and COMPETENT to do so. Competent being the key word. In legal terms, you could be the highest qualified person in the country as you could be very good with exams but practically you could be incompetent. You must therefore not work on boilers unsupervised until you are competent to do so.

Competent my arse, this industry now has more incompetent card carrying gas installer now than when I started working here 10 years ago and were being laugh at because of it, house holders don't know who to listen to now and it's just not funny anymore.

spireland32 · 09-07-2012 11:16pm

"15 days and your a trained gas fitter who can instal, service and repair. Total joke. I hope the CER and Wilson are looking at this"

They don't want to know... As said here before it's going to take a serious accident for them to open theyre eyes.

Worse thing we did was regulate the industry Gary. Need to following the uk on a lot of how to run a gas regulator

anthonyos · 09-07-2012 11:30pm

so the venturi produces the negative pressure for aps

10-07-2012 12:27am

A Venturi generates a measured force that impacts on a APS.

The things to look for in this area are a clean Venturi, if the Venturi is plastic (as a added safety device) has it melted and why, also I would be looking at the reason for any moisture/condensate if evidence of any is found, lenth of flue, condensate traps, pipework from condensate traps(they can allow POC to enter property).

For the APS I would be looking for any blockages in the APS tubes and reasons, correct wiring, correct positioning of tubes, correct value of air pressure switch, any build up of moisture on wiring which can confuse some PCBs.

A APS is a safety device and should be treated as such, never adjusted the value of a adjustable APS and don't rule out the flue untill you have proved otherwise, if your having problems it's always worth while checking if flue restrictors are fitted or if they are required, all info can be found in the manual.

anthonyos · 10-07-2012 6:40pm

thanks lads for the help cleaned the ventrui today and all was well and working after it . took time to have a look at it blow threw and now have an understanding of it and its purpose i always thought the aps - pressure came from the negitive side of the fan or something but now i know:)

gdavis · 11-07-2012 6:32pm

Fair play anthonyos,every day is a schoolday and all that,I see where dgobs is coming from but also think that everyone starts somewhere and no better way of learning than in at deep end

gdavis · 11-07-2012 6:45pm

While we on subject of schooldays,anyone have much working knowledge of sime format 24e? Had head melted with one today??

JohnnieK · 11-07-2012 6:51pm

gdavis wrote: »

While we on subject of schooldays,anyone have much working knowledge of sime format 24e? Had head melted with one today??

Why? What was wrong.

DGOBS · 11-07-2012 7:07pm

fast and furious this evening here..lol..was just gonna ask the same question johnnie, assume you mean a format 24 EI (or he?)

gdavis · 11-07-2012 7:11pm

Was told that boiler goes into lockout every so often but becoming more frequent now,system has 2 zones in apartment.customer told me they have to power off and back on again to reset which had pcb bells ringing in my head.anyhow went through sequence of boiler,all seemed a1.boiler fired and did as it should on central heating,when I changed to hw on programmer boiler cutting in/out every minute or so,motorised valve not an issue,or pump circulation,I changed thermistor as thought( wrongly) that on the shorter circuit the boiler was being told it was up to temp and shutting down.anyway,long story short,fan ,gas valve,high limit stat all fine,boiler never went to lockout while I was there but did keep cutting in and out on hw.

gdavis · 11-07-2012 7:18pm

Haven't even got to the original lockout issue yet!

JohnnieK · 11-07-2012 7:22pm

Did you check the programmer? Could be a loose contact on the DHW.

DGOBS · 11-07-2012 7:23pm

Of course it is cutting in/out on DHW only, as full potential of the boiler is on the cylinder only.

Does the appliance modulate correctly? Are max min burner pressures correct? Is the boiler max output correctly ranged (potentiometers behind the control knob)

I think you may find the original lockout was the thermistor (plenty of times on that boiler had it) the led is solid orange for thermistor fault, but had it just one flash orange then disappear before causing a lockout, can never say never on the pcb though.

gdavis · 11-07-2012 7:29pm

I could lie and say yes but no I didn't! But I really don't think that's the issue,as it starts first time every time when I put it on to hw if u get me,but I'm liking ur train of thought ,u will be kept lol

gdavis · 11-07-2012 7:34pm

I know it is shorter run dgobs but is cutting in/ out from cold at same interval if u know what I mean but when it cuts out light stays green as if it's running,I had no manual for it on my memory stick,will have to go googling later and check burner pressures etc. just thought someone may be able to point me in general direction from previous experience

anthonyos · 11-07-2012 7:37pm

did you check the venturi:pac:

JohnnieK · 11-07-2012 7:42pm

I know it's a long shot but are any of the potentiometers loose on the pcb. I had one last year and the on/off selector on the pcb was loose causing the boiler to periodically go on and off when running.

DGOBS · 11-07-2012 7:43pm

Whats the water like? Dirty? Could be a heat exchanger?

But more likely the max/min burner pressures are not correct and the boiler isn't modulating, on DHW there is too much heat going into the heat exchanger, measure the temperature at the thermistor point while it occurs, bet it's up to temperature, on CH you may not have the issue. Outside chance if the water is dirty the heat exchanger is on its way out!

gdavis · 11-07-2012 7:46pm

Water didn't seem too bad at all to the eye but would have thought pressure on gauge at boiler would rise more than usual if heat exchanger blocked and also rads heat up in minutes on ch

gdavis · 11-07-2012 7:52pm

Can answer u that one... Em...tomorrow johnny !! Although the on / off knob was loose and kept falling off now that u mention it and wasn't catching the inner knob properly without bit of fidgeting to secure it in right spot

DGOBS · 11-07-2012 8:03pm

Have had flow issues in those heated changers before without 'usual' indicators

But nothings for sure without check gas pressures, correct modulation and flow temperatures first.

gdavis · 11-07-2012 8:09pm

True dgobs,cheers for replies from all u nerds lol,I shall get stuck into said boiler with manual and analyser in morn and get to bottom of it

JohnnieK · 14-07-2012 6:59pm

gdavis wrote: »

True dgobs,cheers for replies from all u nerds lol,I shall get stuck into said boiler with manual and analyser in morn and get to bottom of it

How did you get on with that Sime?

gdavis · 14-07-2012 7:23pm

they gone away so wont get to it til next week

vokera ehe

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