Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back from 1 to 10+ pages to re-sync the thread and this will then show the latest posts. Thanks, Mike.
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

Is it Taboo to be Childless?

  • 27-04-2012 9:17am
    #1
    Ayla
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭Ayla


    Just came upon this article & thought it interesting:

    http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/roiphe/2012/04/childlessness_remains_a_taboo_.html
    ...do many of us secretly feel sorry for or condescend to or fail to understand women who don’t have children? Do we assume they are bravely harboring some deep disappointment, do we think they can’t possibly be happy with things as they are, that there is some brittleness, some emptiness at the center?...
    And what about men? Do we look at men who have somehow not procreated as missing out? Probably not, or at least not on the same level. Thinking of men I know who have decided not to have children, there is often a belief that they are immature, Peter Pan-ish, and somehow clinging unnaturally to a freer state, an unseemly perpetual adolescence. The criticism of them is not that they are failures, as is the implicit judgment of women, or somehow unfulfilled or empty, but that they are not growing up....

    I think on this as hear people asking couples "so, any kids yet?" or when when it's assumed that within 2 years of marriage kids will soon follow. Also, when a woman wants to get her tubes tied (or a man get a vasectomy), how many times does she have to fight against the assumption that everyone else has that she may not want kids now, but "just wait - you'll change your mind and you'll regret your decision." Like having kids is the natural and obvious choice, and not wanting kids is wrong.

    I wonder if it will ever become socially acceptable to be childless by choice (or at least not automatically assumed that everyone would want kids)?


Comments

  • #2
    ash23
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,791 ✭✭✭ash23


    I'm slightly envious of childless couples in the same way that I am slightly envious of older couples who have grown up children. Just the freedom of it all. I don't assume that every childless couple I know wanted children.
    I do know some couples who did and yes, I'm sad for them but only because I know it to be true.

    I also know many childless men who are single and again the only ones I feel sorry for are the ones who I know would love to get married and have kids.

    I try not to make assumptions but I guess people do assume everyone wants to procreate as the majority of people do.


  • #3
    Daffodil.d
    Registered Users Posts: 353 ✭✭Daffodil.d


    ash23 wrote: »
    I'm slightly envious of childless couples in the same way that I am slightly envious of older couples who have grown up children. Just the freedom of it all. I don't assume that every childless couple I know wanted children.
    I do know some couples who did and yes, I'm sad for them but only because I know it to be true.

    I also know many childless men who are single and again the only ones I feel sorry for are the ones who I know would love to get married and have kids.

    I try not to make assumptions but I guess people do assume everyone wants to procreate as the majority of people do.
    I am slightly envious of childless couples too. However before I had my 2 kids I had trouble conceiving and felt sorry for anyone who didn't have kids and even went as far as not believing female friends who insisted they simply didn't have the mammy gene. I believe them now.
    Now I look at the romance and freedom that childless couples have even older ones seem to have a deeper bond, maybe because they just have each other. Maybe that's not always the way either. I try not to judge. society has a rule book. You must get married at 30ish, you must have your 1st baby soon after and then a 2nd one and if you have 2 kids the same sex people insist you try for the boy/girl. When you don't follow what people expect of you they just can't get their heads around it. It's annoying really.


  • #4
    Daisy M
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,559 ✭✭✭Daisy M


    I have never been envious of childless couples nor do I feel pity for people who by choice do not have any children. If you choose not to have children and are happy with that decision then you probably enjoy a really nice lifestyle with extra free time and more cash. However if you want children and cant have them I doubt for many people that anything can make up for it.

    There is also the fact that a lot of people do change their mind and want children as they get older, it would be a terrible situation to be in if your partner wasnt in agreement or you had left it to late.


  • #5
    Tom Cruise
    Closed Accounts Posts: 124 ✭✭Tom Cruise


    Kids are hard work.But worth it.


  • #6
    Rosy Posy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭Rosy Posy


    tbh what surprises me more is that the majority of people do have children. Especially people who don't seem to like them very much. Its such a lot of work and effort that I don't know how you could do it if you didn't already love babies and kids.


  • Advertisement
  • #7
    gabsdot40
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 366 ✭✭gabsdot40


    Speaking as a person who was not able to have children and went on to adopt I always just assume that everyone wants to have children. It was such a desperate desire for us and we were so unhappy without children. It's hard for me to understand people who don't want children.
    Life is so much better now with kids.


  • #8
    ash23
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,791 ✭✭✭ash23


    Rosy Posy wrote: »
    tbh what surprises me more is that the majority of people do have children. Especially people who don't seem to like them very much. Its such a lot of work and effort that I don't know how you could do it if you didn't already love babies and kids.


    I'm not crazy about other peoples kids or babies in general. I like them and all but I wouldn't say that I love kids.
    However I absolutely and utterly adore my own child.
    To look at me with other peoples kids it couldn't be said I was a child friendly person. But my own child is my world.


  • #9
    CathyMoran
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,458 ✭✭✭CathyMoran


    I can understand people not wanting children just like I have always wanted children. Having said that I thought that I had given up my chance of having children over 5 years ago when I needed urgent chemo and am incredibly greatful for my son (2 and daughter 10 months).


  • #10
    Tim Robbins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,009 ✭✭✭Tim Robbins


    Taboo - ????

    No way. Some people don't want kids and that's fair enough.

    When I was young free and single, I thought people who were in relationships were boring. People who lived with their partners even more boring, people who were married more boring again and those with kids - mega boring.

    Now that I am in the most boring category, I have no problem admitting this and I stan by it. It was a decision I wanted for me and am happy with. Each to his own.


  • #11
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    No taboo here. I have friends who are happy to stay childless, that is their right and I respect it. I can see why they feel that way, they can see why I wanted a family but know its not for them. And thats fine. I would hate to think of someone who knows they are not cut out for it being pressured into having a baby.


  • Advertisement
  • #12
    cynder
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,128 ✭✭✭cynder


    I have 2 sister in laws who will never have kids, they are both in their 40s. One is married to a fella who has children her age and the other is in a long term relationship but will never have kids, she has been with the guy for 12 years and they dont even live together she has her place, he has his, she enjoys the single life of no responsibility.

    I always wonder what its like for old people say 60+ who never had kids, if they find it lonesome.


  • #13
    Neyite
    Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,947 Mod ✭✭✭✭Neyite


    I dont know if it is actually taboo, but certainly myself and other couples I know have been openly judged with regard to our reproductive choices. Its a given that couples should want kids apparently and it seems to be ok for every auld biddy that knows you remotely to lecture you on what you should do with your uterus.

    I found it insulting and aggravating because I was actually trying for pregnancy and all the "well, you'd better get a move on" or "you are not getting any younger" comments from virtual strangers really pissed me off. Similarly, another couple, married a few years now are getting plagued by that kind of crap. It's their business if, how or when they decide to have a family, or not at all. They are simply very content with their lives and have no plans to have children at this point in time. Yet they are looked at like they are somehow weirdos for not wanting children. :confused:Then there are others who have to sit through judgemental crap having suffered loss after loss.

    When we initally encountered difficulties, I knew that it was possible we would never be parents. I knew that certain circumstances would probably rule out adoption for us. But I also knew that my partner and I are a family already, and if we never had children we would still be a little family of two.

    I dont judge people or tell them how to live their lives, unless they ask me - I expect the same in return. And after my experience, I have no patience with people who thrust their opinion of what you should or should not do with your reproductive organs on anyone.

    I have friends who are utterly content in their choice to never parent, and I fully respect and support them, some have reasons for that choice, some dont have reasons, they just are perfectly happy the way they are. Just like I fully respect and support the friends who are trying desperatly to start their family.

    I know as soon as I have this one, I'll hear the old "when are you going to give him/her a sibling, it'd be selfish not to.." etc. Well, they will get short shrift with me.


  • #14
    notsobusy
    Registered Users Posts: 774 ✭✭✭notsobusy


    I don't think it's a taboo subject. Everyone is entitled to their choices regardless of what other's think. I hate the way some people talk about couples who have been married a few years....and they say I heard they're having trouble conceiving....and when asked if they actually know this or not, the reply is, oh well I just assumed as they haven't had any yet that they must be having trouble.

    I find a lot of this comes from the older generation. When I got together with my OH people told me that I was stupid because he was much older and didn't want children. I found this very hurt as actually I knew he would be happy to have children with me....now we are expecting our first :D

    My mum is mad for me to get pregnant as soon as I have this one. She doesn't seem to understand that I want to get settled with the first baby and my OH!!! :P


  • #15
    whatdoicare
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭whatdoicare


    Gah - I hate the attitude some people have sometimes.

    When my friend got married a few years ago, I knew she and her husband never wanted kids and TBH, I didn't care, it never occurred to me that it was any of my business. She brought it up with me, I never asked.

    She openly told me that from the day she got married she was plagued with people pretty much demanding she started trying for a baby - a friend of hers even handed her her baby and announced "oh, look at your husbands face - how could you do that to him, he wants to be a daddy!"

    This was a girl in her early 30's - I'd nearly understand an elderly person doing it - disgusting behaviour.:mad:

    My friend warned me when I got engaged that it would happen to me too - and I didn't believe her that it was as bad as she said. I just assumed the other girl who tried to guilt her was a once off lunatic!

    Now, We actually do want kids - but we can't afford to at the moment. So we made the decision to hold off until (or if) we were a bit more stable financially.

    I have to say FROM THE VERY DAY we came back from our honeymoon we have been plagued by random people, grandparents and neighbours about when are we starting. It's gotten ridiculous.

    1) People have announced to others that we are pregnant and sent over gifts.

    2) A friend of ours not only demanded we start trying and were foolish to hold off - she demanded that we were selfish to plan on having only the one child!

    3) Our neighbour actually gave out to us - I mean like we were bold kiddies - that we need to get a move on and that we were selfish - SELFISH - for leaving it so late! (I'm 30 - very old :rolleyes:)

    4) My mother drags me into mother care every chance she gets.

    5) My mother in law has a wardrobe full of stuff ready for our babys arrival and shows it to us every time we visit.

    6) Another friend actually sits sadly rubbing her big pregnant belly and says how sad it is that her baby won't have a friend to play with...then she sighs.

    7) I can't say I'm feeling sick or tired without someone in my family producing a pregnancy test and telling me to just check, just in case!

    It's unbelievable how insensitive people are when it comes to people and their demands on others reproductive cycles! It's insane pressure to be putting on anyone - for all my friends and family know I could be trying and having losses or problems. They don't know what we are or aren't going through.:confused:

    I wish they'd just leave me alone.:mad:


  • #16
    notsobusy
    Registered Users Posts: 774 ✭✭✭notsobusy


    OMG whatdoicare that's mental stuff. God people are unreal :eek:

    I remember when I started seeing my OH my mum rang him and arranged to meet him for a coffee without my knowledge. She actually said to to to stay away from me if he didn't want children and not to be wasting my time. I was 24 at the time.....


  • #17
    pwurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    People need a good talking too when they start that craic. I have seen one of my friends crying her eyes out, miscarriage after miscarriage and the stupid insensitive plonkers who don't know what she is going through continue to make those kinds of comments.

    We knew when we got married that the chances of us ever having a baby were extremely slim. So I was well prepared for people. As soon as it started I was ready to quietly take them aside and say it may never happen for us. I think I shamed a lot of people into shutting up. I would have cracked up if I was hearing that stuff for the five years between us getting married and getting pregnant.

    There is plenty to life besides children. Even if you have a child I think it is important to realise that, and keep interested in other things.


  • #18
    whatdoicare
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭whatdoicare


    notsobusy wrote: »
    OMG whatdoicare that's mental stuff. God people are unreal :eek:

    I remember when I started seeing my OH my mum rang him and arranged to meet him for a coffee without my knowledge. She actually said to to to stay away from me if he didn't want children and not to be wasting my time. I was 24 at the time.....

    Yr mam is loopers notsobusy! That's crazy carry on!


  • #19
    zenno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,377 ✭✭✭zenno


    There's a very old thinking-state in Ireland that everyone has to have kids or you are a weirdo if you don't.

    I'm a guy and i'm 43 and I decided when I was 19 that I don't want kids as I like my total freedom. I also always wore protection to make sure. It is interesting to hear from people that constantly say to me, why won't you settle down and have a few kids but in my view I see this as a hindrance as it's not my thing. It's great imo to be free from screaming children all the time and I have 100% time for myself every day. The only thing that might affect a man/woman would be later in life when they are getting too old to have children and might look back in regret of not having them but this is the price you pay for total freedom.


  • #20
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    I am a married woman in my 30s and myself and my husband do not want children.

    There are a variety of reasons, we like our freedom, both of us have a lot of interests that would be impacted by having to take responsibility for another person, I personally find the baby/toddler stage quite gross, I dont like the saliva covered hands, the snotty noses, the sicking up of partially digested milk, dirty nappies, and when they get a bit older I dont like the random screaming with excitement, the what seems like constant crying and whining for something.

    I see my friends who are parents looking harrassed, tired, constantly moaning that they dont get enough sleep, constantly wishing for a night away from the kids, constantly patronising you with 'you wouldnt understand' or saying that you are SO LUCKY you get to sleep in when you want at the weekend.

    I dont like what becoming a parent does to some people, they become baby bores. They become patronising and condescending, they moan, they think its ok to have baby sick on them, and while that in itself isnt an issue, they think there is something wrong with you if the baby sick grosses you out!!

    I also hate seeing how wild a lot of parents let the kids run and just dont care. A good friend has 2 children that are the best contraceptive that Ive ever witnessed. They scream, they run wild, they behave like they are feral, they are not disciplined, they throw chairs around the room, they tear everything around them to pieces, they whine, they break everything they can. And their parents never ever say anything to them, and worse, actually behave like its a good thing!

    I like being who I am and dont want to change that. I never had the mammy gene and when people bring babies into work to be admired I just stand there feeling stupid because Im not interested and they expect me to be. I also hate when people hand me their baby. I dont like them, I try to hold them away so their saliva hands cant touch me, it makes me uncomfortable.

    I get a lot of hassle from idiots who think I must want children because I have a uterus. I dont.


  • #21
    Mr.Wemmick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,103 ✭✭✭Mr.Wemmick


    You can't win with the ignorant and the thoughtless. They never seem to get it.. as if they have a right to know your personal business on any level.

    Funny how, if you give birth to a child with a mental disability or a developmental delay - be it Autism, Down Syndrome or anything on the spectrum disorder - the people who repeatedly dig into your private affairs, with intrusive comments and questions, are the very ones who sit in judgement of you as a failed parent with a badly behaved child. A friend with an Autistic child has these experiences all the time.

    They are never there to offer help, support and understanding but always there to pry, offer advice and judge you.

    So it doesn't matter if you have children or not, it's constantly there.

    Some folks will never change.


  • Advertisement
  • #22
    mrsWhippy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 673 ✭✭✭mrsWhippy


    Has anyone come up with a good response to these prying questions from busybodies?

    Even when you *do* get pregnant, they are still not happy, and feel they have the right to tell you what to eat, drink, how to exercise ... such 'helpful' advise ... god it drives me insane :(


  • #23
    notsobusy
    Registered Users Posts: 774 ✭✭✭notsobusy


    I found the worst was the speculation before we told anyone. All the winking and nodding and then because I had broken my ankle about 8 weeks in, there were people saying "Oh wouldn't it be a great time to get pregnant and have a baby seen as you've nothing else to do".......

    Didn't come up with anyone smart responses, just alot of nodding and trying to smile and say nothing.


  • #24
    notsobusy
    Registered Users Posts: 774 ✭✭✭notsobusy


    whatdoicare wrote: »
    Yr mam is loopers notsobusy! That's crazy carry on!

    Oh tell me about it....wait till I tell you the other stuff she's done :eek::D


  • #25
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    dont want them wrote: »
    I am a married woman in my 30s and myself and my husband do not want children.

    There are a variety of reasons, we like our freedom, both of us have a lot of interests that would be impacted by having to take responsibility for another person, I personally find the baby/toddler stage quite gross, I dont like the saliva covered hands, the snotty noses, the sicking up of partially digested milk, dirty nappies, and when they get a bit older I dont like the random screaming with excitement, the what seems like constant crying and whining for something.

    I see my friends who are parents looking harrassed, tired, constantly moaning that they dont get enough sleep, constantly wishing for a night away from the kids, constantly patronising you with 'you wouldnt understand' or saying that you are SO LUCKY you get to sleep in when you want at the weekend.

    I dont like what becoming a parent does to some people, they become baby bores. They become patronising and condescending, they moan, they think its ok to have baby sick on them, and while that in itself isnt an issue, they think there is something wrong with you if the baby sick grosses you out!!

    I also hate seeing how wild a lot of parents let the kids run and just dont care. A good friend has 2 children that are the best contraceptive that Ive ever witnessed. They scream, they run wild, they behave like they are feral, they are not disciplined, they throw chairs around the room, they tear everything around them to pieces, they whine, they break everything they can. And their parents never ever say anything to them, and worse, actually behave like its a good thing!

    I like being who I am and dont want to change that. I never had the mammy gene and when people bring babies into work to be admired I just stand there feeling stupid because Im not interested and they expect me to be. I also hate when people hand me their baby. I dont like them, I try to hold them away so their saliva hands cant touch me, it makes me uncomfortable.

    I get a lot of hassle from idiots who think I must want children because I have a uterus. I dont.

    You're turning me off kids and I have two :eek::D

    Yeah they are tough going at times, I have a exam student this year stressed up to the eyeballs and a toddler in his screaming stage and I feel like I am slowly going mad sometimes. Its tough but its rewarding beyond words.

    I think when you have kids its sometimes hard to understand how another couple could resist that so much maybe? But its not for everyone and we need to get out of the mindset that everyone is a parent in waiting.

    I do sometimes wonder though when the people who are planning on being childless get to old age do they ever have regrets?


  • #26
    I am a friend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,479 ✭✭✭I am a friend


    dont want them wrote: »
    they become baby bores

    I agree (and I have a kid) but think these people were always bores - wedding bores, work bores, hobby bores. My OH and I have a rule for when people ask us about the baby - they get a one statement response as its too easy to bore the head off people unwittingly... :) We realise that the baby is really only of interest to us and the grandparents...

    The baby bores are bad and are generally women but SMABs (smug married and baby) are worse and these are the ones who patronise the un-childed.


  • #27
    Ayla
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭Ayla


    Now that I have 2 kids, people still aren't happy - now I *should* be having 3 (esp since the two I have are both girls - like I need a boy to "even it out"?). :rolleyes:

    "Ah, sure, don'cha want one more?" As if they can't understand how happy we are to be done with baby stage and get on with our lives. And the comments that we'll change our minds - people are never happy!

    Without going into all the details with every stranger on the street (as if they ever need to know the most personal details of our intimate life) - I feel like wearing a tee-shirt saying that the snip's been done, that bridge has been crossed, no more kids! :D


  • #28
    Daisy M
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,559 ✭✭✭Daisy M


    dont want them wrote: »
    I am a married woman in my 30s and myself and my husband do not want children.

    There are a variety of reasons, we like our freedom, both of us have a lot of interests that would be impacted by having to take responsibility for another person, I personally find the baby/toddler stage quite gross, I dont like the saliva covered hands, the snotty noses, the sicking up of partially digested milk, dirty nappies, and when they get a bit older I dont like the random screaming with excitement, the what seems like constant crying and whining for something.

    I see my friends who are parents looking harrassed, tired, constantly moaning that they dont get enough sleep, constantly wishing for a night away from the kids, constantly patronising you with 'you wouldnt understand' or saying that you are SO LUCKY you get to sleep in when you want at the weekend.

    I dont like what becoming a parent does to some people, they become baby bores. They become patronising and condescending, they moan, they think its ok to have baby sick on them, and while that in itself isnt an issue, they think there is something wrong with you if the baby sick grosses you out!!

    I also hate seeing how wild a lot of parents let the kids run and just dont care. A good friend has 2 children that are the best contraceptive that Ive ever witnessed. They scream, they run wild, they behave like they are feral, they are not disciplined, they throw chairs around the room, they tear everything around them to pieces, they whine, they break everything they can. And their parents never ever say anything to them, and worse, actually behave like its a good thing!

    I like being who I am and dont want to change that. I never had the mammy gene and when people bring babies into work to be admired I just stand there feeling stupid because Im not interested and they expect me to be. I also hate when people hand me their baby. I dont like them, I try to hold them away so their saliva hands cant touch me, it makes me uncomfortable.

    I get a lot of hassle from idiots who think I must want children because I have a uterus. I dont.

    You come across as bad as people who think everyone should have kids. Your post is way too blinkered. Just as I need to be aware that there are lots of reasons people choose not to have children you need to be aware that there are many reasons people choose to have them. There is a lot more to any child than crying/getting sick/having dirty nappies and to imply that there isnt is so insulting and small minded. I would never ever choose to condem people who make the decision not to have children its their choice and doesnt impact on me at all, you are way to critical on people who do choose to have children and I think this is a defense mechanism on your part. You should be strong enough to stand by your decision without undermining other people and their children the fact that you arent comes across as extremely insecure.
    I have to say I hear a lot of anecdotes about the type of parent you mention who are always moaning about the demands parenting entails, BUT I can honestly say hand on heart that out of all the parents I know and it has to be hundreds I can only think of a few who go on like that and for them I have no sympathy.


  • #29
    Twinkleboots
    Registered Users Posts: 127 ✭✭Twinkleboots


    dont want them wrote: »
    I am a married woman in my 30s and myself and my husband do not want children.

    There are a variety of reasons, we like our freedom, both of us have a lot of interests that would be impacted by having to take responsibility for another person, I personally find the baby/toddler stage quite gross, I dont like the saliva covered hands, the snotty noses, the sicking up of partially digested milk, dirty nappies, and when they get a bit older I dont like the random screaming with excitement, the what seems like constant crying and whining for something.

    I like being who I am and dont want to change that. I never had the mammy gene and when people bring babies into work to be admired I just stand there feeling stupid because Im not interested and they expect me to be. I also hate when people hand me their baby. I dont like them, I try to hold them away so their saliva hands cant touch me, it makes me uncomfortable.

    You do realise that you yourself were a baby and child once and that you got sick an pooped and had " saliva hands" and I'm glad for you that your parents didn't have the same attitude you have!!

    I have no issues with people who don't want kids that's their decision and I completely respect that. But please don't insult people who have children. Before you hold a baby away from you next time in case in makes you uncomfortable maybe think to yourself that you too were a little harmless baby once.


  • #30
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    I deliberately posted anon to this thread as I knew some people would not like or respect my views, I posted before in the Parenting forum under my own username and was attacked by a poster simply because my views differed to hers and as a non parent was subjected to the 'you wouldnt have a clue because you are not a parent' patronising rubbish.
    Daisy M wrote: »
    There is a lot more to any child than crying/getting sick/having dirty nappies and to imply that there isnt is so insulting and small minded.

    I didnt imply that there wasnt more to parenting. Of course there must be. However, for me, these are the things that stand out that I dont like. To suggest that I dont know this is another example of patronising someone who isnt a parent over their views on parenting. I dont have any desire to experience all the cuddly happy moments - I am happy. I do not need a child to 'fulfill' me. I am a happy adult female who is secure in the knowledge that she does not want or need children.
    Daisy M wrote: »
    ....you are way to critical on people who do choose to have children and I think this is a defense mechanism on your part.

    I am not criticising them. If they wish to behave the way they do that is their business, but for ME I do not wish to become someone who is always tired, moans about never getting a lie in etc....
    Im not remotely insecure about not wanting children. I dont like children. I dont like what parenting does to (some) people. End of. But the thread is about reasons not to want children - so I gave reasons. Just because you dont like the reasons doesnt mean that I am insecure.
    Daisy M wrote: »
    BUT I can honestly say hand on heart that out of all the parents I know and it has to be hundreds I can only think of a few who go on like that and for them I have no sympathy.

    Pretty much every parent I know on a basis better than waving hello in the carpark moans about it.


  • Advertisement
  • #31
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Twinkleboots wrote: »
    You do realise that you yourself were a baby and child once and that you got sick an pooped and had " saliva hands" and I'm glad for you that your parents didn't have the same attitude you have!!

    I have no issues with people who don't want kids that's their decision and I completely respect that. But please don't insult people who have children. Before you hold a baby away from you next time in case in makes you uncomfortable maybe think to yourself that you too were a little harmless baby once.

    Are you actually serious with this point?

    Tugging the emotional heartstrings about the poor little baby is not a constructive way to conduct a discussion. I was quite honest in that human bodily fluids make me queasy. Thats not insulting 'the little harmless baby' or people who have children. Its simply stating a fact about my own reaction to human bodily fluids.

    It is precisely because of people like you that I end up holding babies away from me - you seem to think we should all just accept things we find disgusting, but guess what? I CHOOSE not to have children BECAUSE these things gross me out. If I wanted to hold your child Id tell you. But people hand them to you without asking and you are stuck there. It absolutely does my head in.

    I once had to pull over and throw up after I left a friends who forced her son to kiss me goodbye, I did not want to offend her by backing off and refusing the child to do it, but his nose and lips were covered in snot and saliva. To me, it was so disgusting that it caused me to throw up. Im sorry if you dont like hearing this, but the truth is, not everyone loves little babies covered in bodily fluids.


  • #32
    Daisy M
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,559 ✭✭✭Daisy M


    dont want kids wrote: »
    I deliberately posted anon to this thread as I knew some people would not like or respect my views, I posted before in the Parenting forum under my own username and was attacked by a poster simply because my views differed to hers and as a non parent was subjected to the 'you wouldnt have a clue because you are not a parent' patronising rubbish.



    I didnt imply that there wasnt more to parenting. Of course there must be. However, for me, these are the things that stand out that I dont like. To suggest that I dont know this is another example of patronising someone who isnt a parent over their views on parenting. I dont have any desire to experience all the cuddly happy moments - I am happy. I do not need a child to 'fulfill' me. I am a happy adult female who is secure in the knowledge that she does not want or need children.



    I am not criticising them. If they wish to behave the way they do that is their business, but for ME I do not wish to become someone who is always tired, moans about never getting a lie in etc....
    Im not remotely insecure about not wanting children. I dont like children. I dont like what parenting does to (some) people. End of. But the thread is about reasons not to want children - so I gave reasons. Just because you dont like the reasons doesnt mean that I am insecure.



    Pretty much every parent I know on a basis better than waving hello in the carpark moans about it.


    The thing is though you are the only person on this thread who has tried to ram your view point down other peoples necks. Other people were happy enough to say yes I want kids or no I didnt without the dramatic reasoning. I never said you were insecure, I never said I didnt like your reasons. And actually the thread is not about reasons not to want children its called "is it taboo to be childless?" which is totally different.

    You have made a very definite decision on not having children, you should be comfortable with that choice and be able to say "no I dont want children" without feeling the need to criticise every baby and parent you know. Its very hard to believe every parent you know moans about been a parent. I believe that your only honing in on your friends negative comments on parenting to strenghten your resolve, and you (probably without realising) dont hear the positive comments they make. You have made your decision and there is no doubt it is the right one for you as you feelings are so strong, it would be unfair on any child to have a mother as opposed to children as you are. Accept that you have made your decision and stop justifying it.


  • #33
    Twinkleboots
    Registered Users Posts: 127 ✭✭Twinkleboots


    dont want them wrote: »
    Twinkleboots wrote: »
    You do realise that you yourself were a baby and child once and that you got sick an pooped and had " saliva hands" and I'm glad for you that your parents didn't have the same attitude you have!!

    I have no issues with people who don't want kids that's their decision and I completely respect that. But please don't insult people who have children. Before you hold a baby away from you next time in case in makes you uncomfortable maybe think to yourself that you too were a little harmless baby once.

    Are you actually serious with this point?

    Tugging the emotional heartstrings about the poor little baby is not a constructive way to conduct a discussion. I was quite honest in that human bodily fluids make me queasy. Thats not insulting 'the little harmless baby' or people who have children. Its simply stating a fact about my own reaction to human bodily fluids.

    It is precisely because of people like you that I end up holding babies away from me - you seem to think we should all just accept things we find disgusting, but guess what? I CHOOSE not to have children BECAUSE these things gross me out. If I wanted to hold your child Id tell you. But people hand them to you without asking and you are stuck there. It absolutely does my head in.

    I once had to pull over and throw up after I left a friends who forced her son to kiss me goodbye, I did not want to offend her by backing off and refusing the child to do it, but his nose and lips were covered in snot and saliva. To me, it was so disgusting that it caused me to throw up. Im sorry if you dont like hearing this, but the truth is, not everyone loves little babies covered in bodily fluids.

    Sorry about that I was just saying that you too were a baby once an I'm sure your had you're fair share of runny noses over the years yourself. All I'm saying really is that these are normal things and babies can't really help it. And by the way I would never force someone to hold my child if they did not wish to. You find children and babies disgusting that's fair enough that's your opinion and your entitled to it.


  • #34
    Jaziel Quick Stock-still
    Posts: 0 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Jaziel Quick Stock-still


    mrsWhippy wrote: »
    Has anyone come up with a good response to these prying questions from busybodies?

    Even when you *do* get pregnant, they are still not happy, and feel they have the right to tell you what to eat, drink, how to exercise ... such 'helpful' advise ... god it drives me insane :(

    I think
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=59057353&postcount=55
    should work just fine :D


  • #35
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Twinkleboots wrote: »
    Sorry about that I was just saying that you too were a baby once an I'm sure your had you're fair share of runny noses over the years yourself. All I'm saying really is that these are normal things and babies can't really help it. And by the way I would never force someone to hold my child if they did not wish to. You find children and babies disgusting that's fair enough that's your opinion and your entitled to it.

    Its interesting how the point keeps getting missed!

    I had to nurse a parent through illness for a few years before death, there were bodily fluids (and solids), snotty noses etc.. I still found it gross, and I was dealing with an adult. In fact, some of the things with an adult are much worse. But it was my parent, I got on with it.

    It is not children and babies I find disgusting, other peoples bodily fluids gross me out. I could never be a nurse or a doctor.

    The point about children is, I can choose not to have them, and not to have to deal with the things I find gross. Not that I think children and babies are disgusting, but I personally do not like dealing with other peoples bodily excretions. Thats all, its not meant as offensive to children (or parents), its actually about me, not about other peoples children.

    I just get the impression that you are not allowed be honest about feeling this way about children without parents jumping down your throat and becoming offended - as you did, making out that Im nasty about the poor little babies. Its nothing to do with the poor little babies, its about my own squeamishness.


  • #36
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Daisy M wrote: »
    The thing is though you are the only person on this thread who has tried to ram your view point down other peoples necks. Other people were happy enough to say yes I want kids or no I didnt without the dramatic reasoning. I never said you were insecure, I never said I didnt like your reasons. And actually the thread is not about reasons not to want children its called "is it taboo to be childless?" which is totally different.

    I dont understand what you mean by ram my viewpoint down other peoples necks? All I have done is post an opinion, same as yourself.

    Why do you think my reasoning is dramatic? Just because you dont like my opinion doesnt give it extra drama.

    You did say I was insecure:
    Daisy M wrote: »
    You should be strong enough to stand by your decision without undermining other people and their children the fact that you arent comes across as extremely insecure.

    Other people wrote long posts that went beyond the actual thread title also - am I somehow not allowed this because you dont like my opinion?
    Daisy M wrote: »
    You have made a very definite decision on not having children, you should be comfortable with that choice and be able to say "no I dont want children" without feeling the need to criticise every baby and parent you know.

    Im totally comfortable with it. Its you who seems uncomfortable with it. I didnt criticise anyone, I explained my viewpoint. Can you show me where I criticised anyone? Do you know what criticise means? I didnt condemn anyone their behaviour, although I did make observations of what I would not like to become. Theres a difference.
    Daisy M wrote: »
    Its very hard to believe every parent you know moans about been a parent. I believe that your only honing in on your friends negative comments on parenting to strenghten your resolve, and you (probably without realising) dont hear the positive comments they make.

    They do make positive comments. Of course they do. But the comments they make do not, for me, make up for the negatives. I dont know why you have difficulty believing that.

    I dont need my resolve strengthened, since childhood Ive felt awkward around babies, no interest, not knowing how to act, people expecting me to be all goo goo and gaa gaa, and me just standing there hoping I wont be handed the baby.

    If you have a uterus, you are expected to want to look at, admire, hold, ask about a baby. How many times have you been in a workplace where someone has brought in their new baby to be admired? How many times does that woman go to the men in the office to show the baby? She doesnt, she only goes to the women. I was the only woman in an all male office for years, so babies used to get brought in specially for me to look at. People dont get that some women just have no interest. Youre not getting it on this thread despite it being explicitly spelled out. Instead you want to assign negative traits to me like insecurity, and a need for self justification.
    Daisy M wrote: »
    You have made your decision and there is no doubt it is the right one for you as you feelings are so strong, it would be unfair on any child to have a mother as opposed to children as you are. Accept that you have made your decision and stop justifying it.

    I do accept it. It seems that you want to believe that I dont though. Im not sure why that is except the usual attitude of disbelief I encounter from people when you tell them you dont want children?


  • Advertisement
  • #37
    Mink
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,260 ✭✭✭Mink


    For years the OH & I were certain we didn't want kids. When we would mention it to people they always said that we'd regret it when we were much older. To be honest this didn't affect me, I didn't pay any attention as life can be very full without kids. Anyway I don't know what changed but some years after that we decided to go for it (after 1-2yrs wait to make sure it wasn't a whim).

    I'm having an easy pregnancy etc, but I may only have this one. I can't really see myself going again. I'm sure I'll get all the "when are you having another" comments. I'm trying to really enjoy the pregnancy & then lap up every moment with the baby just in case it is the only baby I have!

    I know many couples & singletons that aren't having or never had kids. It never occurred to me to say anything about it or ask about it. I don't get how people can be so insensitive & nosey and actually make comments about things like that.


  • #38
    Sappa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 885 ✭✭✭Sappa


    I have an uncle,for whatever reasons himself and his wife never had kids.
    They treat there neices and nephews like there own,very generous with time and birthdays etc.
    There life has been one of travel to exotic places before they were popular,the latest gadgets etc.They are i there 70`s live in a beautiful place and I have always admired this lifestyle
    Whether we have kids both in agreement on this is were leaving it to faith,if it happens then it happens but if not I could care less as I reckon your either cut out for it or your not.
    People ask us sometimes not often and I reply no I have not interest,they might mutter under there breath but nothing has been said directly to us in a negative way for our choice.
    I think you can lead a full happy life with or without kids but it is not the end of the world if you never have one.


  • #39
    BoomSha
    Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭BoomSha


    As a teen who currently doesn't want children, I get a lot of shocked responses when I tell people I'm not interested in kids. I don't hate children, but I feel they're fine in small doses. Children require a lot of effort and time, and I wouldn't want to give that right now. I feel that the right to choice is a key thing, however. People should be allowed to choose whether they want kids or not without hate.


  • #40
    Hannibal Smith
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,893 ✭✭✭Hannibal Smith


    Why on earth would it be taboo? It's no one else's business what you do.

    As for the 'any kids yet', its a natural question to ask, if you don't know a couple. If you can't have kids and are sensitive about it, its just something you'll have to get used to. It's just like asking a school kid, what class they're in and whether they like their teacher. It's a conversation starter if you don't know a couple.

    I remember a couple I met...a friend of an old boss....they were married 20 years...I asked if they had any kids. Well you'd swear I asked have they murdered anyone. The husband answered no, but they had 2 gorgeous dogs and so the conversation moved on. I later found out later they were having problems conceiving (2 years later they had twins through ivf though). But I thought, how the hell was I supposed to know.

    To ask why, is crossing a line though. I know 2 couples, no kids and I've never asked why. Either they don't want them, or can't have them, but that's their business.


  • #41
    Hannibal Smith
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,893 ✭✭✭Hannibal Smith


    Ayla wrote: »
    Now that I have 2 kids, people still aren't happy - now I *should* be having 3 (esp since the two I have are both girls - like I need a boy to "even it out"?)

    Now this does annoy me. I have 2 boys, the youngest only 6 months, and I'm already getting the 'you should go again for the girl', as if I should be disappointed with 2 boys?


  • Advertisement
  • #42
    mrsWhippy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 673 ✭✭✭mrsWhippy


    In the right context, I don't think there is necessarily a problem with the question 'Do you have children?' - its a factual question along the same lines as 'where do you live' and 'Are you married'. I'm completely fine with that esp when you are getting to know a new couple. If the answer is 'no' the you leave it at that!

    What I can't stand is the patronising, nosy sh1t like 'oh when will we hear the pitter patter...' and 'Anythin stirrin down there' .. though that type of rubbish is usually spouted by our nearest and dearest, rather than strangers which makes it worse!


  • #43
    SerialComplaint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,644 ✭✭✭SerialComplaint


    dont want them wrote: »
    I once had to pull over and throw up after I left a friends who forced her son to kiss me goodbye, I did not want to offend her by backing off and refusing the child to do it, but his nose and lips were covered in snot and saliva. To me, it was so disgusting that it caused me to throw up. Im sorry if you dont like hearing this, but the truth is, not everyone loves little babies covered in bodily fluids.
    Just seems like a bit of a first world problem to me. Having been round our own kids, relatives and friends, I've never had a situation that forced unwanted bodily fluids onto me. Couldn't you just have kissed the top of his hair, or the side of his head or whatever?


  • #44
    Hannibal Smith
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,893 ✭✭✭Hannibal Smith


    dont want them wrote: »
    It is not children and babies I find disgusting

    You see this ^^^...
    dont want them wrote: »
    Not that I think children and babies are disgusting,....Thats all, its not meant as offensive to children (or parents)

    this ^^^
    dont want them wrote: »
    I just get the impression that you are not allowed be honest about feeling this way about children without parents jumping down your throat and becoming offended - as you did, making out that Im nasty about the poor little babies. Its nothing to do with the poor little babies, its about my own squeamishness.

    and this ^^^ Are very difficult to take seriously when you've already posted this
    dont want them wrote: »
    I personally find the baby/toddler stage quite gross, I dont like the saliva covered hands, the snotty noses, the sicking up of partially digested milk, dirty nappies, and when they get a bit older I dont like the random screaming with excitement, the what seems like constant crying and whining for something.

    I also hate when people hand me their baby. I dont like them, I try to hold them away so their saliva hands cant touch me, it makes me uncomfortable.

    You don't like children, fair enough, but perhaps you might think about thundering into a thread in a parenting forum with a tactless impassioned speech about how gross you find them. I don't want children, because I don't like them is not such a strange concept for anyone to grasp. No one enjoys the puke or the poop, there's nothing unnatural about that. I'm not surprised you get the reactions you say you get if you express your opinions like this. I don't think I'd go into a cat forum and vehemently explain why I don't like cats and expect to get away with it :D

    For what its worth, I work with two men and one woman and have brought both my kids into show them off. No one in the office has kids except for me, nor do they like them.. But I've had to sit and admire photos of their dogs, cats, new cars, shoes, handbags, shirts, suits etc, so they can show me the same courtesy and at least feign interest in what I have to show off. It's called common courtesy. And no one would be offended if you didn't want to hold a baby, the first baby I held was my son! In fact I'm sure they'd much rather you didn't if you were going to vomit all over them :D


  • #45
    ChubbyRunner
    Registered Users Posts: 59 ✭✭ChubbyRunner


    I was married for 8 years before we had our first child. It was a decision we made because we were stone broke, working our way in our careers etc. Everyone knew that, everyone knew I really wanted kids but still asked. When we started trying for our second and had fertility problems which we were open about people still asked. I used to feel bad like it was my fault!! I don't think it ever goes away. IVF broke up my marriage and I nearly died while in labor but people STILL ask when I am going to try for a girl. Its so annoying. :mad:


  • #46
    Ben Moore
    Registered Users Posts: 136 ✭✭Ben Moore


    At 18 my cousin became pregnant and in the child's first few years of life I spent quite a lot of time being the Uncle/Cousin, minding, changing nappies, etc.
    I thought that some day I would like to have children of my own.
    I few years later I was in a relationship that looked like it was headed that way until we realised that her issues and my issues were not compatible and it ended amicably.
    By that stage my sister and more cousins and friends were having children and so my minding skills were once again called upon.
    Now I am a 40 something who doesn't have children and was never married.
    I am partly disappointed that I do not have them but at the same time I feel that if I had ignored the issues of my relationship then we may have brought up children in an non-condusive atmosphere.

    I'll have to settle for being the cool Uncle.


  • #47
    iguana
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,916 ✭✭✭✭iguana


    Ben Moore wrote: »
    I am partly disappointed that I do not have them but at the same time I feel that if I had ignored the issues of my relationship then we may have brought up children in an non-condusive atmosphere.

    I'll have to settle for being the cool Uncle.

    Lots of men have their first child at your age or older. That door isn't one that is necessarily closed to you if you don't want it to be.


  • #48
    Ben Moore
    Registered Users Posts: 136 ✭✭Ben Moore


    Yes, you are right, I shouldn't be so defeatist, so I will adjust my comment...

    For the moment, I will enjoy being the cool Uncle :-)


Advertisement