Musgrave Cork Chill Strike

Show Time · 23-04-2012 4:49pm

Fifty more lads bought in today.

bassboot · 23-04-2012 5:07pm

Show Time wrote: »

Fifty more lads bought in today.

Word has it that close to 200 office staff/ new people have been trained to step in. Not much point striking if they can simply replace people in an instant. Strange and disturbing situation.

gral6 · 23-04-2012 6:23pm

When it comes to money there is nothing strange.They didn't have to strike.These times gone long ago.

bassboot · 23-04-2012 7:17pm

gral6 wrote: »

When it comes to money there is nothing strange.They didn't have to strike.These times gone long ago.

Seems that the law is heavily loaded in favour of employers. Which isn't necessarily a good thing, irrespective of this particular situation. Old protocols are long gone indeed.

40plus · 23-04-2012 8:47pm

their on 46k a year..6wks hols..half pension paid..swap system and now they are looking foe more..I will have their job if they dont want it..Im on a temp contract which is up shortly..not a hope of getting a car loan..let alone the chance to buy my own house..my heart bleads...not!!!!!!!

gral6 · 23-04-2012 9:05pm

Unfortunally they don't realize how lucky they are..

Ludo · 24-04-2012 7:41am

I can't remember ever seeing so many new posters join just to contribute to a thread on the Cork City forum...must be a very topical issue for there to be such interest.

rebelchick2 · 24-04-2012 7:43am

bassboot wrote: »

gral6 wrote: »

There are a lot of people who's doing the same job in chill warehouses for min wage.
They dont moan or strike.
These on strike will understand how real world looks like pretty soon

A strike does nobody any favours, and I don't think the vast majority of workers wanted this. But companies are trying to worsen people's terms and conditions by using the recession as an excuse. Do you let them chip away at your position or do you try and make a stand? It will probably backfire, but perhaps it's better to make some effort rather than simply give them everything without a whimper.

I don't see how Musgraves are trying to worsen people's terms and conditions by giving them a 5% pay rise or letting them reduce their weekend hours by equivalent amount plus standard 1.5% pay rise just to introduce technology which will make their work easier.! These workers have got it too good and don't realize it.....

bassboot · 24-04-2012 8:14am

rebelchick2 wrote: »

bassboot wrote: »

gral6 wrote: »

There are a lot of people who's doing the same job in chill warehouses for min wage.
They dont moan or strike.
These on strike will understand how real world looks like pretty soon

A strike does nobody any favours, and I don't think the vast majority of workers wanted this. But companies are trying to worsen people's terms and conditions by using the recession as an excuse. Do you let them chip away at your position or do you try and make a stand? It will probably backfire, but perhaps it's better to make some effort rather than simply give them everything without a whimper.

I don't see how Musgraves are trying to worsen people's terms and conditions by giving them a 5% pay rise or letting them reduce their weekend hours by equivalent amount plus standard 1.5% pay rise just to introduce technology which will make their work easier.! These workers have got it too good and don't realize it.....

How do you know this technology makes a job easier? This technology results in job losses. I would call losing a job a definite worsening of your terms and conditions. Ask the people in the ambient warehouse who got let go after assurances that this technology wouldn't result in job losses. Ask workers who have used it already how it makes it harder to make your bonus because unrealistic times were set for orders, resulting in an effective pay drop for the same productivity levels.

Blitzkrieger · 24-04-2012 8:20am

Sounds like their high pay is down to their working conditions and high productivity to me. Or in simpler terms : well earned. Now their employer wants to give them a pay rise that is less than inflation as a reward for working harder? And the vast majority of people here think the workers on strike are the chancers?

I think we've been brainwashed in this country. At the height of the boom when every corporation was bitching about Irish wages being too high, an international survey concluded that Irish workers worked the longest hours for the least pay when compared to the major economies in Europe. That didn't stop every company that could get away with it (most) jumping in and cutting wages once the tabloid rags were full of talk of recession. Plenty of companies (where I work included) are still posting profits and sometimes record profits. I think we need to realise off whose sweat those profits are being built. I think Irish workers need to value themselves more.

rebelchick2 · 24-04-2012 9:33am

Well office staff with a days training and a few days experienced seem to be doing just fine, and from my contacts in some shops, orders seem to be more on time and more accurate than before, I wonder how "well earned" these workers salary is??????

mcko · 24-04-2012 9:45am

Where do you work Musgrave HR:)

rebelchick2 · 24-04-2012 10:09am

mcko wrote: »

Where do you work Musgrave HR:)

Ha ha touchy! No I don't work for Musgrave full stop, where do you Work(using this term very loosely), musgrave chill warehouse????

regress · 24-04-2012 11:18am

So Musgrave office workers are now not only passing the pickets but are doing the jobs of their striking colleagues and making sure the orders get out. So much for worker solidarity.

54kroc · 24-04-2012 11:37am

regress wrote: »

So Musgrave office workers are now not only passing the pickets but are doing the jobs of their striking colleagues and making sure the orders get out. So much for worker solidarity.

Who cares about worker solidarity when the people striking are greedy and lazy.

24-04-2012 11:52am

rebelchick2 wrote: »

I don't see how Musgraves are trying to worsen people's terms and conditions by giving them a 5% pay rise or letting them reduce their weekend hours by equivalent amount plus standard 1.5% pay rise just to introduce technology which will make their work easier.! These workers have got it too good and don't realize it.....

Make their work easier?
Time that used to be spent on a quick walk to collect the next order will be removed from their shift completely and they'll constantly be picking orders.

Now if there was a decent time per employee spent walking to collect orders all this time will add up. Unless there are increased orders coming in the existing work won't need the same number of employees.

That's between Musgraves and the staff of course but I don't see how it will make their work easier, picking orders is more demanding than walking to collect the next paper order

I don't work there and never have by the way.

the beer revolu · 24-04-2012 11:59am

In most industrial disputes, I find it very hard to get clear facts on pay or conditions, what with management and workers giving various spin and avoiding the facts that don't suit their argument. This case is no different.
I hear €18 per hour being bandied about but I also hear €46 000 a year.
Now these figures do not match - €18 per hour add up to €36 504 per year for a 39 hour week - so which is it?
There was also mention of 6 weeks holiday - is this true? That's 1.5 times the mandatory holidays.

So, I'd like to know what the proposed actual basic yearly salary is.
What the actual hours are and the break times (if paid).
What the holiday entitlements are.
What bonuses there are for weekend work, productivity etc.
What the weekend obligation is.

Without these facts is is all just empty rhetoric, really.

Also, regarding the crossing of picket lines - if you genuinely don't agree with a dispute, why should you support it?

I believe in the right to strike.
I also believe in the right to work.

MrThrifty · 24-04-2012 12:18pm

I had to laugh when I saw the picket outside Musgraves at the weekend... What frustrated me was the lack of a way for passing motorists to show their disapproval or lack of support. I wanted to beep my horn in frustration at them but they would probably have interpreted this as a vouch of support! So I had to resort to a mere dirty glare!!

So, to Strike or whoever the union involved is, wake up to reality and cop yourselves on. Unions serve a purpose but in my opinion if they carry on in this manner their days will be rightfully numbered. I don't believe it's about workers any more but more the unions trying to flex the last of their muscles and justify themselves in a lot of cases.

regress · 24-04-2012 12:54pm

the beer revolu wrote: »

Also, regarding the crossing of picket lines - if you genuinely don't agree with a dispute, why should you support it?

I believe in the right to strike.
I also believe in the right to work.

What the Musgrave office workers are doing goes way beyond that. By doing the chill workers job and ensuring that orders go out they are quite deliberately shafting their colleagues. This is not something they are contractually required to do. Irrespective of merits of strke this is a very nasty thing for them to do to fellow employees.

54kroc · 24-04-2012 1:13pm

Why do they need a break between picking orders?
Don't they get a lunch break?

kcb · 24-04-2012 1:35pm

unreal. that sounds like the public service.

mcko · 24-04-2012 2:17pm

I work in the Pharma industry and I earn a lot more than the guys in musgraves

I can't believe that anyone would cross an official picket, we are only strong when we stick together.
Men and women died in this country for workers rights and to have scabs crossing pickets it's a sad sad day for Ireland.

24-04-2012 2:55pm

54kroc wrote: »

Why do they need a break between picking orders?

It's not a break, it's a walk to the office to collect the next order. It's still work. It would be similar to a walk to a meeting or the photocopier for desk jockies, it's still work.

bassboot · 24-04-2012 2:56pm

the beer revolu wrote: »

In most industrial disputes, I find it very hard to get clear facts on pay or conditions, what with management and workers giving various spin and avoiding the facts that don't suit their argument. This case is no different.
I hear €18 per hour being bandied about but I also hear €46 000 a year.
Now these figures do not match - €18 per hour add up to €36 504 per year for a 39 hour week - so which is it?
There was also mention of 6 weeks holiday - is this true? That's 1.5 times the mandatory holidays.

So, I'd like to know what the proposed actual basic yearly salary is.
What the actual hours are and the break times (if paid).
What the holiday entitlements are.
What bonuses there are for weekend work, productivity etc.
What the weekend obligation is.

Without these facts is is all just empty rhetoric, really.

Also, regarding the crossing of picket lines - if you genuinely don't agree with a dispute, why should you support it?

I believe in the right to strike.
I also believe in the right to work.

There is different contracts in place for workers, hence the different numbers being mentioned.

okedoke · 24-04-2012 3:39pm

Blitzkrieger wrote: »

... an international survey concluded that Irish workers worked the longest hours for the least pay when compared to the major economies in Europe. ...

do you have a link to that survey? I don't doubt the longest hours but I do doubt the least pay.

okedoke · 24-04-2012 3:43pm

RoverJames wrote: »

It's not a break, it's a walk to the office to collect the next order. It's still work. It would be similar to a walk to a meeting or the photocopier for desk jockies, it's still work.

Its a bit like saying for an office worker that if the photocopier is moved closer to his desk he wants a pay rise because he won't have as much time walking between the photocopier and his desk anymore. I'm a union member myself but this is crazy.

24-04-2012 3:47pm

okedoke wrote: »

Its a bit like saying for an office worker that if the photocopier is moved closer to his desk he wants a pay rise because he won't have as much time walking between the photocopier and his desk anymore. I'm a union member myself but this is crazy.

I was just making the point that it's not a break, it's still work

I'm not privy to enough details to decide is the strike justified or not, much like most other folks posting here. Although some like to think they know all the ins and outs of the situation.

bassboot · 24-04-2012 4:31pm

54kroc wrote: »

Why do they need a break between picking orders?
Don't they get a lunch break?

That isn't the issue. It's the reduced time you get to complete orders that is. The times have been cut in half in some cases. So in effect you could be working up to 50% harder to make your daily/weekly targets. In a physical job requiring up to 12 hours of lifting this is a huge leap from the current levels of productivity.

54kroc · 24-04-2012 6:40pm

RoverJames wrote: »

It's not a break, it's a walk to the office to collect the next order. It's still work. It would be similar to a walk to a meeting or the photocopier for desk jockies, it's still work.

I'm not saying it isn't work, I was under the impression they didn't want to use radios as they wouldn't get a break like when they're walking back to pick up a new order.

bassboot wrote: »

That isn't the issue. It's the reduced time you get to complete orders that is. The times have been cut in half in some cases. So in effect you could be working up to 50% harder to make your daily/weekly targets. In a physical job requiring up to 12 hours of lifting this is a huge leap from the current levels of productivity.

Would you happen to know the exact times they're allowed? I'm pretty sure Musgraves didn't just pluck them out of the air.
If your able to work 50% harder to meet your new targets what were you doing with that time before the new targets?

rebelchick2 · 24-04-2012 7:00pm

mcko wrote: »

I work in the Pharma industry and I earn a lot more than the guys in musgraves
I can't believe that anyone would cross an official picket, we are only strong when we stick together.
Men and women died in this country for workers rights and to have scabs crossing pickets it's a sad sad day for Ireland.

Do you think all workers should support a strike no matter what the issue? I would only cross a picket if i didnt support the people striking.
I presume the other workers in Musgraves know a lot more than any of us about the situation so i think it is very wrong to call them "scabs". I would have a lot less respect for people that just towed the line.

gral6 · 24-04-2012 7:15pm

what were you doing with that time before the new targets?

Fu.. all and nothing.To be honest they just rode agency's backs.

bassboot · 24-04-2012 7:15pm

bassboot wrote: »

That isn't the issue. It's the reduced time you get to complete orders that is. The times have been cut in half in some cases. So in effect you could be working up to 50% harder to make your daily/weekly targets. In a physical job requiring up to 12 hours of lifting this is a huge leap from the current levels of productivity.

Would you happen to know the exact times they're allowed? I'm pretty sure Musgraves didn't just pluck them out of the air.
If your able to work 50% harder to meet your new targets what were you doing with that time before the new targets?[/Quote]

You were doing your job.

54kroc · 24-04-2012 7:28pm

bassboot wrote: »

Would you happen to know the exact times they're allowed? I'm pretty sure Musgraves didn't just pluck them out of the air.
If your able to work 50% harder to meet your new targets what were you doing with that time before the new targets?

You were doing your job.[/QUOTE]

Not to the best of your ability.

bassboot · 24-04-2012 7:47pm

54kroc wrote: »

bassboot wrote: »

Would you happen to know the exact times they're allowed? I'm pretty sure Musgraves didn't just pluck them out of the air.
If your able to work 50% harder to meet your new targets what were you doing with that time before the new targets?

You were doing your job.

Not to the best of your ability.[/Quote]

Define ability.

24-04-2012 7:55pm

mcko wrote: »

I work in the Pharma industry and I earn a lot more than the guys in musgraves
I can't believe that anyone would cross an official picket, we are only strong when we stick together.
Men and women died in this country for workers rights and to have scabs crossing pickets it's a sad sad day for Ireland.

All well and good to be saying that, many folks may not be able to afford to support the strike.

mama79 · 24-04-2012 7:58pm

A buddy of mine works in the office in Musgraves Tramore Road and going on what he's told me they didn't really have a choice in going to work in the warehouse. Office staff aren't unionised only the warehouse is so its not really a case of people shafting their colleagues. If someone in the offices has a grievance re pay or conditions, there's no union rep to support them so essentially they're on their own when they raise a grievance with management.

regress · 24-04-2012 8:16pm

mama79 wrote: »

A buddy of mine works in the office in Musgraves Tramore Road and going on what he's told me they didn't really have a choice in going to work in the warehouse. .

They wouldn't be the first to use the excuse that they were only following orders. In my opinion what the office workers have done to their colleagues in Chill is despicable.

mcko · 24-04-2012 9:01pm

Scabs are scabs no matter how you look at it.

Fishrman · 24-04-2012 9:43pm

Hey...dont know the details of the chill strike as i dont work there but confusion seems to be working against the strikers big time!

There are numerous posts all about voice computers but then union lady representing the workers on 96fm (poorly by the way) with prederville said the strike had nothing to do with the voice system!

She also said that the overwhelming majority of workers (800?) were having nothing to do with the strike. You can be sure that has more to do with those people looking after their jobs in this day and age than any grudge against colleagues who are in dispute. Or are those 800 people not entitled to have an opinion?

Empty shelves not in the best interest of staff on either side of the gate....unless you work for the germans or tesco of course!:)

EyeSight · 24-04-2012 10:24pm

mcko wrote: »

Scabs are scabs no matter how you look at it.

wow.....
so just because a large group of people have one opinion, everyone else has to follow them regardless of their own opinions? this is a society where everyone can make up their own mind. from companies i have been at(in a different industry to musgraves) most of the employees would do as much as they could to keep the company growing and profitable, because it benefits them too.
we don't know the full details but to me it seems that some workers who have been there for years and used to a certain way of doing things don't want it to change. but all companies evolve in order to increase efficiency and profits(which in some way benefits the staff). you have to evolve with the times, especially in business. would you rather the company lost money and had to let people go?

Daith · 25-04-2012 12:15am

EyeSight wrote: »

wow.....

we don't know the full details but to me it seems that some workers who have been there for years and used to a certain way of doing things don't want it to change. but all companies evolve in order to increase efficiency and profits(which in some way benefits the staff). you have to evolve with the times, especially in business. would you rather the company lost money and had to let people go?

This is what it seems to be too. Tbh the voice picking system wouldn't be for me. It's boring. You are told when to go, what to to pick with little let up. However the accuracy of the picks are more efficient because you can't really pick the wrong goods.

That's if the strike is about voice picking. If its about wages, well I dont think the majority of salaried workers there got a single pay raise for years. I dont see why they would have sympathy for the pickers.

mcko · 25-04-2012 12:50am

Daith wrote: »

EyeSight wrote: »

wow.....

we don't know the full details but to me it seems that some workers who have been there for years and used to a certain way of doing things don't want it to change. but all companies evolve in order to increase efficiency and profits(which in some way benefits the staff). you have to evolve with the times, especially in business. would you rather the company lost money and had to let people go?

This is what it seems to be too. Tbh the voice picking system wouldn't be for me. It's boring. You are told when to go, what to to pick with little let up. However the accuracy of the picks are more efficient because you can't really pick the wrong goods.

That's if the strike is about voice picking. If its about wages, well I dont think the majority of salaried workers there got a single pay raise for years. I dont see why they would have sympathy for the pickers.

Passing a picket is bad enough but to do the strikers jobs is disgusting.
I wouldn't like to be working there in the future, I can just imagine the atmosphere.

Padraig Mor · 25-04-2012 9:18am

mcko wrote: »

Passing a picket is bad enough but to do the strikers jobs is disgusting.
I wouldn't like to be working there in the future, I can just imagine the atmosphere.

What if they think the strikers are a bunch of overpaid ingrates and completely disagree with the strike? Anyway, judging by the dwindling numbers on the picket line (I pass daily), the strike is losing steam...

Show Time · 25-04-2012 9:38am

Can they just sack the workers still out on strike?

MrThrifty · 25-04-2012 10:41am

Padraig Mor wrote: »

What if they think the strikers are a bunch of overpaid ingrates and completely disagree with the strike? Anyway, judging by the dwindling numbers on the picket line (I pass daily), the strike is losing steam...

Here, here... the bad weather today puts a smile on me!

Rather than strangely venting frustration at the non-striking workers for crossing a silly picket, these posters should instead consider venting it at the union who no doubt created this storm in a teacup.

I have been shocked by some of the stories I have heard in the past involving unions defending the indefensible - like staff being dismissed for stealing when caught red-handed etc. They're becoming an absolute joke in this country, along with a lot of other things I guess...

Oafley Jones · 25-04-2012 1:53pm

MrThrifty wrote: »

Here, here... the bad weather today puts a smile on me!

Rather than strangely venting frustration at the non-striking workers for crossing a silly picket, these posters should instead consider venting it at the union who no doubt created this storm in a teacup.

I have been shocked by some of the stories I have heard in the past involving unions defending the indefensible - like staff being dismissed for stealing when caught red-handed etc. They're becoming an absolute joke in this country, along with a lot of other things I guess...

Weren't they advised not to strike by the union reps and shop stewards.

mcko · 25-04-2012 6:38pm

Oafley Jones wrote: »

MrThrifty wrote: »

Here, here... the bad weather today puts a smile on me!

Rather than strangely venting frustration at the non-striking workers for crossing a silly picket, these posters should instead consider venting it at the union who no doubt created this storm in a teacup.

I have been shocked by some of the stories I have heard in the past involving unions defending the indefensible - like staff being dismissed for stealing when caught red-handed etc. They're becoming an absolute joke in this country, along with a lot of other things I guess...

Weren't they advised not to strike by the union reps and shop stewards.

The Celtic tiger has a lot to answer for in creating a generation of selfish brats who look down on men and women looking after pay and conditions.
No worker wants to strike you don't get paid on strike.
Just because they earn a decent wage does not mean they have to bend over backwards for the company.
I feel sorry for society when people are glad it rains on strikers.
Read your history workers rights had to be bought with blood in this country.
Shame on you

rebelchick2 · 25-04-2012 6:44pm

mcko wrote: »

Oafley Jones wrote: »

MrThrifty wrote: »

Here, here... the bad weather today puts a smile on me!

Rather than strangely venting frustration at the non-striking workers for crossing a silly picket, these posters should instead consider venting it at the union who no doubt created this storm in a teacup.

I have been shocked by some of the stories I have heard in the past involving unions defending the indefensible - like staff being dismissed for stealing when caught red-handed etc. They're becoming an absolute joke in this country, along with a lot of other things I guess...

Weren't they advised not to strike by the union reps and shop stewards.

The Celtic tiger has a lot to answer for in creating a generation of selfish brats who look down on men and women looking after pay and conditions.
No worker wants to strike you don't get paid on strike.
Just because they earn a decent wage does not mean they have to bend over backwards for the company.
I feel sorry for society when people are glad it rains on strikers.
Read your history workers rights had to be bought with blood in this country.
Shame on you

Scabs/Selfish Brats etc, so the 900 other people in Musgraves are all these things and the 90 people outside the Gates are brilliant. I think you are one very deluded person. If anyone is selfish, I think it is the people that are putting all the musgrave employees jobs in jeopardy, the greedy people who have a decent wage and are camped outside in the rain!

deano30 · 25-04-2012 10:05pm

i am workin in cork ambient 4 10 years now.we had the same problem with the company and very nearly went on strike 2.the guys in the chill are being treated like nobodys.there is a lot more 2 this strike than people think.the company hired agency workers and are paying them half of what they are paying the strikers who helped this company through out the years to make it where it is today and the management,all they can say is leave them rot out there,were getting the work done at a far cheaper price.if we as unions and people dont stand up to these bullies god help the next generation of workers.to the strikers,well done lads,stand up 4what you belive in and to the readers,this strike is not about money,voice picking or hours its about a lot of other issues 2 that im not so sure about myself.

rebelchick2 · 25-04-2012 10:19pm

deano30 wrote: »

i am workin in cork ambient 4 10 years now.we had the same problem with the company and very nearly went on strike 2.the guys in the chill are being treated like nobodys.there is a lot more 2 this strike than people think.the company hired agency workers and are paying them half of what they are paying the strikers who helped this company through out the years to make it where it is today and the management,all they can say is leave them rot out there,were getting the work done at a far cheaper price.if we as unions and people dont stand up to these bullies god help the next generation of workers.to the strikers,well done lads,stand up 4what you belive in and to the readers,this strike is not about money,voice picking or hours its about a lot of other issues 2 that im not so sure about myself.

Question- If ambient workers support this strike, how come you aren't outside the gate with the chill workers? Don't know how these strikes work but presume you are passing pickets every day?

Musgrave Cork Chill Strike

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