SF Aengus O'Snodaigh has claimed €50,000 in expenses for Printer Ink

kippy · 28-02-2012 2:59pm

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

http://www.sinnfein.ie/files/2009/SF_TD_Expenses.pdf

That is odd, his total expenses for 2007 are given as €22,973 but the Mail say he claimed €25,969 in toner alone. Both can't be right...

Well this could be another "nuance" of how political expense accounting words.
Perhaps certain things (such as this type of thing, paper, office stationary) aren't actually counted towards claimed expenses as they are not essentially a sum of money that the politician has claimed as reimbursement towards travel/subsistence/paying of staff.
One has to wonder what else isn't covered in these expense documents.

Tipp Man · 28-02-2012 3:00pm

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

http://www.sinnfein.ie/files/2009/SF_TD_Expenses.pdf

That is odd, his total expenses for 2007 are given as €22,973 but the Mail say he claimed €25,969 in toner alone. Both can't be right...

Do these printer cartridges actually come under expenses?? I'd be surprised if they have anything to do with expenses to be honest

Pompey Magnus · 28-02-2012 3:04pm

Tipp Man wrote: »

Do these printer cartridges actually come under expenses?? I'd be surprised if they have anything to do with expenses to be honest

I am assuming it falls under the Special Secretarial Allowance which is an expense allowance I believe:

The Special Secretarial Allowance can be used for the following purposes:
1. the purchase of secretarial equipment (other than equipment already provided
by the Office under other Regulations),
2. the purchase of secretarial services under a contract for services (e.g. a specific
project such as research or web design done by a contractor) and
3. the employment of temporary fixed-term employees carrying out secretarial
services (i.e. a contract of service)

Examples under 1) and 2) above may include;
Advertising Constituency Clinics (advertising Clinic and not Party)
Web Design/Maintenance/Hosting/Registration
Leaflet Printing
Leaflet Distribution
Newsletters
Secretarial Services
Research Work
Speech Writing
Preparation of Press Release
Database Work
Christmas Cards (advertising Clinic and not Party)
Office Equipment - Photocopier/Fax etc (not supplied by the Houses)
Office Furniture (not supplied by the Houses)
Consultancy

28-02-2012 3:05pm

the next post i see squabbling about moderation on thread particularly after that mod gave instruction to take it to feedback, gets infracted and/or banned.
you have a problem with posts, report them

omerin · 28-02-2012 3:07pm

he's to appear on the 6 o clock news tonight with Brian Dobson, mono to mono where he will fess up. The man has ink on his hands

Sully · 28-02-2012 3:16pm

Mary Lou has came out in his defense. Poor Aengus, sure if he was simply told he was spending crazy money on ink he would have stopped.

Ms McDonald said Mr Ó Snodaigh did not realise the cost and would not have run up such a bill had he been advised by the Oireachtas authorities.

Source: http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0228/osnodaigha.html

Honestly like. He claims an unreal amount of expenses as it is, €30k+ in 2011 alone. Himself and the Sinn Fein party seem to think they can justify this and than go ranting when the government have to get a bail out, make cuts, raise taxs etc.

Is it any wonder we are in a bloody recession and needing a bailout when expenses like this are deemed acceptable.

IRE60 · 28-02-2012 3:16pm

If they do it under FDI, interesting to see who he bought them from, as I assume they are some invoices supplied for the goods

ED: sorry I just read that he took physical possession of the goods from the stores (?)

C

amacachi · 28-02-2012 3:31pm

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

You do realise last year he still claimed less than the average amount in expenses claimed by TD's, so chances are if he was replaced it would mean someone who has even higher expenses would replace him.

How many Dublin TDs claimed more than him?

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

Right, but TD's get expenses for a whole range of things, O Snodaigh claimed less than the average TD in the Dail claimed last year, so in this one area he may have benefited greatly but he would have had to have been extremely frugal in virtually every other area to compensate so that he would end in the lower half of TD's expense claims. In these areas his competition would have had the advantage of greater resource spend over him.

He claimed as much as anyone in Dublin did.

If he used that much ink then why is there no mention of the few hundred thousand (I'll be generous) sheets of paper that also would've been used up?

golfball37 · 28-02-2012 3:38pm

An expense from 5 years ago brought to light the same week polls show SF as gaining ground on FF.

I'm not suggesting anything of course but if this expense had been accrued in the current climate then Mr O'Snoddy should be removed from office.

2007/08 was a different time in economic terms however.

Fenian Army · 28-02-2012 3:38pm

He printed his leaflets on regular printers rather than using the big industrial photocopier that everyone else uses. Lazy and stupid.

He didn't break any rules however and doesn't do it anymore.

Tipp Man · 28-02-2012 3:46pm

Fenian Army wrote: »

He printed his leaflets on regular printers rather than using the big industrial photocopier that everyone else uses. Lazy and stupid.

He didn't break any rules however and doesn't do it anymore.

Just how many leaflets did he need to print in 2007 and 2008?

Is there corresponding paper costs to go with these leaflets?

kippy · 28-02-2012 4:12pm

golfball37 wrote: »

An expense from 5 years ago brought to light the same week polls show SF as gaining ground on FF.

I'm not suggesting anything of course but if this expense had been accrued in the current climate then Mr O'Snoddy should be removed from office.

2007/08 was a different time in economic terms however.

I mentioned that earlier, but yes, the timing is very interesting, as are the sources of the initial information that the journalist had.
Also the fact that Micheal Martin is calling for a full investigation smacks of the double standards within FF.
That doesnt make what AOS did right btw.

kippy · 28-02-2012 4:14pm

Fenian Army wrote: »

He printed his leaflets on regular printers rather than using the big industrial photocopier that everyone else uses. Lazy and stupid.

He didn't break any rules however and doesn't do it anymore.

That doesn't make what he did morally and ethically right however. Especially when you consider the climate we are now in (and indeed were in at the time)

It is very difficult now for SF to take the high moral ground against excessive use of funds for expenses, borrowing from the IMF etc when they have a person in their ranks.

RoundyMooney · 28-02-2012 4:15pm

Here's the Morning Ireland audio, for anyone who missed it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwMi2SbHB00

Bannasidhe · 28-02-2012 4:24pm

kippy wrote: »

I mentioned that earlier, but yes, the timing is very interesting, as are the sources of the initial information that the journalist had.
Also the fact that Micheal Martin is calling for a full investigation smacks of the double standards within FF.
That doesnt make what AOS did right btw.

Is it not a case of those who throw stones should make damn sure they aren't in a glasshouse?

Perhaps the timing is 'suspect' - but then the timing of McGuinness' remarks about Gallagher were equally suspect. That's politics - use information to maximum advantage.
If O Snodaigh hadn't been slipping ink cartridge into his pocket every time he was in Leinster House there wouldn't be a story in the same way as if Sean Gallagher hadn't tried to claim he had severed all ties with FF, and he had never been more then a lowly grassroots member in the first place, his fund raising activities on behalf of FF would also have been a non-story.

The simple fact is SF have raged about everything, including the abuse of expenses, allowances and perks - and indeed the whole system is absurd - but SF TDs appear to be just as willing to 'work the system' they so enjoy ranting about. This has the effect of making their public statements so at odds with their actions that they just look like all the rest of our 'working the system' public representatives rather then the genuine alternative they like to present themselves as being.

Dannyboy83 · 28-02-2012 4:24pm

Thanks for the link, altho it's very difficult to listen to, either there is a terrible echo on his line or he is stuttering at a frightening rate.

swimming in a sea · 28-02-2012 4:30pm

I think if he is not a thief then this is a sign of the future if SF ever got into power.

SF have nothing but competent for the middle class, they will waste all our money and squeeze us with taxes until we can't give any more.

omerin · 28-02-2012 4:30pm

I don't like his toner, sure he said things have changed now and he's turning over a new leaf but its taken him 3.2 million to be exact. Just goes to sure the laser faire attitude of our politicians

Fuhrer · 28-02-2012 4:45pm

Christ,

People saying he should have used recycled cartridges etc.

Why not just ****ing email his rubbish propaganda out?

Manco · 28-02-2012 4:48pm

Dunno what more pathetic, O'Snodaigh or Martin's desperate attempt to keep himself relevant: http://breakingnews.ie/ireland/ff-leader-calls-for-inquiry-into-osnodaighs-use-of-printer-ink-541529.html

kippy · 28-02-2012 4:50pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Is it not a case of those who throw stones should make damn sure they aren't in a glasshouse?

Perhaps the timing is 'suspect' - but then the timing of McGuinness' remarks about Gallagher were equally suspect. That's politics - use information to maximum advantage.
If O Snodaigh hadn't been slipping ink cartridge into his pocket every time he was in Leinster House there wouldn't be a story in the same way as if Sean Gallagher hadn't tried to claim he had severed all ties with FF, and he had never been more then a lowly grassroots member in the first place, his fund raising activities on behalf of FF would also have been a non-story.

The simple fact is SF have raged about everything, including the abuse of expenses, allowances and perks - and indeed the whole system is absurd - but SF TDs appear to be just as willing to 'work the system' they so enjoy ranting about. This has the effect of making their public statements so at odds with their actions that they just look like all the rest of our 'working the system' public representatives rather then the genuine alternative they like to present themselves as being.

I dont disagree with anything of that.
Power corrupts etc.......

Sunnyisland · 28-02-2012 4:57pm

Manco wrote: »

Dunno what more pathetic, O'Snodaigh or Martin's desperate attempt to keep himself relevant: http://breakingnews.ie/ireland/ff-leader-calls-for-inquiry-into-osnodaighs-use-of-printer-ink-541529.html

The Fianna Fáil leader Micháel Martin called for an inquiry into the matter.

As said in comment number 3

Until Michael martin comes clean on bertie & the rest of his FF friends, Maybe he should stay quite.

Sully · 28-02-2012 4:58pm

Christ, its only going to get worse now with the announcement of a referendum. His printer will be on overdrive.

JustinDee · 28-02-2012 5:28pm

Have the Shinners never heard of email? Saves an awful lot of paper and erm . . . ink . . .

swimming in a sea · 28-02-2012 5:31pm

mary lou has just come out and said he did not realise the value of ink cartridges, that's her defence, pathetic.

SF out of touch with the common man, they don't know value of ink cartridges:D

JustinDee · 28-02-2012 5:34pm

swimming in a sea wrote: »

mary lou has just come out and said he did not realise the value of ink cartridges, that's her defence, pathetic

She also passed the blame on to "the system".

kippy · 28-02-2012 5:34pm

swimming in a sea wrote: »

mary lou has just come out and said he did not realise the value of ink cartridges, that's her defence, pathetic.

SF out of touch with the common man, they don't know value of ink cartridges:D

Thats indicitive of the problems.
Politicians know the value of very little.

View · 28-02-2012 5:47pm

But, but, but - how does someone "on the average industrial wage" not notice that they are spending more than their wage on printer ink?

tayto lover · 28-02-2012 5:58pm

There is a serious stINK about all this.

swimming in a sea · 28-02-2012 6:06pm

JustinDee wrote: »

She also passed the blame on to "the system".

it's like the poverty trap, he is stuck in the Leinster House trap, with corruption all around him he just could not help himself.

swimming in a sea · 28-02-2012 6:09pm

I think the worst could be yet to come.

His Dry Cleaning bill will be through the roof, those cartridges leak like hell.

penguinbloke · 28-02-2012 6:11pm

The real issue with this is that it was resolved about 2 years ago and it's still the best Michael Martin could come up with.

As far as I know in most situations recycled cartridges are not an option due to warranty issues with printer manufacturers.

It's still a crazy figure, The only way I can figure it working is if they were using a inkjet style printer though to go through that amount of ink, especially with the fact that it was happening on a daily basis. But to use that type of printer on that scale would be absolutely insane.

I still can't help but think it's just a drop in the ocean. They all had their perks, we just need people to get pissed off enough to leak them.

JustinDee · 28-02-2012 6:22pm

tayto lover wrote: »

There is a serious stINK about all this.

It is certainly an even bigger blot on their political image . . .

alastair · 28-02-2012 6:22pm

It's toner at issue, not ink afaik. Full colour laserprinter cartridges.

Given that common sense tells us he didn't use that much toner for his constituency needs, there's really only two questions arise:

1. If he got actual cartridges, or claimed for same.
2. If it's actual cartridges, where did they end up - SF HQ or elsewhere.

jmayo · 28-02-2012 6:31pm

golfball37 wrote: »

An expense from 5 years ago brought to light the same week polls show SF as gaining ground on FF.

I'm not suggesting anything of course but if this expense had been accrued in the current climate then Mr O'Snoddy should be removed from office.

2007/08 was a different time in economic terms however.

So it was ok to spend 4 or 5 times more than anyone else in 2007/2008.
But of course this is SF we are dealing with where it was ok to kidnap and murder people 20/30 years ago. :rolleyes:

Your argument might have some weight if it weren't for the fact he refused to pay back some of the cost in the last couple of years. :rolleyes:

If any printer went through this amount of ink/toner then it would be in rag order and if it is a laser then it has a counter which could verify his claims it was all user by himself.

Also over on politics.ie somebody who worked with him mentioned a leaflet printing machine which would even lead to more questions why he was then printing on lasers/inkjets when he had a leaflet printer.

The Waltzing Consumer · 28-02-2012 6:46pm

So they are pretty much the highest party average for claiming expenses, they have shady developers linked with them who have ruined peoples lives, they are still in denial of some of the most horrific acts on this island, they engage in extremely dirty politics (last minute destruction of Sean Gallagher's Presidential bid) and one of them claims more in two years for ink then a huge portion of their support would earn in total wages over two years.

Who is the new FF?:pac:

NinjaTruncs · 28-02-2012 6:50pm

alastair wrote: »

It's toner at issue, not ink afaik. Full colour laserprinter cartridges.

Given that common sense tells us he didn't use that much toner for his constituency needs, there's really only two questions arise:

1. If he got actual cartridges, or claimed for same.
2. If it's actual cartridges, where did they end up - SF HQ or elsewhere.

It's actual cartridges, he physically took them from the Dail. It's unlikely that they were used for SF HQ as if that was the case all the SF TD's would be taking them so it wouldn't be so noticeable.

The amount of ink he took would have meant that his printer was running every minute the constituency office was open and you would have to wonder how any sane/intelligent/normal person wouldn’t realize that there are more cost effective ways of printing. Who really sits at their office PC and hits print on a 15,000 unit jobs, it would be so infeasible.

But the ink cost would just be the tip of the iceberg, there is also paper and delivery costs which would make the ink costs seem tiny.

I feel the Shinners need to come out and explain this situation or every time Mary-Lou stands up to complain about the government’s spending no one will listen. It really is time for our political parties to lead by example and cut the people milking the system, but I won't hold my breath waiting for that to happen.

Paparazzo · 28-02-2012 6:51pm

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

O'Snodaigh insists that this is all above board and he was merely printing information for use in his local constituency.

The only stuff from O'Snodaigh I ever got through the letterbox was the standard election stuff.
I'd love to hear what he's printing.

The Waltzing Consumer · 28-02-2012 6:53pm

NinjaTruncs wrote: »

I feel the Shinners need to come out and explain this situation or every time Mary-Lou stands up to complain about the government’s spending no one will listen. It really is time for our political parties to lead by example and cut the people milking the system, but I won't hold my breath waiting for that to happen.

He should apologise, pay the money back and move on. I can't stand SF but I ain't going to demand his resignation cause that would involve a bit of class from him and he has none. Pay the money back to us, and we will call it quits.

mike65 · 28-02-2012 6:57pm

I've seen 3.5 million pages of A4 mentioned, a 1000 pages of "80 gm" paper weights 5 KGs so that's 17.5 tonnes of paper. Where was he getting the paper? How did he get it from a to b? Then there is the distribution of same, was it done door to door by SF volunteers?

finty · 28-02-2012 6:58pm

JustinDee wrote: »

She also passed the blame on to "the system".

This I find hilarious!

Pilfering your workplace is fine as long as you arent specifically breaking any rules........

Obviously ethical behaviour is beyond them

finty · 28-02-2012 7:00pm

mike65 wrote: »

I've seen 3.5 million pages of A4 mentioned, a 1000 pages of "80 gm" paper weights 5 KGs so that's 17.5 tonnes of paper. Where was he getting the paper? How did he get it from a to b? Then there is the distribution of same, was it done door to door by SF volunteers?

I wonder does he have receipts for this quantity of paper??

somehow I doubt it, he should resign.......obviously he wont though

efb · 28-02-2012 7:05pm

SF used to have blood on their hands, now its ink...

Pandora2 · 28-02-2012 7:16pm

A. There is a print facility, free of charge within LH.....Election Materials excluded!

B. The paper would have come from the same place the toner cartridges did and would also have been paid for by the taxpayer!

C. There is no limit on photocopying and no Usercodes:eek:

He would have had 2 printers within his office suite one for him, if he did not opt for a laptop, and one for his secretary, he locates them where he likes......when the Parliamentary Asst's came on line he would have been provided with an additional office suite, again the P/A would have had the option of a laptop.

I have worked in Admin and mailmerged like crazy....don't think I've used that many Toner's in the whole of my career, let alone 2 years and I doubt he has either. :rolleyes:

KeithAFC · 28-02-2012 7:21pm

It does not surprise me. This is an absolute disgrace by Sinn Fein. They should be forced to apologise immediately. You can see from this very thread how annoyed people are at this.

Sully · 28-02-2012 7:33pm

Ah now the jokes are in! Loving the trolling guys!

A CHILDREN’S CHARITY has written to the Sinn Féin TD Aengus Ó Snodaigh to ask if he would consider donating his spent printer cartridges to it in order to raise funds.

The Jack and Jill Children’s Foundation, which helps young children suffering from severe neurological development issues, has written to Ó Snodaigh in light of today’s revelation that the TD took over €50,000 worth of printer cartridges in just two years between 2007 and 2008.

Ó Snodaigh has defended his use of Oireachtas resources saying he “would have been known as the most prolific leafleters in the country” in a radio interview this morning.

The children’s charity hopes to benefit from Ó Snodaigh’s extensive use of ink cartridges for printing as it recycles those and other material such as old mobile phones and computer games in order to raise money for nursing care support for children who have neurological issues due to brain damage.

“It is slightly tongue-in-cheek,” the charity’s CEO Jonathan Irwin told TheJournal.ie. “I just thought if he really has done this, he might feel he might be able to give them to our children.

“We’ve recycled them as a consistent earner for about ten years,” he said, adding that he hoped that Ó Snodaigh would at least respond to the request.

Recycling is a big part of Jack & Jill’s fundraising drive, as the charity must raise €2.7 million per annum in order to operate. A fifth of its funding comes from the State.

The Dublin South-Central TD could not be reached for comment on whether or not he would consider the proposal.

http://www.thejournal.ie/charity-wants-o-snodaighs-spent-ink-cartridges-to-raise-funds-368804-Feb2012/?new_comment=1#comment-282668

How much ink and paper will be used in the event Aengus replies? :pac:

Patser · 28-02-2012 7:39pm

finty wrote: »

I wonder does he have receipts for this quantity of paper??

somehow I doubt it, he should resign.......obviously he wont though

I've been wondering about this all day too. They were estimating on the radio today (Newstalk) that that amount of printers would print about 3 million pages. That wouldn't be a cheap amount of paper. So was O'Snodaigh claiming for this as well, which would be expected if he was printing the stuff for himself? I mean if he's claiming the cartridges why not for millions of sheets of paper.

If he's not claiming for the paper, surely there's an implication that the cartredges were being used by someone else, that was supplying the paper. Has there been any receipts shown for the paper needed for all the 'literature' he was printing?

yourpics · 28-02-2012 8:15pm

Ó Snodaigh has done nothing wrong. He was entitled to the ink in accordance with the allowances at the time.

RTE carried a comprehensive report on the issue on tonight's edition of Six One yet they did not mention Ruairí Quinn's FALSE mileage claim last week.

Bannasidhe · 28-02-2012 8:18pm

yourpics wrote: »

Ó Snodaigh has done nothing wrong. He was entitled to the ink in accordance with the allowances at the time.

RTE carried a comprehensive report on the issue on tonight's edition of Six One yet they did not mention Ruairí Quinn's FALSE mileage claim last week.

I would say he did nothing illegal - whether or not it was wrong is an entirely different matter.

What does Quinn's missing miles have to do with this? Two wrongs do not make a right and all that.

The Waltzing Consumer · 28-02-2012 8:20pm

yourpics wrote: »

Ó Snodaigh has done nothing wrong. He was entitled to the ink in accordance with the allowances at the time.

Yep, he has done nothing wrong, just like Bertie, Lawlor, Callely, burke, Cooper-Flynn etc. etc. etc. did nothing wrong.

SF Aengus O'Snodaigh has claimed €50,000 in expenses for Printer Ink

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