National ID card for Ireland?

Stinicker · 26-05-2010 6:28pm #1

Alot of other EU countries have National ID cards issued to their citizens. In Ireland we do not have a National ID card which means currently if we want to travel to any of the 26 other countries in the European Union (bar the UK) or to the members outside the EU but within Schengen such as Norway, Iceland and Switzerland we need a passport.

As Ireland has a common travel with the United Kingdom and a shared land border with Northern Ireland (part of the UK) we do not need to show any documentation when crossing the land border nor are there any checkpoints.

When flying from the Republic of Ireland to the UK Valid ID must be shown at checkin with the Airline and varies by airline; Ryanair insist on Passport for Irish citizens on all flights including domestic, wheras other airlines will accept a Drivers Licence or other valid ID for flights to the UK. Upon arrival from the UK into Ireland valid ID must be shown to the GNIB (Garda National Immigration Bureau who mans Passport Control at our airports), This ID can consist of passport or Drivers licence.

I think in Ireland we need a National ID Card as it would allow us to travel without our passports and we now have the ludicrous situation where if I travel by Ryanair within Ireland I must show my passport at checkin and a Valid ID (Passport or Drivers Licence) to Passport Control at Dublin Airport due to Ryanair lumping domestic passengers into International Arrivals instead of routing them separately as domestic arrivals like Aer Arran does on their Domestics.

If we had a National ID card it would allow to travel to these countries without a passport and on Ryanair also, it would make for more convienent travel and cut costs and bureaucracy. If I was to lose my passport I would have to apply for a new one at considerable cost and also have to cancel and re-apply for the Visas I have in my Irish passport meaning alot of bureacracy and hassle.

As a member of the European Union; Ireland is denying its citizens free travel throughout the Union by not issuing ID cards. Imagine a Citizen of the United States in New York being unable to travel to California without a US Passport?? When in reality that New Yorker only needs his driving licence. Nearly all other EU countries have ID cards except the UK who cancelled their ID card programme due to costs.

El Weirdo · 26-05-2010 6:30pm

In before the Godwin.

Leeg17 · 26-05-2010 6:32pm

In before the crazzzy conspiracists.

artanevilla · 26-05-2010 6:33pm

I have a passport. Surely the same thing.

alwaysadub · 26-05-2010 6:37pm

I thought they were meant to be bringing them out anyway no?

okioffice84 · 26-05-2010 6:38pm

"May I see your papers please?"

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 26-05-2010 6:41pm

If said ID card didn't cost 85€ and is NOT cumpolsory, then yes, I like the idea.

Stinicker · 26-05-2010 6:41pm

artanevilla wrote: »

I have a passport. Surely the same thing.

Yes and No, A passport will allow you to travel to all the EU and Schengen areas yes but a passport is both expensive and very valuable. Look at the trouble people are having trying to get passports issued due to the current industrial relations dispute. A passport allows you to travel worldwide and have visas applied to it, a National ID card would allow for easier EU & Schengen travel and is credit card sized and fits in your wallet. A passport is bigger, more valuable and if you lose when abroad you will need to get an emergency one issued from a consular facility to get home.

Abrasax · 26-05-2010 6:42pm

Didn't they just announce the scrapping of I.D. cards in the UK, in the Queens Speech yesterday?
I say we copy the Brits on this one occasion.

Stinicker · 26-05-2010 6:43pm

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

If said ID card didn't cost 85€ and is NOT cumpolsory, then yes, I like the idea.

I would be against mandatory carrying of ID cards as it goes against our way of life. I am firmly in favour of them as travel documents for ease of use and as a cheaper alternative to a passport.

mikom · 26-05-2010 6:45pm

Stinicker wrote: »

Nearly all other EU countries have ID cards except the UK who cancelled their ID card programme due to costs.

Here's your problem.
Unless we plan to print them out with the electronic voting machines in storage.

Stinicker · 26-05-2010 6:50pm

mikom wrote: »

Here's your problem.

A national ID card programme could be implemented in a far better way than the UK went about it, they were to create a massive database of personal information and monitor everything, in the process creating massive expenditure and jobs for the public sector. Labour's political ideaology of statist socialism derailed a good plan by making it so bloated and full of H.S.E style "jobs for the boys" that it was the first thing Cameron snipped when he got in. Plus there were privacy concerns due to the way they implemented it. By rolling out our ID card as a travel document rather than a big brother survlliance database then I can imagine the government even making a bit of money out of it.

syklops · 26-05-2010 6:52pm

Why is it such a hassle to bring your passport?

oppenheimer1 · 26-05-2010 6:59pm

It depends on the context. First of all I would be opposed to the mandatory carrying of an identity document, like which happens on the continent. I don't like the idea of some inspector demanding to know who I am at any time, whether I've done nothing wrong or not.

What I would be in favour of is an Identity document which is used to access state benefits. This would have to be a sophisticated biometric one, which could help combat fraud. On the other hand, if a way to circumvent the technology is found it could lead to an increase in fraud as people tend to trust these "unforgeable" documents.

Is a retina/fingerprint scan too much to ask for to get the dole?

Run_to_da_hills · 26-05-2010 7:02pm

okioffice84 wrote: »

"May I see your papers please?"

You said it. :eek:

Turtyturd · 26-05-2010 7:07pm

syklops wrote: »

Why is it such a hassle to bring your passport?

He is embarrassed by the photo.

syklops · 26-05-2010 7:17pm

A while back I did a presentation to some managers in the company I worked to demonstrate why I didnt think they should invest in fingerprint scanner functionality in the new laptops they were buying. They dealt with quite sensitive information and wanted as much security as possible.

On the way to the presentation i bough some talcum powder, sellotape and dark paper. I took a very clean thumb print off the catch on the front of the laptop where the lid closed. Using the sellotape I transferred it to the paper, and then wrapped the paper around my finger. Open sesame, it authenticated me.

Biometrics is not developed enough yet to give proper security in my opinion. The hardest one to fake is a retinal scan, but the cost of the hardware to perform the scan is collossal. Then you have to store the image of hash on an electronic card, and use that to authenticate the user. It could be possible to not fake the retina scan, but instead just insert a retina scan of the identity theft's eye onto the card he has nicked. Then he will have a perfectly legal card, that is actually a fake.

The cheapest biometric is fingerprints but as Gil Grissom will show you, using fingerprints for authentication is like leaving your passwords lying around on bits of paper everywhere you go.

Mike 1972 · 26-05-2010 7:22pm

Stinicker wrote: »

Look at the trouble people are having trying to get passports issued due to the current industrial relations dispute.

Wheras a national ID card issuing authority would somehow be immune to experiencing issues with industrial relations ?

FAIL !

Run_to_da_hills · 26-05-2010 7:23pm

artanevilla wrote: »

I have a passport. Surely the same thing.

In a way yes if it your passport was issued after 16th October 2006 and the ID card contains the same 13.56mhz biometric chip.

Nolimits · 26-05-2010 7:24pm

I for one would have no problem with having a continental system whereby everyone has to carry around their id cards with them. I don't think the Gards should be allowed to ask to see someones "papers" for no reason but if you do something wrong it's an easy way for them to acertain your real name/address etc (not saying that the address should be printed on the card).

mikom · 26-05-2010 7:25pm

Stinicker wrote: »

A national ID card programme could be implemented in a far better way than the UK went about it,

Ah, Ireland.

sdanseo · 26-05-2010 7:31pm

Mandatory photo ID would be no inconvenience to me, I carry 2 forms of it with me everywhere anyway (Student Card and Drivers Licence).

Makes the Guards job a ton easier when checking identities and means you can't give a false name etc. if you have a card on you.

Mike 1972 · 26-05-2010 7:32pm

sdonn wrote: »

Mandatory photo ID would be no inconvenience to me, I carry 2 forms of it with me everywhere anyway (Student Card and Drivers Licence)..

So why do you think you need yet another ?

Sitec · 26-05-2010 7:34pm

What the fcuk is a Schengen?

Sound like a lidl beer.

mikom · 26-05-2010 7:36pm

Sitec wrote: »

What the fcuk is a Schengen?

Schengen, it's an area in Kneurgen, near the Joergen Fjords.
That's in the Klargen Province, near the Biburgen River.

Kasabian · 26-05-2010 7:40pm

I don't need an ID card , I know who I am.

I have a birth cert , passport , a driving licence , household bills , bank accounts , mobile phone and an IP address how much more do they need to know about me.

Run_to_da_hills · 26-05-2010 7:47pm

Kasabian wrote: »

I don't need an ID card , I know who I am.

I have a birth cert , passport , a driving licence , household bills , bank accounts , mobile phone and an IP address how much more do they need to know about me.

Give you a national ID card and the authorities will have access to your birth cert , passport , a driving licence , household bills , bank accounts , mobile phone and an IP address at the tip of their finger tips every time it is scanned.

Currently your PPS number is now required by up to 64 different departments.

One electronic card will satisfy all these departments.

Mike 1972 · 26-05-2010 7:54pm

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

One electronic card will satisfy all these departments.

And make identity fraudsters jobs so much easier...........

Run_to_da_hills · 26-05-2010 8:17pm

Mike 1972 wrote: »

And make identity fraudsters jobs so much easier...........

Precisely, and they can be scanned and cloned by a hacker from up to several feet away with current technology, even if they are concealed in your pocket. :eek:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9isKnDiJNPk

Mike 1972 · 26-05-2010 8:32pm

Rather than introducing ID cards it would make sense to improve the security of existing forms of ID such as Passports, Driving licences and PPS/RSI/NI/whatever theyre called these days cards.

Actually there is no good reason these days why all of the above cant even come in the form of a single credit card sized chip card.

That rigmarole for "certifying" passport photos is positively ludicrous

Run_to_da_hills · 26-05-2010 8:39pm

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Rather than introducing ID cards it would make sense to improve the security of existing forms of ID such as Passports, Driving licences and PPS/RSI/NI/whatever theyre called these days cards.

Actually there is no good reason these days why all of the above cant even come in the form of a single credit card sized chip card.

That rigmarole for "certifying" passport photos is positively ludicrous

All it would is for some sloppy civil servant to leave a pen drive or laptop lying about to fall into the wrong hands, and don't say that this hasn't happened before.

squod · 26-05-2010 8:39pm

There's already fuken kuntz foreign gangs working away at getting your laser details (easily). A bluetooth rifle and a linux laptop will steal whatever you'd like from your phone.

An ID card is essentiallly the keys to your whole life, hanging around for all to access. You'd want to be some fuhken moron........

Coriolanus · 26-05-2010 8:45pm

I think the proliferation of identity and card theft has shown the perils of some types of information technology.
Before, when you had to be known to people, to get anything donee ie: bank manager was your neighbour, doctor was your cousin from a town over etc, fraud was less prevalent.

So we need to either go back to that, or swing to the opposite extreme... Chips in everyones wrists and biometric testing at every atm, till, hospital and welfare centre in the country. :pac:

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 26-05-2010 8:48pm

mikom wrote: »

Schengen, it's an area in Kneurgen, near the Joergen Fjords.
That's in the Klargen Province, near the Biburgen River.

EAGLE RIVER???!

Sitec wrote: »

What the fcuk is a Schengen?

Sound like a lidl beer.

Nice to know you've researched the topic. Schengen is a continental european agreement that allows citizens to travel from country to country without a passport. It is, however, in Luxembourg, so you can rule out any fjord associations

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Agreement

Mike 1972 · 26-05-2010 8:51pm

squod wrote: »

There's already fuken kuntz foreign gangs working away at........

Im sure theres domestic ones too

sdanseo · 26-05-2010 10:05pm

Mike 1972 wrote: »

So why do you think you need yet another ?

I don't - but not everyone has a driving licence or student card. My point was that it is utterly zero inconvenience to me, and I;d say most people, to carry it.

People seem to object to this based purely on "big brother's watching you" drivel. In reality, it won't affect you at all unless you have something to hide when stopped in the street.

Another advantage to these would be as an age card - if it were mandatory it would likely be free and save you the €10 or €20 or whatever getting an age card.

mikom · 26-05-2010 10:10pm

sdonn wrote: »

I don't - but not everyone has a driving licence or student card. My point was that it is utterly zero inconvenience to me, and I;d say most people, to carry it.

Except when your wallet is stolen or lost............. then it's just another in a long line of cards you have to replace.

Mike 1972 · 26-05-2010 10:17pm

sdonn wrote: »

In reality, it won't affect you at all unless you have something to hide .

Oh no not this again :rolleyes:

sdonn wrote: »

if it were mandatory it would likely be free and save you the €10 or €20 or whatever getting an age card.

Are you sure ?

The proposed scrapped UK one was to have cost £30 (lowest estimate) In Poland there is a charge for issuing, renewing and even updating* their national ID cards. Even in the unlikely event that there were to be no charge for any that might be issued in Ireland the scheme will cost (a lot of) money to set up and run and unless the Government have some kind of secret magic money tree that they can fund it from..............

* Supposed to be done everytime one moves house etc

donkey balls · 26-05-2010 10:17pm

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

If said ID card didn't cost 85€ and is NOT cumpolsory, then yes, I like the idea.

most bus/truck drivers since 2006 have had to use a drivers digi card issued by the RSA for 50e,its a duplicate of your drivers licence(credit card size)and these are printed in the UK as we dont have a facilty here in Ireland to produce them.

bob50 · 26-05-2010 10:18pm

Stinicker wrote: »

A national ID card programme could be implemented in a far better way than the UK went about it, they were to create a massive database of personal information and monitor everything, in the process creating massive expenditure and jobs for the public sector. Labour's political ideaology of statist socialism derailed a good plan by making it so bloated and full of H.S.E style "jobs for the boys" that it was the first thing Cameron snipped when he got in. Plus there were privacy concerns due to the way they implemented it. By rolling out our ID card as a travel document rather than a big brother survlliance database then I can imagine the government even making a bit of money out of it.

Bringing in ID cards would be just the thin end of the wedge

on this issue best to follow Camerons plan to scrap them too much big brother for my liking

Lentil · 26-05-2010 10:23pm

Tattooed barcode IDs on the back of the head FTW

Mike 1972 · 26-05-2010 10:29pm

You mean like this

Lentil · 26-05-2010 10:44pm

Mike 1972 wrote: »

You mean like this

I was kinda aiming for a Fortress w/ Christopher Lambert type vibe. Apologies if I overshot the mark.

Coriolanus · 26-05-2010 10:46pm

Mike 1972 wrote: »

You mean like this

Don't be silly, that wouldn't scan. :rolleyes:

Something sexy like this would be preferable.

http://archvillain.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/jennifer_government.jpg

DazMarz · 26-05-2010 10:49pm

Might do no harm, if it had practical uses. If it was just something equally as useless as that bloody Garda I.D. card, then no.

Run_to_da_hills · 26-05-2010 10:51pm

Lentil wrote: »

Tattooed barcode IDs on the back of the head FTW

They have already started to barcode horses in some country, we could be next. :eek:

sdanseo · 26-05-2010 10:53pm

I just dont understand the big brother shíte.

What are the government going to do? Hunt you down and torture you for slagging biffo? FFS grow up. There are no big conspiracies and certainly not in Ireland - all we have is a pile of corrupt buffoons. They couldn't organise espionage if their lives depended on it!

Freedom is once thing - but objecting to a piece of platic that you have to carry is petty, i think.

Run_to_da_hills · 26-05-2010 11:02pm

sdonn wrote: »

I just dont understand the big brother shíte.

What are the government going to do? Hunt you down and torture you for slagging biffo? FFS grow up. There are no big conspiracies and certainly not in Ireland - all we have is a pile of corrupt buffoons. They couldn't organise espionage if their lives depended on it!

Freedom is once thing - but objecting to a piece of platic that you have to carry is petty, i think.

Scenario:

Paul Chambers joked on Twitter that he was going to blow up Robinhood Airport if he didn't make his flight at the end of the week.

A week later doors were kicked in, his PC's phones confiscated in a police "anti terrorist" raid. He was arrested and convicted and fined £1000 with his name on record.

This guy will be questioned and possibly banned from entering the US and other countries because of his criminal conviction.

Every time the authorities electronically scans his ID card this dirty streak will appear.

Lentil · 26-05-2010 11:03pm

sdonn wrote: »

I just dont understand the big brother shíte.

What are the government going to do? Hunt you down and torture you for slagging biffo? FFS grow up. There are no big conspiracies and certainly not in Ireland - all we have is a pile of corrupt buffoons. They couldn't organise espionage if their lives depended on it!

Freedom is once thing - but objecting to a piece of platic that you have to carry is petty, i think.

I jest about the Orwellian stuff. Personally I wouldn't have a major problem with it. The reservations I would have would be the (a) cost at a time when we can't really afford such schemes and (b) the fact that the govt would probably make a dogs dinner out of it, a la Electronic Voting.

Lentil · 26-05-2010 11:07pm

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Scenario:

Paul Chambers joked on Twitter that he was going to blow up Robinhood Airport if he didn't make his flight at the end of the week.

A week later doors were kicked in, his PC's phones confiscated in a police raid. He was arrested and convicted and fined £1000 with his name on record.

This guy will be questioned and possibly banned from entering the US and other countries because of his criminal conviction.

Every time a cop electronically scans his ID card this dirty streak on his record will show up.

Point taken, but imo that is more an indictment of the surveillance / PC-mad culture behind the enforcement rather than the notion of another ID-card scheme.

Stinicker · 26-05-2010 11:23pm

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Scenario:

Paul Chambers joked on Twitter that he was going to blow up Robinhood Airport if he didn't make his flight at the end of the week.

A week later doors were kicked in, his PC's phones confiscated in a police "anti terrorist" raid. He was arrested and convicted and fined £1000 with his name on record.

This guy will be questioned and possibly banned from entering the US and other countries because of his criminal conviction.

Every time the authorities electronically scans his ID card this dirty streak will appear.

Serves him right really for being such an idiot to post such a thing. As a British citizen he probably doesn't have an ID card so won't worry him. However he was a child molester or pedophile wouldn't having this on his ID card be a good thing to alert authorities to his presence. Anyway this is going off topic from my original suggestion which is to introduce a National ID card to make travel easier and cut out some of the paperwork and the bureaucracy that goes with losing a passport.

National ID card for Ireland?

Would you support the introduction of a National ID card for citizens of Ireland? 111 votes

Comments