is marriage pointless these days?

I don't think marriage works in todays world. I would enter into a contract to start a family though. We agree to have a kid and do our best to raise it it would last 18 years. The parents wouldn't necessarily have to stay faithful to they're partner but would have to consider whats best for the child. It's what happens in the real world anyway once two people have a child they're stuck together for all time no matter what happens.

I can't believe nobody has mentioned the one thing that will solve all these problems about marriage being unfair to men, ball and chain, etc.?

Pre-nuptials - simple as!

There you go, solves all the problems just like that!

But how legally binding are they really if challenged?

Ninja_scrotum wrote:

A very rare sight is two wedded 40yr olds holding hands....

I'm still a bit shy of 40, more so than my Mrs (I iz toyboy ), but we hold hands or I'll have my arm around whenever we're out - be that in Grafton St, Dundrum SC or Marlay Park. Oh yeah... been married 11 years, together 14, one kid.

And we've been through th1ck & sh1t a few times. Never between us, I'll gladly say, but when dealing with some of the very, very bad sh1t life throws your way now and then. The kind of bad sh1t that easily kills relationships these days, that involve money, or career, or cultural shock (coming over here was kinda hard on her system, getting better now ). But the same rule of thumb applies for marriages as it does for friendships: you find out who your true friends are at your most desperate hour. And your wife (or husband, for female readers) should be the very best friend of them all.

I just found out a "living Will" have no legal status but your "Final will" has, by carefully stating it you will have. It is still considers your wishes beyond your families concern.

limklad wrote:

For example the Tax credits, they used to be shared/transferable. Slowly they comes up with the times and split these too as many people are living together are not married, and with divorce numbers are increasing in this counter.

What is your point here, hard to understand.Tax Credits are still transferrable for married/separated couples? depending on what is most advantageous.

limklad wrote:

Guardianship rights can be shared equally between parents provide the Female sign a legal guardianship forms. http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1998/en/si/0005.html
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/birth-family-relationships/unmarried-couples/access_to_children_and_unmarried_couples

Still requires the mothers permission.

limklad wrote:

If she leaves the marriage, she takes the rights with her. That leaves the male are her mercy, which is very bad on the male perfective.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/birth-family-relationships/separation-and-divorce/separation_and_divorce_children
Again signing of the Guardianship form will change this.

No, a father is an automatic guardian by virtue of marriage. Not so with unmarried fathers. There is no form to sign.
[/quote]

Seanies32 wrote:

What is your point here, hard to understand.Tax Credits are still transferrable for married/separated couples? depending on what is most advantageous.

Short term gain for a few measly euro, compare to long term pain, in what you pay if your wife divorce you (Even if she in the wrong). You lose no matter what.

Seanies32 wrote:

Still requires the mothers permission.
]

What Planet are you on I already stated this, she has to sign the guardianship form to allow you this right, otherwise you have none!

Seanies32 wrote:

No, a father is an automatic guardian by virtue of marriage. Not so with unmarried fathers. There is no form to sign.

[/quote]
Again, What Planet are you on I already stated this and even gave you the links to prove it. Here it is again since you fail to read it last time
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/birth-family-relationships/married-couples/guardianship_status_of_fathers
&
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1998/en/si/0005.html

You do not have to marry her to gain Guardianship rights over the child. Otherwise the Marriage is based on control over you, and you become second fiddle in the relationship, and it is doom to fail once the child becomes 18.
and another link
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/birth-family-relationships/unmarried-couples/legal_guardianship_and_unmarried_couples

limklad wrote:

Short term gain for a few measly euro, compare to long term pain, in what you pay if your wife divorce you (Even if she in the wrong). You lose no matter what.

I'd go the other way and say tax credits should be based on children.

Obviously this wont apply if there's no children but Eg. after divorce both parents can claim the one parent tax credit. So in fact the Revenue are losing when couples divorce, they're in effect giving 2 Married tax credits to the one couple! Whereas before they gave one.

It's a common misconception limklad that Revenue favours marriage, when, by the same logic you could say Revenue favours Seperation.

Actually, they favour One parent Families, because:

Father of OP family is entitled to Tax Credit of €3,520
Mother " " " " " " " " " " €3,520
Married Family €3,520

If you want to bring Revenue into it, they favour One parent and Divorced couples!

limklad wrote:

What Planet are you on I already stated this, she has to sign the guardianship form to allow you this right, otherwise you have none!

I stated somewhere, Donegal are AI champions as they're the best team in Ireland. They won the League! Doesn't mean I'm right.

Actually mothers do not have to sign anything regarding guardianship! Married fathers get guardianship automatically. Unmarried mothers do not have to sign any form regarding guardianship, only by consent. If she doesn't consent, the father applies to court.

Also as I'll go on to prove, married/divorced fathers don't need the mother to sign anything!They are automatically guardians. Even unmarried fathers can get it awarded by the court, against the mothers wishes.

limklad wrote:

Again, What Planet are you on I already stated this and even gave you the links to prove it. Here it is again since you fail to read it last time
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/birth-family-relationships/married-couples/guardianship_status_of_fathers
&
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1998/en/si/0005.html

No, I'm on Earth and have the internet and have an active interest in this area that you seem to know so much about. Actually, I did read it and as I knew you gave incorrect information, to a dad on another thread in personal issues, I'll post my link:
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/birth-family-relationships/separation-and-divorce/separation_and_divorce_childrenp://

Wasn't going to post this on AH as well, but seen as you took that tone there you are:
Married parents are automatically joint guardians of their children. Neither separation nor divorce changes this. (A father who is not married to the mother of his child does not have automatic guardianship rights in relation to that child. You can read more about the Guardianship status of fathers in Ireland in our separate document on this subject).

limklad wrote:

You do not have to marry her to gain Guardianship rights over the child.

Actually, if you're an unmarried father that is the only way you're guarenteed guardianship, so wrong again! Otherwise it's at the mothers or judges discretion, so you are slightly wrong again.Obviously, I wouldn't advise marriage just to get guardianship, but your post is incorrect. It's the only way it's guarenteed without a mother or judges consent. If the mother and indeed judge refused, you'd have to marry her to be guarenteed it.

limklad wrote:

Otherwise the Marriage is based on control over you, and you become second fiddle in the relationship, and it is doom to fail once the child becomes 18.
and another link
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/birth-family-relationships/unmarried-couples/legal_guardianship_and_unmarried_couples

Actually, for once, I don't particularly disagree with you there.

Guardianship is not a reason to get married. It can be easily awarded, and in the vast majority of cases, is, awarded outside of marriage.

I do agree you have an interest in this area, and I completely welcome it, please do some more research. Citizens Information isn't always a reliable source! And yes, I know, I'm after posting a link there, but I'm not looking for information to suit me! After a lot of interest and research in this area, I know this is correct. If you can post a link from somewhere beside Citizen Information, feel free, and I'll see if I can agree to it.

Anyway, enuff said, btw, what planet do you live on?

Seanies32 wrote:

[/color]
I'd go the other way and say tax credits should be based on children.

Obviously this wont apply if there's no children but Eg. after divorce both parents can claim the one parent tax credit. So in fact the Revenue are losing when couples divorce, they're in effect giving 2 Married tax credits to the one couple! Whereas before they gave one.

It's a common misconception limklad that Revenue favours marriage, when, by the same logic you could say Revenue favours Seperation.

Actually, they favour One parent Families, because:

Father of OP family is entitled to Tax Credit of €3,520
Mother " " " " " " " " " " €3,520
Married Family €3,520

If you want to bring Revenue into it, they favour One parent and Divorced couples!
[/color]

The revenue/Dept of Finance is discriminating against Single Fathers who are raising Children!!! Court case to be had to force them obtain equal rights as they are in breach of equal rights treaty that they sign up for.

Seanies32 wrote:

Actually mothers do not have to sign anything regarding guardianship! Married fathers get guardianship automatically. Unmarried mothers do not have to sign any form regarding guardianship, only by consent. If she doesn't consent, the father applies to court.

I know this but if you been reading my previous posts you see that i am arguing that you do not have to get married to gain guardianship as most mothers see what benfit to the child rather than themselves. especially when the mother dies or some unfortunate things happen, and the mother is not contactable for some reason and a decision needs to be taken for the child sake.

Seanies32 wrote:

Also as I'll go on to prove, married/divorced fathers don't need the mother to sign anything!They are automatically guardians. Even unmarried fathers can get it awarded by the court, against the mothers wishes.

Again you have proven this for me, another "Thank you", with one exception, Divorce fathers are no longer "married" therefore "unmarried". Again the devil is in the detail, and it is that trap that people fall into.

Seanies32 wrote:

Actually, if you're an unmarried father that is the only way you're guarenteed guardianship, so wrong again!

I never said this, What is said is that you do not have to get married to achieve guardianship only when she signs the Guardianship forms, REread all of my post and you will see this.

Seanies32 wrote:

Otherwise it's at the mothers or judges discretion,

I have already state this.

Seanies32 wrote:

so you are slightly wrong again.Obviously, I wouldn't advise marriage just to get guardianship, but your post is incorrect.

Where did I state this, again you are wrong and jumping to assumptions about what I have already said.

Seanies32 wrote:

It's the only way it's guarenteed without a mother or judges consent. If the mother and indeed judge refused, you'd have to marry her to be guarenteed it.

Now you are susgesting the the father has to marry the mother to gain guardianship. This can only happen if you marry her before the child was born, otherwise you do not have automatic guardianship as you are not married at the time of birth.

Seanies32 wrote:

Actually, for once, I don't particularly disagree with you there.

This thread is full of contentd that you disagree with me more than once!!

Seanies32 wrote:

Guardianship is not a reason to get married.

I never said it was a reason but a method of achieve it but not the only one.

Seanies32 wrote:

It can be easily awarded, and in the vast majority of cases, is, awarded outside of marriage.

I aggree with you here and post the statistics to prove it and again you have proven my point that guardianship can be awarded without getting married, therefore marriage is pointless and child guardianship and custody can be shared outside marriage.

Most people are smart enough to know if you do not get on be civil (you do not have to like) your child father/mother to raise a child.
Because the only Judge that really matters is the Child, for they grow up mighty fast and can burn you for your misdeeds as they know you best and eventually find out the truth.

Seanies32 wrote:

what planet do you live on?

touchy, touchy getting emotional here are you.

To wrap thing up. marriage is pointless for every other reason with the one main exception, that both partners going into it are in love and truely respect each other, otherwise it is cleary pointless and expect it to be doomed.

The devil is always in the detail in which most people overlook.

Thaedydal wrote:

wow tha tis some drum you have there limklad.

Nothing more or less than you have done in the past

Thaedydal wrote:

cleary for you marraige is pointless.

Nope! I never said that.

Marriage is about both couples been committed in supporting, loving and respecting each other. Getting married is to display this or show off is there is a better term nowadays, but as most of us know, people make bad mistakes when choosing their life partner and or even think that marrying the other is the solution or temporary solution to their problems whenever it is self insecurity or not.

Anything less than commitment to your partner, then it is pointless.

unless your are a foreigner and what to gain legal status in this country!!

I just love a good debate, every now and again. Don't You?

cance wrote:

wow limklad, i can only hope i never share your opinions.

I never expect anyone to share if they do not want to.

cance wrote:

I'm engaged to be married and havent a single doubt in my mind.

Good for you, but Are you sure? Innocent love, how it managed to cloud over the cracks. :eek:

If you were you would not have the following insecurity!!

cance wrote:

and stop changing the f*ckin text colour of all of your posts to black, its not neccessary and it screws with the cloud theme!

It must be you browser I do not see it. As my text is in black.:p

My girlfriend is laughing while reading these posts, she tell me how easy it is to rub other people noses the wrong way, just by having an opinion or people misreading other people posts and attacking them as she puts it when they responds.

I want her or any future prospective wife to know all my faults and accept that and vica versa.

limklad wrote:

I never expect anyone to share if they do not want to.

Good for you, but Are you sure? Innocent love, how it managed to cloud over the cracks. :eek:

If you were you would not have the following insecurity!!
It must be you browser I do not see it. As my text is in black.:p

A: i find your posting immature and irrational, troll alert tbh.
B: its not a feckin browser issue i can see your COLOR tags when i quote you.

cance wrote:

A: i find your posting immature and irrational, troll alert tbh.

Same for you,as you have proven inmature in dealing with a friendly comment and then try to ban others when you do not agree, That trolling in itself

OK, I admit I am a newly wed - but I was with my husband for 9 years on and off before I married him. In the end it came down to me wanting to have him officially as family in front of the state, God and our family and friends. There is something special in being married to your soul mate.

When it comes to the question of whether marriage is pointless or not depends on how the two people entering into a marriage view it - if they think it is indeed pointless, then it will be to them, bringing the various problems that previous posters have mentioned. If they respect the idea, then it more often than not will work out well as they will work at the marriage.

Personally speaking, I didn't see the point of marriage when I was younger, sure "it was only a bit of paper" etc. However, my view changed when I met a person with whom I could see the "point" of marriage. It was a declaration that from that point on, the most important person in each of our lives would be each other, with all the rights and responsibilities that comes with that.

We didn't go for a big fancy church wedding putting ourselves into debt as for us, it was a personal commitment to each other, shared with family and friends, and neither of us could bear the thought of getting married in a church anyway for (anti) religious reasons.
For those saying that marriage is a big waste of money for a day out, the actual ceremony in a registry office costs somewhere in the region of 50 quid. Anything over and above this is purely down to the couple and what they fancy spending to have a day out celebrating, and whether they intend to "impress" people with their show. We did spend a few K on our wedding, but nowhere in the region of "regular" weddings, it was more like 5k including a good honeymoon, and was all paid for beforehand through savings rather than through loans to be paid afterwards.

And again from a personal view, I did find it changed things - for the better. Even in the run up to the day, I didn't think it would too change much except I could refer to the other half as my "husband" rather than boyfriend or partner, but it has crystallised everything for me (and himself) - you have declared your position to all and sundry, as a "team", who plan on working out a path through life together for better or for worse (that's in the vows like!).

I think that unfortunately in this day and age everything is about immediate gratification, and a very selfish culture of "look after number one" and this is why so many marriages fail - at the first hint of trouble, people cut and run as they just couldn't be bothered working anything out, or sticking through a rough patch, everything has to be perfect immediately or it's seeya I'm onto the next distraction that will suit me. A pity for sure.

Thaedydal wrote:

Yes there are issues in regards to parental right and the rights of children and the fact that an amicable break up where parents respect each other and do what is best for thier children seem to be unheard of in this country but that should not be a reason to say marriage is pointless.

Using Parental rights as reason to get married only cause other problems, especially when they fall in love with other people therefore they are not commit to each other in the first place, therefore it is pointless!

limklad wrote:

I never expect anyone to share if they do not want to.

Good for you, but Are you sure? Innocent love, how it managed to cloud over the cracks. :eek:

If you were you would not have the following insecurity!!
It must be you browser I do not see it. As my text is in black.:p

My girlfriend is laughing while reading these posts, she tell me how easy it is to rub other people noses the wrong way, just by having an opinion or people misreading other people posts and attacking them as she puts it when they responds.

I want her or any future prospective wife to know all my faults and accept that and vica versa.

Hi.
You'll have to be logged out to read this, but could you relate the following out to your girlfriend, please?

"limklad has just been banned from After Hours for trolling."

Now picture the scene from the Simpsons, where the Simpson family are burning the Flanders' at the stake.
"Now who's laughing? Now who's laughing?"

That is all.