Ryanair bid for Aer Lingus

Capt'n Midnight · 21-07-2012 1:58am

n97 mini wrote: »

Plenty of airlines have pockets deep enough to offer €0.00 seats long enough to establish a foot hold surely?

You mean like Easyjet ?

Ryanair made €500 million last year

Average fares rose 16 per cent and traffic increased by 5 per cent, leading to a 25 per cent increase in profits to €503 million, the airline said today.
...
The company’s fuel bill rose to over €360 million as oil prices increased by 16 per cent over the past year. In a statement, the airline said that high oil prices had forced competitors to increase fares and fuel surcharges.

Note - Fares have gone UP in a recession
The profit is larger than the fuel costs

bk · 21-07-2012 9:07am

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

You mean like Easyjet ?

But note Easyjet rarely competes head on with Ryanair. If they start trying to get into a price war with Ryanair, that profit will evaporate very quickly. No airline will take on Ryanair in their own back yard. Just not going to happen.

And it still won't give ballooba want he claims he wants. Easyjet is just another low cost carrier, with no frequent flyer program, etc.

Chinasea · 21-07-2012 9:35am

What naive nonsense I am reading.

I worked for an American phone company who set up shop in Ireland once the whole deregulation happened in communications. We were gobsmacked to find that when we pitched 50% cheaper rates to the Irish customers they were very reluctant or indeed not willing to switch as they wanted to remain blindly faithful to their robbing Irish model.

In a way the loyalty was admirable, but when I see posts like the many on here it smacks of brainwashed dumbness.

Aer blo**y Lingus have been robbing the Irish blind for too many years. A plane is plane for f's sake and no pilot be it Aer Lingus or Ryan Air will get in a plane if they believe it unfit to fly. I see no difference whatsoever with my relatively short journey to European destinations on either carrier.
I believe the media have had it in for Ryanair since they began. Funny that a government backed Airline gets such preferential media treatment.

Keep going guys, as you will soon have shot the goose that lays the golden egg and you will be stranded on this godforsaken Island of the 1970’s with flights that only Boybands can afford.

bk · 21-07-2012 10:19am

Chinasea you seem to have no idea what you are talking about. No one is saying anything about safety concerns. Both Ryanair and Aerlingus are some of the safest airlines in Europe with some of the youngest airline fleets in Europe.

Our concern is that if Ryanair buy Aerlingus, they will end up with close to 80% of all flights out of Ireland and will therefore become a defacto monopoly and raise prices. Simple as that.

Personally whenever I fly I check both Ryanair and Aerlingus. I often actually find Aerlingus cheaper and therefore fly with them, if not I fly Ryanair.

And what is all this rubbish about killing the goose? Ryanair is the largest airline in Europe. Even if they are blocked from buying Aerlingus, this won't change one bit. It will just mean that Irish people will continue to have a choice between two strong competitors to get off this island, as you put it.

As for Easyjet filling the Aerlingus void, take a look at this map of Easyjets destinations:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Easyjetdestinations.png

Note how the Republic of Ireland is one of the few countries in Europe they don't fly too. But that wasn't always the case, they use to fly to Cork, Shannon and Knock. That is until Ryanair ran them out of town.

Easyjest won't be coming back for a repeat of that price war.

L1011 · 21-07-2012 11:21am

Chinasea wrote: »

Aer blo**y Lingus have been robbing the Irish blind for too many years

If there's blind loyalty here, its you to Ryanair.

Aer Lingus are very often cheaper than Ryanair for the same route/date combination. Ryanair haven't been a particularly cheap airline for some time.

Ryanair only sell as many seats as they do as people assume they are *always* cheaper and don't check anyone else. Irish people have a surreal Stockholm Syndrome towards Ryanair.

bmaxi · 21-07-2012 1:40pm

Chinasea wrote: »

Keep going guys, as you will soon have shot the goose that lays the golden egg and you will be stranded on this godforsaken Island of the 1970’s with flights that only Boybands can afford.

Very possibly, and unfortunately for the travelling public those flights will be provided by Ryanair.

etchyed · 21-07-2012 2:36pm

There are a depressing number of really quite thick people posting in this thread, who seem to have attached a personality to Ryanair and become emotionally attached to it, rather than realising that it's a business, which will always have as its number one priority the maximisation of profit, as any business should.

Capt'n Midnight · 21-07-2012 2:55pm

bk wrote: »

But note Easyjet rarely competes head on with Ryanair. If they start trying to get into a price war with Ryanair, that profit will evaporate very quickly. No airline will take on Ryanair in their own back yard. Just not going to happen.

And it still won't give ballooba want he claims he wants. Easyjet is just another low cost carrier, with no frequent flyer program, etc.

Go and Easyjet did try to compete with Ryanair on their own turf.

Who else has ?

The key point is the high cost airlines will charge more than the low cost ones. If prices rise at the bottom of the market , they will rise at the top. London - Dublin.

To book a Ryanair flight to London today it's €247 + extras , there is one cheap flight on August 10 (25.99+ ) but they are hoping you'll be one of the 10% or so who don't fly (an extra cost of booking in advance) Beyond this there are flights for 17+

I've always said Ryanair break even on the basics and the extras are pure profit.

They have and will defend this right to gouge the punters.

The high cost airlines don't really cares since they are going after a different market segment , people who will pay extra not to use Ryanair.

Yes there may be an overlap between Ryanair and the Flag Carriers, but it's not that big and it's not worth a real fares war (yes there will be ads on both sides but nothing serious)

n97 mini · 21-07-2012 3:35pm

MYOB wrote: »

If there's blind loyalty here, its you to Ryanair.

I didn't get that at all from his post. Anti Aer Lingus, yes, and like me he has a long memory. Aer Lingus shafted the Irish public for the first, I dunno, 50 years of their existence?

n97 mini · 21-07-2012 4:01pm

MYOB wrote: »

Aer Lingus are very often cheaper than Ryanair for the same route/date combination. Ryanair haven't been a particularly cheap airline for some time.

Do a couple of random comparisons using Skyscanner.ie without actually searching for instances where either airlines is cheaper.

1. Tomorrow DUB-LGW
Lufthansa €100 via Paris
Ryanair €117
Aer Lingus €188

2. 22nd Sept DUB-LGW
Ryanair €21
Aer Lingus €41

3. Tomorrow DUB-EDI
Aer Lingus €83
Ryanair €124

4. 22nd Sept DUB-EDI
Ryanair €21
Aer Lingus €46

5. 22nd Sept DUB-VNO
Ryanair €61
Aer Lingus €102

6. 23 July DUB-VNO (no flights tomorrow)
Air Baltic €192 (via VIX)
Ryanair €281
Aer Lingus €301

Six flights, short notice and two months notice.
EI cheapest on one flight.
FR cheapest on three flights.
FR cheaper than EI on five flights.
Price misalignment on one flight by FR (#6)
Price misalignment on two flights by EI (#6, #1)
Total cost if flown with FR: €604
Total cost if flown with EI: €761 (+26%)

My loyalty is to my wallet, and I would have flown FR for 1, 2, 4 and 5. IE for 3 and Air Baltic for 6.

bmaxi · 21-07-2012 4:13pm

n97 mini wrote: »

I didn't get that at all from his post. Anti Aer Lingus, yes, and like me he has a long memory. Aer Lingus shafted the Irish public for the first, I dunno, 50 years of their existence?

Yet now you want to grant the same opportunity to Ryanair. I don't know what grounds you have to assume that removing competition will mean Ryanair will keep prices low. Do you think that removing Aldi, Dunne's, Lidl, Supervalu etc, would mean Tesco would still be a cheap place to shop? Doesn't make any business sense whatsoever. There are no moral values when it comes to share values.

L1011 · 21-07-2012 4:26pm

n97 mini wrote: »

I didn't get that at all from his post. Anti Aer Lingus, yes, and like me he has a long memory. Aer Lingus shafted the Irish public for the first, I dunno, 50 years of their existence?

You should read his post more clearly "believe the media has it in for Ryanair" for starters.

One of many people in this country who believe the Sainted Mick can do no wrong.

Do those SkyScanner prices include Ryanair's multitude of unavoidable extras? Or take in to account that its generally cheaper to take a bag on any other airline but them?

bkehoe · 21-07-2012 4:52pm

MYOB wrote: »

Do those SkyScanner prices include Ryanair's multitude of unavoidable extras? Or take in to account that its generally cheaper to take a bag on any other airline but them?

And the fact that Aer Lingus allow one to have more hand luggage - a bag such as a laptop bag in addition to your main carryon.

Back to the topic of Aer Lingus being sold, I and most other people in the industry would be of the strong opinion that Ryanair holding such a large amount of Aer Lingus shares at the moment is actually a deterrent to another large airline group launching a takeover offer. Once they're forced to sell their shareholding it should become clearer what future path Aer Lingus takes. Personally I think that if in 10 years they're still independent then that's not a problem. EI very successfully serves the market it's targeted at and provides a quality service for its passengers. The growth opportunities are quite limited for an airline that doesn't have growth plans like an airline like Ryanair...if they're making money then let them continue.

jackofalltrades · 21-07-2012 5:13pm

n97 mini wrote: »

Plenty of airlines have pockets deep enough to offer €0.00 seats long enough to establish a foot hold surely?

Easyjet would be the airline with one of the closest operating costs and they got their fingers burnt to the extent that they pulled out of Ireland. You've mentioned Lufthansa and Air France-KLM, both of which have a higher cost base, lower % revenue from ancillaries, don't have a base in Ireland and wouldn't have the same brand recognition with the Irish public.

And on top of all that, these airlines would be risking Ryanair competiting head to head with them in their own countries.

n97 mini · 21-07-2012 5:21pm

MYOB wrote: »

You should read his post more clearly "believe the media has it in for Ryanair" for starters.

Saw that, still don't get any love for Ryanair.

MYOB wrote: »

Do those SkyScanner prices include Ryanair's multitude of unavoidable extras?

Yes, all charges, including EI's €6 charge that you can't avoid even if you get a sad excuse for a debit card (like FR's).

n97 mini · 21-07-2012 5:24pm

bmaxi wrote: »

Yet now you want to grant the same opportunity to Ryanair. I don't know what grounds you have to assume that removing competition will mean Ryanair will keep prices low.

Hmm, you might need to read my posts again. I have no grá for EI for historical reasons, but I will still fly with them if they are the cheapest.

I am a firm believer in competition (almost fanatical), but I don't believe that competition has to be in the form of EI. As I said earlier, I don't expect EI to exist much in 10 years, even if Etihad or Lufthansa buys them.

L1011 · 21-07-2012 6:23pm

n97 mini wrote: »

Yes, all charges, including EI's €6 charge that you can't avoid even if you get a sad excuse for a debit card (like FR's).

Visa Electron for EI. No idea who here issues them, but its a bit more open than a Ryanair-issued card only as FR either have or are going to require.

Victor · 21-07-2012 8:26pm

etchyed wrote: »

There are a depressing number of really quite thick people posting in this thread

No need for comments like this.

n97 mini · 21-07-2012 11:02pm

MYOB wrote: »

Visa Electron for EI. No idea who here issues them, but its a bit more open than a Ryanair-issued card only as FR either have or are going to require.

Let's be fair here and not blinded by hatred.

FR have a useless debit card that almost no-one would want, but none the less it exists and you can avoid the €6 charge with it.

EI require a Visa Electron which is not issued in Ireland, and therefore the €6 is totally unavoidable.

Scores for Irish customer service on this particular issue:
FR 1 out of 100
EI 0 out of 100

bmaxi · 22-07-2012 10:40am

n97 mini wrote: »

Hmm, you might need to read my posts again. I have no grá for EI for historical reasons, but I will still fly with them if they are the cheapest.

I am a firm believer in competition (almost fanatical), but I don't believe that competition has to be in the form of EI. As I said earlier, I don't expect EI to exist much in 10 years, even if Etihad or Lufthansa buys them.

You come across as a supporter of Ryanair. It's hard to say what plans Etihad would have for AL if they were to buy it but whether it makes good business sense to spend upwards of €1bn just to secure Heathrow slots is debatable. I doubt if they would discontinue European flights and any competition to Ryanair is good news for the Irish travelling public.
The credit/debit card issue is a matter for regulation, personally I think it is extortion no matter who is doing it. I seem to remember Ryanair having a problem with the EU in this regard, can't recall the outcome but it obviously wasn't sufficient.

L1011 · 22-07-2012 12:28pm

n97 mini wrote: »

Let's be fair here and not blinded by hatred.

FR have a useless debit card that almost no-one would want, but none the less it exists and you can avoid the €6 charge with it.

EI require a Visa Electron which is not issued in Ireland, and therefore the €6 is totally unavoidable.

Scores for Irish customer service on this particular issue:
FR 1 out of 100
EI 0 out of 100

Its not like FR manage to get another % from the rest of their shambolic service, however.

n97 mini · 22-07-2012 12:40pm

MYOB wrote: »

Its not like FR manage to get another % from the rest of their shambolic service, however.

Maybe not, but lets not let blind hatred stand in the way of the actual facts.

bmaxi wrote:

You come across as a supporter of Ryanair.

My only loyalty is to my wallet. I fly with whoever gives me the best deal, be it FR, EI, or whoever.

thomasj · 22-07-2012 3:11pm

MYOB wrote: »

EU blocked it when they controlled far less (combined) of Irish traffic; EU will block it again.

O'Leary is just trying to drive the share price up to sell his stake to someone else.

Agree 100%!

Also isnt there a pending court case in the UK by competition authorities over there

thomasj · 22-07-2012 3:16pm

aer lingus is the reason you are seeing reasonable prices by Ryanair.

Do you think you'd be seeing the sane reasonable prices by Ryanair if aer lingus was to disappear?

SeanW · 22-07-2012 3:49pm

ballooba wrote: »

It's not an open market, because Aer Lingus is there providing a mediocre service to an undiscerning market.

Ehh ... isn't that Ryanair you're talking about?

As has been explained to you, Ryanairs' M.O. is to use its cash reserves to finance anti-competitive actions - gaining monopolies and scaring off competitors by lowering fares to cutthroat levels when faced with a new competitor only to jack fares way back up when the new competitor has fled.

They want a monopoly in Ireland. Pure and simple.

You are welcome to explain to us how it will benefit tourists etc to have one very ruthless company dominating a majority/plurality of all air traffic in and out of Ireland.

devnull · 22-07-2012 3:53pm

Aer Lingus are excellent on an average day of the year and are probably a little better than Ryanair on such days.

The trouble is they can't handle disruption very well, be that weather or any kind of disruption, Ryanair are much better in this regard and are much more reliable on such days.

Chinasea · 22-07-2012 6:42pm

thomasj wrote: »

aer lingus is the reason you are seeing reasonable prices by Ryanair.

Do you think you'd be seeing the sane reasonable prices by Ryanair if aer lingus was to disappear?

Oh wow.

The only reason that the ordinary person has been able to fly in the last 20 years outa and off this island is because of Ryanair. Anyway, if I'd have to start digging up the prices that we were all held ransom to pay by the 'beloved' government backed monopolised cartel airline called Aer Lingus I would be wasting my time.

We have seen on many of the routes that only Ryan Air fly to no outrageous over the top charges, all offered in the sale fares when they become available also.

Not very many of us were able to afford the extortionate prices that Aer Lingus charged in the 60’s,70’s & 80’s, and we were forced to puke our way back and forth on the sloppy boats to the UK and beyond.

As I said guys, keep going with your unfounded consternation for Ryanair, and we will be stranded on this godforsaken bankrupt island once again.

howiya · 22-07-2012 9:28pm

Chinasea wrote: »

Oh wow.

The only reason that the ordinary person has been able to fly in the last 20 years outa and off this island is because of Ryanair.

Wrong. The reason that the ordinary person can afford air travel is competition

thomasj · 22-07-2012 9:43pm

howiya wrote: »

Chinasea wrote: »

Oh wow.

The only reason that the ordinary person has been able to fly in the last 20 years outa and off this island is because of Ryanair.

Wrong. The reason that the ordinary person can afford air travel is competition

Nail on head! i would not trust one company - semistate or privitised to have sole ownership of the irish air industry. Lessons surely have been learned from when aer lingus was the only irish airline and had a grip dictating prices of flights.

We cannot afford to let o'leary have that sort of power.

n97 mini · 22-07-2012 9:47pm

thomasj wrote: »

aer lingus is the reason you are seeing reasonable prices by Ryanair.

And vice versa.

L1011 · 22-07-2012 10:09pm

Chinasea wrote: »

The only reason that the ordinary person has been able to fly in the last 20 years outa and off this island is because of Ryanair.

No, its deregulation. No Ryanair and it'd have been another airline.

You appear to manage to forget that it wasn't just Aer Lingus charging those prices back then - most routes across all of Europe including Ireland had a duopoly of both national carriers of the end countries.

It wasn't Ryanair who brought prices down in the rest of Europe, seeing as when deregulation came about they were teetering towards bankruptcy and charging nearly the same price as Aer Lingus for an inferior attempt at full service (business class, loyalty scheme, food on board, the works) in wrecks of aircraft.

Chinasea wrote: »

As I said guys, keep going with your unfounded consternation for Ryanair, and we will be stranded on this godforsaken bankrupt island once again.

Its Ryanair who want to bring us back to a monopoly situation, nobody else. When they get told they can't buy Aer Lingus they aren't going to pull their remaining flights out in a huff.

And if they did, you can be that Jet2, EasyJet and Wizz would be in in a minute.

n97 mini · 22-07-2012 11:49pm

MYOB wrote: »

they were teetering towards bankruptcy and charging nearly the same price as Aer Lingus for an inferior attempt at full service (business class, loyalty scheme, food on board, the works) in wrecks of aircraft.

I flew Ryanair when they were a full fat airline, and while I was dubious at the time about their future, the service and aircraft were comparable to EI's. The only thing EI had that FR didn't have was control over the Irish market via protectionism.

Chinasea · 23-07-2012 6:48am

thomasj wrote: »

We cannot afford to let o'leary have that sort of power.

I'm not sure that is something you need to worry about. I don't think you would see a big queue of other air lines wanting to step in and work out of a country that is besieged with Industrial Relations issues, brown envelopes, and xenophobia.

Ask Richard Branson how he felt when he tried.... all he faced was the above listed nightmares and the rest.

ballooba · 23-07-2012 11:43am

Chinasea wrote: »

Ask Richard Branson how he felt when he tried.... all he faced was the above listed nightmares and the rest.

I didn't realise that Virgin used to operate out of Ireland. It's funny that Brussels Airlines, which was partially formed from Virgin Express, is now owned by Etihad. Etihad now own 10% of Virgin Australia too, and could be a buyer for EI. God bless my EY Gold Card.

L1011 · 23-07-2012 4:40pm

n97 mini wrote: »

I flew Ryanair when they were a full fat airline, and while I was dubious at the time about their future, the service and aircraft were comparable to EI's. The only thing EI had that FR didn't have was control over the Irish market via protectionism.

The aircraft were only comparable if you were blind and/or (preferably and) deaf.

ROMBAC 1-11's and antique 737-200s vs. virtually brand new 737 Classics.

n97 mini · 23-07-2012 5:47pm

MYOB wrote: »

The aircraft were only comparable if you were blind and/or (preferably and) deaf.

ROMBAC 1-11's and antique 737-200s vs. virtually brand new 737 Classics.

EI had BAC 1-11's up till when, 1990? FR operated them at the same time, and I don't recall them being significantly different.

By 1992 EI had a new set of aircraft, mostly funded by the tax-payer, in preparation for deregulation, but in 1990 FR re-launched itself as a low fares airline so comparing the planes or service from 1990 onwards is pointless.

Solair · 23-07-2012 6:38pm

I think people need to realise that it's competition between Ryanair and Aer Lingus that has driven prices down in Ireland.

If the two become one, we end up with less choice and higher prices.

Aer Lingus is also an extremely efficient carrier by any international comparison and has extremely competitive ticket prices on most routes.

Also, because Ryanair's an ultra-low-frills carrier. Effectively, it's the Aldi of aviation, it is not the kind of airline that is going to be attractive to people who do actually value a bit of comfort in aviation.

While Aer Lingus doesn't have business class on short haul anymore, it is still a hell of a lot more pleasant to use than Ryanair and does offer premium seating, reserved seating, lounges etc.

I just cannot see how this deal could be anything but bad for choice and bad for consumers and bad for Ireland.

L1011 · 23-07-2012 6:44pm

n97 mini wrote: »

EI had BAC 1-11's up till when, 1990? FR operated them at the same time, and I don't recall them being significantly different.

By 1992 EI had a new set of aircraft, mostly funded by the tax-payer, in preparation for deregulation, but in 1990 FR re-launched itself as a low fares airline so comparing the planes or service from 1990 onwards is pointless.

EIs were original production and properly maintained. FR's were Romanian licenced production and not.

More importantly, FR's relaunch as low cost was later than 1990 - more like 1992 or 3; I'd need to check.

Had they gone bust, a LCC from elsewhere would have entered the market and competition would have come from that front. The rewritten history that Ryanair were a shining white knight of cheap fares that burst on the scene to reduce prices is just that - a rewrite. Not true, didn't happen. Deregulation reduced prices, across Europe; not Ryanair.

n97 mini · 23-07-2012 7:26pm

MYOB wrote: »

EIs were original production and properly maintained. FR's were Romanian licenced production and not.

I wasn't party to maintenance routines, and as I said I don't remember as a customer much difference between FR's 1-11's and anyone else's. Tell me, did you actually travel on an FR 1-11?

MYOB wrote: »

The rewritten history that Ryanair were a shining white knight of cheap fares that burst on the scene to reduce prices is just that - a rewrite. Not true, didn't happen. Deregulation reduced prices, across Europe; not Ryanair.

No-one is claiming otherwise?

MYOB wrote: »

More importantly, FR's relaunch as low cost was later than 1990 - more like 1992 or 3; I'd need to check.

Ryanair website wrote:

1990
After three years of rapid growth in aircraft, routes and intense price competition with Aer Lingus and British Airways, Ryanair accumulates £20m in losses and goes through a substantial restructuring. The Ryan family invest a further £20m. in the company, and copying the Southwest Airlines low fares model the airline is re-launched under new management as Europe's first low fares airline

Who's rewriting history now then?

L1011 · 23-07-2012 7:48pm

n97 mini wrote: »

I wasn't party to maintenance routines, and as I said I don't remember as a customer much difference between FR's 1-11's and anyone else's. Tell me, did you actually travel on an FR 1-11?

Yes, once thankfully

Suffered the 737-200s far more than I'd wish on my worst enemy.

n97 mini wrote: »

Who's rewriting history now then?

Ryanair. Or more accurately, they're using "1990" to refer to the beginning of a restructuring program, that did not consist solely of them deciding to be an LCC overnight.

They flew full-service to the new STN terminal - which opened in 1991. Full service and frills continued for some time after 1990; the start of the restructuring primarily consisted of cutting their route network back to virtually nothing.

n97 mini · 23-07-2012 9:08pm

MYOB wrote: »

Suffered the 737-200s far more than I'd wish on my worst enemy.

Do you feel as a customer that FR's 737-200s were worse than EI's 737-200s?

MYOB wrote: »

Ryanair. Or more accurately, they're using "1990" to refer to the beginning of a restructuring program, that did not consist solely of them deciding to be an LCC overnight.

So they began in 1990 and finished around the same time EI had replaced its fleet in 1992, but the point still stands: Shiny new 737s owned by a high cost airline compared to older 737s owned by a LCC.

A friend of mine has a hate for FR that's largely based on things in his own brain, yet he still flies with them. He's a PITA.

L1011 · 23-07-2012 9:27pm

n97 mini wrote: »

Do you feel as a customer that FR's 737-200s were worse than EI's 737-200s?

I never travelled on an EI 737-200, however FR's were in a condition so appalling that I doubt EI have ever used a craft that bad. I've certainly never encountered one.

My last FR 737-200 flight involved sitting in a seat with a faulty reclining mechanism that slowly lowered me in to the passenger behind during the flight, and there wasn't another seat free. Should probably have notified the IAA about it as there isn't a chance it would have been safe in an accident, a bit late now though.

That craft (EI-CJE, Jaguar logojet) was actually withdrawn exactly a month later so I suspect there was a serious case of "can't be bothered" about mx work.

n97 mini wrote: »

So they began in 1990 and finished around the same time EI had replaced its fleet in 1992, but the point still stands: Shiny new 737s owned by a high cost airline compared to older 737s owned by a LCC.

A friend of mine has a hate for FR that's largely based on things in his own brain, yet he still flies with them. He's a PITA.

They began a restructuring plan in 1990. I'm still fairly certain they didn't begin any LCC efforts for some years after that. They still spent a fair amount of time attempting to compete as a full service carrier with wrecks, nothing can erase that bit of history. Even when EI had on paper identical craft, FRs were multiple-hand, poorly maintained heaps.

I've not flown FR in some years, and its not likely I ever will again.

n97 mini · 23-07-2012 10:20pm

MYOB wrote: »

I've not flown FR in some years, and its not likely I ever will again.

Did you have a bad experience?

Personally I have not had any bad experience with any airline. I fly 5 or 6 times a year, shorthall, chose who I fly with on price only, which means it's not always but nearly always FR.

L1011 · 23-07-2012 10:38pm

n97 mini wrote: »

Did you have a bad experience?

Not one particular experience, but many minor things:

being treated like dirt for daring to disturb the crew with my presence; wonky planes (that 732 wasn't the only one - I know their 738 fleet doesn't have those issues, yet anyway); dirty planes; delayed flights getting cancelled to preserve an on-time figure; being denied boarding in a time frame that any other airline would accept - and then later finding out the flight was delayed 30 minutes; being kept awake to be hawked crap, constantly, all flight; bugles for landing "on time" in an allocated flight time a Cessna 172 would have met easily; "We know you could have chosen another airline" speech on a monopoly route; being nickel and dimed at every opportunity; a booking website that if you make one slight change turns every available extra that you deselected back on.

I'm sure I can remember more.

n97 mini wrote: »

Personally I have not had any bad experience with any airline. I fly 5 or 6 times a year, shorthall, chose who I fly with on price only, which means it's not always but nearly always FR.

I fly 3-4 times a month in a normal month, some months more, few to no months less. And yes, that is mostly leisure flying. Price is important, but seeing as the difference to get treated properly is often 10% or less; its not important enough.

There has only been one single case where I spent significantly more than the FR price out of the last 100 sectors or so I've flown. DUB-LON at two days notice; and the main advantage of not flying FR was that the flight I got was at a respectable hour, not 6:30. And I do still check prices, just to reassure myself that I'm not pissing money away - and I'm not.

n97 mini · 23-07-2012 11:54pm

MYOB wrote: »

being treated like dirt for daring to disturb the crew with my presence;
wonky planes (that 732 wasn't the only one - I know their 738 fleet doesn't have those issues, yet anyway);
dirty planes;
delayed flights getting cancelled to preserve an on-time figure;
being denied boarding in a time frame that any other airline would accept - and then later finding out the flight was delayed 30 minutes;
being kept awake to be hawked crap, constantly, all flight;
bugles for landing "on time" in an allocated flight time a Cessna 172 would have met easily;
"We know you could have chosen another airline" speech on a monopoly route;
being nickel and dimed at every opportunity;
a booking website that if you make one slight change turns every available extra that you deselected back on.

I haven't had any of those on any airline, bar the being kept awake on an hour long flight due to the crew selling sh1te -- which I wouldn't have slept on anyway as I can't fall asleep on demand -- and the trumpets as a prelude to punctuality, which, while corny, is a minor foible. Neither are a reason not to fly with any airline on non-transatlantic routes in fairness.

MYOB wrote: »

Price is important, but seeing as the difference to get treated properly is often 10% or less; its not important enough.

Quite often I find the next nearest competitor is EI, and they can be 100% more expensive. But that's a moot point. If FR and EI were the same price all the time I would split my custom 50-50. For the same money EI provide a marginally better service but I can't forget how they shafted me and my family for decades.

MYOB wrote: »

And I do still check prices, just to reassure myself that I'm not pissing money away - and I'm not.

8 weeks in advance is the optimal time to book a flight, and my own research has shown that EI are generally twice the price of FR at that timeframe. That's of course not to say that FR are the cheapest either, but in 5 out of 6 cases they are cheaper than EI.

Capt'n Midnight · 23-07-2012 11:56pm

I can remember the Ryanair ATR 42's

weren't the RyanAir 737's ex-Lufthansa ?

timeline here
https://www.ryanair.com/en/about

ballooba · 29-07-2012 8:42pm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/transport/9436735/Etihad-eyes-seat-on-Aer-Lingus-board.html

Etihad wants board position, codeshare starts Tuesday.

Ryanair bid for Aer Lingus

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