Why Are We Forced To Do Religion For JC?

if832uspx4eogt · 28-01-2012 8:55pm #1

I hate religion its a f****** joke, learning about God when I could be doing something practical. Why are we forced into Religion? I don't even believe in God but I still have to do the exam!

And our class is a joke, nobody takes him seriously, I could really be doing something better with my time, like a study period.
So why is my school forcing this bullsh*t on me? :mad:

ButtonBox · 28-01-2012 9:14pm

Before you start attending a secondary school, you're supposed to know what subjects are mandatory or not. In some schools, religion is, so you have to take the exam (in the junior cert cycle anyway) whether you want to or not, unfortunately..

I agree, though. I'd like a free class to study, but that'd only be useful in exam years, you know? Other years would just doss most of the time like.
Religion class would be so much more fun if it wasn't an exam subject.

spurious · 29-01-2012 12:59am

Most Irish schools are owned by reigious orders or churches. Even VEC schools, which are not owned by them are obliged by law to give two hours of religion per week. It shows you how disgracefully under the heel of the church Irish governments have been and still are.

kelijryan · 29-01-2012 1:03am

the religion that is usualy in the jc isnt just about catholics, its about all world religions and how they started and what their culture is it can be interesting at times

3hn2givr7mx1sc · 29-01-2012 1:12am

spurious wrote: »

It shows you how disgracefully under the heel of the church Irish governments have been and still are.

If they were then it'd all be Catholocism. When I did my JC in 2009 there was much more emphasis on the other world religions than Catholocism. It's good to have some education and understanding of them, imo.

spurious · 29-01-2012 11:13am

baz2009 wrote: »

spurious wrote: »

It shows you how disgracefully under the heel of the church Irish governments have been and still are.

If they were then it'd all be Catholocism. When I did my JC in 2009 there was much more emphasis on the other world religions than Catholocism. It's good to have some education and understanding of them, imo.

The religion exam is no problem - it is a choice. The OP asked about having to do religion and the reason is church owned and church controlled and church influenced schools, be they catholic, protestant, islamic or jedi.

Outside an academic study or exam situation, it has no place in a school, imo.

conorcan2 · 29-01-2012 11:44am

spurious wrote: »

The religion exam is no problem - it is a choice. The OP asked about having to do religion and the reason is church owned and church controlled and church influenced schools, be they catholic, protestant, islamic or jedi.

Outside an academic study or exam situation, it has no place in a school, imo.

Spurious:

I went to a Christian brothers school. In religion class, there was a equal/greater coverage of non-catholic topics. Free debate was encouraged and I don't remember the teacher advocating Christian ideals. It was similar to how a secular, non-partisan class about religion should be. Maybe your experience was different.

I believe that it is important to learn about religion because it is one of the most powerful socio-economical-political influences in the world. You can learn about religion without having to believe in any of it.

The idea that education should merely be for productive ends is great for making students into producers, but there are other aspects of being human that don't have readily quantifiable results. History is another example of a subject that seems unproductive.

franciebellew · 29-01-2012 11:46am

What is jc?

conorcan2 · 29-01-2012 11:48am

Jesus Clones.

or Junior Cert...take your pick.

franciebellew · 29-01-2012 12:20pm

Who the fu-ck is Jesus clone?

Bazinga_N · 29-01-2012 9:43pm

Marshall Numerous Meat wrote: »

I hate religion its a f****** joke, learning about God when I could be doing something practical. Why are we forced into Religion? I don't even believe in God but I still have to do the exam!

And our class is a joke, nobody takes him seriously, I could really be doing something better with my time, like a study period.
So why is my school forcing this bullsh*t on me? :mad:

Firstly, I too am atheist, in matter of fact three out of the nineteen in our religion class is atheist, there is two Protestants, one Muslim and the other thirteen are Catholic. So, if our class was all about God, there would be some serious issues

!! So, in our class so far anyways, we studied Communities, Christianity, Islam and Morality? I'm guessing your teacher doesn't move on too quickly! :P Have you done anything else but Christianity?? Maybe your teacher's a nun or something :P Anyways, most likely its probably your class's fault. If there messing and not listening our taking there serious then its very hard for your teacher to move on and TEACH ye :O!! Religion is a lovely subject and many people get A's in it! (Me included

)

franciebellew wrote: »

Who the fu-ck is Jesus clone?

Oh lord :rolleyes:

spurious wrote: »

Outside an academic study or exam situation, it has no place in a school, imo.

Agreed, if a school should be multicultural, than it most certainly should not be focusing on a religion!

AtomicKoala · 30-01-2012 6:44pm

I think that two hours a week is ridiculous, that time could be used far better. I'd say put the relgious stuff in with CSPE, and make it mandatory to have two CSPE classes a week, and an extra Computer class. Just my opinion.

Also the religious education system is very much biased towards Catholicism - over half of any R.E. book is Catholic ethos Christianity in my experience. Our school never did exams mind, given we wasted two hours a week on Religion, I'd nearly prefer we had done it for the JC.

user43210 · 31-01-2012 6:29pm

You do not HAVE to do religion for the junior cert.
I didn't and was the only one in my school at the time. See this website for advice on getting out of it http://www.teachdontpreach.ie/

Julius Seizure · 31-01-2012 9:50pm

spurious wrote: »

Most Irish schools are owned by reigious orders or churches. Even VEC schools, which are not owned by them are obliged by law to give two hours of religion per week. It shows you how disgracefully under the heel of the church Irish governments have been and still are.

Im in a co-ed VEC school and we get 40 mins religion a week. Not that we actually take it for the Junior Cert. We just get study time instead

graeme157 · 31-01-2012 10:57pm

I'd go mental if my school made us sit the religion exam. We do all world religions and morality that were mentioned above but we don't have to actual learn anything.

We just spend religion class staring at our fit teacher!

31-01-2012 11:21pm

Usually a discussion between a parent and the principal will get you out of religion.

Anyway the subject is a doddle. I did absolutely did nothing last year religion and still got a C in higher. Did a good journal which boosted the mark.
I know some holy holy who studied his @ss of for religion and only got a B in higher. You should have seen him writing in the JC.

Every line was filled and his hand was falling off at the end of the exam

saa · 01-02-2012 12:08am

On one hand I think its good to education about relgious cultures as ignorance spawns hatred.

I remember my religion teacher telling us not to take it too seriously, this was jc 2003-5 we were studying other religions as well it wasn't about believing, maybe because of our teacher (she was just out of college it was great craic).

But then again I remember on some test there was questions about what jesus did in this parable or where he went, why did the good samaritin do this, I refused to memorise facts from the stories I thought it was so irrelevant.

Terri26 · 02-02-2012 1:16am

Deleted User wrote: »

Usually a discussion between a parent and the principal will get you out of religion.

Anyway the subject is a doddle. I did absolutely did nothing last year religion and still got a C in higher. Did a good journal which boosted the mark.
I know some holy holy who studied his @ss of for religion and only got a B in higher. You should have seen him writing in the JC. Every line was filled and his hand was falling off at the end of the exam

surely if it was a "doodle" you would have gotten higher than a C and that student you mentioned would have gotten an A.

The religion exam teaches and helps the learners to appreciate the different religious traditions in Ireland and worldwide. It also deals with secularism atheism etc.

02-02-2012 5:07pm

Terri26 wrote: »

surely if it was a "doodle" you would have gotten higher than a C and that student you mentioned would have gotten an A.

The religion exam teaches and helps the learners to appreciate the different religious traditions in Ireland and worldwide. It also deals with secularism atheism etc.

No, the point im making is is that you can do no work outside the classroom and very little inside the classroom and still get a C in higher level with just common sense.

Now, if you want an A, you going to have to do a load of work, learning off notes, a lot of exam papers, an excellent journal etc. etc.

You dont need religion as exam subject for 2 hours a week to learn what you mentioned above. You would nearly learn that much by having one relaxed and laid back religion class a week without the stess (or annoyance to most people :cool:) of an exam.
We asked our teacher one day why religion is an exam subject in our school for JC and she said the teachers decided it would be better doing and getting a mark rather than not getting a mark

The House Of Wolves · 05-02-2012 2:22pm

I feel your pain. We waste 3 classes on religion a week, time that could be put to better use. We have had 3 new teachers these past 3 years as well, so we've been messed about. First year, I hated it. It was focused so solely on Christianity I nearly went mental. I actually gave up on it and the teacher nearly ate my head. Then in second year we got a new teacher and suddenly, religion became fun. We studied Islam and made scrapbooks about it. We listening to the call to prayer on youtube and were meant to be going to a mosque. (Not happening now, though.) Then third year it was back to the (biased) book. We never used the book in second year and it was great. It's really a horrible book that degrades other religions as less-worthy. Our new teacher also believes it necessary to base everything from a Catholic perspective.

For example, for Q5 on the papers, everyone wanted to Islam. We all remember it without struggle, because it was fun. Our teacher tried his damn hardest to dissuade us all from it - during our Christmas tests, I had already started writing Q5 on Islam when he announced we were only to do that question on Taize, not anything else. Ridiculous!

Terri26 · 05-02-2012 7:01pm

That's a pity your teacher said that but in the actual exam they only section you have to use Christianity is Section B as it is the Christianity section. The only section you HAVE to use Islam is in Section C - the world religion question.
Perhaps though your teacher wants you to focus on certain areas to help you. For example you could also use Taize in Section A. The reason you did so much Christianity in first year is because of the way the course is designed. Most of it is history of Christianity and not Catholic doctrine as such.

What textbook are you using? A lot of them are top heavy in Christianity as it is easier to teach as most people have some knowledge of it.

AtomicKoala · 05-02-2012 7:26pm

Terri26 wrote: »

What textbook are you using? A lot of them are top heavy in Christianity as it is easier to teach as most people have some knowledge of it.

Ha. Is that really the excuse they use?

Terri26 · 05-02-2012 7:28pm

which "they" are you referring to?

if832uspx4eogt · 05-02-2012 7:34pm

Exploring Faith :mad: I'd love to shove it in the fire.

Terri26 · 05-02-2012 7:37pm

I don't know much about that one but decided against it a few years ago as it is a bit "wordy" and sometimes non qualified religion teachers get the exam classes. Although we don't use the textbook the revisewise religion book is quite good. Don't lose hope I know you may feel religion is a waste of time but I think it is a very important subject even just for the tolerance it teaches towards different faiths and those of no faith.
Did you do a good journal?

if832uspx4eogt · 05-02-2012 7:43pm

We haven't even started our journal yet! My religion teacher is such a nut job and just gives out all the time. I wouldn't waste my money on that, Id prefer to learn French verbs anyway (and I hate French)

Terri26 · 05-02-2012 7:45pm

fair enough if you consider it a waste no point really in trying to convince you otherwise.

if832uspx4eogt · 05-02-2012 7:47pm

Terri26 wrote: »

fair enough if you consider it a waste no point really in trying to convince you otherwise.

I just don't think I old old start revising the whole syllabus now. The book is so much bull****, I couldn't start reading through it again, I'll probably get a C without studying, "God is wonderful" will suffice for most questions :rolleyes:

Terri26 · 05-02-2012 7:50pm

if you are good at English you might indeed be able to scrap a C but you certainly won't just writing God is great! Good luck though

if832uspx4eogt · 05-02-2012 7:51pm

Yes I am alright at English, I'll pass it anyway.

AtomicKoala · 05-02-2012 7:52pm

Terri26 wrote: »

which "they" are you referring to?

The creators of the course, and their supporters.

Terri26 · 05-02-2012 7:56pm

The "creators of the course" have nothing to do with the textbooks.

AtomicKoala · 05-02-2012 8:01pm

Terri26 wrote: »

The "creators of the course" have nothing to do with the textbooks.

Ah sorry, I meant the textbooks, even. My apologies

MegGustaa · 11-02-2012 4:54pm

Junior Cert Religion is a joke. All it served to do was make me more sure of my atheism.

I got a 100% in my mock (and an A in the real thing) and I'm easily the most outspokenly-atheistic person in my class.

However, I'm a better informed atheist because of it. Just because I don't agree with religion or theism doesn't mean I shouldn't be educated about it, and be able to defend why I think religion is a bad thing.

My Religious Education was definitely very Christian-biased, and 2 hours a week in Senior Cycle (not even as an LC subject like) is also a bit annoying, when I only get 80 mins of Applied Maths, but I'm in a private, fee-paying Catholic school so I can hardly complain.

xfabgalx · 11-02-2012 9:51pm

kelijryan wrote: »

the religion that is usualy in the jc isnt just about catholics, its about all world religions and how they started and what their culture is it can be interesting at times

thats not true! we were told not to bother with that because we're all either christians or not religious. its so stupid. hate the subject. there was a scheduled class one or twice a week in my old school but we used to just do homework and that and its ridiculous now. my old school was apart of the same VEC!
just ask your parents to make you exempt no matter how stupid or nervous or different or whatever it may be. as long as the school isnt a religious school like loreto should be fine. Im gonna ask. I dont think Ill go in when the RE junior cert exam is on. pointless.

We always joke about stuff like: Just say it was what Jesus wants! And Jesus said so just say Jesus in every line and you'll be fine sure! Im a christian and I dont care about RE. We use that horrible book "KNOW THE WAY". So annoying.

ehshup · 15-02-2012 6:44pm

The subject religion means you study religion - a lot of people are making it out to be a sunday-school like class - that's not the point of the lesson. It doesn't matter whether you're a hardcore atheist or devout believer. The purpose is to learn about the origins and beliefs about different people around the world - whether this works as a class is a different question but in response to why you are made do it - it's definitely somthing which affects the world. If you read any frontpage news article about war, etc etc, i think you'll find out pretty quickly that knowing about religion helps - a basic knowledge of religion will help you understand things like the israeli-palestinian conflict, the shi'a sunni relations.

The fact you don't believe in a god doesn't diminish the value of knowledge which explains how so many conflicts have begun. Contrary to what you say, writing "God is wonderful" will not suffice - maybe your teacher is crazy, but the exam does not take into account where you stand with religion - it asks about the origins of religions - It doesn't claim Christianity is right and Islam is wrong or anything like that. It asks what do Christians/Muslims/Jews believe.

Being an athiest is irrelevant - it's like someone saying why do we have to learn Shakespeare plays for english, or about Mozart in music - maybe we don't like Shakespeare or are not fans of Mozart, however if we are to have an understanding of how literature or music developed, it is important to at least know about the existence of Shakespeare and Mozart - Likewise, even if one doesn't believe in a god, is it not still important to understand how islam, buddhism, judaism and christianity have evolved?

MegGustaa · 15-02-2012 7:31pm

ehshup wrote: »

The subject religion means you study religion - a lot of people are making it out to be a sunday-school like class - that's not the point of the lesson. It doesn't matter whether you're a hardcore atheist or devout believer. The purpose is to learn about the origins and beliefs about different people around the world - whether this works as a class is a different question but in response to why you are made do it - it's definitely somthing which affects the world. If you read any frontpage news article about war, etc etc, i think you'll find out pretty quickly that knowing about religion helps - a basic knowledge of religion will help you understand things like the israeli-palestinian conflict, the shi'a sunni relations.

The fact you don't believe in a god doesn't diminish the value of knowledge which explains how so many conflicts have begun. Contrary to what you say, writing "God is wonderful" will not suffice - maybe your teacher is crazy, but the exam does not take into account where you stand with religion - it asks about the origins of religions - It doesn't claim Christianity is right and Islam is wrong or anything like that. It asks what do Christians/Muslims/Jews believe.

Being an athiest is irrelevant - it's like someone saying why do we have to learn Shakespeare plays for english, or about Mozart in music - maybe we don't like Shakespeare or are not fans of Mozart, however if we are to have an understanding of how literature or music developed, it is important to at least know about the existence of Shakespeare and Mozart - Likewise, even if one doesn't believe in a god, is it not still important to understand how islam, buddhism, judaism and christianity have evolved?

I completely see where you're coming from - I appreciate fully the value of learning about all religions - however the curriculum and how it's being delivered don't actually do that.

You see, it's a very clever syllabus. There are 6 modules to it and you only have to do 5. Two of them deal specifically with Christianity, only 1 deals with World Religions in any great depth. We, of course, left out the world religions section - no surprise there - but even if we hadn't we'd still have had to do a deep study of Christianity. Ta-da.

Personally, I think the study of religion is fascinating. However I have never once learned about the conflict in the Middle East in an RE classroom, in my 5 years of compulsory RE. I've learned more about world religions from my English teacher (an atheist) than I have from any religion teacher.

Religious Education in this country is predictably biased towards Christianity - whether or not that's explicitly written in the syllabus is besides the point. It's like 'here's how other people do this, oh isn't that interesting, but really you should believe in our God if you know what's good for you'. Religious Education should be taught in a setting where one religion is not favoured over another, so honest and open learning and discussion can take place. A school with a Christian/Catholic ethos is hardly the place for it, and let's face it, most schools in this country are religious (and by that, I mean Christian) to some degree, fee paying or not.

I think Religious Ed should be replaced with secular philosophy classes (with no exam), but...this is Ireland, that's never going to happen.

ehshup · 15-02-2012 8:23pm

MegGustaa wrote: »

I completely see where you're coming from - I appreciate fully the value of learning about all religions - however the curriculum and how it's being delivered don't actually do that.

You see, it's a very clever syllabus. There are 6 modules to it and you only have to do 5. Two of them deal specifically with Christianity, only 1 deals with World Religions in any great depth. We, of course, left out the world religions section - no surprise there - but even if we hadn't we'd still have had to do a deep study of Christianity. Ta-da.

Personally, I think the study of religion is fascinating. However I have never once learned about the conflict in the Middle East in an RE classroom, in my 5 years of compulsory RE. I've learned more about world religions from my English teacher (an atheist) than I have from any religion teacher.

Religious Education in this country is predictably biased towards Christianity - whether or not that's explicitly written in the syllabus is besides the point. It's like 'here's how other people do this, oh isn't that interesting, but really you should believe in our God if you know what's good for you'. Religious Education should be taught in a setting where one religion is not favoured over another, so honest and open learning and discussion can take place. A school with a Christian/Catholic ethos is hardly the place for it, and let's face it, most schools in this country are religious (and by that, I mean Christian) to some degree, fee paying or not.

I think Religious Ed should be replaced with secular philosophy classes (with no exam), but...this is Ireland, that's never going to happen.

I agree with most of that, but the problem, I think, is then that individual religion teachers can try to turn the class into a brainwashing class of indoctrination. As for the bias towards learning about chrisianity, I don't think that's too bad, because (in my experience anyway) we learned about christianity from a historic point of view - how it developed, what it's starting ideas were etc etc - and to be honest, out of the world religions, christianity is the one which is most relevant to life in ireland which is (perhaps) why there is more of a bias towards it. A little bit like the way the history course focuses on European history - but anyway, yes, i'd agree that it'd be much better to make the world religion section compulsory and make one of the christianity ones optional - but I do think that if you look at the exam itself, its questions aren't biased.

At the same time, I understand what you mean - I think we may just have different experiences in education - in my school, there was almost no emphasis on christianity - we learnt about it in first year (approaching it almost from a foreign perspective so we understood it) , then in second year and third year we learned about Judaism and Islam, and I can speak for my class when I say that after we took the exam we all agreed we knew much more about Islam than Christianity. Also, it helped that the book we used didnt shove anything down our throats - as opposed to the most ridiculous religion textbook I saw recently where practically every single argument they used to say Jesus was God used absolute circular logic. They tried to prove that Jesus was definitely a miracle worker by saying it's "clearly true" as his miracles were of a "much higher calibre" than those of other apprent miracle workers at the time. Now if I constantly had that being taught to me, then I would agree, but personally I thought I learned a lot from junior cert religion (despite not being religious at all.)

Why Are We Forced To Do Religion For JC?

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