VRT for travelling spouse

afishyfish · 17-05-2010 7:18pm #1

Hey all,
I was hoping to get some advice.
My wife and I live seperately. I live in Dublin and she lives in Tyrone. We're not seperated but she works there and I work here. It's not ideal but we can't afford for either of us to give up our jobs. They're not easy to come by these days.
So for now, we live seperately and visit each other as often as we can.
Problem is, she was stopped by customs on her way to work early this morning after spending the weekend in Dublin. She was issued with a notice of 7 days to register her vehicle in the Republic. She was warned that failure to do so would result in the car being confiscated.
I've contacted the customs official who issued the notice, and gone down to the vro (vehicle registration office) in Santry to state our case. But it's like talking to robots. They just can't see the bigger picture and won't budge an inch from their narrow minded little ways.
You see, their legislation states that a person is resident if:

if your occupational ties were in a different country from your personal ties then the country of your personal ties is taken as your normal residence if you returned there regularly (i.e. for most of your non-working days).

By that logic, I should have to register my car in the North as I regularly visit on my days off work.

And if she were to register her car here; what happens when the northern Ireland customs department stops her and insists that the car is in the north 80%+ of the time, and is liable for northern Irish vrt?

Does she have to pay it twice.

Like I said, I tried explaining this but I may as well have been talking to a wall.

I've had a very stressful day arguing with people who can't be reasoned with. I have a splitting headache from it. I'm going to get legal advice tomorrow, but in the meantime; any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

rebel.ranter · 17-05-2010 7:21pm

Talk to your local TD. They are crap at running the country but great for sorting things like this out, passports, etc.
Has to be worth a shot if they won't listen to you.

afishyfish · 17-05-2010 7:40pm

Thanks. will do.
I'm going to talk to citizens advice bureau and a solicitor, so I'll add the TD to the list.
Thanks again.

ardmacha · 17-05-2010 7:53pm

Marriage comes with certain rights e.g. pooled taxation and certain obligations. You are assumed to have a marital home and this is your normal residence for this kind of thing. Any customs official will reasonably assume that a married couple, not separated, have a main residence of some sort where they spend weekends, Christmas etc. If she had simply not said that she was married but just spending the week in Dublin there would not have a problem at all.

I think calling them narrow minded is unreasonable, as they have to apply the legislation. If your martial residence is in NI, then you should both drive a NI car, if this is the ROI then you must both drive a ROI car. The other relevant matter is when she moved to Tyrone i.e. after your marriage, or if she always lived there.

And if she were to register her car here; what happens when the northern Ireland customs department stops her and insists that the car is in the north 80%+ of the time, and is liable for northern Irish vrt?

Since there is no VRT in NI and so no revenue to be gained they wouldn't bother. Even if they did take an interest the rules are the same, it is not the time so much as your normal residence.

demons · 17-05-2010 7:58pm

HI guys,

just to put in my two cents worth, maybe you're wife could carry some recent post in the car that is addressed to her NI address say any letters she recieved from the week previous and secondly I thought that there is/was a stipulation that you had to have the car out of the state (either ROI or NI) for 4 nights of the week in order not be liable to have the car lifted, anyways I might be right or wrong on the above. Also a lot prob depends on the individual customs officer that you were dealing with a the time.

afishyfish · 17-05-2010 9:11pm

Thanks guys. I appreciate all the advice.

The other relevant matter is when she moved to Tyrone i.e. after your marriage, or if she always lived there.

Ardmacha: I should have mentioned this; my wife is a UK citizen. She was born in the North and has never had residency in ROI. The car was purchased new in Omagh around 2005 and registered locally.

You are assumed to have a marital home and this is your normal residence for this kind of thing.

Don't mean to sound a smart arse but we're not all 2.4 children, semi-d in the suburbs, garden gnomes on the lawn model families. I have my home and she has hers (for now)
We spent last Christmas in Omagh, and plan to spend this Christmas in Dublin, so you tell me.... which is our marital home and normal residence
?

I live and work and pay rent, bills and taxes in the republic.
She does likewise in Northern Ireland.
So for these guys to tell her she has to pay vrt in the Republic because she visits occasionally, and threaten to confiscate her car.... we'll thats out of order.

Yawns · 17-05-2010 9:48pm

She lives in NI normally. She works there. She comes down for say the weekend usually?

Just explain this and tell them to pfo.

Gophur · 17-05-2010 9:53pm

She will have to prove she is domiciled in N Ireland and is a resident of the UK. She is obliged to register her car where she is resident.

Given the requisite proof, she should be in the clear.

Yawns · 17-05-2010 10:09pm

Gophur wrote: »

She will have to prove she is domiciled in N Ireland and is a resident of the UK. She is obliged to register her car where she is resident.

Given the requisite proof, she should be in the clear.

+1

If she gets a letter confirming that she is normally resident in the UK then she should carry it in the car for future checkpoints. It's unfortunate it but it's due to so many people not paying vrt on cars and living in ROI most / all the time

afishyfish · 17-05-2010 10:31pm

Yawns wrote: »

She lives in NI normally. She works there. She comes down for say the weekend usually?

Just explain this and tell them to pfo.

I tried that. May as well have been talkin to the wall.

She will have to prove she is domiciled in N Ireland and is a resident of the UK. She is obliged to register her car where she is resident.

Given the requisite proof, she should be in the clear.

Ah, but who do I go to with this proof?
Both the officer who issued the notice, and the woman in the vro are completely closed off to any reasoning. I explained the entire situation calmly and clearly but they just stuck to their guns. If she's married to me, she's a resident of the state. So it is written, so it shall be. The world is black and white. Grey just doesn't exist.

afishyfish · 17-05-2010 10:36pm

Yawns wrote: »

+1

If she gets a letter confirming that she is normally resident in the UK then she should carry it in the car for future checkpoints. It's unfortunate it but it's due to so many people not paying vrt on cars and living in ROI most / all the time

Even if I could get somebody down here to sit up and recognise such a letter,.... who would have to have written it on her side? Her parish priest? Local TD? Police representative? Maybe her boss (she's a primary school teacher and her boss is a school principal - a position that carries some level of public authority) though I can't see this holding any water with ROI customs officials.

Any suggestions on this?

ardmacha · 17-05-2010 10:42pm

Don't mean to sound a smart arse but we're not all 2.4 children, semi-d in the suburbs, garden gnomes on the lawn model families. I have my home and she has hers (for now)

The point is that marriage is a legal declaration of a joint identity, in some respects. Whether or not you avail of the legal advantages of that arrangement in regard to taxation etc, you take the entire package. You can't just say that although we got married, that it doesn't make any difference. Legally, it does.

Even if I could get somebody down here to sit up and recognise such a letter,.... who would have to have written it on her side? Her parish priest? Local TD? Police representative? Maybe her boss (she's a primary school teacher and her boss is a school principal - a position that carries some level of public authority) though I can't see this holding any water with ROI customs officials.

In a normal case you can get witnesses etc, the customs do what they like. But in this case these letters won't help, your strongest personal ties are to your spouse and you are here.

Ardmacha: I should have mentioned this; my wife is a UK citizen. She was born in the North and has never had residency in ROI.

First thing is that she won't have to pay VRT, she would be regarded as a transfer of residence. Whatever about the complications you could just rereg the car and you might have different living arrangements when it has to be replaced.

Failing that try the EU citizens office for advice.

Yawns · 17-05-2010 10:46pm

Get a letter from her employer and a member of the PSNI if she can. Make a copy of each. Show them at any future checkpoints and in the VRO office. Then hold onto a copy for yourself. Make a record of times & dates you presented this information to the VRO gardai etc. If she gets a summons to court show them the letters and records of attempts to deal with the matter.

She won't be in trouble, judge will strike it out. Then you complain to the VRO's clerks boss and the guards super if you wish. They will take out wrath on the clerk etc who will make sure they take notice of any future documents presented to them in this way.

But it shouldn't get that far once you have them letters.

best of luck

meathstevie · 17-05-2010 10:49pm

She works in Tyrone, she is normally resident in Tyrone and she pays her taxes in Tyrone. How can someone claim she is not resident in Tyrone ?

Talk to a solicitor, that's my two pence worth anyway. To make a long story short it'll all stand and fall with the determination of where she has her principal residence.

afishyfish · 17-05-2010 10:53pm

I understand the marriage arrangement. But you don't have a valid point.

Consider for a moment, if she lived and worked in england, and drove an english car in england.
Would she have to pay Irish vrt on that vehicle because she is married to an Irish resident??

There is no difference between these 2 scenarios.
She lives outside the state. It doesn't matter if it Northern Ireland or Outer Mongolia.

ardmacha · 17-05-2010 11:01pm

If she gets a summons to court show them the letters and records of attempts to deal with the matter.

Of course they'll have siezed the car long before this and you'll have to take a case to try and get it back.

if your occupational ties were in a different country from your personal ties then the country of your personal ties is taken as your normal residence if you returned there regularly (i.e. for most of your non-working days).

I understand the marriage arrangement. But you don't have a valid point.

I have a point in that that is the rule, whatever you think of it. A continuing marriage is regarded as the pre-eminent personal tie.

If it was the other way around everyone here would support somebody having the NI car.

afishyfish · 17-05-2010 11:02pm

Yawns wrote: »

Get a letter from her employer and a member of the PSNI if she can. Make a copy of each. Show them at any future checkpoints and in the VRO office. Then hold onto a copy for yourself. Make a record of times & dates you presented this information to the VRO gardai etc. If she gets a summons to court show them the letters and records of attempts to deal with the matter.

She won't be in trouble, judge will strike it out. Then you complain to the VRO's clerks boss and the guards super if you wish. They will take out wrath on the clerk etc who will make sure they take notice of any future documents presented to them in this way.

But it shouldn't get that far once you have them letters.

best of luck

Thanks Yawns. Good Advice.
The boss won't be a problem. But the PSNI and green side of the population are still very seperate entities. She wouldn't know a single one on a personal level. We can but try.
Thanks again.
I'm off to bed now. Still have that headache.
Thanks to all for your advice. I'll check this thread again in the morning.

meathstevie · 17-05-2010 11:02pm

demons wrote: »

HI guys,

just to put in my two cents worth, maybe you're wife could carry some recent post in the car that is addressed to her NI address say any letters she recieved from the week previous and secondly I thought that there is/was a stipulation that you had to have the car out of the state (either ROI or NI) for 4 nights of the week in order not be liable to have the car lifted, anyways I might be right or wrong on the above. Also a lot prob depends on the individual customs officer that you were dealing with a the time.

Why should she ? The EU treaties say EU citizens can travel to and from another EU country as they please and there's no law anywhere on the island of Ireland saying that married people must live at the same location while they're married. The only issue here is where the lady in question has her principal residence and that appears by all means to be Omagh, County Tyrone, where no such thing as VRT exists.

murraymarmalade · 17-05-2010 11:06pm

Are you a member of the irish drivers association? i would encourage any motorist(frankly i dont know why everybody isnt a member) to join,you will get the correct advice from them along with other literature outling you constituational rights regarding your rights as a motorist.:)

best wishes.

ardmacha · 17-05-2010 11:10pm

The EU treaties say EU citizens can travel to and from another EU country as they please

These laws are designed to facilitate people working in other countries, so a person who goes to another EU State can keep their car and still be regarded as living with their family. It breaks down if people want not to be considered to live with their family to get a cheaper car.

afishyfish · 17-05-2010 11:17pm

ardmacha wrote: »

if your occupational ties were in a different country from your personal ties then the country of your personal ties is taken as your normal residence if you returned there regularly (i.e. for most of your non-working days).

I have a point in that that is the rule, whatever you think of it. A continuing marriage is regarded as the pre-eminent personal tie.

If she lived here, you'd have a point. Even if she commuted accross the border on a daily basis I would conceed vrt would have to be paid.
But she doesn't live here or commute. She lives in Omagh. Outside the state. Her family home is not my family home. Sorry to break the mould, but that's our reality.
For you to argue with me only proves that you are as narrow minded as the civil servants who lack the wit of common sense.
Just because it's a rule, doesn't mean it's right.

If it was the other way around everyone here would support somebody having the NI car.

Do you really think so?
Would you get married to avoid paying vrt?

jimmycrackcorm · 17-05-2010 11:30pm

OP, did she not have a Northern Ireland driving licence otherwise how did they know whether or not she was a northern resident or not?

ardmacha · 17-05-2010 11:31pm

If she lived here, you'd have a point. Even if she commuted accross the border on a daily basis I would conceed vrt would have to be paid.

VRT doesn't have to be paid, you are only arguing about the principle and €20 for the number plates.

For you to argue with me only proves that you are as narrow minded

I don't see why my offering information in this thread gives you the right to call me narrow minded. I am simply stating the law as I understand it, I didn't write it.

Would you get married to avoid paying vrt?

I am sure people have. I wouldn't personally, as marriage is something to be taken seriously. I'd probably get a different job so as to live with my wife though.

murraymarmalade · 17-05-2010 11:31pm

afishyfish wrote: »

If she lived here, you'd have a point. Even if she commuted accross the border on a daily basis I would conceed vrt would have to be paid.
But she doesn't live here or commute. She lives in Omagh. Outside the state. Her family home is not my family home. Sorry to break the mould, but that's our reality.
For you to argue with me only proves that you are as narrow minded as the civil servants who lack the wit of common sense.
Just because it's a rule, doesn't mean it's right.

Do you really think so?
Would you get married to avoid paying vrt?

some of the responses here are just absurd.....you have every sympathy from me having to read some of the responses,

get your head down for the night and tackle this tomorrow with a fresh head.

GL

afishyfish · 18-05-2010 7:48am

You're right murray. I was a bit tired and emotional last night.
But I had just spent the whole day listening to people telling me how my life must be and should be because that's how they see it.
Fact of the matter is, she spends 1-2 days per week down here. (as much as I do up there).
If that makes her a resident of the republic well then surely I'm entitled to a vrt rebate, because that would make me a uk resident.
That ard fella is right in that he's stating the law as interpreted by the customs officials.
But my arguement is that, in this case, the law needs to be ammended as it doesn't take into account people in our situation.
Exemptions to the rule book for people in unusual circumstances are made all the time. My question is; how do I go about it?
I have written to several TD's, and I'm going to get legal advice today.
Ard, unless you can provide some practial advice, and not quote legislation, please save yourself the bother.

Addition:

VRT doesn't have to be paid, you are only arguing about the principle and €20 for the number plates.

I know the transfer would be free. But then she would be obliged to tax it, insure it & and put it through the nct here. Ireland is an expensive place to own a car. Since she's doesn't live here, and earns her salary in the comparatively lower paid north of Ireland, she should not be subjected to these over inflated charges.

18-05-2010 9:55am

This is really absurd. I'd say your wife would get in trouble in North being a UK citizen and resident there and driving a southern registered car.

Good luck, hope you'll get the situation done and dusted.

Gophur · 18-05-2010 10:07am

If you are resident in the Republic of Ireland for more than 183 days in any 365 day period, you are deemed resident. VRT is payable on residency.

The idea of collating the information/documentation, along with the PSNI certification, is a good one. Get this documentation and call to a Garda Station, requesting a meeting with a high-ranking officer.

Get his certification that everything is in order, and carry this with you in your car.

peasant · 18-05-2010 10:09am

afishyfish

I'd try talking to these people:
http://www.finance.gov.ie/ViewDoc.asp?fn=/documents/publications/other/ombusman.htm&CatID=66&m=m

trackcar · 18-05-2010 10:34am

VRT Manual section 2 (Relief & Exemptions)

.

2.2.3.4 Persons employed Outside the State but who return Home at Weekends

48
Vehicle Registration Tax

The exemption granted here differs from that granted in all other areas of temporary exemption in that it is granted [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]on a concessionary basis only [/FONT][/FONT]and is not supported by legislation. Notwithstanding, a person falling into this category may bring into, and use in, the State a qualifying vehicle49 provided:

[FONT=Wingdings,Wingdings][FONT=Wingdings,Wingdings]&#56256;&#56456; [/FONT][/FONT]the person concerned spends at least four nights per week outside the State on business (occupational ties);
[FONT=Wingdings,Wingdings][FONT=Wingdings,Wingdings]&#56256;&#56456; [/FONT][/FONT]his/her personal ties remain within the State at all times;

Application for exemption should be addressed to the HEO at the SCD office nearest to where the applicant resides in the State50. In considering the application the HEO should ensure that the applicant and the vehicle meet the specified eligibility criteria and that satisfactory supporting documentation is produced. S/he should also advise the relevant SCD of the application details, whether granted or not. Where approval is granted a copy of the letter of approval should be sent to the VRT Exemptions Section.

keithclancy · 18-05-2010 10:43am

meathstevie wrote: »

Why should she ? The EU treaties say EU citizens can travel to and from another EU country as they please and there's no law anywhere on the island of Ireland saying that married people must live at the same location while they're married. The only issue here is where the lady in question has her principal residence and that appears by all means to be Omagh, County Tyrone, where no such thing as VRT exists.

Partially true but mostly wrong:

http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/taxation/personal_tax/crossborder_workers/index_en.htm

In the field of taxation there exist no rules at Community level regarding the definition of cross-border workers, the division of taxing rights between Member States or the tax rules to be applied.

Basically Tax is out the Window with it comes to the EU.

I mailed the Solvit Office about a similar situation (Me living and working in Germany and my missus living in the Netherlands and visiting her on the weekends)

Dear Mr Clancy,
We would like to inform you that taxation is one of the policy areas that is not regulated by the EU. There is little Community legislation, or harmonisation of national fiscal provisions, applied by the Member States in the area of passenger car taxation. Please follow the link for more information:
http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/taxation/other_taxes/passenger_car/index_en.htm
So there does not seem to be an EU crossborder solution to solve your problem.
Maybe it would be an idea to inform your employer about this taxation problem. Maybe he could somehow refund the paid BPM taxes or he can pay them directly.

Kind regards
CSS

Basically you have no EU rights when it comes to Tax, its all down to individual tax treaties.

Just go into the VRT office with copies proving where her normal domicile + place of work is and keep copies in the car in future.

Also you cannot drive her car as an Irish resident, if you did, it could be seized and VRT would be payable.

Same for a Irish person living in Germany with an Irish G/F living in the Netherlands I'm afraid

Basically it was the same for me, Made sure i had a rake of documentation in the car for Bank account, rental agreement, city hall registration, recent bills etc. Wasn't a big deal, just used the car as a filing cabinet.

18-05-2010 10:57am

ardmacha wrote: »

VRT doesn't have to be paid, you are only arguing about the principle and €20 for the number plates.

But she wouldnt get the VRT exemption. All people think off when talking about the exemption is proving they lived outside Ireland, but having gone through it they are equally as interested in proof that you are going to be moving back to Ireland. I had to show my p45 from the UK and my contract for the job I was starting in Ireland as proof I was moving back here.

The op's wife cannot satisfy this condition and therefore imo is definitely not liable for VRT.

Even without the above example the woman is living outside the state, working outside the state, paying taxes outside the state and visits Ireland for a day or two per week. Anyone thinking the above means she is a resident of the state is deluded.

Also OP, if she doesn't already have one tell her to get a UK licence. Its easy to change over and with a UK licence and up to date UK tax it will get her through 99% of checkpoints.

afishyfish · 18-05-2010 2:14pm

trackcar wrote: »

VRT Manual section 2 (Relief & Exemptions)

.

2.2.3.4 Persons employed Outside the State but who return Home at Weekends

48
Vehicle Registration Tax
The exemption granted here differs from that granted in all other areas of temporary exemption in that it is granted [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]on a concessionary basis only [/FONT][/FONT]and is not supported by legislation. Notwithstanding, a person falling into this category may bring into, and use in, the State a qualifying vehicle49 provided:
[FONT=Wingdings,Wingdings][FONT=Wingdings,Wingdings]�� [/FONT][/FONT]the person concerned spends at least four nights per week outside the State on business (occupational ties);
[FONT=Wingdings,Wingdings][FONT=Wingdings,Wingdings]�� [/FONT][/FONT]his/her personal ties remain within the State at all times;
Application for exemption should be addressed to the HEO at the SCD office nearest to where the applicant resides in the State50. In considering the application the HEO should ensure that the applicant and the vehicle meet the specified eligibility criteria and that satisfactory supporting documentation is produced. S/he should also advise the relevant SCD of the application details, whether granted or not. Where approval is granted a copy of the letter of approval should be sent to the VRT Exemptions Section.

Thanks Trackcar. I'm following up on this. Have the letter of appeal written already.

Sean O · 30-05-2010 12:21pm

Do you have children?
When did you get married?
When did she start her employment in NI?
What is your tax credit situation regarding marriage?
How often would she travel to the family home?

afishyfish · 30-05-2010 5:43pm

Do you have children? No
When did you get married? 2009
When did she start her employment in NI? 2004/2005
What is your tax credit situation regarding marriage? I am not currently employed. I don't believe tax creditrs come into the equation.
How often would she travel to the family home? By family home I assume you mean Dublin. 2/3 nights per week.

Sean O · 31-05-2010 1:42pm

afishyfish wrote: »

Do you have children? No
When did you get married? 2009
When did she start her employment in NI? 2004/2005
What is your tax credit situation regarding marriage? I am not currently employed. I don't believe tax creditrs come into the equation.
How often would she travel to the family home? By family home I assume you mean Dublin. 2/3 nights per week.

It would appear that the Customs and the staff in Santry Vehicle Registration Office are 100% correct in their actions. As a State resident your wife is not permitted to drive a non State registered vehicle under any circumstances. Your wife might be entitled to an exemption from paying VRT under the Transfer of Residence provisions if she fulfils the qualifying criteria. She needs to complete a C&E 1077 and produce the necessary supporting documents to the VRO in Santry if she is resident in north Dublin, or Tallaght if she is resident in south Dublin. The form C&E 1077 can be downloaded from the Revenue website at Revenue.ie.

peasant · 31-05-2010 1:56pm

Sean O wrote: »

As a State resident

I still fail to see/understand how visiting the Republic 2-3 nights a week could make a citizen of another country who works, lives, pays taxes and was born in said country into a "resident" in the Republic.

I further fail to understand why the authorities of said foreign country should be ok with suddenly being deprived of the car tax for a car that spends the majority of time in their country just because some other country insists on registering it there.

Shane732 · 31-05-2010 1:58pm

ardmacha wrote: »

Marriage comes with certain rights e.g. pooled taxation and certain obligations. You are assumed to have a marital home and this is your normal residence for this kind of thing. Any customs official will reasonably assume that a married couple, not separated, have a main residence of some sort where they spend weekends, Christmas etc. If she had simply not said that she was married but just spending the week in Dublin there would not have a problem at all.

I think calling them narrow minded is unreasonable, as they have to apply the legislation. If your martial residence is in NI, then you should both drive a NI car, if this is the ROI then you must both drive a ROI car. The other relevant matter is when she moved to Tyrone i.e. after your marriage, or if she always lived there.

Since there is no VRT in NI and so no revenue to be gained they wouldn't bother. Even if they did take an interest the rules are the same, it is not the time so much as your normal residence.

Sorry but what??

If the martial residence is in NI then I don't have to pay Irish VRT sweet!!! So I marry a Northern Irish women (I love the accents anyway so I'm sorted!) and we have our martial home in the North and I'll never have to pay VRT???

yawn..... :rolleyes:

Gophur · 31-05-2010 2:16pm

Sean O wrote: »

It would appear that the Customs and the staff in Santry Vehicle Registration Office are 100% correct in their actions. As a State resident your wife is not permitted to drive a non State registered vehicle under any circumstances. ................

I would respectfully suggest you check the definition of resident before offering such false advice.

To be resident one must spend 183 days in the State over a 365 day period. 2-3 days per week does not equal 183 days in any year.

The lady in question is a resident of N Ireland and not the Republic.

Unfortunately, for her, she has some bureaucratic nonsense to prove this, (all the while the country is littered with obvious non-compliance of the same rule.)

bog master · 31-05-2010 2:34pm

afishyfish wrote: »

Do you have children? No
When did you get married? 2009
When did she start her employment in NI? 2004/2005
What is your tax credit situation regarding marriage? I am not currently employed. I don't believe tax creditrs come into the equation.
How often would she travel to the family home? By family home I assume you mean Dublin. 2/3 nights per week.

Bit confused here afishyfish! In your opening post you say the following:

"Hey all,
I was hoping to get some advice.
My wife and I live seperately. I live in Dublin and she lives in Tyrone. We're not seperated but she works there and I work here. It's not ideal but we can't afford for either of us to give up our jobs. They're not easy to come by these days."

And in the above reply, you say you are not working?

31-05-2010 2:41pm

Sean O wrote: »

It would appear that the Customs and the staff in Santry Vehicle Registration Office are 100% correct in their actions. As a State resident your wife is not permitted to drive a non State registered vehicle under any circumstances. Your wife might be entitled to an exemption from paying VRT under the Transfer of Residence provisions if she fulfils the qualifying criteria. She needs to complete a C&E 1077 and produce the necessary supporting documents to the VRO in Santry if she is resident in north Dublin, or Tallaght if she is resident in south Dublin. The form C&E 1077 can be downloaded from the Revenue website at Revenue.ie.

If you read my post above you will see that she does not qualify for a transfer of residence as she is working and paying tax in NI. You must be moving to permeability live and work in the state.

If she does not qualify for a transfer of residence she is obviously non-resident so she does not have to pay VRT.

Also who is to say the marital home is the Dublin residence and not the NI one and as peasant pointed out what do you suggest she tells the NI authorities when they ask her why she is driving an Irish registered car in NI while she is living there.

Anyone trying to say she has to pay VRT is not actually thinking about the situation atall imo.

There are people in much less clear cut situations than the op's wife easily availing of the resident <185 days rule to avoid paying vrt.

Yawns · 31-05-2010 2:41pm

he's porb working a bit on the side or w/e

His job doesn't matter either way.

His wife was born and still lives in NI full time. End of story. No VRT to pay. If someone you knew came over to visit it you from England for a few weekends a year should they suddenly start paying VRT and taxing their cars over here?

His wife comes down from the North on weekends. She spends 4 to 5 nights a week in her own home in the North. All she needs is to prove she works and lives in the North. Letter from employer and landlord will be enough. A UK licence would also get you through the checkpoints. Bring the letters to the VRO and speak to a supervisor and inform them.

Tea 1000 · 31-05-2010 5:15pm

Why not arrange it so that the family home is in Tyrone? You just own a house in Dublin to facilitate your work. Show letters addressed to both of ye in the North. Has she a UK license? Is the car taxed in NI?
Ye could say the Dublin home is a holiday home.

ardmacha · 31-05-2010 7:43pm

I would respectfully suggest you check the definition of resident before offering such false advice.

Good point.

To be resident one must spend 183 days in the State over a 365 day period. 2-3 days per week does not equal 183 days in any year.

Then you go on to offer incomplete advice. You might spend 200 days out of the State but still be normally resident here.

If someone you knew came over to visit it you from England for a few weekends a year should they suddenly start paying VRT and taxing their cars over here?

No problem at all, unless they marry you. If they do, they simplest thing is not to mention this at checkpoints.

The OP should be successful under the 2.2.3.4 clause above, good luck with that.

opinion guy · 31-05-2010 8:14pm

peasant wrote: »

I still fail to see/understand how visiting the Republic 2-3 nights a week could make a citizen of another country who works, lives, pays taxes and was born in said country into a "resident" in the Republic.

I further fail to understand why the authorities of said foreign country should be ok with suddenly being deprived of the car tax for a car that spends the majority of time in their country just because some other country insists on registering it there.

This. Its almost like the VRO are attempting to abduct your wife from her home country. She should report them to the PSNI :P

Esel · 01-06-2010 1:04am

Sean O wrote: »

..blah blah blah....She needs to complete a C&E 1077 and produce the necessary supporting documents to the VRO in Santry if she is resident in north Dublin, or Tallaght if she is resident in south Dublin.

Which VRO do you 'work' in then?

DubTony · 01-06-2010 1:19am

I've read through this and am as confused as a customs official. If a person driving a NI car produces a NI (UK) driver's licence they usually sail through customs checks.

Is her licence a UK or Rep. of Ireland one? As far as I can see, this question hasn't been answered and could be the simplest explanation of all.

Is it possible that the customs guys have seen her more often than they believe is acceptable. For example, if she's seen travelling to and from Tyrone 3 times a week (let's say Monday, Wednesday and Thursday) it sure looks like she lives here and works there (or vice versa). I can't understand why she's been targeted if she has a UK licence and only visits at weekends.

Very strange.

Sean O · 01-06-2010 10:45am

The lady in question is a State resident. No amount of obfuscation can alter that fact. The vehicle in question is liable to seizure. Offering ill-informed opinions will not alter the legality of the situation.

Sean O · 01-06-2010 10:48am

The licence a person holds does not alter his/her residential status.

peasant · 01-06-2010 10:53am

Sean O wrote: »

The lady in question is a State resident.

No, the lady is married to a state resident.
That does not automatically make her a resident herself.

This is a special case and no amount of arguing on the internet is going to solve it.

The OP and his wife need to sit down with the VRT people and explain their situation and someone with a bit of brain between their ears needs to look beyond the ambiguous letter of the law and apply some common sense.

keithclancy · 01-06-2010 10:57am

Hah ... you think you have it bad in Ireland ...

Checkout where you can change country by moving your front door

http://www.flanderstoday.eu/content/borderline-insane

Having to pay BPM (VRT) when the guy living next door doesn't.

Or living in the Netherlands, Surrounded by Belgium, which is surrounded by the Netherlands.

Also be sure to check out crazy map
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=baarle-nassau&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=30.268266,56.513672&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Baarle-Nassau,+North+Brabant,+The+Netherlands&ll=51.448257,4.928495&spn=0.002902,0.006899&z=17

Gophur · 01-06-2010 11:46am

ardmacha wrote: »

Good point.

Then you go on to offer incomplete advice. You might spend 200 days out of the State but still be normally resident here.

...................

Hey, I was off, by a whole 2 days.

From revenue.ie

3. What is meant by "State resident" and "non-resident"?

A "State resident" is a person whose normal residence is in the Republic of Ireland and a "non-resident" is anyone whose normal residence is outside the State. "Normal residence " means the place where a person usually lives (for at least 185 days each year) because of personal or occupational ties.

If a person's occupational ties are in a different country from his/her personal ties, then the country of personal ties is taken as the normal residence provided the person returns there regularly.

A person who is normally resident in the State but who lives outside the State primarily for the purpose of attending a school or university is regarded as a State resident.

Where did your 200 days come from?

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vrt/leaflets/vrt2.html

VRT for travelling spouse

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