Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12-Jan 2012 onwards

K-9 · 04-03-2012 11:48pm

missingtime wrote: »

@JenChang88: Fletcher at £12M-£15M+ price Wolves wanted was overpriced, but with relegation, good value around £8M. Wouldn't surprise to see him in red.

I think he's decent, needs good corners and good wingers so..................a NO. Unless we want a Carroll/Fletcher partnership.

willmunny1990 wrote: »

The Cup defiantly bought King Kenny more time IMO.

Serious questions would have to be asked if ye didn't win that, i know ye stumbled to the victory but a win is a win.

Only a point and two goals better off than last year...Anyone bar King Kenny would be scrutinized by the Liverpool faithful.

King Kenny isn't the man to take the pool any further IMO, he's a dinosaur who's out of tune with the modern game.

King Kenny is a hero to the pool fans but he wont ever get Liverpool challenging for major honors, i also doubt he'd ever be capable of getting ye a top four finish.

A dinosaur, considering his record against Chelsea...........

Was actually going to reply seriously but its a Chelsea fan giving advice on managers, the last thing we want.

Basically heed the advice, do the opposite.

ShamoBuc · 04-03-2012 11:54pm

K-9 wrote: »

Was actually going to reply seriously but its a Chelsea fan giving advice on managers, the last thing we want.

Basically heed the advice, do the opposite.

I had a good cuckle at that!

Glico Man · 04-03-2012 11:55pm

missingtime wrote: »

@JenChang88: Fletcher at £12M-£15M+ price Wolves wanted was overpriced, but with relegation, good value around £8M. Wouldn't surprise to see him in red.

Good grief... is this the level of player we're looking at to push on? We'll be in the same situation next year if thats the case. The club really needs to take a look at itself if signing average British players continues to be the modus operandi in transfer windows. We're already overstocked on them at this stage.

mike65 · 05-03-2012 12:21am

Have to disagree about dissing Fletcher as I said earlier today he is what Carroll should be, a scruffy goal scorer. Every team needs one and Dirk Kuyt won't be here forever! 8 million would be a good buy just have to find a buyer for Andy. Matt Jarvis likewise, assists and goals from out wide.

missingtime · 05-03-2012 12:38am

aaronh007 wrote: »

Good grief... is this the level of player we're looking at to push on? We'll be in the same situation next year if thats the case. The club really needs to take a look at itself if signing average British players continues to be the modus operandi in transfer windows. We're already overstocked on them at this stage.

Eh, I know it aint sexy but I given up all hope of us signing an aguero or mata or silva...

God damit I was so gutted when City signed Aguero. What kinda of bezzie is Maxi eh!!!!

Kess73 · 05-03-2012 12:44am

mike65 wrote: »

Have to disagree about dissing Fletcher as I said earlier today he is what Carroll should be, a scruffy goal scorer. Every team needs one and Dirk Kuyt won't be here forever! 8 million would be a good buy just have to find a buyer for Andy. Matt Jarvis likewise, assists and goals from out wide.

Almost depressing to see someone say that the player that Andy Carroll should be, would be a good buy at £8m.:(

It is almost like saying the club spent £35m on a player that looked like he could be as good as Fletcher.

mike65 · 05-03-2012 12:48am

When I made the earlier mention of Fletcher it prompted me to think back to Carrolls signing and just why the fvck it happened and no still I can't see what prompted the rush to spend the Torres cheque.

Glico Man · 05-03-2012 1:05am

missingtime wrote: »

Eh, I know it aint sexy but I given up all hope of us signing an aguero or mata or silva...

God damit I was so gutted when City signed Aguero. What kinda of bezzie is Maxi eh!!!!

There is a chasm in quality between Fletcher and an Aguero. There is also a number of better options than Fletcher without having to resort to a £30/40 million player that would be out of our reach at the moment.

CSF · 05-03-2012 1:17am

mixednuts wrote: »

And ? .. Your point

Point is simple. With Gerrard, Liverpool would have been much less likely to lose that game. Talking about how better things were without Gerrard in a game you lost at home makes no sense.

argosy2006 · 05-03-2012 1:20am

That's kinda funny,! Considering i see two hands above his :P

Glico Man · 05-03-2012 1:28am

CSF wrote: »

Point is simple. With Gerrard, Liverpool would have been much less likely to lose that game. Talking about how better things were without Gerrard in a game you lost at home makes no sense.

We've not won with Gerrard in the team in the 6 games he's started since his comeback from injury. No doubt he would've made more use of the ball than Adam, but I don't think he'd have added much. Even his finishing has been exceptionally poor this year.

Gbear · 05-03-2012 1:33am

aaronh007 wrote: »

We've not won with Gerrard in the team in the 6 games he's started since his comeback from injury. No doubt he would've made more use of the ball than Adam, but I don't think he'd have added much. Even his finishing has been exceptionally poor this year.

His long range shooting has been hot garbage, sure, but has he had much finishing to do? I remember one beauty against Newcastle but not many other chances from inside the box.

On fletcher, a perfect backup signing if the 35m quid spent on Carroll had been spent on a 35m quid player (or spending a bit less but making the difference up in a higher wage).
Having good local players happy to be at a big club, happy to not play all the time but being of decent quality is important. For that to be relevant you need superstars keeping them out of the team.:(

jank · 05-03-2012 2:07am

K-9 wrote: »

We've still the best run in of all the top 7 but 4th just aint going to happen and I don't think anybody, including the team or management believe so.

Que?

K-9 · 05-03-2012 4:12am

jank wrote: »

Que?

Premier League site has all the fixtures. Copyright and all that.

Do outline any relevant issues.

Cartman78 · 05-03-2012 10:34am

Pretty sickening result at the weekend - what made it worse that Arsenal were pretty poor as well.

2 well taken but very soft goals were the only difference. Btw - did anyone else think Reina could have done a lot better with the second goal? Seemed to be rooted to the line - if he'd advanced a yard or two it would have given Van Persie a very small area to aim at. Anyway, random potential goalkeeping mistakes are the least of our problems at the moment.

- Our lack of potency from set pieces is astonishing at this stage - that amount of missed penalties, shanked free-kicks and wasted corners is beyond the realms of bad luck.

- As ever, our inability to take relatively easy chances cost us dear. Kelly and Suarez were the obvious culprits against Arsenal. Again, I would say that the level of profligacy in front of goal this season is beyond bad luck. The lack of confidence in front of goal is running deep throughout the entire team.

- Adam and Spearing are nowhere near good enough for the level that LFC is aspiring to. In fairness to both of them, I think they are playing to the maximum of their potential but it's just not good enough. Talk of us signing more players from relegation fodder teams like Wolves fills me with dread.

- Suarez looks to be losing interest. Wouldn't be surprised to see him go in the summer. Leaving the controversy, bans etc. to one side, he's been pretty poor on the pitch for us this season.

- The game was crying out for a substitute from 60 mins on ; can't understand why Kenny waited until injury time to make a change.

It's hard to know where this team is going at this stage - are we just a couple of signings and a decent striker away from being very good? or are we on a downward spiral with a team packed with ageing and mediocre players?

Leiva · 05-03-2012 10:39am

Cartman78 wrote: »

Pretty sickening result at the weekend - what made it worse that Arsenal were pretty poor as well.

2 well taken but very soft goals were the only difference. Btw - did anyone else think Reina could have done a lot better with the second goal? Seemed to be rooted to the line - if he'd advanced a yard or two it would have given Van Persie a very small area to aim at. Anyway, random potential goalkeeping mistakes are the least of our problems at the moment.

- Our lack of potency from set pieces is astonishing at this stage - that amount of missed penalties, shanked free-kicks and wasted corners is beyond the realms of bad luck.

- As ever, our inability to take relatively easy chances cost us dear. Kelly and Suarez were the obvious culprits against Arsenal. Again, I would say that the level of profligacy in front of goal this season is beyond bad luck. The lack of confidence in front of goal is running deep throughout the entire team.

- Adam and Spearing are nowhere near good enough for the level that LFC is aspiring to. In fairness to both of them, I think they are playing to the maximum of their potential but it's just not good enough. Talk of us signing more players from relegation fodder teams like Wolves fills me with dread.

- Suarez looks to be losing interest. Wouldn't be surprised to see him go in the summer. Leaving the controversy, bans etc. to one side, he's been pretty poor on the pitch for us this season.

- The game was crying out for a substitute from 60 mins on ; can't understand why Kenny waited until injury time to make a change.

It's hard to know where this team is going at this stage - are we just a couple of signings and a decent striker away from being very good? or are we on a downward spiral with a team packed with ageing and mediocre players?

I agree with all your points .

On the last paragraph;I would like to see a marquee striker added to our current squad and then see how we/Kenny gets on .

kippy · 05-03-2012 10:49am

mixednuts wrote: »

I agree with all your points .

On the last paragraph;I would like to see a marquee striker added to our current squad and then see how we/Kenny gets on .

Wasn't Carroll meant to be the "marguee striker"?

Anyone · 05-03-2012 10:52am

kippy wrote: »

Wasn't Carroll meant to be the "marguee striker"?

And Suarez. Its not like we are not creating chances, we just cant score. The report after the Carling Cup final showed we had 39 attempts at goal, and we scored 2. Its a joke at this stage.

kevohmsford · 05-03-2012 10:53am

I was just thinking this morning what Damien Camolli's function at the club is. I know he is director of football but I thought he would be saving us money in the transfer market by unearthing some hidden talent from mainland Europe. Sebastian Coates is the only player that has come in that I did not know a whole lot about before he signed.
We have stooped pretty low hoping we can sign the likes of Steven Fletcher in the summer.

spockety · 05-03-2012 10:56am

kippy wrote: »

Wasn't Carroll meant to be the "marguee striker"?

No, who ever said that?

Carroll was the "****, we need to get a bloody striker in in the next couple of days as we've just lost Torres" striker.

I'd sooner lose Carroll and Adam (I'd keep Henderson and Downing for the squad) and give Dalglish another transfer window with invested funds, than lose Dalglish.

There really are some nutty things being said at the moment.

He brought us our first silverware in 6 years. If I lived in the same black and white world of football that some of you seem to live in, it would drive me ****ing spare.

Chucky the tree · 05-03-2012 10:57am

Cartman78 wrote: »

or are we on a downward spiral with a team packed with ageing and mediocre players?

I wouldn't agree with the aging. Our best players are Lucas(25), Skretl(27), Reina(29), Suarez(25). I might as well get it out of the way now but it's time to move on from Agger. We should try and sell him in the summer if we can and even if we don't another centre back is now a huge priority. Bellamy and Gerrard are the our two best aging players and tbh Gerrard has dropped down the list of important players/players who'd be first on the team sheet at this stage. We do have a bit to much mediocrity though - Downing, Adam and Carroll should be no where near a starting 11 for a side with top 4 side ambitions. However we have some decent players up and coming and solid squad members - Henderson, Spearing, Kelly and a lot of younger players who have potential.

spockety wrote: »

No, who ever said that?

Carroll was the "****, we need to get a bloody striker in in the next couple of days as we've just lost Torres" striker.

So lets spend £35m on a player who's injured and who we have no idea when he will be fight. Great Logic there. That's before even getting into the fact he's not very good in the first place :pac:

Cartman78 · 05-03-2012 11:05am

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I wouldn't agree with the aging. Our best players are Lucas(25), Skretl(27), Reina(29), Suarez(25). I might as well get it out of the way now but it's time to move on from Agger. We should try and sell him in the summer if we can and even if we don't another centre back is now a huge priority. Bellamy and Gerrard are the our two best aging players and tbh Gerrard has dropped down the list of important players/players who'd be first on the team sheet at this stage. We do have a bit to much mediocrity though - Downing, Adam and Carroll should be no where near a starting 11 for a side with top 4 side ambitions. However we have some decent players up and coming and solid squad members - Henderson, Spearing, Kelly and a lot of younger players who have potential.

Ok..the aging thing might have been a bit harsh i guess.... I was referring mainly to Carra, Gerrard and Kuyt. Great players/legends/servants at their peak but time to start looking seriously at other options. Coates must be give some game time this season - we have nothing to lose at this stage...finishing above/below Norwich/Sunderland/WBA/Newcastle is pretty much meaningless.

I'd like to see Kelly given a proper chance too - I reckon he could be a legend in the making if he's handled properly.

Henderson has potential too I think but Spearing is limited at this level. He's honest and hard-working but I've never seen anything in him beyond that.

Dublin_Gunner · 05-03-2012 12:16pm

Chucky the tree wrote: »

So lets spend £35m on a player who's injured and who we have no idea when he will be fight. Great Logic there. That's before even getting into the fact he's not very good in the first place :pac:

Chucky, I'm pretty sure this has been explained a million times before, but since you seem so determined to be blinkered, I'll state it again.

Torres got sold. We had no first team striker. We needed to buy, with mere hours to go, which restricted who we bought for a number of reasons.

1. Time/distance - we needed a player based in England so we could get them across and do the necessary signing etc before the windows closed.
2. Availability. We needed a player that we COULD buy.
3. We had 50m to spend. We just got that from the Torres sale, so it really didn't matter how much of it we spent, we needed a striker on the books.

Carroll ticked all of those boxes, but sure, we threw a lot of cash at him to ensure the deal got done.

It really bemuses me why people still bring the Carroll transfer into a debate - its been done a zillion times at this stage, and is really of no consequence any more.

noodler · 05-03-2012 12:24pm

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Chucky, I'm pretty sure this has been explained a million times before, but since you seem so determined to be blinkered, I'll state it again.

Torres got sold. We had no first team striker. We needed to buy, with mere hours to go, which restricted who we bought for a number of reasons.

1. Time/distance - we needed a player based in England so we could get them across and do the necessary signing etc before the windows closed.
2. Availability. We needed a player that we COULD buy.
3. We had 50m to spend. We just got that from the Torres sale, so it really didn't matter how much of it we spent, we needed a striker on the books.

Carroll ticked all of those boxes, but sure, we threw a lot of cash at him to ensure the deal got done.

It really bemuses me why people still bring the Carroll transfer into a debate - its been done a zillion times at this stage, and is really of no consequence any more.

Your argument seems to be "the signing was stupid but we had no choice but to be stupid".

It has been done a zillion times but why are you making an attempt to justify it?

I dont see why we couldn't have held onto the 35m until the summer. We had nothing serious to play for and Suarez, Kuyt and Gerrard could have filled the void until the summer window.

kippy · 05-03-2012 12:27pm

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Chucky, I'm pretty sure this has been explained a million times before, but since you seem so determined to be blinkered, I'll state it again.

Torres got sold. We had no first team striker. We needed to buy, with mere hours to go, which restricted who we bought for a number of reasons.

1. Time/distance - we needed a player based in England so we could get them across and do the necessary signing etc before the windows closed.
2. Availability. We needed a player that we COULD buy.
3. We had 50m to spend. We just got that from the Torres sale, so it really didn't matter how much of it we spent, we needed a striker on the books.

Carroll ticked all of those boxes, but sure, we threw a lot of cash at him to ensure the deal got done.

It really bemuses me why people still bring the Carroll transfer into a debate - its been done a zillion times at this stage, and is really of no consequence any more.

One has to ask how crazy a transfer "policy" that is however?
What do you mean the Carroll transfer is of "no consequence" any more?

His transfer is of major consequence. Any player you spend 35 million pounds on (no matter where that money came from) is going to be of major consequence.

Daemonic · 05-03-2012 12:27pm

AFAIR, the transfer window when Carroll arrived was the last before the FFP rules kicked in so the last opportunity to splash cash without any consequences under FFP.

jethro081 · 05-03-2012 12:31pm

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Chucky, I'm pretty sure this has been explained a million times before, but since you seem so determined to be blinkered, I'll state it again.

Torres got sold. We had no first team striker. We needed to buy, with mere hours to go, which restricted who we bought for a number of reasons.

1. Time/distance - we needed a player based in England so we could get them across and do the necessary signing etc before the windows closed.
2. Availability. We needed a player that we COULD buy.
3. We had 50m to spend. We just got that from the Torres sale, so it really didn't matter how much of it we spent, we needed a striker on the books.

Carroll ticked all of those boxes, but sure, we threw a lot of cash at him to ensure the deal got done.

It really bemuses me why people still bring the Carroll transfer into a debate - its been done a zillion times at this stage, and is really of no consequence any more.

not disputing your point but the reason it keeps getting brought up is it hangs like a millstone around the the club. we would have been better off, and i mean faaar better off not buying anyone. we spent in a panic for the sake of two goals in one game last season? having a striker on the books who wasnt on the pitch is pretty pointless.

and i know, hindsight is twenty twenty vision, but i dont think there was a single person who thought signing caroll was a good idea. and its worrying that commoli and kenny did.

Chucky the tree · 05-03-2012 12:31pm

Cartman78 wrote: »

Ok..the aging thing might have been a bit harsh i guess.... I was referring mainly to Carra, Gerrard and Kuyt. Great players/legends/servants at their peak but time to start looking seriously at other options. Coates must be give some game time this season - we have nothing to lose at this stage...finishing above/below Norwich/Sunderland/WBA/Newcastle is pretty much meaningless.

I'd like to see Kelly given a proper chance too - I reckon he could be a legend in the making if he's handled properly.

Henderson has potential too I think but Spearing is limited at this level. He's honest and hard-working but I've never seen anything in him beyond that.

I disgaree with finsihing above our below being meaningless. There is a massive difference between finishing 5th or 6th and 10th or worse. I agree with most of the other stuff though, Gerrard, carragher and Kuyt can not be relied on anymore. In saying that I think Spearing fine as a squad player. I'd have no problem playing him in the lower matches against the weaker teams in the league at home and in all cup games just to give Lucas a rest every so often.

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Chucky, I'm pretty sure this has been explained a million times before, but since you seem so determined to be blinkered, I'll state it again.

Torres got sold. We had no first team striker. We needed to buy, with mere hours to go, which restricted who we bought for a number of reasons.

1. Time/distance - we needed a player based in England so we could get them across and do the necessary signing etc before the windows closed.
2. Availability. We needed a player that we COULD buy.
3. We had 50m to spend. We just got that from the Torres sale, so it really didn't matter how much of it we spent, we needed a striker on the books.

Carroll ticked all of those boxes, but sure, we threw a lot of cash at him to ensure the deal got done.

It really bemuses me why people still bring the Carroll transfer into a debate - its been done a zillion times at this stage, and is really of no consequence any more.

It has been explained a million times more, and it's still laughable how people peddle the retarded bull**** about how we NEEDED to buy someone to replace Torres for 6 months so lets spent £35m on him. If we needed a first team striker so desperately why did we sign a guy who was out for a month and still had big question marks over when he would eventually be fit?

kippy · 05-03-2012 12:32pm

Daemonic wrote: »

AFAIR, the transfer window when Carroll arrived was the last before the FFP rules kicked in so the last opportunity to splash cash without any consequences under FFP.

That's just a crazy excuse, is it not?

Anyway, I'll move on from Carroll (I brought it up as a poster had wondered what would happen if Liverpool brought in a Marquee signing, I would assume that is what you would expect from 35 million pounds)

SlickRic · 05-03-2012 12:47pm

i was numbed by that result on Saturday.

as an Arsenal fan said to me immediately after the game, if we had VP in our team, we'd have won that 7-0. our problems in front of goal are very very serious at this stage. it's not a blip. it's not a case of the "goals eventually coming". it's a full blown problem.

the encouraging part of Saturday was that we created clear cut chances. contrary to what many believe, we don't create as much as we did on Saturday on that regular a basis. we were excellent. Henderson looked a player. Suarez was elusive. Spearing was composed for the most part. Kuyt showed energy and plenty of neat touches. Downing, particularly first half, continued to look like something resembling the player we bought. and Skrtel continues to be simply brilliant.

on the downside, Adam was atrocious. and that's kind. his long passing was abysmal, and that lack of vision to put in Henderson summed him up. pathetic. it was either greedy, or it was useless, one or the other.

back to the goalscoring issue...someone, or some players, need to really take on some responsibility for this. they need to get their finger out. Suarez, as good as he usually looks, has a meager return for someone of his talent. Our midfield never look like scoring.

and Andy Carroll, well, I'm convinced Kenny has no idea what he's doing with him. he got a run in the side, looked pretty good despite not being prolific (who is at the club?), and now seems to be out of the team. the team must be getting slightly confused at this rate, because even though we look more fluid with Kuyt and Suarez in tandem, you just know Carroll will be back in the team for a game or 2 coming up, and we'll have to change our style again to suit him.

i'm getting worried Kenny doesn't see a lot of the issues, but maybe more worrying, that he may see them, but does not know how to address them. we are getting to the stage where IMO, yes, we have a trophy, and that's great, but the team is not fulfilling what it should be league-wise (which is the bread and butter), that we've spent a lot of money doing so, and what have we got?

Adam - shíte.
Downing - very overpriced, and half-decent, just starting to show something.
Henderson - has something about him, but is still very much potential.
Carroll - waaay overpriced, and at best a decent target-man and striker.
Bellamy - a fantastic squad player whose made impact.

Kenny will be given the next window and until January I reckon. and he should be. but, if we have another window of underwhelming signings for big money, then sorry, Kenny should then be asked to step aside or upstairs.

his ability to change a game at the right time has to be brought into question now too. Saturday in particular was a poor performance from him. i know you can't compensate for hitting the post twice, and Kelly missing a sitter, but this sort of shít is happening too often for it to be coincidence.

anyway, sorry...

/rant.

kevohmsford · 05-03-2012 12:53pm

Yeah I have been very disappointed with Adam's performances. For Arsenals second goal there was zero pressure on Song from our midfield players. I totally agree we need a quality striker and are missing Lucas big time.

NabyLadistheman · 05-03-2012 12:53pm

The reality is Torres has not been replaced. If we had his goals this season god knows where we would be now. Im not pining for him back just stating a fact. I was absolutely disgusted Carroll never started the game on Saturday. Especially having the week off from International duty. He needs to be starting every game IMO so he can get the chance to score & so the club can actually evaluate if he can do a job. After all he was in good form before the cup final. RVP has single handedly carried Arsenal to where they are now, nailed on for fourth. United have Rooney's goals. Watched the highlight's again last night and it's disturbing the amount of chances we are missing.

Kenny has to come in for criticism & rightly so but I don't buy into the whole "he should be moved upstairs" brigade. This is his first full season in charge. IMO opinion he deserves next year to turn it around. People will say it's another year wasted but i don't think so. We are probably one of the most organised team's in the league, one of the best defences. We have won a cup & can potentially win another. I believe that is enough for Kenny to continue.

El Inho · 05-03-2012 12:58pm

Suarezistheman wrote: »

The reality is Torres has not been replaced. If we had his goals this season god knows where we would be now. Im not pining for him back just stating a fact. I was absolutely disgusted Carroll never started the game on Saturday. Especially having the week off from International duty. He needs to be starting every game IMO so he can get the chance to score & so the club can actually evaluate if he can do a job. After all he was in good form before the cup final. RVP has single handedly carried Arsenal to where they are now, nailed on for fourth. United have Rooney's goals. Watched the highlight's again last night and it's disturbing the amount of chances we are missing.

Kenny has to come in for criticism & rightly so but I don't buy into the whole "he should be moved upstairs" brigade. This is his first full season in charge. IMO opinion he deserves next year to turn it around. People will say it's another year wasted but i don't think so. We are probably one of the most organised team's in the league, one of the best defences. We have won a cup & can potentially win another. I believe that is enough for Kenny to continue.

exactly where we are now :P

Tusky · 05-03-2012 12:59pm

Slick - I think you are being overly kind to Downing and Carroll. Do you think Downing has been 'half decent' over the course of the season? I don't. Adam has been poor but at least he's chipped in with goals and assists.

Same with Carroll. He's had some 'decent' games in a Liverpool shirt but that's about it. He has been mostly poor since joining. Kenny must really be thanking the gods he got Enrique and Bellamy, otherwise he would be in big trouble in regards to his transfers.

If Downing and Carroll had cost £10m each they would still be a disappointment.

Outkast_IRE · 05-03-2012 1:00pm

Every dog on the street knew liverpool needed a goal scorer in the jan window the only sane reason in my mind for not splashing out was someone else becoming available in the summer window and us waiting for that.

I hope to god thats the reason why we didnt get someone in.

Dublin_Gunner · 05-03-2012 1:01pm

noodler wrote: »

Your argument seems to be "the signing was stupid but we had no choice but to be stupid".

It has been done a zillion times but why are you making an attempt to justify it?

I dont see why we couldn't have held onto the 35m until the summer. We had nothing serious to play for and Suarez, Kuyt and Gerrard could have filled the void until the summer window.

kippy wrote: »

One has to ask how crazy a transfer "policy" that is however?
What do you mean the Carroll transfer is of "no consequence" any more?

His transfer is of major consequence. Any player you spend 35 million pounds on (no matter where that money came from) is going to be of major consequence.

jethro081 wrote: »

not disputing your point but the reason it keeps getting brought up is it hangs like a millstone around the the club. we would have been better off, and i mean faaar better off not buying anyone. we spent in a panic for the sake of two goals in one game last season? having a striker on the books who wasnt on the pitch is pretty pointless.

and i know, hindsight is twenty twenty vision, but i dont think there was a single person who thought signing caroll was a good idea. and its worrying that commoli and kenny did.

I'm not trying to justify it, and I still think it was crazy, but I was merely giving the reasons for buying Carroll at the time.

If you noticed, none of the reason given had anything to do with him being scouted, or being on our radar for any amount of time.

The money was there, we spent it on a mediocre player, and that's it. Nothing more to add to it really.

If Carroll had turned out to be as prolific as he had been in the previous 6/7 months, we'd be all singing Comolli / KK's praises for snatching him.

Its a punt that didn't work out, but we didn't lose any money on it either.

Sasquatch76 · 05-03-2012 1:02pm

Suarezistheman wrote: »

Kenny has to come in for criticism & rightly so but I don't buy into the whole "he should be moved upstairs" brigade. This is his first full season in charge. IMO opinion he deserves next year to turn it around. People will say it's another year wasted but i don't think so. We are probably one of the most organised team's in the league, one of the best defences. We have won a cup & can potentially win another. I believe that is enough for Kenny to continue.

The problem with this (and it's just my own opinion) is that it's not just going to take time to fix the issues we have, but it will take money too. Do we have that money? If so, are we prepared to let Kenny have that money? If so, will he spend it wisely?

Rhetorical questions really. I love Kenny, but I can't answer each of my three questions with a confident "yes". Maybe JWH can.

mike65 · 05-03-2012 1:06pm

Maybe FSG will test Comolli/Dalglishs ability by simply telling them that say 20-25 million is the net spend for the summer. That's not much these days and one would need to have some (Newcastle like) imagination/scouting to spot the bargains. If KD is what some said when he was appointed, a check-book manager then that's a worry in itself.

Chucky the tree · 05-03-2012 1:10pm

Cartman78 wrote: »

Ok..the aging thing might have been a bit harsh i guess.... I was referring mainly to Carra, Gerrard and Kuyt. Great players/legends/servants at their peak but time to start looking seriously at other options. Coates must be give some game time this season - we have nothing to lose at this stage...finishing above/below Norwich/Sunderland/WBA/Newcastle is pretty much meaningless.

I'd like to see Kelly given a proper chance too - I reckon he could be a legend in the making if he's handled properly.

Henderson has potential too I think but Spearing is limited at this level. He's honest and hard-working but I've never seen anything in him beyond that.

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

I'm not trying to justify it, and I still think it was crazy, but I was merely giving the reasons for buying Carroll at the time.

If you noticed, none of the reason given had anything to do with him being scouted, or being on our radar for any amount of time.

The money was there, we spent it on a mediocre player, and that's it. Nothing more to add to it really.

If Carroll had turned out to be as prolific as he had been in the previous 6/7 months, we'd be all singing Comolli / KK's praises for snatching him.

Its a punt that didn't work out, but we didn't lose any money on it either.

Except £35m.

Dublin_Gunner · 05-03-2012 1:13pm

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Except £35m.

No, we spent 35m out of 50m we got for Torres. We didn't lose out on that.

My biggest concern would be the one thing we did lose - a quality striker.

You might say we got Carroll + 15m for Torres (as how quickly the deals were done, they may as well have been the same deal).

We lost a genuine goal scorer, which IMO would turn out to be far more valuable than 35m.

SlickRic · 05-03-2012 1:16pm

Tusky wrote: »

Slick - I think you are being overly kind to Downing and Carroll.

first of all, thanks for the reminder about Enrique. he's bedded in so well i'd forgotten he was a new signing.

Carroll has been ok. he hasn't really got a run of games, and while he's never worth what we paid, when he's gotten a run he's looked effective enough. don't get me wrong, he ain't a success yet, but he's ok.

Downing is starting to improve, but overall, hasn't been a success either, but the signs are there.

the thing with Adam IMO, is that his assists actually mask his overall contribution to the team for a central midfielder. he fouls far too much, goes for the Hollywood pass more than Gerrard, doesn't seem to have the confidence or composure to control a game, rarely picks the right option in attacking positions, and has hit maybe a half-dozen good dead balls in his time at the club.

i actually don't think he's capable of a higher level than we're seeing. i believe Downing and Carroll have shown better signs. that's just my uneducated opinion though, and i hope he proves me embarrassingly wrong.

but Spearing controls a game better than Charlie. and that's not good enough really.

Tusky · 05-03-2012 1:17pm

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Except £35m.

No, we spent 35m out of 50m we got for Torres. We didn't lose out on that.

My biggest concern would be the one thing we did lose - a quality striker.

You might say we got Carroll + 15m for Torres (as how quickly the deals were done, they may as well have been the same deal).

We lost a genuine goal scorer, which IMO would turn out to be far more valuable than 35m.

Oh dear god. Not you too Gunner? I thought you were one of the good ones?!?

Knex* · 05-03-2012 1:23pm

Interesting article that sums it all up for us in the League this year.

After their recent defeat to Arsenal, most Kopites agreed that whilst Liverpool had played reasonably well (if in a slightly clueless fashion at times), it was their finishing that had stopped them from claiming all three points.

With the Reds now ten points behind the much-coveted 4th place, it is surely time to start thinking about which players should be shipped out and replaced during the summer to have a better crack at it next term.

Or is it? Whilst I definitely agree with the general assessment of the Arsenal game, the most frustrating thing is that it is far from the first time this season that this has been the case. So does that mean wholesale changes are required or not?

I’m not convinced that they are. Whilst Liverpool are, clearly, far from the finished article, it has felt when watching the majority of their games this season that they have dominated their opponents, and by looking at the match stats on EPLIndex, it becomes clear that this has been the case more often than not.

Take a look at the table below. I have gone through the statistics for each Liverpool match, and recorded how many times the Reds have been out-performed by their rivals in the key match statistics:

What we can see here is that Liverpool have dominated their opponents in most aspects of the game in around three-quarters of their matches. To have had more of the ball in twenty-two out of twenty-six league games, for example, is a promising position to start from.

The first obvious exception to the Reds’ general dominance is shooting accuracy; this won’t come as a surprise to many people reading this, as the stat that Liverpool have the worst shots-to-goals conversion ratio in the Premier League has been endlessly doing the rounds on Twitter and the forums of late (for a detailed analysis of Liverpool’s shot placement woes, check out this article which I wrote for the excellent The Tomkins Times website).

The other standout figure is in the tackling statistics. Most of that can surely be put down to the absence of one key player: Lucas Leiva. Of the eleven games where Liverpool attempted less tackles than their opponents, only two came in the twelve matches where Lucas played, meaning that in nine of the fourteen he has missed (or 64% of the time) the Reds were not as physical as the opposition.

So to make Liverpool a real force in the Premier League, is it as simple as bringing back the Brazilian maestro from injury and adding a clinical striker? Things are rarely that simple in football, but at the same time, if the Reds are dominating their opponents in the key aspects of matches for approximately 75% of the time, then I don’t think there can be too much wrong with the team and its approach.

To my mind, if Damien Comolli can find a deadly marksman and bring him on board, then suddenly this team might be able to take the league (or at least the top four) by storm next season. Over to you Damien.

http://www.eplindex.com/11007/liverpool-dominate-match-fail-win-usual.html

Tusky · 05-03-2012 1:23pm

SlickRic wrote: »

Tusky wrote: »

Slick - I think you are being overly kind to Downing and Carroll.

first of all, thanks for the reminder about Enrique. he's bedded in so well i'd forgotten he was a new signing.

Carroll has been ok. he hasn't really got a run of games, and while he's never worth what we paid, when he's gotten a run he's looked effective enough. don't get me wrong, he ain't a success yet, but he's ok.

Downing is starting to improve, but overall, hasn't been a success either, but the signs are there.

the thing with Adam IMO, is that his assists actually mask his overall contribution to the team for a central midfielder. he fouls far too much, goes for the Hollywood pass more than Gerrard, doesn't seem to have the confidence or composure to control a game, rarely picks the right option in attacking positions, and has hit maybe a half-dozen good dead balls in his time at the club.

i actually don't think he's capable of a higher level than we're seeing. i believe Downing and Carroll have shown better signs. that's just my uneducated opinion though, and i hope he proves me embarrassingly wrong.

but Spearing controls a game better than Charlie. and that's not good enough really.

I agree. Adam has major problems in his game and I don't think he's a good fit at Liverpool, certainly not as a first teamed. But, and this was my point, at least he has impacted on our season in some way. I believe you could take Downing out of the squad and we would be in exactly the same position this season. He has done nothing, apart from a couple of decent games and a confident penalty in the final, to impact on our season.

Similarly, take Carroll out of the team and we would be in the same position we are in today. I truly believe that.

Dublin_Gunner · 05-03-2012 1:23pm

Tusky wrote: »

Oh dear god. Not you too Gunner? I thought you were one of the good ones?!?

lol

I've conceded defeat over the whole thing and I will forever endeavor to always make the glass look half full!

SlickRic · 05-03-2012 1:27pm

ffs.

Liverpool only have 30 Premier League goals this season.

RVP has 25.

daithijjj · 05-03-2012 1:28pm

Daemonic wrote: »

AFAIR, the transfer window when Carroll arrived was the last before the FFP rules kicked in so the last opportunity to splash cash without any consequences under FFP.

Thats correct. I said this a while back. What happened that window was the perfect storm. The 35mil that went on Carroll would not go against us in FFP but hanging on until summer would have been against us and money that could not have been spent as freely.

And its not an excuse for 'wasting' 35mil, its just the reality of the situation. As far as the owners were concerned theres no doubt in my mind that this came into their thinking. It was a calculated gamble and i can see why they did it. Worst case scenario they must have thought we will underwrite any potential loss on this isolated case. In reality, we actually only spent a couple of million that window, Babel and Torres for Suarez and Carroll. FFPR had to come into it.

Sappy404 · 05-03-2012 1:29pm

SlickRic wrote: »

his ability to change a game at the right time has to be brought into question now too. Saturday in particular was a poor performance from him. i know you can't compensate for hitting the post twice, and Kelly missing a sitter, but this sort of shít is happening too often for it to be coincidence.

/rant.

The thing is we didn't really need to change much. We really came back into it midway through the 2nd half as was mentioned in commentary. I think Kenny was afraid of disrupting things. Van Persie's winner really was a sucker punch.

daithijjj · 05-03-2012 1:32pm

SlickRic wrote: »

ffs.

Liverpool only have 30 Premier League goals this season.

RVP has 25.

Our entire starting XI that took the field against Arsenal had 12 league goals.

kippy · 05-03-2012 1:33pm

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Its a punt that didn't work out, but we didn't lose any money on it either.

I don't get it, how can normally logical and intelligent people (and there are many on this forum) suddenly turn into blinkered maths failures when they put their fan hat on.

Ye invested 35 million pounds + his (not insignificant) wages for the duration of his contract on him. It could have been invested in other players who may have improved significantly the team.

Torres was not the player he was at his peak when ye got 50 million for him, the injuries appeared to have taken it's toll and that was a great price to get for him at the time, and especially in hindsight.
But that 50 million wasn't "free" money. Ye had it to spend on other players.

Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12-Jan 2012 onwards

Comments