Gerrards dive

KdjaCL · 31-05-2006 10:56am #1

For all the abuse certain Portugese players and other foreign players for diving, i couldnt believe not many mentioned this from our very own err i mean Englands very own wonderboy.

Former England skipper Terry Butcher has condemned Steven Gerrard for diving to win a penalty against Hungary.

Butcher told Five Live Sport: "It was never a penalty, Steve Gerrard dived," after replays showed Czabo Feher's challenge made no contact.

But former England striker Ian Wright refused to condemn Gerrard, saying: "Other teams will do it against us so why don't we do it?"

A Football Association spokesman said it had no comment to make.

Crystal Palace keeper Gabor Kiraly saved the resulting penalty from Frank Lampard in England's 3-1 win at Old Trafford, but Butcher said: "You can't give a penalty for that.

"Feher came in two-footed to win the ball and Gerrard took it to one side and then went down, there was no contact whatsoever.

"Had there been contact he would have been stretchered off as it was a reckless challenge."

Wright claimed Gerrard's actions were justified, and refused to castigate the England midfielder.

The former England striker said: "Other people do that to us all the time and we say it isn't a penalty.

"It will happen to us again so we should do it."

Should he get an after match red card as has been mentioned here for other players? Should be he banned from the 1st WC games for it? Amazed the bbc carried as usually it never happens as Englsih players are gentleman.

Gotta love Wright when Etoo dived vs Arse in the final he wanted a lynch mob.

kdjac

county · 31-05-2006 11:00am

he dived simple as that.but justice was served as the peno was saved.

iregk · 31-05-2006 11:04am

Well the CL final for me summed up everything thats wrong with the English. Paul Merson talking at half time was going mad at the sending off saying it was a disgrace and it was pre meditated by the ref etc... Then they showed the dive for Arsenals free kick which resulted in the goal and Merson was saying it was a class dive and he did great to win it and fair play to him it was a brilliant decision to go down!!!

Had that been the other way around and it would have been a huge injustice. But everyone goes on about Robben, Drogba, RVN etc... Gerrard is one of the worst in the prem for it.

Hobart · 31-05-2006 11:05am

Did not see the incident, but it is not hard to believe. It is not the first time he has been caught out doing this. I don't believe that he should miss out on a WC cup game for this, and I don't think it will happen.

What I really cannot understand is that the guy is so talented and does not need to do this. It is a part of his (and others) game that really ruins a player for me.

yop · 31-05-2006 11:06am

anyone got a link?

daveirl · 31-05-2006 11:06am

This post has been deleted.

Hobart · 31-05-2006 11:22am

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

It's not just England. It's throughout the game at both club an international level.

mike65 · 31-05-2006 11:29am

It pissed me off and I ws glad Frankie fluffed the peno. I blame the coaches they must activly encourage players to adopt a "take a dive if in the box and it looks vaguly plausible" attitude. The refs have to be sharper too.

the BBC were almost embarrasingly quiet about it.

Mike.

p.pete · 31-05-2006 11:43am

They were condeming it on BBC 5 analysis.

The Rooster · 31-05-2006 11:51am

I watch a helluva lot of Gerrard, and I rarely remember him diving. The one that springs to mind is the CL final, but that was desperate measures and he was being closely challenged.

Diving is not the right thing to do. To dive in a meaningless friendly is pure stupid in my opinion. Every ref will in the WC will know about this now, and as sure as anything there will be at least one incident where Gerrard is genuinely fouled in or around the box, and the decision will not go his way.

Obviously I have no facts to back the following up, but I bet if I could analyse every penalty I've ever seen between good decisions and bad decisions, that the scoring success rate would be a helluva lot higher for those that were good decisions!

Lex Luthor · 31-05-2006 11:55am

Its a bit 2 faced by him cos he was only mouthing off a few weeks ago about how diving should be kicked out of the game....

The Muppet · 31-05-2006 12:20pm

The Rooster wrote:

I watch a helluva lot of Gerrard, and I rarely remember him diving.

That Alzihmers is a curse.;)

Hobart · 31-05-2006 12:22pm

The Muppet wrote:

That Alzihmers is a curse.;)

Alzihmers? It sounds as bad as dyslexia.

astrofool · 31-05-2006 12:28pm

Did anything happen with regards clamping down on diving during the world cup? I.e. directives for referee's to follow? If it takes one of the star players missing the WC final due to a dive, so be it, might filter through the ranks.

The Muppet · 31-05-2006 12:28pm

Hobart wrote:

Alzihmers? It sounds as bad as dyslexia.

Good to see the spelling police on the ball. Keep up the good work there Hanibal.

zAbbo · 31-05-2006 12:29pm

Joe Cole plainly handled the ball before the penalty incident.

A free kick to Hungary should have been the result.

Super Fwank missed it anyway, the choker

Guy:Incognito · 31-05-2006 12:47pm

Video evidence, video evidence, video evidence!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!eleven!!!!!!!!!!!!!

On another note. If Cristiano Ronaldo gets sent off for intent and not touchign a player, can SG not get a peno for intent?:)

Aldini98 · 31-05-2006 1:08pm

Ian Wright is THE worst pundit to have on. He's so biased its scary. He hasnt a clue and I just want to hit him.

Motson is an annoying bastard as well, roll on Bill Johnny and Eamo, at least theyre honest not like the English ass kissing Hansen.

eirebhoy · 31-05-2006 1:32pm

Aldini98 wrote:

Ian Wright is THE worst pundit to have on. He's so biased its scary. He hasnt a clue and I just want to hit him.

I think everyone in England would agree with that too. Probably the worst pundit I've ever seen.

LizardKing · 31-05-2006 1:39pm

You can see the DIVE here in this highlights montage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmIDBOt6x7I

iregk · 31-05-2006 1:40pm

You have got to admit though when England loose he is just priceless to watch. I remember when they were knocked out of the EC last time around, cut to studio and a devastated Gary Liniker, smiling Alan Hansen and Mark Lawro with Ian right not even looking at the camera but out at the pitch in tears. It was the best 30 seconds of tv in the last 10 years! Looking forward to it again.

frobisher · 31-05-2006 1:51pm

Woo hoo! My first soccer forum post!

I was disappointed in Gerard's dive last night. I have the upmost respect for him as a player but last night was a sorry sight. He cheated.

Wright's assertion that it was okay was an even greater crime. He was a great player and is an enthusiastic football pundit but no amount of enthusiasm can cover up the fact that he said plain and simple on national TV that it is okay for England to cheat. He should be fired and replaced by.......eh....... Gazza.;)

I can see Gerard in the final against Brazil getting a red card for diving in the box, (broad scouse accent): "But ref, Ian Wright said on the BBC that England were allowed to cheat! Ah c'mon ref, it's not easy staying on your feet with the British media, the spirit of '66 and the weight of expectation of an entire nation on your back." The ref will of course be German.

Slash/ED · 31-05-2006 2:50pm

Wright is fantastic when England lose, pure magical TV. Just sit back and take in the hilarity.

Hobart · 31-05-2006 3:01pm

The Muppet wrote:

Good to see the spilling police on the ball.

~Indeed muppet. Just a hint, if you are going to slag somebody, don't leave yourself open to ridicule in the slagging post. Oh...and you forgot the smiley.

As for the Gerrard dive, again, watching it is cringeing. I don't really see a solution to it tbh. I think the whole "trial by replay" is a bad idea, as every single incident in a match would come under the spotlight. Self-education on these matters should suffice, and the media should attack any individual blatantly caught doing this type of thing.

LizardKing · 31-05-2006 3:08pm

Hobart wrote:

watching it is cringeing.

Ahem cringing ... perhaps ..

jesus_thats_gre · 31-05-2006 3:44pm

My god, they are biased.. Shock horror..

But yes, it was a dive and I wish he would stop.

KdjaCL · 31-05-2006 4:08pm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2006/teams/england/5033004.stm

kdjac

arbeitsscheuer · 31-05-2006 4:18pm

Actually I agree with SteKelly:

If Cristiano Ronaldo gets sent off for intent and not touchign a player, can SG not get a peno for intent?

Very few people have pointed out that;
a) the defender went in with a needless, reckless, and two-footed tackle in his own penalty-area... and
b) If SG doesn't get out of the way he could get seriously injured. In a friendly. 2 weeks before the start of the World Cup.

Also, I reckon the ref must've seen there was no contact, cos if there had been then the defender would have been given a straight Red for dangerous play.

Besides, Kiraly saved the pen anyway and England went on to win. It's a non-story tbh.

AthAnRi · 31-05-2006 4:35pm

Hobart wrote:

Alzihmers? It sounds as bad as dyslexia.

What you can read minds?

Anyway gerard dived, big deal it happens every fookin day in football. I actually don't have a problem with players diving, if they were going to be fouled anyway. I think it's only fair punishment for the offender that he not only fails to seriously injure a player but also give away a penalty. For example, last night if Stevie 'Moaning bastard' Gerard didn't dive then he would most certainly have been fouled and possibly injured, where as the lad from arsenal, eboue I think, blatently dived, he would not have been fouled or injured.

The question is should a player have to risk serious injury just to et a free awarded or is it enough for the offending player to attempt to foul?

LizardKing · 31-05-2006 4:38pm

diving=cheating , cheating = bad , mmmkay

arbeitsscheuer · 31-05-2006 4:47pm

AthAnRi wrote:

Anyway gerard dived, big deal it happens every fookin day in football. I actually don't have a problem with players diving, if they were going to be fouled anyway. I think it's only fair punishment for the offender that he not only fails to seriously injure a player but also give away a penalty. For example, last night if Stevie 'Moaning bastard' Gerard didn't dive then he would most certainly have been fouled and possibly injured, where as the lad from arsenal, eboue I think, blatently dived, he would not have been fouled or injured.

Concur, absolutely spot on.
I'm an Arsenal fan, so you might possibly expect me to be biased, but Eboue's dive is the 'perfect' example of the antithesis of Gerrard's dive. Eboue lost control of the ball and dived, cheated, to win a free-kick. That should have been a yellow card for Eboue and a FK to Barca. SG was going to get fouled and possibly injured, so he deserved a penalty, regardless of how he went about getting it.

MrJoeSoap · 31-05-2006 4:51pm

I don't get how people can say Gerrard was "going to be fouled". If he can avoid the tackle and then throw himself to the ground as if he was caught then its a dive. If he was knocked off balance trying to avoid the tackle its a different story though.

As for Ian Wright, don't even get me started. It's like having Ian Paisley in the studio for an Ireland-England game.

PHB · 31-05-2006 5:05pm

Em, what the **** are you all on about?
Gerrard was going to get fouled? Why was he going to get fouled?
It was a dive because he fell the the ground of his own accord.

He was not touched by the player whatsoever, and if he had just stood there, eventually somebody woulda run into him, would that be a peno? Like what are you guys on about?

He had gotten past his player, was in no danger of getting injured, and decided to fall over.

So let's just clear this up:

1. Gerrard gets the ball
2. Defender dives in with a tackle (which is two footed in the sense that both feet were moving, wasn't exactly a two footed tackle)
3. Gerrard gets past him maintaining control of the ball
4. Gerrard falls over.

Its a dive, and there is no way it is any different to Eboue's dive.

He dived, its part of the modern game, shock shock.

When England get cheated on during the WC, they should look back, and realise this.

The problem is not with the players, it's with FIFA. Until FIFA really ban this sorta stuff, it will continue, and while it is able to be done to your team, you will accept that your team should do it, it's just life.

Problem is with FIFA, not Gerrard

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 31-05-2006 5:08pm

KdjaC wrote:

Should he get an after match red card as has been mentioned here for other players?
kdjac

Straight red for diving? When did this come in? Book him if guilty, yes, and I'm seriously in favour of post-match video intrepretation and punishment for anyone caught doing it. Can you be suspended for a full competitive international if sent off in a friendly...? Not sure, although I do have a vague recollection of it happening before.

PHB · 31-05-2006 5:18pm

No you can't Ikky, but that is the only way to ever stop diving.

Impose a very simple rule:

Players caught diving by video evidence recieve an automatic 5 game ban.
Let's see if anyone dives anymore.

WhiteWashMan · 31-05-2006 5:31pm

PHB wrote:

No you can't Ikky, but that is the only way to ever stop diving.

Impose a very simple rule:

Players caught diving by video evidence recieve an automatic 5 game ban.
Let's see if anyone dives anymore.

thats a bit harsh tbh. i mean, its open to different interpretations from different people and if someone else thinks you dived when you accidentally fell over and you just happen to be given a free kick for it, its harsh to get a 5 game ban for that.

maybe a yellow, becuase thats all that they can give for a dive in a real game.

PHB · 31-05-2006 6:07pm

Harsh?
You cheated to influence the result of a game. Sounds pretty bad to me.

Yeh, but there are blatent dives and there is going over easily.

You can make it so that if the committee unaminously agree with was a dive, it recieves a 5 match ban.
For example, Gerrards last night.

So people going down easy wouldn't be punished that way, but flat out dives would.

So when you are sure, you give them a 5 match ban, this will have an effect on stop other people diving, because they don't want to risk it.

All you'd have to do is give out 4 or 5 anyway, and people would just stop diving.

astrofool · 31-05-2006 6:22pm

For every confirmed dive, give the other team a goal (even retrospectively). See how long it lasts then!

wheres me jumpa · 31-05-2006 7:32pm

This is classic. Gerrard the hard man diving. It proves that no team or player is above this. No fan here can point the finger. Its a horrible horrible part of the game these days.

The only solution is to hand out bans afterwards. Gerrard should get a few games for that. But even this wont solve the problem, players sacrifice themselves for red cards so why wont they sacrifice themelves for a dive.

el rabitos · 31-05-2006 7:34pm

gerrard is a hard man?

wheres me jumpa · 31-05-2006 7:37pm

el rabitos wrote:

gerrard is a hard man?

Well Gerrard would be seen as one of the tougher midfield opponents.

Hobart · 31-05-2006 7:39pm

astrofool wrote:

For every confirmed dive, give the other team a goal (even retrospectively). See how long it lasts then!

Top idea. Let's start over analysing every game aswell. Let's look at all the off the ball incidents, and punish them too. Let's lock up repeat offenders.

Or...

Let's just accept it as a part of the game, and get over it.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 31-05-2006 8:23pm

wheres me jumpa wrote:

Well Gerrard would be seen as one of the tougher midfield opponents.

tougher in terms of more skillful and more difficult to play against or tougher as in hard man?

wheres me jumpa · 31-05-2006 8:26pm

Ikky Poo2 wrote:

tougher in terms of more skillful and more difficult to play against or tougher as in hard man?

Christ almighty, my point being that Gerrard isnt your typical diver such as Ronaldo, Robben etc.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 31-05-2006 8:35pm

al reet al reet calm down calm cown

thegills · 31-05-2006 8:39pm

I didn't really think he dived. An earlier poster said that if there was contact then Gerrard would have been stretchered off, i.e. there was no contact.

So was Gerrard supposed to take the tackle instead of diving to avoid it; and possibly risk missing the WC? The penalty was given because Gerrard was in possession and about to shoot. The tackle prevented him doing this and as it was an illegal tackle a peno was awarded.

Gerrard was faced with 2 optoins 1) Not dive and risk being clattered or 2) Dive, avoid the challenge and perhaps get a peno. As he was in a goal scoring position a peno was a fair outcome.

Just my 2pence.

thegills

wheres me jumpa · 31-05-2006 8:46pm

thegills wrote:

I didn't really think he dived. An earlier poster said that if there was contact then Gerrard would have been stretchered off, i.e. there was no contact.

So was Gerrard supposed to take the tackle instead of diving to avoid it; and possibly risk missing the WC? The penalty was given because Gerrard was in possession and about to shoot. The tackle prevented him doing this and as it was an illegal tackle a peno was awarded.

Gerrard was faced with 2 optoins 1) Not dive and risk being clattered or 2) Dive, avoid the challenge and perhaps get a peno. As he was in a goal scoring position a peno was a fair outcome.

Just my 2pence.

thegills

If Ronaldo, Diouf or Robben took that option would you feel the same way?

Pepe LeFrits · 31-05-2006 8:48pm

Aldini98 wrote:

Ian Wright is THE worst pundit to have on. He's so biased its scary. He hasnt a clue and I just want to hit him.

I think that's the point, he doesn't even try to hide his bias - he's like a fanzone pundit! Love him.

Most of the others are pants though. I like Lineker mind.

Anyway, Gerrard dived in a meaningless friendly. Let's lynch him!

It's not like Duffer gets scandalised by the Irish media whenever he dives in an Ireland shirt, and he's made some pretty high profile ones.

Aquos76 · 31-05-2006 9:10pm

The Rooster wrote:

I watch a helluva lot of Gerrard, and I rarely remember him diving. The one that springs to mind is the CL final, but that was desperate measures and he was being closely challenged.

Would you like to explain this one so?

And this is the one you referred to in the CL final

Chucky the tree · 31-05-2006 9:29pm

It was a blatant dive. I was not pissed off with gerrard for doing it. Every player will do it.

What gets on my tits is the english media. The sky commentator who was doing the highlights said it was a reckless challenge so it deserved a peno, brilliant. We all know what wright said aswell.

I really hope england go out of the World cup due to a peno that was won by a dive. Wonder will ian still think its acceptable to dive? He claims that it happens to england so they should do it, a disgrace.

Someone should tell him 2 wrongs dont make a wright...*

I wonder what would of happened if wright said that its alright to take performance enhancing drugs? I doubt he would of kept his job. What he did last night was no different.

*My coats in my hand already

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 31-05-2006 9:36pm

Chucky the tree wrote:

I really hope england go out of the World cup due to a peno that was won by a dive. Wonder will ian still think its acceptable to dive? He claims that it happens to england so they should do it, a disgrace.

He'd claim vindication that it's ok for them to dive.

Gerrards dive

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