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Bus Éireann New Improved Timetable Waterford-Carlow-Dublin-Airport

  • 13-06-2012 7:19pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 89 ✭✭


    From this Sunday 17 June Bus Éireann will interduce a new improved timetable on the Waterford-Carlow-Dublin-Airport. Journey time from Waterford-Dublin will reduce to 2h30mins. A new X4 service will replace some 4 services mainly night time departures from Waterford only and they will use the M9 to Kilkenny and service Kilkenny rail station. Must say the trains take around 2.25-2.30 so now IR have meet there match and its time to wake up and do somthing. Thats Cork, Waterford and Belfast with recent bus improvments to match train servics.

    http://buseireann.ie/pdf/1339596993-4.pdf


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 313 ✭✭Geog1234


    Seems a good timetable.

    Assume the stop (marked by a Bus Éireann flagpole) at Green Lane/Hillview Drive on the outskirts of Carlow (Dublin side) is still being served.

    Boarded there once and saw others boarding/alighting too on several different occasions.

    It's neither explicitly mentioned in the current timetable nor this forthcoming one.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,474 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Brill to see more direct BE airport services from Kilkenny. Pity they don't seem to have any return services though via Kilkenny.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Geog1234 wrote: »
    Seems a good timetable.

    Assume the stop (marked by a Bus Éireann flagpole) at Green Lane/Hillview Drive on the outskirts of Carlow (Dublin side) is still being served.

    Boarded there once and saw others boarding/alighting too on several different occasions.

    It's neither explicitly mentioned in the current timetable nor this forthcoming one.
    It is a rubbish timetable as it still has massive three hour gaps between peak time buses, there are no buses from Carlow to Dublin from ten past four to ten past seven!. Also that stop at quinns shop in Carlow is not served by "expressway" buses only what are known as service buses, but these are not marked on the timetable.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,984 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    It is a rubbish timetable as it still has massive three hour gaps between peak time buses, there are no buses from Carlow to Dublin from ten past four to ten past seven!. Also that stop at quinns shop in Carlow is not served by "expressway" buses only what are known as service buses, but these are not marked on the timetable.

    Yes it does seem to be a pretty poor attempt. I wonder if they are doing this in attempt to stop a private company entering the market along the same route with a more complete schedule.

    A Dublin - Kilkenny - Carlow - Waterford service would be the next obvious route for a private after all the recent Cork, Belfast, Limerick action.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,917 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    There are JJ Kavanagh coaches out of Carlow to Dublin at 1710 and 1845. There hardly needs to be more duplication?

    However a certain poster doesn't seem to use that operator and never mentions them as an option for whatever reason.

    JJ Kavanagh operate Dublin Airport-Dublin-Carlow-Waterford and Dublin Airport-Dublin-Kilkenny-Clonmel.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    lxflyer wrote: »
    There are JJ Kavanagh coaches out of Carlow to Dublin at 1710 and 1845. There hardly needs to be more duplication?

    However a certain poster doesn't seem to use that operator and never mentions them as an option for whatever reason.

    JJ Kavanagh operate Dublin Airport-Dublin-Carlow-Waterford and Dublin Airport-Dublin-Kilkenny-Clonmel.
    I am aware of the private operator on the route and have used them several times but can't understand why this route is left in the hands of private operators when Dublin to rosslare, Belfast, edenderry,athlone, Galway and limerick and the Galway to limerick and even waterford to cork and waterford to limerick routes are better served with better timetables and the routes recieve far more attention from bus Eireann? Is it because the Waterford route is part of their public service offering for which they recieve a subsidy?

    Also worth note is that kavanaghs take a lot longer between Dublin and Waterford and serve Naas Kilcullen and Castledermot and several other stops along the route.

    Why are the people of Waterford and Carlow treated like lepers by C.I.E.? For years there was an awful train service to Carlow with regular breakdowns and often trains not being available at all and the buses were not much better, why are the new expressway buses not used on the Waterford route??


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,917 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    The route is not subsidised so it is open to anyone to operate it. Therefore it is not a public service - it is a commercial one.

    Where the vehicles operate is a commercial decision by the company.

    You need to look at all the operators' services and not just Bus Eireann. Reading your original post, anyone would have thought that there were no alternatives.

    I would strongly argue to the contrary regards the level of service - there are 8 trains a day to Waterford and 9 to Carlow. There are 9 BE expressway services also and 12 JJ Kavanagh services a day. That is hardly a poor service.

    I don't see anything written in stone that BE have to provide hourly services everywhere? Maybe the NTA won't let them?


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,984 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    BE could only manage 6 services a day to Cork, the second largest city in Ireland with nothing before 8am and noting after 6pm :eek:

    And you are surprised their service to Waterford is so poor!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,917 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    To be fair they and Aircoach operated it as an effective joint service with the two alternating.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,984 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    lxflyer wrote: »
    To be fair they and Aircoach operated it as an effective joint service with the two alternating.

    And you think a cozy duopoly is a good thing :eek:

    Fortunately these sort of cozy relationships are starting to end and we are getting some vicous competition, with the resulting vastly better standards of service for the customer :)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    lxflyer wrote: »
    The route is not subsidised so it is open to anyone to operate it. Therefore it is not a public service - it is a commercial one.

    Where the vehicles operate is a commercial decision by the company.

    You need to look at all the operators' services and not just Bus Eireann. Reading your original post, anyone would have thought that there were no alternatives.

    I would strongly argue to the contrary regards the level of service - there are 8 trains a day to Waterford and 9 to Carlow. There are 9 BE expressway services also and 12 JJ Kavanagh services a day. That is hardly a poor service.

    I don't see anything written in stone that BE have to provide hourly services everywhere? Maybe the NTA won't let them?
    Obviously there is some tightwad in Waterford or Dublin making decisions that the route is not worth putting decent buses onto and giving the thousands of people in Carlow and Waterford a service they can use! having gaps of three hours between peak time services is just not good enough for people who decide for whatever reason not to take the train or private operator! bus Eireann should either provide the service or hand the route over entirely to private operators who will do a much better job IMHO.
    bk wrote: »
    BE could only manage 6 services a day to Cork, the second largest city in Ireland with nothing before 8am and noting after 6pm :eek:

    And you are surprised their service to Waterford is so poor!
    It really is laughable when you consider they operate an hourly service between Waterford and cork and a bi-hourly service between Waterford and Limerick but can't run a bus to Dublin every two hours with an hourly bus to Carlow, makes me think there is some sweetheart deal done with Kavanaghs and Bus Eireann will not compete with them on this route. also there is no bus to dublin after 7.30pm which is a disgrace considering the last train departs even earlier than that at 6.20pm


    Is it too much to ask that the national bus company provide proper expressway services for all areas and not just where they want to compete with Citylink, Aircoach and Gobus?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,917 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    bk wrote: »
    And you think a cozy duopoly is a good thing :eek:

    Fortunately these sort of cozy relationships are starting to end and we are getting some vicous competition, with the resulting vastly better standards of service for the customer :)

    Not at all, but pre-M8 it probably was an appropriate level of service, perhaps with the exception of the early morning/late evening. However you can blame both operators for that rather than just Bus Eireann. Aircoach didn't provide such services either.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,984 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    lxflyer wrote: »
    Not at all, but pre-M8 it probably was an appropriate level of service, perhaps with the exception of the early morning/late evening. However you can blame both operators for that rather than just Bus Eireann. Aircoach didn't provide such services either.

    No, it was never appropriate. We have had the M8 for a few years now and they still hadn't improved the service. See below for the reason why IMO.
    foggy_lad wrote: »

    It really is laughable when you consider they operate an hourly service between Waterford and cork and a bi-hourly service between Waterford and Limerick

    Is it too much to ask that the national bus company provide proper expressway services for all areas and not just where they want to compete with Citylink, Aircoach and Gobus?

    It is very clear to me that BE and Irish Rail had a non compete agreement. If IR served a place, BE didn't bother to serve the same places or only did the minimum possible.

    This left IR to charge high prices as they faced no competition and the public transport user suffered for it.

    Fortunately this is all now changing.

    The private operators are introducing much needed competition and we are now seeing BE and IR scrambling to respond.

    From the point of view of a public transport user, the last 6 months as brought a revolution in public transport, with more excellent services been introduced then ever before:

    - Fast (3 hours), cheap, hourly, 24 hour, direct bus service to Cork (with excellent stops at Dublin Airport) with possibly another service coming soon.
    - Fast, cheap, hourly, 15 hour a day, direct bus service to Limerick
    - Fast, cheap, hourly, 24 hour, direct bus service to Belfast (with excellent stops at Dublin Airport)
    - Faster direct Galway -> Limerick -> Cork service.

    And as a result, in response to this we are getting:

    - BE services to Belfast, Cork and Waterford being improved and made faster and with shinny new buses.
    - Irish Rail dropping their ticket prices in half :eek:
    - Irish Rail coming up with ways to reduce their journey times.
    - IR and BE introducing free wifi across most of their fleets.

    This competition is the best thing that has ever happened to the public transport user :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,917 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    Obviously there is some tightwad in Waterford or Dublin making decisions that the route is not worth putting decent buses onto and giving the thousands of people in Carlow and Waterford a service they can use! having gaps of three hours between peak time services is just not good enough for people who decide for whatever reason not to take the train or private operator! bus Eireann should either provide the service or hand the route over entirely to private operators who will do a much better job IMHO.

    It really is laughable when you consider they operate an hourly service between Waterford and cork and a bi-hourly service between Waterford and Limerick but can't run a bus to Dublin every two hours with an hourly bus to Carlow, makes me think there is some sweetheart deal done with Kavanaghs and Bus Eireann will not compete with them on this route. also there is no bus to dublin after 7.30pm which is a disgrace considering the last train departs even earlier than that at 6.20pm

    Is it too much to ask that the national bus company provide proper expressway services for all areas and not just where they want to compete with Citylink, Aircoach and Gobus?

    What part of "it's a commercial service" do you not understand?

    There is no obligation on them to provide any service on the route. The other routes out of Waterford have no private operator on them so BE fill the gap. Waterford-Dublin does have one and maybe BE don't feel there is a market for it. Remember that they do not get a subsidy for it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    bk wrote: »
    No, it was never appropriate. We have had the M8 for a few years now and they still hadn't improved the service. See below for the reason why IMO.



    It is very clear to me that BE and Irish Rail had a non compete agreement. If IR served a place, BE didn't bother to serve the same places or only did the minimum possible.

    This left IR to charge high prices as they faced no competition and the public transport user suffered for it.

    Fortunately this is all now changing.

    The private operators are introducing much needed competition and we are now seeing BE and IR scrambling to respond.

    From the point of view of a public transport user, the last 6 months as brought a revolution in public transport, with more excellent services been introduced then ever before:

    - Fast (3 hours), cheap, hourly, 24 hour, direct bus service to Cork (with excellent stops at Dublin Airport) with possibly another service coming soon.
    - Fast, cheap, hourly, 15 hour a day, direct bus service to Limerick
    - Fast, cheap, hourly, 24 hour, direct bus service to Belfast (with excellent stops at Dublin Airport)
    - Faster direct Galway -> Limerick -> Cork service.

    And as a result, in response to this we are getting:

    - BE services to Belfast, Cork and Waterford being improved and made faster and with shinny new buses.
    - Irish Rail dropping their ticket prices in half :eek:
    - Irish Rail coming up with ways to reduce their journey times.
    - IR and BE introducing free wifi across most of their fleets.

    This competition is the best thing that has ever happened to the public transport user :D
    There are no shiny new buses going to Waterford and certainly no WiFi! The timetable has been butchered and was a lot better before when Naas, Kilcullen and Castledermot were served! The old times allowed 90 minutes to get to Carlow and not that Naas, Kilcullen and Castledermot have been removed the times have been increased by at least 5 minutes!

    If the bus travels at normal motorway speed for most of the journey along the motorway it will arrive into Carlow approximately 20minutes early adn will have to wait in Carlow for that time, this is unacceptable but the response from the clowns in Bus Eireann is to drop the speed back to just over 80Kph on the motorway.

    The trains are a lot better than they were but are not suitable for everyone and the times are not acceptable considering it stops 2KM from Dublin City, also the Waterford train is regularly held up for upwards of 10 minutes in or near Kildare to let late trains pass it and travel unhindered into Heuston while the passengers from Waterford and Carlow put up with being treated like sh1t by both Irish Rail and bus Eireann.

    also the reductions to the train fares are only temporary and come with conditions as well as charges for booking online.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,684 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Jeez, what does it matter who provides the service as long as there is one. The point about not wanting to use a private operator or Irish Rail because they are not Bus Eireann is ridiculousness taken to a new level.. there is a service there and most people couldn't care less who ran it and if you do you are in the minority and are being very picky.

    In relation to the Cork to Dublin Route, Aircoach brought in an 8pm service to Cork and a 1.00am service to Dublin in November, but this was the only development with such service for a long while and the Bus Eireann and Aircoach timetables have, I agree been the same for many years but to say there is a cartel between state and private operators is the most silly thing I've read on here in a long time. I can't imagine Aircoach and Bus Eireann are best of friends.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,984 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    foggy_lad you maybe right about the Waterford service, I'm not familiar with it, but I'm right about the improvements that have come or are coming in all other services.

    devnull, I wasn't suggesting a cartel between BE and Aircoach. Rather a cartel between BE and IR.

    However I do believe Aircoach were happy enough not to compete too aggressively with BE. But their hand was forced by the upcoming entry of GoBus.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 264 ✭✭eejoynt


    bk wrote: »
    foggy_lad you maybe right about the Waterford service, I'm not familiar with it, but I'm right about the improvements that have come or are coming in all other services.

    devnull, I wasn't suggesting a cartel between BE and Aircoach. Rather a cartel between BE and IR.

    However I do believe Aircoach were happy enough not to compete too aggressively with BE. But their hand was forced by the upcoming entry of GoBus.

    for a moderator - who should have some knowledge of the law of defamation-you are making multiple accusations of criminal activity
    hope the site has libel insurance


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭munchkin_utd


    bk wrote: »
    <snip>
    devnull, I wasn't suggesting a cartel between BE and Aircoach. Rather a cartel between BE and IR.
    <snip>
    if ONLY there was more cooperation between these 2 sister companies (or rail + private bus companies) then you'd have much better connections around the country to get you to where you want to go.
    unfortunately longer journeys in Ireland are deliberately made unattractive through the fact that the Rail Network is like some sort of parallel universe that successfully manages to remain unattached in general to any useful local bus services.

    Ballina being a prime example of a town whose main national public transport link is via (highly subsidised by the taxpayer to the tune of 100s of thousands if not millions per year) rail connection to a station on one side of town - with a reasonable network of local busses leaving from the other side of town completely separate and unconnected.

    Now, if I were a taxpayer I'd absolutely want Bus Eireann (and other private busses) to supply as MANY passengers as possible to that rail link as then you'd need to be paying less subsidy.
    If I were living in the Ballina hinterland, I'd want the same.
    But pervertedly, neither the taxpayer nor customer matters because you have to avoid a Cartel, or the appearance of one, or the possibility of a suggestion of the appearance of one.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 280 ✭✭coolperson05


    I feel the new timetable is a joke. What's the point of direct services at 2.30am...what about 9am when there's no train from Waterford? An alternate Direct/Stopping arrangement every second bus?

    And the return buses have none of the direct services...It baffles me, just when Bus Eireann could over take Kavanaghs on this route.

    And if ever there was a service that deserves the Double Decker buses at peak times (Mainly for Carlow commuters, it's this). I must go get my Train....

    <SNIP>


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭munchkin_utd


    I feel the new timetable is a joke. What's the point of direct services at 2.30am...what about 9am when there's no train from Waterford? An alternate Direct/Stopping arrangement every second bus?
    <SNIP>
    the point of a bus at 2.30 is so you get to the airport in time for the DOZENS of early morning flights leaving Dublin airport.
    From 6am on theres that many flights that the airport operates 2 runways for the morning rush only. This is because AerLingus and Ryanair have the vast majority of their planes in Dublin so their first run of the day for all these aircraft is the crack of dawn. The 2.30 bus goes to the airport and is a fantastic service for the people of Waterford/ Kilkenny/ Carlow. Maybe you never leave Ireland and flying is an alien concept to you, but for folks like myself living abroad where often the only flight IS the one at 6.30 in the morning such a bus service saves us on the extra cost of a hotel for the night in order to make the flight-

    being sarchastic but truthful...
    That there is no bus at 9am is also a great sign that there is absolutely no cartel operating between the 2 CIE transport companies in bridging the gap between the morning rail departures. Them operating similar schedules also proves without doubt that they are fulfilling their obligation to appear to be in competition with each other. :rolleyes:

    NOW....... YOU might think that them working together in tapering services/ schedules might of benefit to the public ?
    Thats not the job of CIE. Its not for them to provide the best transport SYSTEM incorporating rail and bus working together in a meaningful way.

    (my take on the matter is that) Its job is primarily to run a pallette of rail and bus services without getting sued by private companies or the EU for running a cartel. Anything more than that is just a happy accident.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    the point of a bus at 2.30 is so you get to the airport in time for the DOZENS of early morning flights leaving Dublin airport.
    Kavanaghs already had this more than adequately covered, why duplicate services?
    That there is no bus at 9am is also a great sign that there is absolutely no cartel operating between the 2 CIE transport companies in bridging the gap between the morning rail departures. Them operating similar schedules also proves without doubt that they are fulfilling their obligation to appear to be in competition with each other. :rolleyes:
    Many of the train times from Waterford and Carlow during the day are the same as the bus times so how useful is suggesting the train is an addittional service when it runs at the same time
    NOW....... YOU might think that them working together in tapering services/ schedules might of benefit to the public ?
    Thats not the job of CIE. Its not for them to provide the best transport SYSTEM incorporating rail and bus working together in a meaningful way.

    (my take on the matter is that) Its job is primarily to run a pallette of rail and bus services without getting sued by private companies or the EU for running a cartel. Anything more than that is just a happy accident.
    God love them and hopefully they wont be sued too often then but it would not be too hard for all those heavily salaried managerial staff to operate both the railway and the Bus Company in an efficient manner that actually provides a good Value For Money Service to passengers!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 280 ✭✭coolperson05


    Thanks for your sarcastic reply munchkin_utd. I do actually fly believe it or not, and my point was not against at 2.30 service, which I have often gotten to visit friends abroad. It was why is this direct and the 9.00 not? Surely the benefits of the motorway would be experience much more during day time traffic? There should be more direct services IN ADDITION to the present services.

    And I totally agree with foggylad, the at 11, 1 and 3 a bus and train both leave Waterford. Why not train at 10, bus at 11, train at 12?? And both modes of transport experience good solid patronage meaning that staggered times (and stopping patterns - particularly for Irish Rail) would ensure efficient use of each transport mode.


  • Site Banned Posts: 5,904 ✭✭✭parsi


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    having gaps of three hours between peak time services is just not good enough for people who decide for whatever reason not to take the train or private operator! bus Eireann should either provide the service or hand the route over entirely to private operators who will do a much better job IMHO.

    This is nonsense. If between all operators a route has a full suite of services the who cares who provides the services ?

    Seems good that between the train, the BE bus and the private any paying customer can get a service at a time that suits.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,337 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    NOW....... YOU might think that them working together in tapering services/ schedules might of benefit to the public ?
    Thats not the job of CIE. Its not for them to provide the best transport SYSTEM incorporating rail and bus working together in a meaningful way.

    (my take on the matter is that) Its job is primarily to run a pallette of rail and bus services without getting sued by private companies or the EU for running a cartel. Anything more than that is just a happy accident.
    smileyvault-cute-big-smiley-animated-024.gif

    Look at what happened on South Wexford - the "replacement" bus services were routed to BE's hub at the Quay, not IE's hub at the Station.

    The reality is that public transport competition as interpreted through the unholy looking glasses that are "EU Directives" and "the Legacy of the Progressive Democrats" is that a truly integrated structure can't be formed out of CIE. This is why I would like to see IE (when split into a separate train operating company) go its own way and ally with one or more private bus operators to extend the reach of the network in a manner which doesn't trigger a market share issue.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,917 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Dowlingm - extensive reasearch by the NTA concluded that all of the passengers on that train were going either to the city or the WIT.

    There was not (and still isn't) a single train for over 2.5 hours after the bus arrived into Waterford.

    Why would you serve the station for non-existent rail services? If there was a train to connect into I would understand your point, but there wasn't. The bus goes where the people using it want to go.

    Hopefully when the full complement of ICRs are rolled out an additional train will be introduced around 9am ex-Waterford.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,754 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    The trains are a lot better than they were but are not suitable for everyone and the times are not acceptable considering it stops 2KM from Dublin City, also the Waterford train is regularly held up for upwards of 10 minutes in or near Kildare to let late trains pass it and travel unhindered into Heuston while the passengers from Waterford and Carlow put up with being treated like sh1t by both Irish Rail and bus Eireann.

    Couldn't agree more but I have spoken to Irish Rail about this and the 14.30 from Cork is now not allowed to go ahead of the 14.50 form Waterford unless there is a delay to the service. It now stops at Cherryville until Waterford service passes and it prety much speed restricted until the Waterford service departs Newbridge before both services can do 100 mph. Before is the Cork train was running 10-15 mins late they kept the Waterford train there until it passed.

    Over all the Waterford service is catering for faster journey times for other services which is why almost all trains serve Nass/Newbridge/Kildare and there could be at least 10 mins knock off all services. Thomsontown could see half the trains dropped form stopping there as well as a passing loop reinstated which would give greater flexablity to cross services. Its a wast of time stopping there and then passengers who do get on there travel for free unless there is a ticket checker onboard which is rare. 5 mins stoped in stations is not acceptable either and then the lifiting of speed restrictions and it being back a few weeks lather.

    Rant over...

    foggy_lad if you keep getting onto IR they will do something about it but they need to be reminded more than once.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 280 ✭✭coolperson05


    Totally agree...Stops on the Waterford service could be drastically changed. I know Kilkenny slows it down a lot but there's no reason to be stopping after Athy for the services that do. There's lots of commuter trains. The other day in Heuston 3 trains left within 20mins all stopping at Newbridge. Would also help the problems with Cork services waiting behind Waterford trains. Then the train would totally overtake the bus in terms of popularity...the present 10euro tickets and student return have done wonders.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭munchkin_utd


    Thanks for your sarcastic reply munchkin_utd. I do actually fly believe it or not, and my point was not against at 2.30 service, which I have often gotten to visit friends abroad. It was why is this direct and the 9.00 not? Surely the benefits of the motorway would be experience much more during day time traffic? There should be more direct services IN ADDITION to the present services.
    Why?
    You have a heap of trains at the cost of millions of subsidy a year.
    You have a free motorway.
    And in addition to those choices, you have some busses which are focused on providing a service to Dublin airport.
    And this from the county with the third lowest population in ireland.
    Where is the demand for MORE public transport from Carlow going to come from?

    the only solution i can see for you to get more frequent busses is to close the rail line with its near bi hourly trains of capacity of approx 500 pax a go in favour of lots of busses (holding 55 pax a go) as a replacement.
    Is that what you would prefer?

    To be honest. for the taxpayer it'd be cheaper by miles to shut the rail line and give Carlow the frequent bus service that you really really think is what is needed.
    So, are we REALLY saying that the rail line to carlow should be scrapped in favour of more frequent bus services, because thats pretty much the only way you will fill those busses?

    Or is the current bus eireann timetable actually not really that bad after all?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 280 ✭✭coolperson05


    Well I'm not from Carlow, I'm from Waterford which is the fifth biggest city also near to Kilkenny, another major population centre.

    And I'm suggesting better use of the services there. I just posted about that more efficient use of the train service with regard to stops and timings would mean Bus Eireann could alter/cut back. As I mentioned, trains and buses leaving at identical times are of little use considering the duplication of stops.

    And with reference to the motorway comment, I was always in favour of a better train service (which would have been cheaper) as opposed to a motorway...and also, it is built now.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Why are buses which are now going practically non-stop to carlow taking longer than they did previously when they stopped in Naas, Kilcullen and Castledermot? The journey to carlow can be done safely in about 75 minutes but there was still 5 minutes added to the timetable to allow 95 minutes to Carlow when it was changed.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,337 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    lxflyer - what the NTA should have told IE as a condition of closing South Wexford is to reposition the Rosslare 2700 within the Waterford network, for example to form a Clonmel-Waterford commuter morning/evening service and improving frequency in the Waterford-Carlow(-Kildare) corridor in between, starting with a 9am northbound. Nobody's saying the bus couldn't terminate at WIT etc but the stop at the train station retained and onward services provided.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    The latest press release from Bus Eireann claims they are reducing the journey times between Waterford and the Airport by 30 minutes! What absolute nonsense!

    http://www.buseireann.ie/news.php?id=1098&month=Jun

    New timetable

    Old Timetable
    Bus Éireann is pleased to announce an enhanced Route 4 Expressway service operating via the M9 motorway resulting in quicker journey times to and from Waterford, Dublin city, and Dublin Airport. Times are quicker on the timetable only! they will not be quicker on the road! Buses leaving Waterford are currently up to 15 minutes late getting to Carlow and now the numpties have reduced that journey time by a further 10 minutes!

    The enhanced Expressway Route 4 Waterford-Dublin-Dublin Airport service will provide the fastest coach service from Waterford city to Dublin Airport with a journey time of just 3 hours. The improved service, which begins on Sunday, 17 June, will reduce journey times by up to 30 minutes for customers travelling from Waterford to Dublin and Dublin Airport. They neglect to say these three buses go via Kilkenny and cut out all stops between Carlow and Waterford to achieve the time saving but leaving all passengers between carlow and Waterford with No way of getting to the Airport using Bus Eireann! This is just a way of rolling back on the last timetable change as Bus Eireann are finding numbers on the overnight services are very low!

    Expressway Route 4 will operate six times a day (Monday to Sunday) from Waterford and 9 times a day from Dublin Airport/Dublin city (Monday to Sunday). It only operates 8 times a day from Dublin airport Monday-Sunday, the 9am bus does not operate at weekends nor does the 5am X4 from Waterford!

    Bus Éireann is also introducing a new limited stop service, X4, which provides a journey time of just 2 hours 50 minutes between Waterford and Dublin Airport. The X4, which also begins on Sunday, 17 June, uses the M9 motorway and operates direct from Waterford to Kilkenny city, direct from Kilkenny city to Carlow, and direct from Carlow to Newslands Cross and from there direct to Dublin Airport.Only the 2.30am service operates direct from Newlands Cross to the Airport! all other services go via Heuston Station the City Centre and Busáras

    An early morning service in Waterford at 02:30 arriving in Dublin Airport at 05:00 for customers catching early flights will also operate from Sunday, 17 June. This is already included in the three X4 services, Claiming it is Extra is wrong.

    Expressway Route X4 will operate three times a day from Waterford one way (Monday to Sunday) to Kilkenny city, direct from Kilkenny city to Carlow, and direct from Carlow to Newslands Cross and from there direct to Dublin Airport. More mis-infiormation and lies, It only operates twice a day Monday-Sunday

    These improved services will provide customers with increased connections between Waterford, Kilkenny, Carlow, Dublin city and Dublin Airport. All services to and from Waterford (Monday to Sunday) will now operate via the M9. While cutting off passengers from all the stops between Carlow and Waterford! Also the claim that all services to and from waterford will operate via the M9 is rubbish as they already use the M9 as far as Carlow and ONLY the X4 services will be using the M9 between Carlow and Kilkenny and on to Waterford!

    “These new enhanced services are being introduced in response to customer feedback for shorter journey times travelling from Waterford to Dublin and Dublin Airport. The revised Route 4 Expressway service will not only deliver a better travelling experience for our regular passengers, but for the people of Waterford as it provides them with convenient, quick and affordable access to Dublin city and Dublin Airport,” said Gerry Madden, Services Manager, South East, Bus Éireann. People want a shorter time from Waterford and Carlow to Dublin during the day, instead of spending several minutes and dangerous maneuvers trying to get into the narrow roads in the Red Cow Luas park and ride stop!

    The changes to the Expressway Route 4 have been sanctioned by the National Transport Authority (NTA).

    For further details, please visit www.buseireann.ie or contact your local Bus Éireann travel centre on (051) 879000.

    Friday, 15th June, 2012


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 280 ✭✭coolperson05


    Also, wouldn't daytime X4 services provide (for the first time) PROPER commuter links between Waterford Carlow and Kilkenny for the hundreds of students in Waterford & Carlow and workers in Kilkenny?! That would have made lots of sense...
    (Considering the first train into Waterford arrives at 9.45 - an hour after normal commute arrival times)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Also, wouldn't daytime X4 services provide (for the first time) PROPER commuter links between Waterford Carlow and Kilkenny for the hundreds of students in Waterford & Carlow and workers in Kilkenny?! That would have made lots of sense...
    (Considering the first train into Waterford arrives at 9.45 - an hour after normal commute arrival times)
    There is no Bus from Waterford or Carlow that gets into Dublin before 9am, there should be a 6am service serving all stops except kilkenny which is already served by the 7.

    There is also no bus that gets to Waterford before 10am!

    Back to the timings on the new timetable it appears that like the X20 Galway limited stop service which is usually about 30 minutes late this new timetable will be impossible to keep to on the road!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 280 ✭✭coolperson05


    I know! I have to get the 6am train because CIE and the Government have decided all the jobs are in Dublin too!! It is ridiculous that there's no service south before 9am for Waterford City (pop. 46,732), Kilkenny City and County (pop. 95,419) and Carlow (pop. 54,612).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    I know! I have to get the 6am train because CIE and the Government have decided all the jobs are in Dublin too!! It is ridiculous that there's no service south before 9am for Waterford City (pop. 46,732), Kilkenny City and County (pop. 95,419) and Carlow (pop. 54,612).
    If people boycotted their services they would soon realise the value of their Sunny Southeast passengers


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,140 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    If people boycotted their services they would soon realise the value of their Sunny Southeast passengers

    no they wouldn't, they want rid of us altogether. they hate waterford carlow, and especially wexford in IE's case, BE provide a good level of service or at least they did, just a shame theirs no non-stop service, or maybe a private operator is doing one but i haven't heard so i don't know.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,140 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    dowlingm wrote: »
    lxflyer - what the NTA should have told IE as a condition of closing South Wexford is to reposition the Rosslare 2700 within the Waterford network, for example to form a Clonmel-Waterford commuter morning/evening service and improving frequency in the Waterford-Carlow(-Kildare) corridor in between, starting with a 9am northbound.
    that would make sense but as IE want to close the limerick junction waterford line and as they don't want the custom from areas along it they would find a way not to do such a thing and the NTA would bend over forwards (sorry bend over backwards) to accommodate them. maybe if they had provided some sort of meaningful and useable service on the rosslare waterford line and told people about it maybe just maybe the usership would have gone up. but i suppose they had to find a way to provide the money for the 1 passenger on the WRC and as they hate county wexford so much it was obvious that rosslare waterford would be the first line to go. theirs also the alan kelly bullit train to pay for now as well.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    I suppose I may be a bit harsh on Bus Eireann but I just can't understand how they are going to cut 10 minutes off the Waterford to Carlow stretch when that section usually takes longer than the time already allowed. they could easily take that time and more from the Dublin to Carlow section and remove that pointless and dangerous stop at the luas park and ride, it adds nothing only a fear of accidents and time wasted to the journey.

    There are also a few spots in the timetable that need some tweaking like having a three hour gap ex Waterford between 3pm and 6pm so there is NO peak time service to cater for anyone working in Carlow for the day.

    The timetable could have been done better by a few of the drivers on the route who know what their passengers want and when buses are required but afaik they were not even consulted about the original new timetable and this latest revision/damage limitation exercise.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,140 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    almost all trains serve Nass/Newbridge
    why? these stations could be served perfectly by commuter services no need for long distance services to stop there. killdare i would agree, run commuters to killdare stop the long distance services there and let the commuter trains provide connections to the stations between there and dublin. all though i suppose as the KRP doesn't go as far as killdare or probably newbridge and naaz it would probably make sense to stop trains there?

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 280 ✭✭coolperson05


    Well I'm getting it Tues so it'll be interesting to see how they'll do Waterford to Carlow in 70mins...when the express service on the motorway takes the same time apparently. :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,140 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    The timetable could have been done better by a few of the drivers on the route who know what their passengers want and when buses are required but afaik they were not even consulted about the original new timetable and this latest revision/damage limitation exercise.

    consulting the drivers would mean the people who do the timetables would be seen to not have a clue which they don't, it would also make sense because the drivers who actually work on the ground unlike those doing the timetables would know how many are getting on their busses so therefore its not going to happen.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    why? these stations could be served perfectly by commuter services no need for long distance services to stop there. killdare i would agree, run commuters to killdare stop the long distance services there and let the commuter trains provide connections to the stations between there and dublin. all though i suppose as the KRP doesn't go as far as killdare or probably newbridge and naaz it would probably make sense to stop trains there?
    The commuter service only goes to Kildare on a few trains daily due to not having any siding or separate platform to keep it while the other long distance trains stop in Kildare, that means that most trains also stop at Newbridge or will stop at Newbridge instead of Kildare, The system as it is does work ok for passengers going to the commuter stations as they never have too long to wait for a commuter train once they stop at Kildare or Newbridge.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    consulting the drivers would mean the people who do the timetables would be seen to not have a clue which they don't, it would also make sense because the drivers who actually work on the ground unlike those doing the timetables would know how many are getting on their busses so therefore its not going to happen.
    I was told by someone in BE that the latest timetables were being produced by some outside company who are using some computer program and feeding all the ticketing and other passenger data into it and it shlts spits out a timetable.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    I was told by someone in BE that the latest timetables were being produced by some outside company who are using some computer program and feeding all the ticketing and other passenger data into it and it shlts spits out a timetable.

    Probably the same crowd who brought a whoopee doopee programme called Q-Data to Dublin Bus,which,in turn,led to Network Direct Phase 1...now acknowledged worldwide as THE most succcessfuly succesful Phase thing ever to come from the successful Phase shop......:(


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    Probably the same crowd who brought a whoopee doopee programme called Q-Data to Dublin Bus,which,in turn,led to Network Direct Phase 1...now acknowledged worldwide as THE most succcessfuly succesful Phase thing ever to come from the successful Phase shop......:(
    ah but these things have a habit of working very well for one situation but not working at all for other similar situations, Bus Eireann operations and passengers are very different to Dublin Bus and passengers have very different needs and expectations.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 89 ✭✭Dublin Spotter


    foggy_lad

    Barry Kenny was on da radio in Waterford today saying what a great service Carlow and Waterford passengers have. A journey time of two hours, gone from 4 to 8 daily services in a few years, reduced tickets and Wifi coming this year. Think he forgot about the lack of Sunday serviecs as there is mainly only standing room only from Kilkenny onwords and only 4 services. I highly dought you will agree as I am not a regular user and I don't agree at all...

    He makes it sound like a wonderdul line and all trains take 2 hours. There is a like over on RUI website.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    What feckin planet is he on with his two hours from Waterford to Dublin? Maybe possible on the motorway bit not by train, not even with a good strong southeasterly behind it


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,140 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    What feckin planet is he on with his two hours from Waterford to Dublin? Maybe possible on the motorway bit not by train, not even with a good strong southeasterly behind it
    don't worry, nobody believes his spin and lies anyway. what worries me is that he seems to actually believe what he is saying is true.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words.



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