A Few Questions

MetzgerMeister · 23-05-2012 7:55pm #1

Hi all,

Since I will have a bit of money to spare, I was thinking about buying either a .22 or an air rifle. I will use it mainly for shooting rabbits and vermin in the fields around my house.

The extent of my firearms experience is clay pigeon shooting where I used a Beretta shotgun. I have also been into airsoft for quite some time and I know it's quite a bit different!

I don't have any experience with .22 rifles or air rifles and my questions are as follows:

What is the best option to go for with regards my purpose?

I presume I need a licence for both?

Cheers!

kildare.17hmr · 23-05-2012 8:13pm

Both will give you plenty of trigger time for very little money but a decent air rifle will set you back a good bit more than a 22lr. Id be more leaning towards a 22 as it will give you more range and is a "real gun". Air rofles have their place but what you discribe a 22 is your man!

A 2nd hand cz could be got for €400 or less with some searching with scope and will last a lifetime

hedzball · 23-05-2012 8:31pm

Brand new winchester .22 with a 5shot mag and 3 ten shot mags for 300 quid iirc

'hdz

kildare.17hmr · 23-05-2012 8:40pm

hedzball wrote: »

Brand new winchester .22 with a 5shot mag and 3 ten shot mags for 300 quid iirc

'hdz

Thats a great deal, where was that lad?

dev110 · 23-05-2012 9:02pm

If you don't have a gun license already you will/might have to do a competency course to get the rifle license.

You should look at a S/H .22. Plenty out there and they are a great rifle.

Erk · 23-05-2012 9:31pm

Should try Sean as i seen your from Thurles. He has a package a Puma .22 with scope and mounts and 5 shot mag and it comes threaded for €300ish i think.

kildare.17hmr · 23-05-2012 9:34pm

They are a class little rifle, got one for my oul lad in jan and cant fault it at all

MetzgerMeister · 23-05-2012 9:46pm

Thanks for the replies guys!

Dev - you mentioned a competency course. What does that involve?

dev110 · 23-05-2012 9:56pm

This is where you will be brought through all safety aspects like backstops, when not to shoot, etc. I think you will be brought through basic operations of firearms.

I never had to do one as had a shotgun and rifle before they came in. Someone who has done one will be able explain it better

German pointer · 23-05-2012 10:18pm

Erk wrote: »

Should try Sean as i seen your from Thurles. He has a package a Puma .22 with scope and mounts and 5 shot mag and it comes threaded for €300ish i think.

I looked at the Puma ( a cheap China copy of the CZ ) but thought it was a piece of siht 2 or 3 different ones had a porblem closing the bolt at the recieiver for where the bolt handle turns down did not have enough clearnce. There is a reason why they are only €300ish.:eek::eek:

Go the extra few bob and get a CZ new or second hand and it will last you a lifetime;);)

German pointer · 23-05-2012 10:20pm

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

Thanks for the replies guys!

Dev - you mentioned a competency course. What does that involve?

A half a day or so on a clay range should do it. Cost not sure of as the lad that did my one gave me a deal on it:D:D

Erk · 23-05-2012 10:29pm

My course took 5-6 weeks :O Every Thursday but bad weather then.. Know of a guy that comes to your house and does it there and then takes about 2-3 hours is all. is 25-35 euro i think.

hedzball · 23-05-2012 10:42pm

Erk wrote: »

My course took 5-6 weeks :O Every Thursday but bad weather then.. Know of a guy that comes to your house and does it there and then takes about 2-3 hours is all. is 25-35 euro i think.

jesus !!

I did mine in 45minutes for 30 quid..

there was 7 of us lol

'hdz

MetzgerMeister · 23-05-2012 10:45pm

And with regards getting a licence, what are the requirements? Gun case, land to shoot on etc.?

Witcher · 23-05-2012 10:48pm

Try do a rifle specific course that has some range time, it's worth it. You'll need to have a safe installed and have land to shoot on, usually 2 farmer's permission or join a gun club if there's one in the locality.

Vegeta · 23-05-2012 10:50pm

What I will say for them, is that air rifles can be shot skywards and a .22lr cannot. I have a .22lr and my old man has a PCP air rifle. The air rifle has definitely accounted for more mags and grey crows than the .22lr

I personally think the high power multi-shot PCP rifles are a more rounded tool than a .22lr. Use around a farm yard and buildings, take shots into trees, still kill rabbits at 60 yards. Best triggers I have ever used are in air rifles too. They are generally really well balanced and weighted for standing, kneeling or sitting shots.

If majority of shooting is rabbits, the .22lr is the better tool. No question.

What does go against the air rifles is price.

MetzgerMeister · 23-05-2012 10:51pm

Blay wrote: »

Try do a rifle specific course that has some range time, it's worth it. You'll need to have a safe installed and have land to shoot on, usually 2 farmer's permission or join a gun club if there's one in the locality.

Any idea on the cost of a safe? Will this all be checked out by a Garda before I get a licence? I always found it funny that you have to buy the gun before you can apply for the licence.

Witcher · 23-05-2012 10:53pm

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

Any idea on the cost of a safe? Will this all be checked out by a Garda before I get a licence? I always found it funny that you have to buy the gun before you can apply for the licence.

Depends how much you want to spend, but I'll say this, get as big a safe as you can afford that has good depth or you'll have to turn a scoped rifle sideways and take up loads of space. Well you don't actually buy the gun, you leave a deposit on it with a RFD and they give you a receipt for it.:)

MetzgerMeister · 23-05-2012 10:58pm

Blay wrote: »

Depends how much you want to spend, but I'll say this, get as big a safe as you can afford that has good depth or you'll have to turn a scoped rifle sideways and take up loads of space. Well you don't actually buy the gun, you leave a deposit on it with a RFD and they give you a receipt for it.:)

Do the bullets have to be kept in a separate room? I wouldn't mind the fact that a scoped rifle would take up room as that is all I will be keeping in the safe.

Vegeta · 23-05-2012 11:00pm

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

Any idea on the cost of a safe? Will this all be checked out by a Garda before I get a licence? I always found it funny that you have to buy the gun before you can apply for the licence.

You'd easily get a safe for 100 quid and probably a little better if you watch out for second hand on the for sale section here.

There is a section on the FCA1 form asking if you meet the security requirements. So a Garda may come out and inspect the safe but even if they don't you have to meet the requirements or you'll be lying on the form, which is an offence itself.

Yeah you can buy the gun and own it, but not possess it until you get the license.

Witcher · 23-05-2012 11:03pm

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

Do the bullets have to be kept in a separate room? I wouldn't mind the fact that a scoped rifle would take up room as that is all I will be keeping in the safe.

That's what I thought too...don't worry the hankering for another gun will soon take over:pac:

There's no specific regulations on the ammunition being stored with the gun to my knowledge, some people have a seperate smaller safe for their ammunition and their rifle bolts etc. and others will just keep it in the safe, once it's secure you're ok. Consider removing the bolt from the rifle though and keeping that elsewhere, just makes things more secure.

Vegeta · 23-05-2012 11:05pm

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

Do the bullets have to be kept in a separate room?

You can be asked for additional security, if for example you live in a high crime area. So while not a standard request it's not impossible for this to be requested.

MetzgerMeister · 23-05-2012 11:06pm

I'm only a young lad so I don't think I'll be getting another gun until at least I have my own place. Plus I decided on either a .22 or airgun to keep the noise down as we have neighbours at both sides of the house and the fields extend beyond their houses too.

hedzball · 23-05-2012 11:53pm

I started with a .22

Then I got pissed off looking at crows

On came the 12 gauge

Then I got pissed off looking at Foxes

On came the 17hmr.

Then I got pissed off looking at goats and even more foxes!!

So I sold the hmr and looking into a centerfire..

Its never "1 gun"

'hdz

MetzgerMeister · 23-05-2012 11:59pm

Jesus, I dread the day you get an AK :pac:

If that's the case then I will sell the .22 before getting a new gun if I ever do. Same thing I do with cars

I recognise kildare17hmr from the motors forum and now I know where his username comes from

hedzball · 24-05-2012 12:16am

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

Jesus, I dread the day you get an AK :pac:

If that's the case then I will sell the .22 before getting a new gun if I ever do. Same thing I do with cars

I recognise kildare17hmr from the motors forum and now I know where his username comes from

He's from Kildare and shoots a 17hmr??

At a guess? :P

You'd be surprised.. you'll take to a .22 .. Push yourself with it.. start reading trajectory charts and push yourself even more..

I remember the day fellas told me a .22 is grand 50-80 yards..

Getting handy at hold over's taking bunnys in the head/neck at 130-140 yards..

Hitting steel plates at 200, thats around a 40 inch hold :rolleyes:

There the one gun everyone should have and most keep..

Remember to apply for a moderator.. That and subs and your neighbors wont even know your about..

'hdz

MetzgerMeister · 24-05-2012 9:13am

Right, what's a moderator and subs? I haven't a clue about shooting lingo

kildare.17hmr · 24-05-2012 9:20am

Silencer and sub sonic ammo (doesnt break sound barrier), when used together the gun is near completely silent!

BattleCorp · 26-05-2012 1:53am

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

Right, what's a moderator and subs? I haven't a clue about shooting lingo

Sorry if you know this already but from your posts, I am guessing that you don't know too much about guns.

A moderator is what they call a silencer in the movies. It's a small tube that screws onto the end of your .22 rifle and it reduces the noise from your rifle by a fair bit. (but it isn't silent, just quieter. It won't scare the animals as much.)

Subs are subsonic bullets. They travel slower than regular bullets and don't create as much noise. They are used in conjunction with moderators.

If you want a moderator, you should apply for it with your licence FAC1 form. When you get that far, come back to boards and ask for help filling it out. It's a fair lump of a form if you don't know what you are at. Also, if you want a moderator, make sure you buy a rifle that is threaded for one as this is much easier and cheaper than trying to get it threaded afterwards.

You will need the safe in advance of buying the gun too, as the Gardai might come out and look for it. Plus you will have to state on the FAC1 form that you have one, so if you don't have one and say you have, you'll be lying on the application form and that won't go down well if you are caught.

MetzgerMeister · 26-05-2012 9:16am

Thanks BattleCorp! I've always known what a silencer is but I never heard it referred to as a moderator. Same goes for sub sonic bullets, never heard them called subs! To me, both those words had more to do with boards.ie than guns

Thanks to everyone here for their help! I will be going .22 but when I will get it is another question. At least I've made a start!

2 more questions - Why can't a .22 be shot towards the sky and a rather stupid one in your eyes but why does one need a licence for a moderator?

Witcher · 26-05-2012 11:21am

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

2 more questions - Why can't a .22 be shot towards the sky and a rather stupid one in your eyes but why does one need a licence for a moderator?

Well the bullet is going to come down somewhere and you have no idea what or who its going to hit when it does so always use a solid backstop.

Because they're classified as firearms in their own right, its not a licence you get, you tick the box on the FCA1 form and if you have good reason you get the 'S' on your licence:)

tac foley · 26-05-2012 11:37am

Let's not overlook the warning that used to be printed on every box of .22 rimfire ammunition - 'Dangerous at one mile'.

Also, NOT good to shoot over open water, or any kind of water to tell the truth - ricochets will go on for ever, and it would be just real bad luck to connect with another person or animal that was in the way.

A few years ago over in the USA, a woman driver simply veered off the north-bound freeway adjacent to a lake and some small islands that were actually part of Canadian territory. Paramedics arriving on the scene found her dead over the wheel for no apparent reason. Back at the county morgue, the ME found that she had been shot in the head by a .303cal bullet that had entered, unseen, under the hairline, the bullet having passed through the open window while she was driving at around sixty miles an hour or so.

It took a long investigation to establish that the bullet had come from the rifle of a Canadian hunter on an island almost two miles away from the unfortunate woman, and that the bullet had travelled across the water after missing its intended target.

tac

MetzgerMeister · 26-05-2012 12:03pm

Thanks lads. Surely a pellet from an air rifle could do a fair amount of damage if shot towards the sky?

Is there any chance you guys could give me a few tips on safety and maintenance of a .22? I will google it too but would also like to get your opinions.

The main thing that comes to mind with regard to safety is while shooting in fields, not to shoot straight ahead unless there is a mound of earth or something that will have a good chance at stopping a bullet. I know this is always the case but anyway!

Never aim the gun at anything unless you intend on killing it.

Never load the gun until you are in the hunting area.

Keep bullets secure in a bag and not in a pants pocket or anywhere on your person.

Always be aware of ricochets and don't aim at something that the bullet has any chance of ricocheting off i.e. a tree.

Never run with a loaded gun :pac:

Always carry the gun "broken" until you get to the hunting area.

These are all off the top of my head, some are obvious, yes but safe nonetheless.

German pointer · 26-05-2012 4:28pm

Witcher · 26-05-2012 5:15pm

If you do the NRA Basic rifle course it will cover every aspect of safety and will show how to clean the rifle etc. I *think* there's only one place in Ireland doing it though.

hedzball · 27-05-2012 11:57am

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

Thanks lads. Surely a pellet from an air rifle could do a fair amount of damage if shot towards the sky?

Is there any chance you guys could give me a few tips on safety and maintenance of a .22? I will google it too but would also like to get your opinions.

The main thing that comes to mind with regard to safety is while shooting in fields, not to shoot straight ahead unless there is a mound of earth or something that will have a good chance at stopping a bullet. I know this is always the case but anyway!

Never aim the gun at anything unless you intend on killing it.

Never load the gun until you are in the hunting area.

Keep bullets secure in a bag and not in a pants pocket or anywhere on your person.

No need. They wont "go off" in your pants pocket..

Always be aware of ricochets and don't aim at something that the bullet has any chance of ricocheting off i.e. a tree.

Be doing well to ricochet off a tree.. Think stone and water.. things with immense surface tension..

Never run with a loaded gun :pac:
Shouldn't be running with a gun full stop.. Or hunting ever..

Always carry the gun "broken" until you get to the hunting area.
Keeping the safety on/ bolt out is the equivalent of this

'hdz

garv123 · 27-05-2012 3:37pm

Your best way to learn about shooting and gun safety is to go out with someone and watch them.
I spend 3 years out with people shooting before i ever got my own licences. I learned a lot about shooting in that time..
Its the simply things you learn that are the important.

Few stuff I learned were

Never fire at anything on a ditch or in a ditch as you dont know whats behind it.
The safety only comes off the gun seconds before taking the shot
Always know where farm animals are before firing
Always ensure you have a secure backstop
Never take shots on the brow of a hill
Unless disassembled treat the gun as loaded
If you are lamping at night, never fire at a set of eyes, identify what it is before taking the shot

Another thing i picked up and copied from the lads I shoot with is I always walk around with the bolt pulled up and put it down before taking a shot.
This means that 3 things have to happen before the gun is fired by accident.

recipio · 27-05-2012 5:33pm

:rolleyes: I have this uneasy image of the OP setting out with a new .22 rifle.
The rules are there for all to see but there is no substitute for 'fieldcraft'.
.22 rounds stretch out to surprising distances - I once shot 'shorts' in a dry ploughed field and they kicked up dust at 400 yards.
Ancient guys like me learnt with an air rifle in the 60's and then progressed to a .22. It was a natural starter gun, now people are forced into using a firearm unless they deliberately opt for an airgun. All in all you are much safer with an air rifle and I'd go with one to begin with.

FISMA · 28-05-2012 4:30am

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

What is the best option to go for with regards my purpose?
I presume I need a licence for both?
Cheers!

Given the equally difficult time that you're going to have to go through to get either licensed, I would choose the 22lr.

If you want an auto - go with the Ruger 10/22
If you want a bolt - go with the CZ 452
If you want to have some fun, get a Henry Lever action golden boy. Cowboy hat is required.

MetzgerMeister · 28-05-2012 10:45am

recipio wrote: »

:rolleyes: I have this uneasy image of the OP setting out with a new .22 rifle.
The rules are there for all to see but there is no substitute for 'fieldcraft'.
.22 rounds stretch out to surprising distances - I once shot 'shorts' in a dry ploughed field and they kicked up dust at 400 yards.
Ancient guys like me learnt with an air rifle in the 60's and then progressed to a .22. It was a natural starter gun, now people are forced into using a firearm unless they deliberately opt for an airgun. All in all you are much safer with an air rifle and I'd go with one to begin with.

Just because I'm asking about the safest way to use a gun, you have an uneasy feeling about it? Yeah, that certainly makes sense :rolleyes:

recipio · 28-05-2012 11:40am

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

Just because I'm asking about the safest way to use a gun, you have an uneasy feeling about it? Yeah, that certainly makes sense :rolleyes:

I'm afraid when you ask questions about shooting into trees you betray your inexperience.
When I think about any novice ( not just you ) wandering the countryside with a lethal weapon I certainly feel uneasy. I've lived long enough to see a few near misses.
If you are set on a .22 rifle I'd get a bolt action which will cycle all ammo. Personally I use .22 short ammo for nearly all small game shooting as the gun does not need a moderator. However it is hard to find and you will probably end up using subs with a moderator, if your Super will allow.

kildare.17hmr · 28-05-2012 11:51am

Recipio, With respect the OP he has come here for advice and has asked alot of good questions, he sounds like he is willing to learn and wants to do things right including being safe. Many lads might decide to get a gun and never ask these questions and go out acting the maggot or doing silly things because they dont know any better and never bothered asking these questions but i highly doubt that will happen with the OP judging from this thread anyway. The rest is up to the guards to decide if he is suitable. I think your reaction is OTT and a bit of helpful advice would have been better

hedzball · 28-05-2012 1:18pm

recipio wrote: »

:rolleyes: I have this uneasy image of the OP setting out with a new .22 rifle.
The rules are there for all to see but there is no substitute for 'fieldcraft'.
.22 rounds stretch out to surprising distances - I once shot 'shorts' in a dry ploughed field and they kicked up dust at 400 yards.
Ancient guys like me learnt with an air rifle in the 60's and then progressed to a .22. It was a natural starter gun, now people are forced into using a firearm unless they deliberately opt for an airgun. All in all you are much safer with an air rifle and I'd go with one to begin with.

Are you his super??

'hdz

session savage · 29-05-2012 7:15am

I started with an air rifle. Then moved onto a .22.
I love my .22. Have shot greys and maggies at 150 and even one at 200yds. Its a brilliant firearm.... however, I am seriously considering trading it in for a good pcp (pre-charged pneumatic) air rifle. I never bother with my .22 anymore unless im shooting bunnies because i have a .223 but i think i would get much more use out of an air rifle cause i can go back to shooting grey squirrels from the trees!

If I were you I would go for an air rifle. At least until you get some experience. And and air rifle will do what you want and more.

PS Paul O Halloran in drangan would be worth a visit. only 20mins out the road from you.

Shooting Forum - Firearms licencing information

A Few Questions

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