Season 2 Episode 5 - Have NOT Read the Books

Talisman · 03-05-2012 2:09am

Arnold Layne wrote: »

Methinks, thou has dabbled in the ASOFIAF, ser

A Song Of Ice And Fire? I read the first book while watching the first series. I haven't gone near the second book and don't intend to until after the series is finished.

My observations are based purely on watching the tv show but having read the first book I have seen how plot lines can get compressed in the tv series. The dialogue in the tv show gives away a lot, X says something in episode 1 and Y happens in episode 3 - people who haven't read the book piece it together and think it's great because they filled in the blanks themselves. If you keep that in mind while watching the show things start to jump out - nearly every piece of dialogue/incident has a purpose.

For example in the case of Rob Stark he has promised to marry one of the daughters of Lord Frey(?) that was a condition for his army being allowed to cross the river. In one of the episodes in this series he meets a beauty on a battlefield of all places and he seems smitten with her. I don't think she was added to the cast for a cameo appearance - my money would be on Rob Stark repeating the sins of his father.

Another one that stood out for me is the girl that was married to Remly Baratheon said that she didn't want to be a queen, she wanted to be THE QUEEN. The girl has ambition, the only way she could be the queen is if she were married to a king and the only one of them that's hanging around at the moment is Joffrey. Conveniently he's not yet married to Sansa, who could be traded for Jamie Lannister - didn't Littlefinger say this to Catelyn Stark at the camp? Ambitious girl's group fled the camp before Stannis arrived and are considered his enemy. Tyrion Lannister is in the process of trying to shore up support for the Lannisters by marrying off Cersei's children. Her marrying Joffrey would make an alliance between two enemies of Stannis Baratheon.

I could be miles off but some of these potential plot lines seem to write themselves.

Others are still developing and have a story arc that presumably will span the entire series - these leave me with questions. e.g. Brann's dreams of being a direwolf/the three eyed crow. Is he seeing what the animal is seeing? Can he possess/control the animal? Does Daenerys have a similar connection to the dragons? From the conversations with Meera it seems obvious that as a Wildling she knows more about the old ways than Master Luwin who just dismisses the dreams.

03-05-2012 8:46am

I kind of regret not reading the books through before watching the series. I was halfway through the first book when I gave in to watching the series and from that amount I read you notice the amount they take out. I can only imagine what else has been left out. Saying that I still love the tv series, it's as addicting as crack.

Newaglish · 03-05-2012 10:15am

Talisman wrote: »

From the conversations with Meera it seems obvious that as a Wildling she knows more about the old ways than Master Luwin who just dismisses the dreams.

Busted. Meera is in the books, not in the TV show. We can all see through your surprisingly accurate predictions. Why would you even bother?

Mr E · 03-05-2012 11:04am

Spoilers added. Talisman - please move yourself over to the "Have read the books" threads.

mikemac1 · 03-05-2012 11:12am

Was also wondering what the best tactic North of the wall would be

Eliminate the lookouts and assassinate that leader
Or fall back to the wall and prepare to defend it

There are pros and cons to both which are pretty clear

The pressures of command I suppose, I don't know which is correct at the moment and that has me looking forward to next week

touts · 03-05-2012 11:13am

Talisman wrote: »

Surely the purpose of the dragons is to torch the armies/towns/castles etc. A dragon in full working order on a battle field would be absolutely devastating and terrify the **** out of the enemy. At present they aren't of much use and are simply trinkets.

Has it ever been said what killed the Dragons the last time around? Did they just die out or were they hunted down and killed. If it was the latter then they may not be such a mighty weapon that Danyirus (I think I fecked up that spelling) can just land in the Seven Kingdoms and be a real force in the war with just Three Dragons and her small band from the desert. She needs an army and that billionaire guy can buy her one.

barrybones_wx · 03-05-2012 11:19am

ive read the first four books - started after watching season 1 - and i'm kinda sad now cause of the fun you're all having watching season 2 pan out and guessing what happens next... sorta wish i hadn't read them now! Good luck with the guessing!

mikemac1 · 03-05-2012 11:28am

Talisman wrote: »

I watched the five episodes back to back - a bit of a head melter, I'm not sure what happened in what episode so forgive me if this is a bit all over the place.

Yet you post about Meera Reed

Why would you come in here and start dressing up those predictions as guesses?

Do you think the non-readers are impressed with your knowledge?

I wish I hadn't read your post

touts · 03-05-2012 11:32am

mikemac1 wrote: »

Was also wondering what the best tactic North of the wall would be

Eliminate the lookouts and assassinate that leader
Or fall back to the wall and prepare to defend it

There are pros and cons to both which are pretty clear

The pressures of command I suppose, I don't know which is correct at the moment and that has me looking forward to next week

When you consider the success of real life mighty walls like the Theodosian walls around Constantinople against really fierce armies like the Huns you would fancy the chances of a small group of men holding that wall against the largest army.

Add to that the fact that it was starvation and disease to those trapped within the walls that normally lead to a city falling and then remember that behind that walls is the almost endless resources of the Seven Kingdoms while "outside" the walls is a barren frozen wasteland I would fancy the Night's watch to hold out longer than an army of all the "Wildlings" combined.

Of course betrayal was also another reason why cities fell so it would be interesting to know more about why this King Mace defected from the Nights Watch and are there any others still in the Nights Watch that might be sympathetic to him.

So if it was me I would high tail it back to the wall and hang a "Come and knock us off if you think you can" banner over the top.

plastic glass · 03-05-2012 11:34am

mikemac1 wrote: »

Do you think the non-readers are impressed with your knowledge?

I wish I hadn't read your post

Me too. Was really enjoying this thread and its a place to go to see what other people were thinking about the tv episodes etc but that's twice in the space of a few days I have read stuff I did not want to know from the book readers. Don't really know what they are trying to achieve. I for one am out ( I won't be missed as was not really a contributor but was gearing up to be one ha ha)

mikemac1 · 03-05-2012 11:36am

mikemac1 wrote: »

Was also wondering what the best tactic North of the wall would be

Eliminate the lookouts and assassinate that leader
Or fall back to the wall and prepare to defend it

There are pros and cons to both which are pretty clear

The pressures of command I suppose, I don't know which is correct at the moment and that has me looking forward to next week

Well I know the answer now thanks to Talisman :rolleyes:

stesaurus · 03-05-2012 12:26pm

Talisman wrote: »

A Song Of Ice And Fire? I read the first book while watching the first series. I haven't gone near the second book and don't intend to until after the series is finished.

Are bans a possibility for this kind of stuff? When it's so blatantly obvious.

Absolute tosser. Zero chance he hasn't read all the books. The

Brotherhood

would have completely gone over tv viewers heads so far and

Meera

was the clincher. I could go on all day but unless he's done a dissertation on the show there's no way he could have gleamed so much exposition without 1st hand knowledge of the books.

I enjoy coming in here and reading speculation from all the non-readers and guys like above will just kill all that kind of discussion.

Oranage2 · 03-05-2012 12:33pm

mikemac1 wrote: »

Wildfire to burn an entire fleet?
I know this show doesn't do big battle scenes but that sounds incredible

Can't wait for next week

Though it's dangerous, you're as likely to kill yourself then the enemy with that wildfire.

There seems to be a lot of budget 'saving' this season with the lack of battle scenes and lack of extras so I reckon that's what they're saving for.

Also not accusing anyone of anything but what type of clown would post spoilers as guesses? Beggars belief!

mikemac1 · 03-05-2012 12:42pm

Seems a bit foolish to me if Stannis sails his fleet right into Kings Landing bay/harbour. I think they mentioned that

Absolutely the worst thing you could do with a wooden fleet is get it locked into a bottleneck
I can see the catapults surrounding the bay raining down wildfire already :eek:

Would be wiser I think to land the troops a day or two march away from the city
edit: so you can get ordered and sorted and take your time.

But then Stannis is supposed to be an experienced military commander and he has that smuggler who could advise on all things naval.
So I'm thinking we won't see a navy battle after all as Stannis is no fool

Next week could be the best episode yet

pixelburp · 03-05-2012 12:53pm

Thank god I was only speed-reading the updates to this thread: I saw th mod warning, in bold lettering, before reading any of the posts in detail. A bullet dodged there methinks; sorry you fellas had future events spoiled, pretty ignorant & inconsiderate behavior by Talisman

Oranage2 · 03-05-2012 12:53pm

mikemac1 wrote: »

Seems a bit foolish to me if Stannis sails his fleet right into Kings Landing bay/harbour. I think they mentioned that

Absolutely the worst thing you could do with a wooden fleet is get it locked into a bottleneck
I can see the catapults surrounding the bay raining down wildfire already :eek:

Would be wiser I think to land the troops a day or two march away from the city

But then Stannis is supposed to be an experienced military commander and he has that smuggler who could advise on all things naval.
So I'm thinking we could won't see a navy battle after all as Stannis is no fool

Next week could be the best episode yet

The only thing is that it's not Stannis' men on the boats they're pirates so he probably wont care that much about them. Also Didnt littlefinger promise Renly baratheon that the gates would be open? Cant see why he wouldnt offer the same to Stannis. So I'd say all Stannis bannermen go through the gate, pirates die a firey water death.

touts · 03-05-2012 1:08pm

Oranage2 wrote: »

The only thing is that it's not Stannis' men on the boats they're pirates so he probably wont care that much about them. Also Didnt littlefinger promise Renly baratheon that the gates would be open? Cant see why he wouldnt offer the same to Stannis. So I'd say all Stannis bannermen go through the gate, pirates die a firey water death.

But didn't Tyrion send him on that mission to Renly. Some kind of a plan to get Jamie back.

Professional Griefer · 03-05-2012 3:32pm

pixelburp wrote: »

Thank god I was only speed-reading the updates to this thread: I saw th mod warning, in bold lettering, before reading any of the posts in detail. A bullet dodged there methinks; sorry you fellas had future events spoiled, pretty ignorant & inconsiderate behavior by Talisman

Same. Its pretty pathetic. Think I may have to stop reading through these threads. Hopefully not though.

podgemonster · 03-05-2012 4:09pm

Ix Deadmau5 wrote: »

Same. Its pretty pathetic. Think I may have to stop reading through these threads. Hopefully not though.

Talisman should be made take the black for his actions but i hope it doesn't deter ye guys from posting. Although I have read the books, i love reading the shocked reactions and off the wall theories of what happens next.

Mr E · 03-05-2012 4:24pm

PM sent to Talisman. It's only fair he be given a chance to defend himself before you all chase him with pitchforks.

Sleepy · 03-05-2012 4:33pm

He can't "defend" himself. He posted about things that only exist in the ASOIAF novels that may never appear in the TV series and claims them as his take on the series. At least remove his posts.

Mr Freeze · 03-05-2012 4:42pm

Agree with the above! and Stick him with the pointy end!!!!!!!!!!!!!

03-05-2012 4:45pm

In the Game of Thrones thread you either live or you die....

Oranage2 · 03-05-2012 4:54pm

Off with his head

ancuncha · 03-05-2012 4:56pm

Oranage2 wrote: »

The only thing is that it's not Stannis' men on the boats they're pirates so he probably wont care that much about them. Also Didnt littlefinger promise Renly baratheon that the gates would be open? Cant see why he wouldnt offer the same to Stannis. So I'd say all Stannis bannermen go through the gate, pirates die a firey water death.

not true it is Stannis' men just the suggler turned knight is leading them
also king's landing is at the mouth of a river leading into the sea so it's next to the sea
littlefinger would say anything to anyone he is only loyal to himself, but in the book he was sent to highgarden to get the tyrells to join the lanisters after renlys death, so it's probaly just cutting out a scene for tv to have him there at the death

Oranage2 · 03-05-2012 10:10pm

ancuncha wrote: »

not true it is Stannis' men just the suggler turned knight is leading them
also king's landing is at the mouth of a river leading into the sea so it's next to the sea
littlefinger would say anything to anyone he is only loyal to himself, but in the book he was sent to highgarden to get the tyrells to join the lanisters after renlys death, so it's probaly just cutting out a scene for tv to have him there at the death

Yeah I could be wrong with what I've said, it was just a guess I usually watch them on a monday morning after a 12 shift so I miss a lot of details sometimes.

Another thing I remember about the episode, Davos seemed very apprehensive about leading the ships into battle? Was it because he didnt think he was honorable/capable enough to do it or was it that he thinks he'll die?

04-05-2012 12:36pm

Just read over this thread after seeing the comment in the have read the books ones. That guy is a dick. Mods should probably delete his posts tbh, sorry he ruined some stuff for you guys.
Ban him from the forum altogether imo.

don ramo · 04-05-2012 1:37pm

touts wrote: »

Has it ever been said what killed the Dragons the last time around? Did they just die out or were they hunted down and killed. If it was the latter then they may not be such a mighty weapon that Daenerys (I think I fecked up that spelling) can just land in the Seven Kingdoms and be a real force in the war with just Three Dragons and her small band from the desert. She needs an army and that billionaire guy can buy her one.

FYS:D

but i remember during her wedding when the eggs were presented sir whatshisname said it a very special gift to get dragon eggs for your wedding, that to me would indicate its rare but it happens, so surely there are more dragon eggs out there, just waiting for deanerys to get naked again

Son0vagun · 04-05-2012 3:08pm

As someone who has read the books i really enjoy coming in here and reading peoples predictions and thought. I wouldn't dream about ruining it. Dying to ask questions after season two to see what you guys think will happen.

Sleepy · 04-05-2012 3:16pm

Son0vagun wrote: »

As someone who has read the books i really enjoy coming in here and reading peoples predictions and thought. I wouldn't dream about ruining it. Dying to ask questions after season two to see what you guys think will happen.

I'm the same and, while I'll happily fill in some of the blanks for posters asking for some exposition from the books (e.g. some of the backstory around Roberts Rebellion etc.) I wouldn't dream of giving spoilers. Some of the real fun of this series is that pretty much anything can, and does, happen.

Mr Freeze · 04-05-2012 3:21pm

Sleepy wrote: »

Some of the real fun of this series is that pretty much anything can, and does, happen.

The "Fling the book at the wall" moments.....

mickc · 04-05-2012 6:47pm

Mr Freeze wrote: »

The "Fling the book at the wall" moments.....

Not recommended for Kindle users.

Syferus · 05-05-2012 12:16am

I could imagine Stannis imprisoning or killing Littlefinger if he were to make the same offer to him, such is his general rigidity to custom.

Mr Freeze · 08-05-2012 10:25am

mickc wrote: »

Not recommended for Kindle users.

I've flung it to the end of the couch or to the end of the bed!!!! Then rush over to make sure its ok!!!!!!!!!!:pac:

Season 2 Episode 5 - *Have NOT Read the Books*

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Season 2 Episode 5 - Have NOT Read the Books