Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 MOD POST #1130

Jesus Wept · 27-05-2012 11:48pm

Fromthetrees wrote: »

What do you mean no?
I said he bought 80 players in 6 years, which he did.
I then said he spent 40 million in his last season, which he did.
If he was under orders that he had to sell to buy, than that's what he had to do. 35 million on Johnson and Aquilani my arse, wanting to challenge for the title and he was relying on Torres to stay injury free for the season, my arse, the priority that summer was to buy a striker, he had 40 million to get one, he didn't.
Most clubs run on tight enough budgets bar Chelski and City, that's it.
Should we get Rafa back for another 6 years?
and then if Liverpool don't win a title go sure at least he had a fair crack of the whip?
A half dozen years is enough time in my book.

Fair enough, perhaps he could have unearthed some bargains that summer and managed to pull it out of the bag however it was against the odds, and that is before one factors in the utterly mental working conditions he was operating under.

GEM_13 · 27-05-2012 11:54pm

There is a very interesting piece on The Swiss Ramble website.Go to it and click on Liverpool down the left hand side.

I'm not sure if it has been seen on here before but it is well worth the read if you haven't seen it.It's a lot of stuff you will probably have seen before in bits and pieces.When you read it as one piece,it will have you wondering how it got so bad.

It does,however,make it crystal clear why we have fallen to where we are now-any club would find it hard to compete in the circumstances we are in.

mike65 · 27-05-2012 11:57pm

Linked that here weeks ago, like all SR articles very interesting for digging down into the numbers.

Its Klopp!
http://www.oddschecker.com/football/football-specials/liverpool-specials/next-permanent-manager

GEM_13 · 28-05-2012 12:05am

I noticed the one you linked about Martinez alright and that brought me to notice the other one.

Very frustrating to read but outlines why we have been struggling.Excellent read.

Fromthetrees · 28-05-2012 12:07am

Andy Carroll wrote: »

Fair enough, perhaps he could have unearthed some bargains that summer and managed to pull it out of the bag however it was against the odds, and that is before one factors in the utterly mental working conditions he was operating under.

He was under pressure and to be fair to him he generally bought and sold quiet well, I just remember that summers pre season friendlies and looking at the first goal scorer markets and it was like Torres and that was it, totally freaked me out, N'gog was second choice and he was around 20 like.

TOTAL BOUGHT: £229,340,000.
TOTAL SOLD: £151,000,000.
TOTAL NET SPEND: £78,340,000.

His net spend actually looks brilliant, thinking that Torres is included in the bought section and not in the sold section, knock 50 off the 78 milllion, then factor in what Liverpool will sell Maxi, Agger, Skrtel, Lucas even Kuyt and maybe a few others and he actually will have turned a tidy profit for Liverpool during his reign. Seems like he earned his multi-million payoff in the end.:P
I still think he should have bought a striker though, never forgive him for that.

wcarey1975 · 28-05-2012 12:08am

Fromthetrees wrote: »

He was under pressure and to be fair to him he generally bought and sold quiet well, I just remember that summers pre season friendlies and looking at the first goal scorer markets and it was like Torres and that was it, totally freaked me out, N'gog was second choice and he was around 20 like.

TOTAL BOUGHT: £229,340,000.
TOTAL SOLD: £151,000,000.
TOTAL NET SPEND: £78,340,000.

His net spend actually looks brilliant, thinking that Torres is included in the bought section and not in the sold section, knock 50 off the 78 milllion, then factor in what Liverpool will sell Maxi, Agger, Skrtel, Lucas even Kuyt and maybe a few others and he actually will have turned a tidy profit for Liverpool during his reign. Seems like he earned his multi-million payoff in the end.:P
I still think he should have bought a striker though, never forgive him for that.

Dont forget to include the Masch money also.

Jesus Wept · 28-05-2012 12:27am

Dave Whelan keeps talking.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/wigan-will-spend-big-money-to-try-850354

He looks like Andy Gray's Great Granddad. :-/

Hannibal · 28-05-2012 12:41am

Fromthetrees wrote: »

He was under pressure and to be fair to him he generally bought and sold quiet well, I just remember that summers pre season friendlies and looking at the first goal scorer markets and it was like Torres and that was it, totally freaked me out, N'gog was second choice and he was around 20 like.

TOTAL BOUGHT: £229,340,000.
TOTAL SOLD: £151,000,000.
TOTAL NET SPEND: £78,340,000.

His net spend actually looks brilliant, thinking that Torres is included in the bought section and not in the sold section, knock 50 off the 78 milllion, then factor in what Liverpool will sell Maxi, Agger, Skrtel, Lucas even Kuyt and maybe a few others and he actually will have turned a tidy profit for Liverpool during his reign. Seems like he earned his multi-million payoff in the end.:P
I still think he should have bought a striker though, never forgive him for that.

the figures I have off the reliable LFC history are.

Total bought: £231,651,000 on 58 players
Total sold: £161,700,000 on 72 players
Total net spend: £69,951,000
Average net per season: £11,658,500

Although 58 players bought seems a lot for six seasons you have to list off the likes of Hobbs, Idrizaj, Roque, Barragan, Martin, Ajdarevic, Brouwer, Duran, Nemeth, Anderson, San Jose, Ayala and Dalla Valle who although very small fees were paid they were all young players and apart from a few games each for Ayala and Hobbs none made it to our first team. Although Hobbs, San Jose, Barragan, Anderson and Ayala were sold on for a considerable profit.

You have to factor in Champs League success 2005 and runners up in 2007, semi finalists in 2008 and quarter finallists in 2009 and Europa semi finalists in 2010 because of the prize money and TV money that was earned through successive stints into the latter stages of Europe. Rafa's reign was on the whole a profitable period for the club it's a pity H&G ran the club into the ground though.

You talk about buying strikers and I agree but we had to sell Cisse, Morientes, Bellamy and Garcia to buy Torres in the first place. It was a case of sacrificing decent players and squad depth to buy a world class player. Crouch wanted to head back to London and Keane was a disaster and thankfully we only lost £3m on him. Financial constraints made it impossible to buy a decent striker, our first choice XI from 2007 until 2009 was top notch but we had no squad depth.

CL7 · 28-05-2012 12:41am

Fromthetrees wrote: »

He was under pressure and to be fair to him he generally bought and sold quiet well, I just remember that summers pre season friendlies and looking at the first goal scorer markets and it was like Torres and that was it, totally freaked me out, N'gog was second choice and he was around 20 like.

TOTAL BOUGHT: £229,340,000.
TOTAL SOLD: £151,000,000.
TOTAL NET SPEND: £78,340,000.

His net spend actually looks brilliant, thinking that Torres is included in the bought section and not in the sold section, knock 50 off the 78 milllion, then factor in what Liverpool will sell Maxi, Agger, Skrtel, Lucas even Kuyt and maybe a few others and he actually will have turned a tidy profit for Liverpool during his reign. Seems like he earned his multi-million payoff in the end.:P
I still think he should have bought a striker though, never forgive him for that.

Why do opposition fans take the piss out of Liverpool supporters when we used net spend to defend Benitez's transfer dealings? I've never understood this. It's the only figure that makes any sense to me but I could be missing something.

Jesus Wept · 28-05-2012 12:44am

CL7 wrote: »

Why do opposition fans take the piss out of Liverpool supporters when we used net spend to defend Benitez's transfer dealings? I've never understood this. It's the only figure that makes any sense to me but I could be missing something.

Most people are none too smart.

cson · 28-05-2012 1:49am

djfitzerjnr wrote: »

Just look at this team of Rafa transfers and don't tell me that it would not challenge, even still today.
Reina
Johnson----Agger----Skrtel----Arbeloa
Lucas----Masch---Alonso
Kuyt
Torres
Yossi

I'm going to tell you that team wouldn't challenge today.

You'd concede **** all, I'll give you that, but you wouldn't be winning any leagues with it.

Jesus Wept · 28-05-2012 1:51am

I don't think that was Rafa's vision for the 11 he was working towards, no the formation.

Gbear · 28-05-2012 1:53am

CL7 wrote: »

Why do opposition fans take the piss out of Liverpool supporters when we used net spend to defend Benitez's transfer dealings? I've never understood this. It's the only figure that makes any sense to me but I could be missing something.

The details of the argument are irrelevant. If the Liverpool manager says that the sky is blue you'll get a load of mancs or whoever going on about what a gob****e he is and why it's actually mauve. And of course vice-versa.

The more emotive an issue is the harder it is for anyone to be rational about it.

Sappy404 · 28-05-2012 9:05am

If Martinez has called a presser for Tuesday and we're still interviewing (as per reports on Rogers) is it safe to assume Roberto will be staying at Wigan?

Morzadec · 28-05-2012 9:10am

Lads what's happened for Klopp to come in so short?

He's around 2/1 or 3/1 now

LuckyLloyd · 28-05-2012 9:15am

Sappy404 wrote: »

If Martinez has called a presser for Tuesday and we're still interviewing (as per reports on Rogers) is it safe to assume Roberto will be staying at Wigan?

Martinez will be announced as the new manager / head coach tomorrow and he'll explain at his presser how the owners impressed him with their 'vision' for the club and how excited he is at being part of the DOF / Coach structure etc, etc

Morzadec wrote: »

Lads what's happened for Klopp to come in so short?

He's around 2/1 or 3/1 now

Meh, someone moved the markets. As Dub13 noted a while back - those markets are meaningless.

amiable · 28-05-2012 9:16am

Morzadec wrote: »

Lads what's happened for Klopp to come in so short?

He's around 2/1 or 3/1 now

Probably cos Talksport are claiming or one of their presenters that Klopp will be the next Liverpool manager.
The thing is all the media are guessing and the only confirmed candidate seemed to be Martinez from the meeting with John Henry that was pictured.
And even then Henry may not have been impressed. It's all guess work and FSG seem to have kept it all in house which is good IMO.

Sappy404 · 28-05-2012 9:18am

Morzadec wrote: »

Lads what's happened for Klopp to come in so short?

He's around 2/1 or 3/1 now

Wondered that myself. Here's the jist of what I've read so far on it:

‏@JimBoardman

All I've seen about Klopp to LFC is someone from TalkSport mentioning it + claims it's in German media. Where in German media?

‏@JimBoardman

@maccer10 I don't know who it is, just saying I've not seen anything convincing so far that says it's Klopp or that we've made a decision.

So basically talkSport are the only ones going with it.

It's bizarre that Klopp and Rogers are both mentioned today despite both ruling themselves out a week ago.

Update: Talksport on Klopp to Liverpool: http://www.talksport.co.uk/radio/extra-time/120528/kreger-jurgen-klopps-liverpool-future-173068?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Morzadec · 28-05-2012 9:19am

Looks like Sigurdsonn is set for a permanent move to Swansea for £7.2m

I know he was linked to us before, and to be honest I'm disappointed we haven't got him. At that price he looks a bargain especially when you looks at what we paid for an older Adam and Henderson

Fromthetrees · 28-05-2012 9:20am

Dotsey wrote: »

the figures I have off the reliable LFC history are.

Total bought: £231,651,000 on 58 players
Total sold: £161,700,000 on 72 players
Total net spend: £69,951,000
Average net per season: £11,658,500

Although 58 players bought seems a lot for six seasons you have to list off the likes of Hobbs, Idrizaj, Roque, Barragan, Martin, Ajdarevic, Brouwer, Duran, Nemeth, Anderson, San Jose, Ayala and Dalla Valle who although very small fees were paid they were all young players and apart from a few games each for Ayala and Hobbs none made it to our first team. Although Hobbs, San Jose, Barragan, Anderson and Ayala were sold on for a considerable profit.

You have to factor in Champs League success 2005 and runners up in 2007, semi finalists in 2008 and quarter finallists in 2009 and Europa semi finalists in 2010 because of the prize money and TV money that was earned through successive stints into the latter stages of Europe. Rafa's reign was on the whole a profitable period for the club it's a pity H&G ran the club into the ground though.

You talk about buying strikers and I agree but we had to sell Cisse, Morientes, Bellamy and Garcia to buy Torres in the first place. It was a case of sacrificing decent players and squad depth to buy a world class player. Crouch wanted to head back to London and Keane was a disaster and thankfully we only lost £3m on him. Financial constraints made it impossible to buy a decent striker, our first choice XI from 2007 until 2009 was top notch but we had no squad depth.

Torres was bought in 2007 though and I'm saying they lacked a second striker in 2009, he did spend relatively big money every summer he was there, I think he spent it on the wrong position. I have said that Rafas reign was probably a profitably one when you count the players he brought in and have not yet been sold.
This is where I got the 'almost 80 players in 6 years from'.http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1221975/Rafa-Benitezs-229m-spending-spree-The-76-players-signed-Liverpool-managers-reign.html
I'm not going to dispute each buy and sell all I'm saying after buying that amount of players in that length of time to not have a back up for Torres (and challenge for the title?) was a massive mistake.

Fromthetrees · 28-05-2012 9:25am

CL7 wrote: »

Why do opposition fans take the piss out of Liverpool supporters when we used net spend to defend Benitez's transfer dealings? I've never understood this. It's the only figure that makes any sense to me but I could be missing something.

I'm a Liverpool fan and I said his net spend figure is actually more impressive than what was posted.
Does that mean I think Rafa is the right man to get in again, absolutely not.

Fromthetrees · 28-05-2012 9:42am

Gbear wrote: »

The details of the argument are irrelevant. If the Liverpool manager says that the sky is blue you'll get a load of mancs or whoever going on about what a gob****e he is and why it's actually mauve. And of course vice-versa.

The more emotive an issue is the harder it is for anyone to be rational about it.

Are there a lot of mancs on boards?

CL7 · 28-05-2012 9:46am

Fromthetrees wrote: »

I'm a Liverpool fan and I said his net spend figure is actually more impressive than what was posted.
Does that mean I think Rafa is the right man to get in again, absolutely not.

No No, I didn't mean you at all. I did read your post.

It was a genuine question.

spockety · 28-05-2012 9:50am

CL7 wrote: »

Why do opposition fans take the piss out of Liverpool supporters when we used net spend to defend Benitez's transfer dealings? I've never understood this. It's the only figure that makes any sense to me but I could be missing something.

I buy a Ford Mondeo for 30K cash.

I trade it in the following year for another new Ford Mondeo for 30K. (Garage gives me 20K for the old one)

I trade that one in the following year for another new Ford Mondeo for 30K. (Garage gives me 20K for the old one)

I trade that one in the following year for another new Ford Mondeo for 30K. (Garage gives me 20K for the old one)

I trade that one in the following year for another new Ford Mondeo for 30K. (Garage gives me 20K for the old one)

So I've just spent 150K on my car purchases. Am I driving a f**king Ferrari? No, I'm still driving a Mondeo.

People who dismiss net spend are either morons, or being deliberately "difficult".

amiable · 28-05-2012 9:51am

From the bloke on Talksport that claims Liverpool are in for Klopp

My Liverpool source has also confirmed the Reds are genuinely interested in signing Edinson Cavani from Napoli

mike65 · 28-05-2012 9:55am

Net Spend is so 2009

Can we move on or will there need to be a Truth and Reconciliation process?

Seamu$ · 28-05-2012 10:05am

amiable wrote: »

My Liverpool source has also confirmed the Reds are genuinely interested in signing Edinson Cavani from Napoli

I'm sure we are, but has he any interest in coming to play for us?!

amiable · 28-05-2012 10:08am

Seamu$ wrote: »

I'm sure we are, but has he any interest in coming to play for us?!

The way you quoted it makes it look like I have a Liverpool source

Sappy404 · 28-05-2012 10:11am

amiable wrote: »

From the bloke on Talksport that claims Liverpool are in for Klopp

Serious talk of a summer move for Cavani back in January. It went out the window when we finished 8th though. Lavezzi (likely) moving means Cavani probably won't, too.

murpho999 · 28-05-2012 10:18am

Still only rumours but surely Klopp taikng Anfield job would be a a marriage made in tabloid heaven.

"Klopp Drops Kop Flop"

"Klopp Mops Up as Kop go Top"

Etc,,etc...the puns are endless and that's without saying anything about him being German,

Makes me think it's just destined to happen.

Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 MOD POST #1130

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