Something That Happened That Changed You Forever

One Easter when I was homebound, I sat down with a Bible, determined to read carefully to understand how the Resurrection and other Biblical evidence proved the God of love that I'd always, during a lifetime of being a Christian, been assured was in there. I got up several hours later an atheist, having failed to find any coherent account of God, good or bad or indifferent. The way I usually describe it is "my faith dissolved and fell apart like crappy chewing gum".

TL:DR? Never lend money to friends or family: Toxic people. A cautionary tale.
How one toxic attention seeker can ruin a family dynamic.

Background:

My younger brother (Brian, not his real name) is married four years. His wife was always your atypical high maintenance, drama queen. We'll call her Gillian. Our family tolerated her to an extent with politeness yet there was a nasty and toxic aggressiveness to her that emerged gradually after they married. Their relationship was one where she was firmly in charge and definitely wore the pants. He was the hard working yet gullible type with a heart of gold although he was very easily lead.

Two days before his wedding, in 2012, he was incredibly stressed out. I asked him why and he confided in me that they needed to settle the hotel bill for 5k. He only had 1500 cash on him. In his desperation, he was intending to raid one of my mother's savings accounts, the one which was in his name, to settle the bill. He would then replace the balance with cash gifts from the wedding day. I was shocked. He told me that his wife didn't know. I can only assume that it was he who had to cover the hotel reception while she would cover the other expenses. I luckily had the balance he required in my savings account.

We agreed that I would give him a bank draft for the 5k to settle the bill. In exchange he immediately gave the the 1500 cash and a solemn promise that he would settle the balance with me once he returned from honeymoon. He was visibly relieved and his stress abated. We kept the agreement to ourselves (his wife didn't know). We then enjoyed the wedding.

They returned from the honeymoon. He acknowledged that he owed me back and swore blind that it was on it's way. I gave him the benefit of the doubt. About 6 months after the wedding (and the balance outstanding) my brother's wife, Gillian, started a new job in March 2013. One night we were all out together with some of Gillian's new work mates. I got to talking to one of them, Jessica, and fast forward three years, we are now married.

Gillian was new in the job and Jessica was a veteran who took Gillian under her wing to show her the ropes. They were like chalk and cheese personality wise, Gillian being the bositerous, centre of attention and Jessica the wall flower, the shy type. It was here that Gillian's personality disorder came to a head. As I was dating Jessica, we began to get more and more serious as a couple and thus began spending more and more time together. We still went out with Gillian and my brother but these nights out became rarer. The last night we were out was just the four of us.

My brother went to the men's room in a bar with just myself, Jessica and Gillian together alone. I was chatting to Jessica about something or other and Gillian simply exploded into a full blown tantrum. She felt that I was ignoring her, intentionally. I wasn't. My brother came back to find his wife in tears. She began screaming about how our family had no time for her and no respect for her. Her screaming lead to the bar man asking us to leave. We did and she had an emotional breakdown outside on the street. We were traumatized by it. Thereafter, I didn't want to endure such behaviour again and the rare nights out became no nights out. It was absolute bat shti crazy, she had thrown hissy fits in the past but this was a different dimension of crazy. I had no intention of being accused of deliberately ignorning people and having to walk on eggshells lest she go ape again with no consequences. Everyone continued going about their business. Later that year, in December 2013, we all attended Brian's birthday party in their house. When my parents and older brother and his wife left for the evening, myself and Jessica were still finishing our drinks and were about to leave. Gillian, told me that I was not going to be their child's Godfather (I was best man at their wedding). Remember, she isn't even pregnant at this point. She just felt like informing me of that. This was said in front of her mother and father, Brian, Jessica and myself. I was stunned and asked what was her problem? She replies the classic bully response of "What's the matter with you! That's only a bit of banter". Brian says nothing. We leave. I speak with Brian over the Christmas and he says that considering that her brothers were not groomsmen at their wedding then one of them would be named Godfather. Remember: She is not even Pregnant.

At a staff night out for Gillian and Jessica's company, which was a pub concert night, Gillian's family were there too by chance. They gave Jessica the full lowdown on myself. Told her explicitly that she was gorgeous and could do a lot better for herself. That I was cocky and too sure of myself and she was just a lovely girl who didn't need that. Needless to say, after two hours, that someone could feel free to offer relationship advice to a practical stranger was suspect and a serious red flag. I have met Gillian's parents roughly 5 times for the record. It all appeared like a vendetta among Gillian and her family to interfere and hopefully split us up. There was only one queen bee and it was Gillian.

Weeks later, for no apparent reason, Gillian decided to invent the toxic idea that I had no more time for my brother to explain the less frequent nights out. The idea was ridiculous. We both still played Golf together and had a normal brotherly relationship. We just didn't go out on the lash together anymore. I was in a serious relationship now and things change. Yet Gillian began to use this toxic 'idea' as a weapon to bully and belittle Jessica with. At work. I was told this by her. It came to me through her. I spoke with my brother and he played dumb. Didn't know anything about it.

Jessica simply told her that it was all nonsense, it was none of her business and they were grown men who could sort out any differences themselves. They seemingly put the matter to rest but at their job, the belittling and the bullying by Gillian became more nefarious and constant. She began to spread gossip and rumours about Jessica and our relationship to co-workers. She developed a clique of co-workers that isolated Jessica. Rumours such as that she was 'told by Jessica that I was stingey, that we had no spark in bed, that Jessica wasn't interested in me and that she wanted Gillian to do her dirty work and tell me that she thought our relationship was going nowhere.

Gillian subsequently began to spread the idea at work and among her clique that she was being bullied and belittled by Jessica at work and was 'suffering' from the stress of it all.

Needless to say, this was an absolute nightmare for Jessica. She confided in me. I did what I could to be diplomatic and tried to arrange a meeting with my brother. Gillian refused to meet. It was during this meeting that it became immediately obvious that he was being brainwashed into thinking I had no more time for him. He simply couldn't provide legitimate examples to me. He was eager to discuss the unsavoury aspects of Jessica's 'character' with me i.e. that she thought I was cocky, stingey, terrible in bed, not especially good looking, wasn't all that interested and didn't see us going anywhere serious. He was also livid that Jessica was bullying his wife at work and that his wife came home some days in tears about Jessica's treatment of her in work. Basically everything was being twisted around on both myself and Jessica. I told him he was being fed a line of absolute bullsiht and asking for seconds. He refused to accept any of it. I was aghast and appalled. I, stupidly, mentioned it to Jessica and she was traumatised by it. She had never dealt with anyone like Gillian before nor myself. A wolf in sheep's clothing.

The behavior at work continued for another few months. I stayed on the sidelines and foolishly felt that it would calm down in time. One Sunday, my older brother and his wife went to a mutual friend's 40th birthday party. The following morning my older brother's wife was uploading photo's to facebook and mistakenly tagged me in a photo. A photo I'm not even in. Her post said something along the lines of "Mary was with (Me) at XYZ pub...". I though nothing of it. A mistake.

The following Monday morning, Jessica went to work. Gillian immediately approaches her and launched into a vicious verbal tirade about her Husband being left out and she didn't want her Husband being left out of nights out. She had stupidly seen the facebook post, put 2 and 2 together and gotten 5. She was implying that myself, Jessica and my older brother were out and didn't invite her husband (or her). Jessica didn't know what she was talking about. She contacted me in distress. I told her to speak with HR to stop having to deal with personal issues at her job. She did this. Big mistake. It got back to Gillian who played the martyr to full effect, "My job is on the line here!", "She's trying to get me fired!". We are all mutual friends on Facebook. Gillian begins 'liking' and 'sharing' passive-aggressive FB pages. You know the kind of thing. "Parents Notice your fake friends first", "Tell that bitch she couldn't beat me on our best day", "The most dangerous liars are the ones who think they are telling the truth!". All tactless. One or two you can ignore but this was every other day. And all designed at having a dig at Jessica.

Later that evening I tried to ring my brother. No answer. I tried ringing Gillian. No answer. I sent text messages telling her that essentially that I was not leaving my brother out and we were not on a night out. I got a reply stating that she thought that I was lying. I asked her to speak with my brother to check if she wanted. I also explicitly told her that if she had any problem that she was to speak to ME and not my then girlfriend. Basically cut out the BS and grow up. The following morning I received a text message from her mother and father (remember this is a grown, married woman in her late 20's) which said that I was bullying and harrassing their daughter, that I wasn't to contact her anymore and that they "knew things" about my girlfriend that they shouldn't know about. All innuendo. I was gobsmacked and remember laughing to myself in sheer awe at the arrogance on display. I again stupidly engaged and said if there is anything for me to know then they need to prove it.

At work, the tension was palpable and they were both placed on suspension, pending a review. My girlfriend was absolutely at her wits end. She had done absolutely nothing wrong and was going through the wringer.

A day or two later my parents visited Gillian and my brother. They regularly made a weekly visit. Gillian informed them of the mutual suspension but that Jessica was reprimanded at the job before for bullying another new starter and was suspended for a period of time. She also told them that I was telling lies about Jessica to them. My father absolutely lost the plot. He gave her absolute stink for labelling me a liar. They knew Jessica well and knew her to not to be a bullying type at all. Gillian rang her parents in distress and they spoke on the phone with my parents. Needless to say their relationship became significantly strained thereafter. My parents through concern told what had happened. I wasn't aware of any suspension. I mentioned this to Jessica and she was absolutely livid. It wasn't true at all. It was all made up by Gillian to explain away her bullying. She was twisting everything around on people and was becoming so enmeshed in her web of lies that she was now telling barefaced lies to her in-laws. Jessica had to go to the office and get a signed and witnessed statement that she was never suspended, never involved with bullying etc. If anything to clear her name with her own future in laws.

They both returned to work but were no longer on any speaking terms. The tension was still present but their contact was zero. A few months later, after the above episode, we became engaged. We received no congratulations or any messages of support from either my brother of his wife. The ruse to split us up had only backfired, it had made us stronger as a couple if anything.

I attempted to try to talk sense to my brother again. I arranged a meeting with him but insisted that our father came along to moderate so to speak. I told him I flat out refused to speak to his wife anymore, that any relationship we had was now broken. I would still have time for him but our relationship was strained, I also said she was not invited to any arrangements we had for our wedding. (We were both stressed out at the idea of having to invite her, for appearances sake, so we eventually married abroad on our own). Gillian was to be completely persona non grata at any meal/reception for family when we returned, Jessica was extremely uncomfortable for her to be there understandably).

He flat out refused to accept anything. He reiterated Jessica's bullying of his wife, how he had to support his wife after 'her' ordeal of going to work stressed out. I then showed him the letter stating Jessica was never suspensed. Ever. Period. He demanded a copy of it but I wouldn't let him have it. The brainwashing was out in full force. He refused to accept that he was a doormat in a toxic, manipulative relationship with a bullying liar. He did nothing to quell her actions. The proof of it was there for him in black in white, yet he then said, with full sincerity, "Today is Sunday, and if Gillian tells me it's Monday, then it's Monday". I can still remember the look on my father's face. Our jaws dropped. We left it at that.

That evening I was sent a text from Gillian. She was ranting about how she was no liar, that I was only fooling myself, that she had a meltdown that time because Jessica was 'talking crap' about me at work and she lost it when she was 'all over me'. She tried to guilt trip me into believing that I'd ruined my relationship with my brother. I wanted to meet but I was past the point of attempting to fix everything. I just wanted no more to do with it. I was reading psychology articles about narcissism and drama queens, histrionic personality disorders etc. Gillian was a case study in all of it. Meeting would only feed her drama. Relations between the families were already strained. Nothing more could be done. I was past the point of caring and trying. It was classic "He said, She said" stuff. I wanted no more to do with it. I felt sorry for my brother being the gullible and easily led type. He didn't need any of it but seemed happy to be Gillian's lapdog.

At the end of 2014, Gillian is made redundant from her job. Jessica is kept on and receives a new lease of life. She later leaves the job after her hours are cut significantly. A few weeks before Christmas, Jessica is informed that Gillian, who no longer works in the role, is in the office reception with her mother and speaking with anyone and everyone about how Jessica has been bullying her for the past 12 months. This is brought to Jessica's attention by one of the people cornered and informed of this. Batsh1t crazy behaviour.

This then, finally, brings me back to the loan I had made with my brother. This was 3 years after the fact now and not a single penny had been repaid. In the build up to our own 'wedding', the amount owed (€3,500) would happily cover some of the expenses for our wedding abroad.

I began to try and contact him but received no answered calls. Text reminders went unanswered. I mentioned it to my parents at home eventually in sheer exasperation. They knew nothing about it. They were shocked. I simply asked if they would mention it to him. I guess I wanted to name and shame him so to speak. This was a month before we left to get married.

A few days later, he sent me an aggressive text saying he'd having my 'f'ing money', how dare I get parents involved, that I knew his wife knew nothing of the arrangement and I was trying to cause trouble in his marriage. He said he had tried to repay me SEVERAL times and I was lying about everything and I was pathetic. Told me not to contact him anymore about it. The name and shame had worked. That was July 2015.

Jessica and me go and get married and are now home and settled into married life.

Cut to November 2015. My older brother and his wife have had their first child.
The first in our family. My younger brother and Gillian haven't contact my parents since July. Gillian is now pregnant. I hear about this through my older brother.

With a baby on their way (and a new Jeep in their drive), I once again contact regarding repayment. I am ignored. He had told me to expect repayment in July so I then adopt the "Andy Dufresne Library Fund" strategy of offering weekly reminders of his debt. Ignoring me wouldn't make me go away now.

All contact is by text. I am never able to get him on the phone.

Eventually he replies saying he has a cheque for me. I ask him to drop it up to our parents. Throws in a reminder that he doesn't speak to them because of me. The syntax and the structure in the texting is that used by Gillian. I have a suspicion that it is her who is actually texting me pretending to be her Husband. I try ringing. No answer. I leave a message to call me back to discuss repayment. No reply. I am fully sure it is her. She is wiping her muddy feet on the doormat. I am TOLD that the cheque will be ready for pick up in their house on Sunday "between 2 and 3".

I am busy that Sunday so that doesn't work and try to re-arrange. I am then taunted and called a coward. I am told to grow a pair of balls and be a man who will be there at that time. I'm not stupid. I recognise a set up when I see one. I am sure Gillian and her parents will be there to belittle me and attempt to create a scene. They probably think that I will bring along family and we can all then have a big fracas with the consequences being felt for years after. I refuse the arrangement and tell him I will collect it from him at his job. I am flexible about this and work to come to an agreement. We reach an impasse. I just can't get him on the phone to talk. I feel as if he is not being allowed to speak with me.

A week goes by and I decide that enough is enough. I don't want to think about it anymore and want it done and dusted. I ring, no answer, I tell him by text that I will call down Tuesday evening to his house and he can drop the cheque off. He agrees but he won't be there as he's working. Says to collect it from Gillian. I agree. An hour later I notice a missed call from Gillian. There is a voicemail left. The voicemail is her ranting and being hysterical. She says am I so evil, such a coward that I will confront and harrass a defenceless woman alone in her own home! I ring her back but she hangs up on me immediately.

Jesus fcking wept.

She begins sending me unsolicited text messages now. Says she has all the 'proof' of me bullying her, she has no problem facing any bully, that I was told to collect the money but chickened out, that I'm dragging it out, she didn't need the stress now, that I was unhappy and miserable and I don't even register in their life, I am despicable, disgusting man and she couldn't possibly think any lower of anyone. That she and her husband have been bullied before but I am the worst bully they've encountered!

Woah. Unsolicited. I am trying to contact my brother only and I refuse to engage. I am being teased into a fight.

Getting no reply, she follows up later a couple of hours later with; you can't even reply! Coward! It's laughable. You're harrassing your own brother! You need to fix Brian's relationship with his parents! I know the money means soooo much to you. Since you only have one income now you need it more that ever! It's ready when you are!

I ignore the taunts. The following day I receive a brand new text from her parents informing me that I am a bully and won't face their daughter. That I am arrogant and should be ashamed of myself, that my life isn't up to much so I constantly impose myself on theirs, that they have stayed out of it long enough and won't be upsetting their daughter anymore with my BS especially at this time. That Jessica was bullying their Gillian at work and now I was taking over the bullying from her. It was unsolicited and I didn't bother to reply.

I try ringing my brother again but get no answer. I ask my older brother what to do. He said to drive to their house at lunchtime and collect the cheque. If no one is there or he doesn't hand it over then to tell him and he will call down himself and collect it.

End Game.

Sent him a text at 12.18pm.
“I’m calling down to the house before 1pm today to collect the cheque”

No reply or acknowledgement.
Ring doorbell.
No answer. Ring it twice more.
He finally answers after a minute or two.
“Sign that there”. Handing me a pen and a photocopy of the cheque.
Where’s my cheque? What am I signing that for? (in hindsight, he was trying to delay me).
“I want the proof that I gave it back to ya”
I ask him to show me the cheque. He does.
I sarcastically scrawl the photocopy like signing an autograph.
“No, no, no. Sign it properly.....and date it!”
Some back and forth ensues about how he doesn’t make demands of me for my own money.
I eventually sign it and date it but he won’t hand over the cheque instead he starts with;
“Your behaviour towards my wife is a disgrace, you were a brave man texting her phone”.
I tell him to spare me the BS and give me the cheque, I’m on my lunch break and to stop pissing me about,
I can’t even get him on the phone to talk as he won’t answer his phone, just pay me back and you’ll never hear from me again.
Gillian shows up a minute later and immediately starts to record me on her phone as she walks up.
“Don’t you know that I’m pregnant?!? I don’t need this stress right now!”
Told her that I’m here for my money and I’m here to talk to my brother and nobody else.
“That’s none of my business, I’m here for my money, I’m here to talk to my own brother”
I wasn’t getting drawn into a shouting match.
He still won’t hand over the cheque, because he is waiting for........Her mother;
screeching up in the car, jumps out and immediately tells Gillian to go inside, (which she doesn’t, as she’s still recording me on the phone) and starts with;
“He’s not stepping inside that door!! You’re a bully, an arrogant bully. I’m protecting my daughter, ye were always great friends, you’ve been bullying her by text”
“I’m here to collect my money, three grand and three years waiting. It’s a disgrace”
My brother says “C’mere we know the kind you are boy! That time in the pub after our wedding night just says it all about you.
You were picking on some fella the day after our wedding looking for a fight and I had to hold you back!”
He's telling blatant lies to my face now. Twisting things around.

(See below for what actually happened).

Her father shows up, almost seems embarrassed to be there.
Gives me a brief “I’m looking out for my daughter” speech.
I tell them both that that I was there to talk to my brother.
Gillian says – Are you that unhappy? No wonder you’re so miserable when you’re married to that thing! That....THING! That’s all she is, a thing! *laughs to herself*

A toxic, nasty piece of work. I say nothing, I know I’m being recorded and being baited into a reaction.

Brian “Yeah and I fcking told you too that I wasn’t going to your wedding”
Gillian, absolutely delighted with herself now and in full performance mode,
“And I heard she got her claws into another one after I left! I heard she got fired from her job! I wonder why! Because she’s a bully!
*pointing her finger into the air* Fired! Fired! Fired! Oh, and that BS letter. That was all made up! She typed that out herself! Pathetic!”
Brian says “I talked to that manager myself and she said she never wrote that email”.
“What was her name Brian? Can you even tell me her name? Didn’t fcking think so” No answer. Just utter BS.
And still no cheque. I realise this is going nowhere and I should just leave but no one calls me a coward.
Gillian “Are you going to fix Brian's relationship with his parents? You’ve ruined his relationship with them!
(whining) They never even rang me to congratulate me! You do know that I’m pregnant?”
“Brian, you didn’t even ring them when their grandchild was born! Their first godchild......first grandchild”
Gillian and her mother start cackling at the mistake...”Hahahahahaha!......He doesn’t know what he’s talking about!!”

The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.

I ignore this but tell Brian that it was a disgrace to not at least ring them out of respect and why exactly that is my fault?
Her mother says laughingly “Ah you’re only taking after your own father!”
Brian “You are. You’re just like me fcking Dad.”
(I ask him what he means by that. Doesn’t say anymore).
Our Dad is no doormat. Brian should take notes.
Our father having the audacity to give out to Gillian about calling me a liar (18 months before this) is still a hot topic.

“Here, there’s your money, ya prick”

(flings the envelope (with BULLY Scrawled on it) onto the ground at my feet)

They all start to file into the house.
I bend down to pick it up and shoot back. “That better not bounce!”
Brian, turns back to me and calmly says while pointing at Gillian;

“Listen, I’m telling you now. That child will never know you and you’ll never know that child.”

I call after him as they go inside “You need to ring Mam and Dad” but he just slams the door in my face.

I get in the car and drive off but not before deliberately honking the horn three times. A honk for each grand, eventually paid back.

That evening I went home, and Brian had rung home to tell them that Gillian had a Doctor’s appointment that day, basically a cover story.
To explain how they conveniently all showed up at the house at, oh say, 1pm*.
Fancy that.
He hadn’t talked to them at home since the end of July, four months, as I had “ruined Brian's relationship” with them.
Never gave them the courtesy of calling after their first grandchild was born,
Had zero contact with them.
And yet, coincidentally enough, on the very day I show up at his door, he finally calls them at home. Funny that.
He was listening to me after all even while he was shutting the door in my face.

(The night after their wedding)
A drunken young fella, about 21 or 22, accidentally brushed up against Gillian's father,
who has his back turned to the guy, as Mr Drunk was making his way through the crowd.
Her father says, “Hey, hey! Watch out willya” or words to that effect.
The guy misinterprets this as him having a go and squares up to Gillian's father.
The red mist descends on hot head Brian and he immediately get’s in the guy’s face.
“That’s my f*cking father in law!, you f*cking mess with him, you mess with me!!”
I put my arm across him and tell him to calm the **** down.
One of the drunk’s, soberish, friends see’s what just happened and comes to drag his buddy away.
They leave shortly after by the back door.

Buona Fortuna wrote: »

About 50+ years ago was on the beach with Mum and Dad. We were eating fish and chips out of those cardboard trays. It was a lovely day, the sun was shining, the fish and chips were lovely - all of sudden the biggest gull I'd ever seen swooped down and took my piece of fish (I'd been saving it till the end).

I've been slightly scared of gulls ever since.

Always wanted one of those walking sticks didn't realise it was smarties inside.

OK now I don't feel as guilty about sharing mine.

I was working on a particular building site for a few weeks during my apprenticeship.

This site was central Siberia cold, with a howling wind, rain & hail with muck up to your knees.

After two weeks of almost constant headaches due to the cold, I booked myself into a part time course relating to the job and am enjoying a new position now.

What if the weather was decent those few weeks? I probably wouldn't have had the motivation to make a change and see it through.

TL:DR Man feels a bit nippy. Changes job.

valoren wrote: »

TL:DR? Never lend money to friends or family: Toxic people. A cautionary tale.
How one toxic attention seeker can ruin a family dynamic.

I don't think lending money caused the problem here! Reminds me of a friends wife but even she isn't that bad. Hope your bother comes to his senses soon

Ireland being drawn in a group based in Japan and not South Korea for the 2002 world cup.

I imagine my life now would be very different if I'd moved to Korea instead of Japan.

cherryghost wrote: »

That is completely shocking. I'm amazed you kept your composure all those years in the thick of it. I can't imagine the rollercoaster of emotions you and your wife went through.

It's been an ordeal. I will in all probability never speak to my brother again after all that. And I'll be a stranger to their child. When they say you're the average of the people you keep as company, then it certainly applies to my brother. He went from being like a Tim Nice but Dim into a brainwashed Rottweiler in the time I've known my wife. His personality changed and the experience changed our lives. All because of one mal-adjusted attention seeker.

WarZ wrote: »

I'm guessing the wife has Borderline Personality Disorder?
.

Funny thing is that she tried the same trick with my older brother's wife. Another shy, unassuming type. She had me and my younger brother convinced for years that she wasn't interested in the older brother and wanted to split up. She had confided in her, "Gillian" about it all and she had spilled her heart out to her about it. It was all BS. I was blind to the manipulation but when I became involved with my now wife she went into manipulation toxic overdrive.

Point of the story is to read about people like that, recognise the signs and RUN! Even if it means cutting ties with family. Insanity.

Deleted User wrote: »

This Gillian...she a looker?

She's the most beautiful, the most talented, the most popular person in the world! Or so she would have you believe if you spent ten minutes in her company. :pac:

mittimitti wrote: »

Winning just over 4 million on the lotto
Was a big change didn't go mad and tried not to let it change me

Hey, How you doin?

It was after my daughter was born and the nurse cleaned her up and wrapped her in a tight white blanket

She said to me"Would daddy like to hold her?"

I took her from the nurse and looked into her huge brown eyes, I could see the universe reflecting back through them and felt what the true meaning of life was and why we were put on this earth