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General Rugby Discussion

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    #4502
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Some of the Squad lists for Pro Rugby USA released

    Pierce Dargan is part of the Ohio squad. AIL as a student in Trinity. School player in Blackrock. Played in Trinity until last season
    John Quill, former Dolphin player and US Eagle, is part of the Sacremento squad as is Mirco Bergamasco.
    Kingsley McGowan who has been playing AIL in Trinity past 2 years is in San Francisco squad.
    Taku Ngwenya, Habana world cup.... is in San Deigo squad


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    #4503
    razorblunt
    Registered Users Posts: 17,300 ✭✭✭✭razorblunt


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    Some of the Squad lists for Pro Rugby USA released

    Pierce Dargan is part of the Ohio squad. AIL as a student in Trinity. School player in Blackrock. Played in Trinity until last season
    John Quill, former Dolphin player and US Eagle, is part of the Sacremento squad as is Mirco Bergamasco.
    Kingsley McGowan who has been playing AIL in Trinity past 2 years is in San Francisco squad.
    Taku Ngwenya, Habana world cup.... is in San Deigo squad

    Did he stay with Biarritz in D2 all that time?


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    #4504
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    razorblunt wrote: »
    Did he stay with Biarritz in D2 all that time?

    Yes he did. He seemed to fall completely off the radar. He's still only 30.


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    #4505
    wp_rathead
    Registered Users Posts: 10,069 ✭✭✭✭wp_rathead


    There are meant to be 10 Canadian players involved in this league, I wonder would Shane O'Leary consider being one of them?


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    #4506
    errlloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 12,604 ✭✭✭✭errlloyd


    It's amazing that Mirco Bergamasco is almost a 90 cap international with top 14 experience and a bit of goal kicking experience, he's 33 and wasn't making the Zebre Squad.


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    #4507
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    wp_rathead wrote: »
    There are meant to be 10 Canadian players involved in this league, I wonder would Shane O'Leary consider being one of them?
    I would imagine he would consider it but doubt he will go over. Is still waiting on a Connacht contract for next season so could go in time...


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    #4508
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,931 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    I wonder if this will become like the MLS in soccer. A sort of retirement home for European/SANZAR players. Although I suppose even if the pace is a few steps down the physical aspects are still there, soccer not being a contact sport has the advantage there.


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    #4509
    razorblunt
    Registered Users Posts: 17,300 ✭✭✭✭razorblunt


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    I wonder if this will become like the MLS in soccer. A sort of retirement home for European/SANZAR players. Although I suppose even if the pace is a few steps down the physical aspects are still there, soccer not being a contact sport has the advantage there.

    Could become like Japan for European clubs perhaps.


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    #4510
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,931 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    razorblunt wrote: »
    Could become like Japan for European clubs perhaps.

    I forgot about Japan. Not so much a retirement home as such, more a Summer home for the SANZAR guys.


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    #4511
    Rugbymad96
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 49 ✭Rugbymad96


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    I wonder if this will become like the MLS in soccer. A sort of retirement home for European/SANZAR players. Although I suppose even if the pace is a few steps down the physical aspects are still there, soccer not being a contact sport has the advantage there.

    Europe is the retirement home for SH players


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    #4512
    neelia11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 424 ✭✭neelia11


    Rugbymad96 wrote: »
    Europe is the retirement home for SH players

    France is you mean .......


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    #4513
    errlloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 12,604 ✭✭✭✭errlloyd


    To be fair, Matfield and De Villiers are in England.


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    #4514
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    The line-up for the play-off stage of the European Rugby Challenge Cup Qualifying Competition is now confirmed with Enisei of Russia and Romania's Timisoara Saracens and Italy's Calvisano and Femi-CZ Rugby Rovigo fighting it out for 2 spots.
    Saturday 9 April
    (kick-offs local times)
    Femi-CZ Rugby Rovigo v Enisei Rugby Club, Stadio Mario Battaglini (16.00)
    Timisoara Saracens v Rugby Calvisano, Dan Paltinisanu Stadium (15.00)

    Saturday 23 April
    Enisei Rugby Club v Femi-CZ Rugby Rovigo, Sochi venue
    Rugby Calvisano v Timisoara Saracens, Peroni Stadium (16.00)


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    #4515
    bilston
    Registered Users Posts: 17,775 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    I see Georgia beat Romania 38-9 in front of 50,000 in Tblissi today to win the Nations Cup.

    I said it on the Wales Italy thread but there can no longer be a viable rugby reason as to why a promotion/relegation play off can't be introduced for the 6Ns.

    There are commercial issues at stake of course but actually it seems to me that Rugby would have a higher ceiling in somehwere like Georgia where it is a big deal as opposed to Italy where it barely registers anywhere south of Milan.

    https://youtu.be/ox_3hc-V_qA


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    #4516
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,267 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    I reckon Italy would destroy the nations cup, Georgia would have nowhere near the depth to compete in the 6N and we'd have the same scenario with different jerseys.

    Georgia need to have 2-3 nailed on test games a year first IMO.


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    #4517
    bilston
    Registered Users Posts: 17,775 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    pickarooney wrote: »
    I reckon Italy would destroy the nations cup, Georgia would have nowhere near the depth to compete in the 6N and we'd have the same scenario with different jerseys.

    Georgia need to have 2-3 nailed on test games a year first IMO.

    I used to think that but Italy are terrible at the minute, really terrible. They have injuries of course but the depth you mention is something that is lacking with Italy as well. We may get the same situation with Georgia but they should be given the opportunity via a play off.


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    #4518
    neelia11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 424 ✭✭neelia11


    bilston wrote: »
    I used to think that but Italy are terrible at the minute, really terrible. They have injuries of course but the depth you mention is something that is lacking with Italy as well. We may get the same situation with Georgia but they should be given the opportunity via a play off.

    It was said on BBC yesterday they are missing 19 players. For Italy that is too much to deal with and remain competitive. Canna, Haimona, Padovano and Allan at 10. Constantly changing their tight 5 especially.


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    #4519
    Utah_Saint
    Registered Users Posts: 1,790 ✭✭✭Utah_Saint


    i think Georgia deserve a chance, if that means a few test matches a year then so be it but we really need to move at a faster pace.


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    #4520
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,200 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    Georgia are in limbo. I don't think they should be brought into the 6N. They're nowhere near good enough but they're clearly too good for their current level. World Rugby should look at a minimum of 3-4 top tier tests for them each year in summer and autumn to try and bring them up.

    To underline their current standard, Emerging Ireland beat them 45-12 in Georgia last summer. The bulk of the players that played for Georgia that day went to the RWC.

    Emerging Italy beat them 26-10 in the same tournament. Italy are clearly far better than them but have really struggled to make the step up in recent seasons after some promising matches.


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    #4521
    Bazzo
    Registered Users Posts: 7,047 ✭✭✭Bazzo


    Yeah I'm not sold on the relegation thing tbh. I saw some journalists etc were actually promoting a straight 1 place relegation/promotion which is insanity because it'd just be Georgia and Italy yo-yoing in and out every year except maybe 1 year when the big lads have a bad day at the office a la France & Ireland a few years back. That would lead to one of them being relegated, ending up in the lower tier competition where they humiliate everyone and in the mean time their and the 6 nations finances take a huge blow because of the whole mess.

    Honestly, and I know there are several reasons why it probably can't happen, I think that just adding Georgia to the tournament and making it a 7 nations would be a better idea.


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    #4522
    connemara man
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional West Moderators Posts: 6,773 Mod ✭✭✭✭connemara man


    Bazzo wrote: »
    Yeah I'm not sold on the relegation thing tbh. I saw some journalists etc were actually promoting a straight 1 place relegation/promotion which is insanity because it'd just be Georgia and Italy yo-yoing in and out every year except maybe 1 year when the big lads have a bad day at the office a la France & Ireland a few years back. That would lead to one of them being relegated, ending up in the lower tier competition where they humiliate everyone and in the mean time their and the 6 nations finances take a huge blow because of the whole mess.

    Honestly, and I know there are several reasons why it probably can't happen, I think that just adding Georgia to the tournament and making it a 7 nations would be a better idea.

    A play off in in the November series would fix that relegation issue though. a match between the lowest 6 nations team and the winner of the nation's cup. Winner Internet the 6 nations. Until the nation's cup standard increases and a proper European tournament of some sort can start


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    #4523
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    bilston wrote: »
    I see Georgia beat Romania 38-9 in front of 50,000 in Tblissi today to win the Nations Cup.

    I said it on the Wales Italy thread but there can no longer be a viable rugby reason as to why a promotion/relegation play off can't be introduced for the 6Ns.

    There are commercial issues at stake of course but actually it seems to me that Rugby would have a higher ceiling in somehwere like Georgia where it is a big deal as opposed to Italy where it barely registers anywhere south of Milan.

    https://youtu.be/ox_3hc-V_qA
    Rugby has a higher ceiling potentially in Georgia but the commercial issues means it wont ever happen.
    pickarooney wrote: »
    I reckon Italy would destroy the nations cup, Georgia would have nowhere near the depth to compete in the 6N and we'd have the same scenario with different jerseys.

    Georgia need to have 2-3 nailed on test games a year first IMO.
    Italy possibly would comfortably win a lot of games in nations cup but considering Italy never play Georgia, only have played once ever, then we don't know how theyd do against top nations cup sides.
    Georgia have more than enough depth up front its out wide theyd struggle but theyre getting more and more players in backs involved in pro sides in france.
    Georgia do need several tests against "tier 1" sides every year but how do you propose them to get them. Should they get 1 in June as well as 2 in November or all in November...
    Buer wrote: »
    Georgia are in limbo. I don't think they should be brought into the 6N. They're nowhere near good enough but they're clearly too good for their current level. World Rugby should look at a minimum of 3-4 top tier tests for them each year in summer and autumn to try and bring them up.

    To underline their current standard, Emerging Ireland beat them 45-12 in Georgia last summer. The bulk of the players that played for Georgia that day went to the RWC.

    Emerging Italy beat them 26-10 in the same tournament. Italy are clearly far better than them but have really struggled to make the step up in recent seasons after some promising matches.
    Georgia had very much 2nd string team involved in that competition last summer against Emerging Ireland, Italy.


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    #4524
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,931 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    Would it matter if Georgia (or whoever) never won this hypothetical play off? At the very least it would guarantee them a high profile international against a Tier 1 side every year.


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    #4525
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,561 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Relegation from the six nations wouldn't work. Without the stability it's hard to see how Italy would improve. How could they budget if six nations money wasn't guaranteed each year?


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    #4526
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    awec wrote: »
    Relegation from the six nations wouldn't work. Without the stability it's hard to see how Italy would improve. How could they budget if six nations money wasn't guaranteed each year?

    But should they be guarranteed that stability and that 6 Nations money just because they happened to be the best bad team a while ago when the committee were feeling somewhat generous?

    I've made my thoughts known on it. The committee needs to go. Time for the sport to grow up a little bit, time to outgrow these nascent committees.


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    #4527
    connemara man
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional West Moderators Posts: 6,773 Mod ✭✭✭✭connemara man


    Something has to give in European rugby in general, the big teams are protected from any dips in form or talent coming through and the 2nd tier aren't afforded the opportunities to really step up in terms of internationals.


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    #4528
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,931 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    What about creating a second tier for the Pro 12 with relegation and promotions?

    It could in theory allow for club sides from Georgia or Romania to play regular games and the possibility of them playing in the Pro 12 proper could be a good way of keeping players playing in their own country. A one club country something like Los Jaguares are now.

    Or would you be looking at all the same issues as you are when talking about the national sides?


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    #4529
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    What about creating a second tier for the Pro 12 with relegation and promotions?

    It could in theory allow for club sides from Georgia or Romania to play regular games and the possibility of them playing in the Pro 12 proper could be a good way of keeping players playing in their own country. A one club country something like Los Jaguares are now.

    Or would you be looking at all the same issues as you are when talking about the national sides?
    Who enters this second tier? It needs to be commercially viable if its to help the league. The tier 1 countries do need to work better to help Georgia, Romania etc but we need to help the league and does a Georgian side help it?
    How many teams enter this second tier and from where? Who would fund all these sides in this second tier?


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    #4530
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,267 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    I think a club/country team for Georgia would be a great idea if there was a spot for them. Maybe Italy need to do the same by combining Zebre and Treviso and free up that slot?


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    #4531
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    pickarooney wrote: »
    I think a club/country team for Georgia would be a great idea if there was a spot for them. Maybe Italy need to do the same by combining Zebre and Treviso and free up that slot?
    Does Italy combining Zebre and Treviso into 1 side help them? And I don't see the Welsh, Scottish, Irish sides/unions agreeing to this. Italians had to pay several million to join. Would Georgians be able to afford that?


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