Cycling demographics - no kids on bikes

fat bloke · 24-02-2016 11:27PM #1

We all know cycling has undergone a massive change in terms of popularity of late. Leisure cycling on the increase, races over subscribed, lads selling their Grannies for ROK tickets etc etc.

. But is it demographically doomed to declination?
I work in a primary school in suburban South Dublin. About 250 kids I reckon. -5 bikes. That's about how many cycle. I also live near the largest primary school in the country - Colmcille's junior and senior which between them must have nearly 2500 children. Ok, granted, the infants classes aren't really going to cycle (though there is an junior infant comes to our school on a balance bike fair play to her!), but you could be forgiven for thinking the morning traffic must be thronged with kids on bikes cycling to school.

- Nope. Not at all.

Plenty of them walk it has to be said. This is not a anti-car rant, or an anti-anything rant really. I just wonder why more don't cycle. There's a lad I pass every evening walking home and I can't understand why he's not on a bike - turn his 15 minute walk into a 5 minute cycle. I also wonder - if these children don't grow up using a bike to get around, will they ever do so? Will they wait til they're 40 and paunchy and their own kids are out of nappies and then go out and join a club, join cycling Ireland and buy a road bike? A lot of people are doing today, but I was under the general impression that they were folks who had cycled as kids and were only coming back to a sport or activity in which they had previously participated.

The other thing is I guess, no more than Brazilian tiki-taka football skills, if you don't learn your bike handling skills cycling around your back garden or front yard when you're young, they're never quite going to take when you're older.

I guess the people who frequent this forum are more likely to have their kids on bikes, but the empty (or worse - non-existent) bike racks in front of our schools makes me wonder for the future of our current cycling boom.

JBokeh · 24-02-2016 11:43PM

Kids just don't seem to be as outdoorsy as they were in days gone by. Kids always used to play in the streets, we were in the country side, so we would cycle a few km to our friends houses, cycle a few more km to the shop, buy some sweets, eat them, cycle to the fortress we had built in the forest, and get home just in time for dinner. Must have done that every day every summer until we discovered girls.
We had no mobile phones, jut knew what time to come home, none of us got in any stranger's transit vans.

The kids in my area play on bikes a bit, but I've never seen them going any further than the end of our road, I doubt they cycle to the local school, which is around 3km away. I think the kids now might be a bit wilder, but are kept on a tighter leash than they were 20 years ago, we were the last of the feral children

flatface · 25-02-2016 12:19AM

I was surprised by the amount of bikes at my kids school, lots of parents dropping off with bikes too.

As bike to work gets parents comuting, those parents are more likely to encourage their kids to cycle I guess.

Peterx · 25-02-2016 12:30AM

Christmas Day in a housing estate told the same sorry tale a few years ago.
I went for a walk to sample the fresh air after a good breakfast and before mandatory mass only to find I had the place to myself, not a single child out on a bike, scooter or skateboard. Mad Ted.

Wishbone Ash · 25-02-2016 12:51AM

fat bloke wrote: »

....I guess the people who frequent this forum are more likely to have their kids on bikes....

My 14 year old daughter wouldn't be caught dead anywhere near a bike or near me when I'm in Lycra!

Domane · 25-02-2016 12:54AM

All my kids have bikes but rarely use them, much to my annoyance. They'll sit for hours playing Call of Duty or on their tablets when I'm in work even if the sun is shining outside. Jeez when I was a kid, I was never in, even if it was pissing rain outside. I'm still the same, rather be outside no matter the weather. However the current young generation are a bunch of couch potatoes, afraid to go outside for fear of getting hurt. It's not that I'm an overly protective parent, in fact I encourage my kids to run, cycle, climb trees etc. However they're taught all about personal safety in school that I think it makes the paranoid and afraid to take risks, no matter how small. My kids school has over 700 pupils but I've never seen any of them cycle to school. All dropped off by mommy or daddy at the school gate. Have to agree with the OP, what's the future of cycling if kids aren't taking to two wheels now? Will they start cycling when they're 40 with stabilisers on their road bikes?

flatface · 25-02-2016 08:36AM

“There has probably never been a generation since the Paleolithic that did not deplore the fecklessness of the next and worship a golden memory of the past”

smacl · 25-02-2016 09:08AM

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

My 14 year old daughter wouldn't be caught dead anywhere near a bike or near me when I'm in Lycra!

Silmilar enough with my two girls, 12 and 16, if I'm wearing lycra I'd better come in the side door if they've mates around. The principal blocking factors for mine have been helmets and high-viz on the one side coupled with parental road safety fears on the other. The 16 year old used the bike a bit over the summer to get to friends houses, and a few of her friends are regular cyclists. The youngest is going to a secondary about 7k from the house and given that it would be two buses has decided cycling is the way to go, which is great. Wearing a helmet and having independence slightly trumps being seen with parents.

The other blocker to cycling to school is that the number and weight of school books has gone up considerably over the years, with printers pushing workbooks that you fill in rather than separate text books and copies that might get passed on to a sibling hence killing off a future sale. To get our daughter to cycle to school will probably involve getting two copies of they heavier text books (and hopefully encouraging the staff to use on-line material and project work).

jamesd · 25-02-2016 09:14AM

Our club is running a cycling Ireland course called Sprocket Rocket for kids, we limited it to 12 kids for the first set of classes and had to turn many kids away.
Excellent way to get kids interested in cycling.

Macy0161 · 25-02-2016 10:12AM

smacl wrote: »

The other blocker to cycling to school is that the number and weight of school books has gone up considerably over the years, with printers pushing workbooks that you fill in rather than separate text books and copies that might get passed on to a sibling hence killing off a future sale. To get our daughter to cycle to school will probably involve getting two copies of they heavier text books (and hopefully encouraging the staff to use on-line material and project work).

I walked my chaps to school yesterday, both in national school. I carried their bags, as even at 1st and 2nd class and they were heavy enough. If I was cycle commuting with that weight every day, they'd be going on a rack not the back tbh. I've asked this before, I'm not sure there are pannier rack options (that'd take the weight) for children's bikes? You'd be looking at seat post options, which I don't think would take the weight.

Both walking them to school, and when I was walking to collect them, I had a close pass each way (i.e. 2 out of 4 trips) on the rural, on road section. I have to say, I'm not sure I'd be entirely comfortable even with me beside them, given the attitude/ ignorance of some motorists to giving enough space to cyclists or pedestrians.

Seaswimmer · 25-02-2016 10:31AM

One of the other main factors reducing cycling numbers in kids/teenagers is that often there is no functioning bike easily available to them.

Most people on this forum will have their kids bikes ready to go, well maintained and easily available.

However the norm in my experience from my own family and friends is that the bike sits in the shed for a few weeks and when the child finally gets it from behind the lawnmower and other garden implements the tyres are flat, gears/brakes broken so they look for an alternative and decide cycling is a hassle..

My wife has recently taken up functional cycling around the area for shopping, meeting friends ect and a major factor (in her opinion) that got her going was that she knew when she opened the shed door the bike was there, tyres pumped, working lights, lock and key at the ready.

We have to make it easy for them...

daragh_ · 25-02-2016 10:33AM

Lot's of kids in our primary cycle to school or come strapped on to bikes of some description.

I generally walk (well I cycle they walk) my two youngest girls to school. We are less than 10 minutes away and on good days they might hop on the bikes. They do a lot of after-school stuff, not always at the school so it isn't always practical to take the bikes.

My eldest (14) got a bike to cycle to school (roughly a 20 minute walk) but she's a fair weather cyclist. The bike is used for school runs and going to visit her pals when it gets warm. Any sniff of rain and she'll walk.

My middle gal (10) has a road bike and is interested in the sport. She's been to Corkagh Park with me a few times and I can see her having a go when she gets a bit bigger and I feel comfortable taking her out on the road. I encourage her interest but am treading carefully as I know how these things go. Has to be her decision :rolleyes:

ThisRegard · 25-02-2016 10:39AM

I think it's a combination of things. Sadly, (more so applies to secondary level) theft and vandalism might be an issue due to the lack, or poor, lock up facilities. You'll see a load of parents walk home from dropping their kids off carrying or pushing the bikes back with them. Back in the 80s I rarely cycled to school for fear my bike either wouldn't be there when I came out, or was bent in half. I'd have the same fear now.

The other is a bit of a catch 22. There's 4 primary schools within walking distance of my house. I see a few kids who live around me cycle or scoot in, and they can take a short cut through the park into the school grounds so have a safe enough journey. But once you get anywhere near the school from the other direction it's mayhem, cars parked all over the place, including the off road cycle lanes. So the presence of all these cars would have a negative affect on parents bringing their kids on bikes.

I've often wondered why the schools aren't more proactive in fighting against this, but in fairness a large part of this is due to the laziness of the parents themselves.

Seaswimmer · 25-02-2016 10:39AM

Macy0161 wrote: »

I walked my chaps to school yesterday, both in national school. I carried their bags, as even at 1st and 2nd class and they were heavy enough. If I was cycle commuting with that weight every day, they'd be going on a rack not the back tbh. I've asked this before, I'm not sure there are pannier rack options (that'd take the weight) for children's bikes? You'd be looking at seat post options, which I don't think would take the weight.

Both walking them to school, and when I was walking to collect them, I had a close pass each way (i.e. 2 out of 4 trips) on the rural, on road section. I have to say, I'm not sure I'd be entirely comfortable even with me beside them, given the attitude/ ignorance of some motorists to giving enough space to cyclists or pedestrians.

When I was going to school we usually walked or cycled with our bags. As the bags got heavier we got older and stronger in parallel so by senior cycle we were carrying weights which would shock modern kids.
Nowdays if they have to carry anything it comes as a complete shock because they were never used to it..

tunney · 25-02-2016 10:44AM

fat bloke wrote: »

We all know cycling has undergone a massive change in terms of popularity of late. Leisure cycling on the increase, races over subscribed, lads selling their Grannies for ROK tickets etc etc. . But is it demographically doomed to declination?
I work in a primary school in suburban South Dublin. About 250 kids I reckon. -5 bikes. That's about how many cycle. I also live near the largest primary school in the country - Colmcille's junior and senior which between them must have nearly 2500 children. Ok, granted, the infants classes aren't really going to cycle (though there is an junior infant comes to our school on a balance bike fair play to her!), but you could be forgiven for thinking the morning traffic must be thronged with kids on bikes cycling to school.

- Nope. Not at all.

Plenty of them walk it has to be said. This is not a anti-car rant, or an anti-anything rant really. I just wonder why more don't cycle. There's a lad I pass every evening walking home and I can't understand why he's not on a bike - turn his 15 minute walk into a 5 minute cycle. I also wonder - if these children don't grow up using a bike to get around, will they ever do so? Will they wait til they're 40 and paunchy and their own kids are out of nappies and then go out and join a club, join cycling Ireland and buy a road bike? A lot of people are doing today, but I was under the general impression that they were folks who had cycled as kids and were only coming back to a sport or activity in which they had previously participated.

The other thing is I guess, no more than Brazilian tiki-taka football skills, if you don't learn your bike handling skills cycling around your back garden or front yard when you're young, they're never quite going to take when you're older.

I guess the people who frequent this forum are more likely to have their kids on bikes, but the empty (or worse - non-existent) bike racks in front of our schools makes me wonder for the future of our current cycling boom.

Why don't more cycle? Because mornings are rushed, kids must get to schools or breakfast clubs before people get to work. Two working parents is not a good thing and regardless of what people tell themselves isn't ideal for the kids. (and people don't HAVE to both work, just like they don't HAVE to have the fanciest bikes/handbags/clothes/holidays)

07Lapierre · 25-02-2016 10:45AM

Seaswimmer wrote: »

When I was going to school we usually walked or cycled with our bags. As the bags got heavier we got older and stronger in parallel so by senior cycle we were carrying weights which would shock modern kids.
Nowdays if they have to carry anything it comes as a complete shock because they were never used to it..

I never carried a bag to school, I had one of these....

http://www.tandem-bicycle-central.com/images/backrack.jpg

fat bloke · 25-02-2016 10:46AM

Just to add my own experience, I cycle to school most days (bit of driving on the sh1tty days over the winter, but it's bikes every day this weather), with my two girls (10 and 12). They'd rather drive always given the choice and they very very rarely take their bikes out unprompted, but cycling to school gives us all an extra half hour in bed!

As regards the safety of the route - it's very odd how the haphazard and piecemeal the cycling infrastructure is. For half the route the cycle path is over the other side of the road only. Of course if you're on the cycle path you are lowest priority and have to yield to everything - every driveway, every junction. I cycle on them primarily on the road except for one section where the traffic backs up, so rather than filtering up the left hand side sucking on diesel fumes, I take them up on the path.

Motorists are cognisant enough I find when it's kids. Much more so than they would be to me on my own on a road bike. I suppose I'm very obviously a Daddy shepherding offspring and people realise that.

Seaswimmer · 25-02-2016 10:46AM

tunney wrote: »

Why don't more cycle? Because mornings are rushed, kids must get to schools or breakfast clubs before people get to work. Two working parents is not a good thing and regardless of what people tell themselves isn't ideal for the kids. (and people don't HAVE to both work, just like they don't HAVE to have the fanciest bikes/handbags/clothes/holidays)

Heretic..

smacl · 25-02-2016 10:49AM

Macy0161 wrote: »

You'd be looking at seat post options, which I don't think would take the weight.

Looking at getting an Islabike with rack and panniers for the 12 year old. Not a cheap option, but a worthwhile investment IMO. We rebuilt an old raleigh for her a couple of years ago, which was great fun as a project but the bike ended up being too heavy for her and didn't get much use. I reckon a Beinn 26" should prove to be a very functional commuter for her, given her route will be a bit hilly. I'll probably also have a look for local alternatives and see how they stack up.

Seaswimmer · 25-02-2016 10:49AM

07Lapierre wrote: »

I never carried a bag to school, I had one of these....

http://www.tandem-bicycle-central.com/images/backrack.jpg

that's posh.

Most of us had the old style school bag with 2 buckles that you could close over the crossbar. Something like the picture but not real leather.
images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRnT3NJDGlpDlC63e3uwktLPSArFKFVuphIaIZeiyzVTRPZ2PqZ

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRnT3NJDGlpDlC63e3uwktLPSArFKFVuphIaIZeiyzVTRPZ2PqZ

Chips Lovell · 25-02-2016 10:50AM

I think its getting better in the past few years. I did a few sportives during the summer and the one thing that struck me was the number of kids doing them. You'd never see a kid four or five years ago.

See a lot more kids cycling to school around my area too. Still quite low, but at least it seems to be on the increase.

07Lapierre · 25-02-2016 11:05AM

Seaswimmer wrote: »

that's posh.

Most of us had the old style school bag with 2 buckles that you could close over the crossbar. Something like the picture but not real leather.

A carrier was Posh???? no way...everyone had one.

07Lapierre · 25-02-2016 11:08AM

Actually...this is the type of "carrier" I had on my bike when I was a kid...

http://www.mytenspeeds.com/My_TenSpeeds_1/Bicycles_Table/Italian_Bicycles/Chiorda_Bicycles/Chiorda_Mixte_Yellow_2/Chiorda_Build/Chiorda_Build_Luggage_Rack_1.jpg

Macy0161 · 25-02-2016 11:13AM

Seaswimmer wrote: »

When I was going to school we usually walked or cycled with our bags. As the bags got heavier we got older and stronger in parallel so by senior cycle we were carrying weights which would shock modern kids.
Nowdays if they have to carry anything it comes as a complete shock because they were never used to it..

They carry it normally - they are normally brought in the car, but not dropped at the school gate and are normally parked at the end of the village and walked up carrying their own bags. It was purely because I was making them walk from home!

I'm not going to get on their back(?) too much - I've a rack and bags for my commuter, bit hypocritical to expect them to put it on their back.

I'd love to get them Islabikes - but even if we could afford them, I'm not sure I'd trust leaving them, and despite the age difference they're the same height so it's two at a time!

smacl · 25-02-2016 11:19AM

07Lapierre wrote: »

Actually...this is the type of "carrier" I had on my bike when I was a kid...

http://www.mytenspeeds.com/My_TenSpeeds_1/Bicycles_Table/Italian_Bicycles/Chiorda_Bicycles/Chiorda_Mixte_Yellow_2/Chiorda_Build/Chiorda_Build_Luggage_Rack_1.jpg

Essential piece of kit for giving your mates backers going down steeper hills.

07Lapierre · 25-02-2016 11:25AM

Actually I think Bike theft at schools is a big deterrent to kids cycling. Even when I was going to school, bikes stolen from the school was not uncommon. Even now when I cycle to work, my bike is indoors behind Two security doors. there's no way I'd leave it locked outside

daragh_ · 25-02-2016 11:27AM

tunney wrote: »

and people don't HAVE to both work

That's great news. Will you ring my bank manager etc and tell them? :rolleyes:

Tenzor07 · 25-02-2016 12:16PM

Seaswimmer wrote: »

One of the other main factors reducing cycling numbers in kids/teenagers is that often there is no functioning bike easily available to them.

Hang on a second, back in the day if a bike had 2 tyres a chain and a saddle and little else it was used!
Doesn't have to have disc brakes and electronic gear shifting and be sitting outside the door waiting on a kid does it?

rflynnr · 25-02-2016 12:42PM

This is how me and the two kids go to work/school everyday.

There's no puzzle to it: the school is slightly too far away to walk, we only have one car (which my wife uses on weekdays) and although, in theory, there's a bus service it proved too unreliable for routine use. The kids understand that the bike is the best option in terms of time, reliability and flexibility so even when the weather's inclement they - sometimes somewhat grudgingly I'll admit - kit up and clamber on. When they start at secondary school, they will cycle the 5km route for precisely the same reasons: there is no better alternative.

I have considered encouraging them to cycle on their own bikes up to school but for a variety of logistical reasons (mainly, a complicated set of post-school childcare arrangements) it is easier not to. I would be reluctant to consider allowing them to cycle
alone to and from school because the only viable routes are traffic heavy although I recognise this is probably over-protective and not necessarily based on any rational assessment of the risks (but, hey, these are my kids).

(I should add - the bike in the pic isn't literally mine but is - bar the colour - identical.)

jimmycrackcorm · 25-02-2016 12:49PM

My wife was nervous about our mini-me cycling to school in primary, but he does every day now in secondary.

Seaswimmer · 25-02-2016 01:08PM

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Hang on a second, back in the day if a bike had 2 tyres a chain and a saddle and little else it was used!
Doesn't have to have disc brakes and electronic gear shifting and be sitting outside the door waiting on a kid does it?

Ah yes but back in the day you had little or no choice. It was either cycle, walk, bus or not go anywhere. The family car was used for the weekly shop and a drive on Sundays. I don't think I ever got a lift anywhere in all the years I lived at home.

But human nature dictates that if something is hard or involves a bit of effort then we seek an easier alternative. So it if it means that kids will cycle instead of looking for a lift then by all means have it sitting outside the door waiting for them (or somewhere equally accessible)

Cycling demographics - no kids on bikes

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