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Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread VI: End of the MOC [Revenge of the STH]

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    #9212
    swiwi_
    Registered Users Posts: 4,490 ✭✭✭swiwi_


    O'Brien, Heaslip, Ruddock, VDF, Murphy, Conan, Leavy, Ryan

    I'm a bit surprised some of the lads at the end of the list haven't headed to Ulster. Would seem like the perfect time to basically get guaranteed game time (even at European level) and a chance to impress Schmidt. Ulster could probably afford 2 if not 3 of these players for the price of a major marquee international signing. Leinster's gain is Ulster's loss!


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    #9213
    Hagz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,257 ✭✭✭Hagz


    College plays a role certainly for the young lads. I can't see VdF or Leavy leaving while they are still in UCD. SOB, Ruddock and Heaslip aren't going anywhere while they occupy the starting positions.


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    #9214
    shuffol
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,883 ✭✭✭shuffol


    Just see VDF is down as making 24 tackles against Connacht, that's twice the next highest Leinster player, when his physicality improves and he gets harder to shift off the ball he's going to be a hell of a player. Seems quite similar in style to Dusatoir.


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    #9215
    jacothelad
    Registered Users Posts: 5,922 ✭✭✭jacothelad


    shuffol wrote: »
    Just see VDF is down as making 24 tackles against Connacht, that's twice the next highest Leinster player, when his physicality improves and he gets harder to shift off the ball he's going to be a hell of a player. Seems quite similar in style to Dusatoir.

    He's been magnificent so far. A few extra kilos of muscle cover will make him even better. What a prospect. He reminds me in some ways of a bigger version of Nigel Carr, once described by the late Bill Mclaren as a 'hunting dog of a wing forward,' which was a great description of him. For those who didn't ever see him, he was as about as fast as any Ulster back at the time including Keith Crossan and Trevor Ringland and hit tackles like a fast moving truck. Sadly, his career was cut short.


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    #9216
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    swiwi_ wrote: »
    O'Brien, Heaslip, Ruddock, VDF, Murphy, Conan, Leavy, Ryan

    I'm a bit surprised some of the lads at the end of the list haven't headed to Ulster. Would seem like the perfect time to basically get guaranteed game time (even at European level) and a chance to impress Schmidt. Ulster could probably afford 2 if not 3 of these players for the price of a major marquee international signing. Leinster's gain is Ulster's loss!

    I could understand Ryan leaving and maybe Murphy, but while I don't know about the lads themselves, Leinster would be very, very reluctant to let Leavy or Conan go. Leavy particularly has huge potential and was always seen as a bigger prospect at 7 than VdF. That doesn't really mean anything anymore considering how VdF is playing, but I still think Leinster would hugely regret letting him go


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    #9217
    aimee1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭aimee1


    Tox56 wrote: »
    I could understand Ryan leaving and maybe Murphy, but while I don't know about the lads themselves, Leinster would be very, very reluctant to let Leavy or Conan go. Leavy particularly has huge potential and was always seen as a bigger prospect at 7 than VdF. That doesn't really mean anything anymore considering how VdF is playing, but I still think Leinster would hugely regret letting him go

    With 4 backrows likely to be involved in national setup I think Leinster need to keep everyone on board.


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    #9218
    errlloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 12,604 ✭✭✭✭errlloyd


    51 players used by Leinster so far this season, the record is 52. Is there any player we can think of who might get involved this season and hasn't already?


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    #9219
    aimee1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭aimee1


    errlloyd wrote: »
    51 players used by Leinster so far this season, the record is 52. Is there any player we can think of who might get involved this season and hasn't already?

    Can we get Henshaw in early? And Mick Kearney has to come back ......


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    #9220
    the baby bull elephant
    Registered Users Posts: 1,328 ✭✭✭the baby bull elephant


    errlloyd wrote: »
    51 players used by Leinster so far this season, the record is 52. Is there any player we can think of who might get involved this season and hasn't already?

    Mick Kearney? Have Fanning and/or Mick McGrath taken the field this season?


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    #9221
    errlloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 12,604 ✭✭✭✭errlloyd


    aimee1 wrote: »
    Can we get Henshaw in early? And Mick Kearney has to come back ......

    Uncapped players on the website are Ian Hirst and Gavin Thornbury. Has Steve Crosbie played this season?


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    #9222
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    There's also the standard academy guys who will probably be in a better place to get involved at the end of the year. Guys coming to the end of their stint like Daly.

    Have Ed Byrne or Gavin Thornbury played this year? They may be fit by the end of the season.


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    #9223
    vienne86
    Registered Users Posts: 17,075 ✭✭✭✭vienne86


    the baby bull elephant wrote: »
    Mick Kearney? Have Fanning and/or Mick McGrath taken the field this season?

    I don't believe Fanning or McGrath have played for the senior team. What's the story with Kearney?


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    #9224
    sheep?
    Closed Accounts Posts: 824 ✭✭✭sheep?


    Injured his toe playing for Clontarf. Out till 'New Year' iirc.


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    #9225
    Tim Robbins
    Registered Users Posts: 8,972 ✭✭✭Tim Robbins


    Tox56 wrote: »
    I just don't think you can move SOB away from 7, and as good as VdF has been SOB is probably our best player full stop. Sucks for VdF and you wonder what will happen to both him and Leavy, you'd have to think there isn't room for all of them

    SOB could go to 6 and VdF at 7. Or Ruddock at 6 with SOB at 7.

    Or else it's time to give Ulster a flanker for a centre in return.


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    #9226
    Todd Toddington III
    Registered Users Posts: 605 ✭✭✭Todd Toddington III


    Tim Robbins wrote:
    Or else it's time to give Ulster a flanker for a centre in return.


    Bam bam for jordi Murphy, if he stays injury free


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    #9227
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    the baby bull elephant wrote: »
    Mick Kearney? Have Fanning and/or Mick McGrath taken the field this season?

    The new management seem to have taken a step backwards in terms of rewarding ALI talent, which is a pity.

    McGrath has featured in most of the B&I pool games so far afaik.


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    #9228
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,147 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    Don't think that's true.

    There's only so many guys we can put on the pitch at once and even during the RWC we'd McFadden and Ringrose to play on the wings ahead of Fanning and McGrath. There there was your man Kelleher in the mix too.


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    #9229
    errlloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 12,604 ✭✭✭✭errlloyd


    Both fanning and McGrath have one game this season.


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    #9230
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    .ak wrote: »
    The new management seem to have taken a step backwards in terms of rewarding ALI talent, which is a pity.

    McGrath has featured in most of the B&I pool games so far afaik.

    Any 'step back' in rewarding AIL talent has been giving academy players like Ringrose more opportunities, which imo is a far better situation overall. To be brutally honest about Fanning, he was at best a stop gap who wasn't as good in his prime of his career as Ringrose is now, and I'm not sure McGrath will ever be good enough, although I wouldn't mind him having a few games to prove himself, if the choice is between him and Kelleher getting games, I'd rather Kelleher


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    #9231
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    CatFromHue wrote: »
    Don't think that's true.

    There's only so many guys we can put on the pitch at once and even during the RWC we'd McFadden and Ringrose to play on the wings ahead of Fanning and McGrath. There there was your man Kelleher in the mix too.

    Well Ringrose ahead of them was pretty telling. The guy is not a winger, nor had he shown any reason to be ahead of them on the wing.

    I'm not saying that's a bad thing of anything, but the previous management was rewarding AIL form and the new management is obviously putting its trust in the youth and academy systems. Both are good, but I felt the idea of AIL players being rewarded would open up the AIL as a product people could get behind.


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    #9232
    Interested Observer
    Registered Users Posts: 13,051 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    errlloyd wrote: »
    Both fanning and McGrath have one game this season.

    Neither are anywhere good enough to play for Leinster. Cullen is totally correct in not playing either.


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    #9233
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    .ak wrote: »
    Well Ringrose ahead of them was pretty telling. The guy is not a winger, nor had he shown any reason to be ahead of them on the wing.

    I'm not saying that's a bad thing of anything, but the previous management was rewarding AIL form and the new management is obviously putting its trust in the youth and academy systems. Both are good, but I felt the idea of AIL players being rewarded would open up the AIL as a product people could get behind.
    Ringrose got game time on wing to help him get up to speed with that level. It was right to play GR on wing.
    I don't think AIL form is not being rewarded. Who isn't being picked who should/could? Does players coming through at 25/26 from AIL open AIL up for more people to follow?


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    #9234
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    Ringrose got game time on wing to help him get up to speed with that level. It was right to play GR on wing.
    I don't think AIL form is not being rewarded. Who isn't being picked who should/could? Does players coming through at 25/26 from AIL open AIL up for more people to follow?

    Yes, I believe it does, from both sides of the fence; the players, particularly club based, and the fans. It's a woefully marketed domestic league and the casual fans have no idea it's on half the time.

    For me McGrath was good enough to be involved during the WC, he's too good for AIL, I don't agree with GR being played ahead of other options on the wing, I still think Ringrose is a few years away from playing at senior level above pro12. I also hate seeing good centres on the wing.


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    #9235
    Hagz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,257 ✭✭✭Hagz


    Integrating Ringrose on the wing proved to be very intelligent player management. It's the kind of method I think someone like Brendan Macken would have benefited from.


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    #9236
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    Todd Toddington III wrote: »
    Bam bam for jordi Murphy, if he stays injury free

    Why bring in Bambam when R. Henshaw is the likely move ?


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    #9237
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    Hagz wrote: »
    Integrating Ringrose on the wing proved to be very intelligent player management. It's the kind of method I think someone like Brendan Macken would have benefited from.

    Wasn't it tried with Macken? Didn't work iirc


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    #9238
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    Hagz wrote: »
    Integrating Ringrose on the wing proved to be very intelligent player management. It's the kind of method I think someone like Brendan Macken would have benefited from.

    Macken got some time on the wing too AIR. Ringrose is just looks to be making the transition as if he is born for top flight rugby. Macken never looked comfortable from the start.


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    #9239
    Hagz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,257 ✭✭✭Hagz


    .ak wrote: »
    Wasn't it tried with Macken? Didn't work iirc

    It happened in his later years with Leinster.

    IIRC he was tried out very early on in the centre and broke his collarbone and was out for the better part of a season.


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    #9240
    Interested Observer
    Registered Users Posts: 13,051 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    .ak wrote: »
    Wasn't it tried with Macken? Didn't work iirc

    It's worked with some of the best centres of the professional era though.


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    #9241
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    .ak wrote: »
    Well Ringrose ahead of them was pretty telling. The guy is not a winger, nor had he shown any reason to be ahead of them on the wing.

    I'm not saying that's a bad thing of anything, but the previous management was rewarding AIL form and the new management is obviously putting its trust in the youth and academy systems. Both are good, but I felt the idea of AIL players being rewarded would open up the AIL as a product people could get behind.

    It may have something of the old amateur reward feeling to it, but is it really the way to pick a team ? Surely, if the investment is being put into the academy players, then giving them game time is the way to develop them best. Not jumping them for someone who may be playing well at a lower level, and is only a shortterm stopgap anyway. If they are really good enough, then they shouldnt be in the AIL. Injury plagues or exceptional circumstances excepted.


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