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Jonathan Clynch of RTE Radio News to become Jonathan Rachel Clynch #See post 1/81#

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  • 13-09-2015 1:02pm
    #1
    John Joe Jones
    Closed Accounts Posts: 297 ✭✭


    I must be an old fuddy duddy because I actually checked the calendar to see was it April 1st when I read this story www.radiotoday.ie/2015/09/rte-radio-news-presenter-to-dress-as-woman-at-work/

    Added:
    //MOD

    Since some people appear to have a slight issues with reading let me make this 100% clear:

    Try to be "funny" about Jonathan Rachel Clynch gender (or anyone else in similar situation) or bash him about it and you WILL be banned. There is very clearly outlined in the charter and multiple people are serving bans inc. permanent bans due to this. If you are so bloody insecure and immature that you can't handle the topic then I suggest you crawl back into your cave and never back out until you've matured and grown up.

    //MOD


«134

Comments

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    #2
    Lady Chatterton
    Registered Users Posts: 19,585 ✭✭✭✭Lady Chatterton


    Best of luck to Jonathan Rachel.

    I'm glad that RTE are being supportive, it can't have been an easy decision for Jonathan to take and no doubt he will have some challenging days ahead. I hope he finds happiness.


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    #3
    More Music
    Registered Users Posts: 870 ✭✭✭More Music


    As a TV license fee payer I feel I should say something😀

    But you know what, I don't give a damn. Fair play to him.


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    #4
    Max Headroom
    Registered Users Posts: 7,101 ✭✭✭Max Headroom


    which loo will he use then........:D


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    #5
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users Posts: 81,186 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    Don't see any problem with it provided anyone else employed by them can have a new name added if they so wish for whatever reason they want.


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    #6
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,709 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Atlantic Dawn wrote: »
    Don't see any problem with it provided anyone else employed by them can have a new name added if they so wish for whatever reason they want.

    RTE have plenty of current and former staff who never used their real name to begin with (Rick O'Shea being one obvious remaining one); so I suspect they'd never have a problem with that.


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    #7
    Csalem
    Registered Users Posts: 2,892 ✭✭✭Csalem


    Isn't more common than uncommon for people on radio not to use their real names?

    He was meant to be on Marion Finucane yesterday to discuss it but pulled out because of the newspaper coverage. Hopefully he will soon be ready and comfortable to discuss it publicly.


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    #8
    StonyIron
    Closed Accounts Posts: 409 ✭✭StonyIron


    Best of luck with the new identity!
    Jonathan's always been a decent reporter, so Jonathan Rachel will be too.


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    #9
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,709 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Csalem wrote: »
    Isn't more common than uncommon for people on radio not to use their real names?

    It's getting rarer these days, was mostly a pirate era thing. 25 years of commercial radio for people to have started off in at this stage


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    #10
    Second Toughest in_the Freshers
    Site Banned Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭Second Toughest in_the Freshers


    Know a guy whose middle name is Mary, (I presume it was a religious thing)


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    #11
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,709 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Second Toughest in_the Freshers wrote: »
    Know a guy whose middle name is Mary, (I presume it was a religious thing)

    It's relatively common amongst older men, I've some memory that it was done if the child was premature/very ill at birth in some religious belief that it'd help. Gay Byrne is Gabriel Mary Byrne for instance.


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    #12
    corsav6
    Registered Users Posts: 1,597 ✭✭✭corsav6


    Ya my uncle's middle name is Mary, I thought it was because he was born in a year dedicated to the christian virgin Mary. My ex's fathers middle name is Marian because he was born in 1954.


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    #13
    padd b1975
    Registered Users Posts: 10,703 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    I don't think it's remotely credible for a guy to practice political journalism whilst dressed as a woman.
    News at One has been weakened since SOR departed, this only brings it into the realms of laughing stock I'm afraid.

    If I guy want's to dress up as a woman, then it really should be kept within the confines of his private life, I like my current affairs broadcasting to have an air of gravitas about it, a man in women's clothes really has no place conducting a hard-hitting political interview.

    I can help but imagine what it would be like if it was 1982 again, and Clynch was grilling John Bruton about his VAT on children's shoes budget while wearing a pair of high heels!!

    Monty Python would struggle to writ better.


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    #14
    StonyIron
    Closed Accounts Posts: 409 ✭✭StonyIron


    Well, that's just your rather narrowminded transphobic opinion of the topic.

    Whether the journalist is male or female doesn't make the slightest bit of difference to what they so on air.

    Non-traditional gender identity is something that people are simply going to have to get over, as there is a minority of the population who very genuinely have gender identity issues. That isn't something that's going to go away and it's also not a topic of humour any more than bad Irish jokes are or jokes about Africans.

    Like or not, people like Jonathan/Rachel exist and I don't think that anyone has the right to make a mockery of them or to suggest they've no right to work.

    I'm 100% supporting him on this. It's hardly something anyone would do just for entertainment value as he's taking some steps onto what (with attitudes like the above) will be a very difficult road.

    Also, it takes serious guts to do what he's just done and if there's one thing I value in a reporter it's being fearless and not being afraid of peer pressure!


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    #15
    padd b1975
    Registered Users Posts: 10,703 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    StonyIron wrote: »
    Well, that's just your rather narrowminded transphobic opinion of the topic.
    One man's common sense is another's "transphobia".
    Typical of this site as a whole really.
    Whether the journalist is male or female doesn't make the slightest bit of difference to what they so on air.
    Agreed.
    Unfortunately Clynch falls between the two whilst "en femme".
    Non-traditional gender identity is something that people are simply going to have to get over
    Are they now?

    Who appointed you judge, jury and executioner of what other people find acceptable?
    as there is a minority of the population who very genuinely have gender identity issues. That isn't something that's going to go away
    No, it's not going to go away.
    Although Clynch, with his here today, gone tomorrow femininity, is only cheapening those with genuine issues.
    it's also not a topic of humour any more than bad Irish jokes are or jokes about Africans.
    Strawman.....
    Like or not, people like Jonathan/Rachel exist and I don't think that anyone has the right to make a mockery of them or to suggest they've no right to work.
    Humour is subjective, I've no problem with people who have a different sense of humour to me.

    Could you quote where I suggested he has no right to work?

    Also, it takes serious guts to do what he's just done and if there's one thing I value in a reporter it's being fearless and not being afraid of peer pressure!
    What peer pressure is he likely to encounter?

    RTE led the inevitable right-on stampede of acceptance.
    I suspect any right thinking RTE employee will be afraid to look sideways at him for fear of him becoming"offended".


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    #16
    StonyIron
    Closed Accounts Posts: 409 ✭✭StonyIron


    Great to see Ireland's moved on!

    Honestly, not even responding to the above.


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    #17
    heybaby
    Registered Users Posts: 1,125 ✭✭✭heybaby


    padd b1975 wrote: »
    One man's common sense is another's "transphobia".
    Typical of this site as a whole really.


    Agreed.
    Unfortunately Clynch falls between the two whilst "en femme".

    Are they now?

    Who appointed you judge, jury and executioner of what other people find acceptable?

    No, it's not going to go away.
    Although Clynch, with his here today, gone tomorrow femininity, is only cheapening those with genuine issues.

    Strawman.....

    Humour is subjective, I've no problem with people who have a different sense of humour to me.

    Could you quote where I suggested he has no right to work?


    What peer pressure is he likely to encounter?

    RTE led the inevitable right-on stampede of acceptance.
    I suspect any right thinking RTE employee will be afraid to look sideways at him for fear of him becoming"offended".

    While you're absolutely entitled to your opinion, your reasoning smacks of intolerance and fear.

    To suggest that because a news presenter who wears a skirt lacks credibility and gravitas is ludicrous and essentially dismisses every skirt wearing woman with contempt.

    Clinch is the same top quality respected journalist regardless of his gender identity or attire. To suggest his ongoing journey through the potential perils of gender exploration in any way robs him of his already proven journalistic acumen is pure nonsense.

    Clinch should be applauded for demonstrating courage so publically as should rte for showing loyalty but more than that, commonsense to their employee.

    It's 2015, Ireland is a very different secular inclusive society compared to that which you reference from the early 80's.

    Live and let live.


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    #18
    StonyIron
    Closed Accounts Posts: 409 ✭✭StonyIron


    I'm not the one acting as "judge, jury and execituoner" either.

    All I've said is trans people aren't going anywhere. They're just a part of this society and if you don't like that, tough!

    That's the reality of it. You don't get to chose who to exclude from society nor do you get to suggest someone's career is over because of their gender identity.

    As a society we've accepted trans people legally in 2015 so, don't go around excluding then socially and expect to be given Carte Blanche to so!

    Incidentally those Monty Python sketches are up to 45 years old! Happened decades before I was even born so, they're not exactly reflective of 2015!


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    #19
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 15,011 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    heybaby wrote: »
    While you're absolutely entitled to your opinion, your reasoning smacks of intolerance and fear.

    To suggest that because a news presenter who wears a skirt lacks credibility and gravitas is ludicrous and essentially dismisses every skirt wearing woman with contempt

    Clinch is the same top quality respected journalist regardless of his gender identity or attire. To suggest his ongoing journey through the potential perils of gender exploration in any way robs him of his already proven journalistic acumen is pure nonsense.

    Clinch should be applauded for demonstrating courage so publically as should rte for showing loyalty but more than that, commonsense to their employee.

    It's 2015, Ireland is a very different secular inclusive society compared to that which you reference from the early 80's.

    Live and let live.

    But that's not what the poster is saying and you know it's not.

    A reporter who is one day male the next day female the next day male again lacks credibility and gravitas


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    #20
    heybaby
    Registered Users Posts: 1,125 ✭✭✭heybaby


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    But that's not what the poster is saying and you know it's not.

    A reporter who is one day male the next day female the next day male again lacks credibility and gravitas

    How exactly? Are you suggesting their journalistic standards are compromised by their gender ambiguity? Or are you suggesting that because someone's gender identity isn't set in stone, you have a problem taking them seriously as a broadcaster? If it's the latter then that is your problem to resolve not Clinch's and not RTE's.

    I think you are placing too much significance on the messenger and not enough on the message. For me, if a broadcaster is biased or just simply bad at their job, that would rob them of gravitas or credibility alot sooner than any gender ambiguity.

    I think also you underestimate society's ability not to give a sh!t about things like this anymore. Ive heard no outcry from the general population echoing fears voiced in this thread.


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    #21
    StonyIron
    Closed Accounts Posts: 409 ✭✭StonyIron


    It's only a few decades ago that the BBC would have had issues with regional accents.

    I have also heard the horror stories of some of the most talented sound artists in electronic music, the likes of Delia Derbyshire (largely responsible for the Doctor Who theme music and who was producing stuff that sounds like modern contemporary electronica in the early 60s), couldn't even get a job in a commercial record label because she was female.

    Move forward a couple of decades, it was still a problem to be gay and you'd tons of people hiding that.

    That gradually became a non-issue

    Move forward a bit further and you're finding that people's gender identity issues are now emerging from the shadows and into the open.

    What matters is your ability to broadcast, produce music, be a good journalist or whatever else it is you do. Your gender, skin colour, orientation etc etc is all totally irrelevant.

    I honestly think that countries like Ireland in 2015 are *far* healthier, happier, more socially integrated societies than they were back in the old days of conservatism where a large % of the population (for various reasons) were leaving in terror of being unable to conform with unrealistically starchy, inflexible, narrow-minded and deeply conservative views of what society should be rather than what it actually was.

    It's that kind of nonsense that has led Ireland and plenty of other places to very, very dark places like Magdalene laundries for people who didn't conform / fit in.

    I sincerely hope we've snapped out of that crap and learnt that people aren't all the same.

    What difference it make to anyone what someone reading the news is wearing or what their name is?!

    I'd rather see Irish society for what it actually is - very diverse, rather than some picture postcard of a married, straight couple dancing at the crossroads under the strict supervision of a nice nun (or however it was we liked to see ourselves in the 1950s).


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    #22
    RayM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,973 ✭✭✭RayM


    padd b1975 wrote: »
    I don't think it's remotely credible for a guy to practice political journalism whilst dressed as a woman.
    News at One has been weakened since SOR departed, this only brings it into the realms of laughing stock I'm afraid.

    If I guy want's to dress up as a woman, then it really should be kept within the confines of his private life, I like my current affairs broadcasting to have an air of gravitas about it, a man in women's clothes really has no place conducting a hard-hitting political interview.

    I can help but imagine what it would be like if it was 1982 again, and Clynch was grilling John Bruton about his VAT on children's shoes budget while wearing a pair of high heels!!

    Monty Python would struggle to writ better.

    Thankfully, ignorant bigots like you are dying out.


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    #23
    joe_six_cans
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 113 ✭✭joe_six_cans


    good for him but why exactly did he need to broadcast this to the public , i honestly had only vaguely heard of him until the weekend and i listen to quite a lot of talk radio , he is not a household name broadcaster - journalist


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    #24
    amdublin
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 20,650 CMod ✭✭✭✭amdublin


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    But that's not what the poster is saying and you know it's not.

    A reporter who is one day male the next day female the next day male again lacks credibility and gravitas



    Why???????


    The message being delivered by the PERSON is the same.


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    #25
    holyhead
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,249 ✭✭✭holyhead


    We live in very strange times! I think though he needs to show respect for his position and dress like a man would expect to be attired given his job. Let him wear whatever he wants out of work hours. He simply will not be taken seriously by those he interviews or the watching public dressed as a woman.


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    #26
    padd b1975
    Registered Users Posts: 10,703 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    amdublin wrote: »
    Why???????


    The message being delivered by the PERSON is the same.

    Except it's not if you look at it with the smallest bit of common sense...


    If you were to lose a loved one, and the male undertaker dealt with the funeral arrangements with the utmost professionalism but on the day of the actual funeral rocked up dressed as a woman while spouting some guff about "gender fluid"

    You'd be OK with that??


    another one....

    You're in hospital having some tests done, on the day that you receive your results, the male doctor arrives at your bedside in a dress?

    No problem whatsoever with that, or concerns about his professionalism?


    Maybe you find yourself on the wrong side of the law and needing legal representation in court?

    I would be amazed if your brief wasn't told in no uncertain terms by the judge that he wasn't suitably attired and was possibly in contempt of court.


    That's what I mean when I say a guy in a dress has little or no place in a serious professional environment.


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    #27
    amdublin
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 20,650 CMod ✭✭✭✭amdublin


    padd b1975 wrote: »
    Except it's not if you look at it with the smallest bit of common sense...


    If you were to lose a loved one, and the male undertaker dealt with the funeral arrangements with the utmost professionalism but on the day of the actual funeral rocked up dressed as a woman while spouting some guff about "gender fluid"

    You'd be OK with that??


    another one....

    You're in hospital having some tests done, on the day that you receive your results, the male doctor arrives at your bedside in a dress?

    No problem whatsoever with that, or concerns about his professionalism?


    Maybe you find yourself on the wrong side of the law and needing legal representation in court?

    I would be amazed if your brief wasn't told in no uncertain terms by the judge that he wasn't suitably attired and was possibly in contempt of court.


    That's what I mean when I say a guy in a dress has little or no place in a serious professional environment.


    I'd have no problem with that.


    Sometimes I wear a mens three piece with a tie etc to work (I am a woman), I do as good a job that day as the next when I am wearing a skirt.


    Ps. Gender fluid is not about what you wear, it's about who you are.


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    #28
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users Posts: 13,035 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    padd b1975 wrote: »
    I don't think it's remotely credible for a guy to practice political journalism whilst dressed as a woman.
    News at One has been weakened since SOR departed, this only brings it into the realms of laughing stock I'm afraid.

    If I guy want's to dress up as a woman, then it really should be kept within the confines of his private life, I like my current affairs broadcasting to have an air of gravitas about it, a man in women's clothes really has no place conducting a hard-hitting political interview.

    I can help but imagine what it would be like if it was 1982 again, and Clynch was grilling John Bruton about his VAT on children's shoes budget while wearing a pair of high heels!!

    Monty Python would struggle to writ better.

    You can't see what the presenters are wearing on the radio.


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    #29
    Second Toughest in_the Freshers
    Site Banned Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭Second Toughest in_the Freshers




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    #30
    padd b1975
    Registered Users Posts: 10,703 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    hotmail.com wrote: »
    You can't see what the presenters are wearing on the radio.
    It's when he's doing face to face interviews in studio I'm referring to.:cool:


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    #31
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,814 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    holyhead wrote: »
    We live in very strange times! I think though he needs to show respect for his position and dress like a man would expect to be attired given his job. Let him wear whatever he wants out of work hours. He simply will not be taken seriously by those he interviews or the watching public dressed as a woman.

    I love how these type of comments are assumptive that the entire Irish population will agree with them. It's actually quite hilarious.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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