DCM 2015: Mentored Novices Thread

Clearlier · 22-07-2015 10:28am

marf wrote: »

I have been the same since Clontarf. Don't know why either. I did pick up a niggle in my foot towards the end and that has affected me a bit but couldn't get my running mojo back either. Have tried to shove my way out the door anyway. Yesterday however I had a great run even though I made up all sorts of excuses not to go and because of that didn't get out till late. I feel rejuvenated and back on form so just hang on in there!

To paraphrase one of the great coaches:

- if you're feeling awful and the last thing that you want to do is run then don't think about the 5 or 10 miles that's on your plan, instead just step outside the front door and run for 10 minutes. If after 10 minutes you still feel awful turn back and do the run another day. You'll still have done 20 minutes

There's a whole host of reasons why when you feel tired and lethargic you should go for a run. In many of those cases running will give you energy.

Dubgal72 · 22-07-2015 11:09am

Morning everybody, sorry about yesterday, *life* sometimes gets in the way :rolleyes: Thanks Clearlier, meno and FBOT for holding the fort!

22-07-2015 11:13am

Clearlier wrote: »

To paraphrase one of the great coaches:

- if you're feeling awful and the last thing that you want to do is run then don't think about the 5 or 10 miles that's on your plan, instead just step outside the front door and run for 10 minutes. If after 10 minutes you still feel awful turn back and do the run another day. You'll still have done 20 minutes

There's a whole host of reasons why when you feel tired and lethargic you should go for a run. In many of those cases running will give you energy.

I wish I had read that yesterday, I really felt like I'd been hit by a bus and so made the decision to have dinner and an early night instead of running, and using today's rest day as a run day instead.

No big deal I guess, and my run will be better for it probably but still sorry I didn't just get up and get out.

FBOT01 · 22-07-2015 11:18am

Kennyg71 wrote: »

Not sure if u are doing calf strengthing excerise,
Lots of info on Internet or maybe advice from
Physio. Calf excerise really helps, I also invested
In some rubbing oil & and u can really work sore
Points with ur tumbs Working out knots.

I tore my calf earlier This year & Physio advised
hot water bottleTo calf for 10/15 mins before training,
helps To warm up calf. Best of luck .

How does Mrs KennyG feel about that? Did she fall for the "it's part of the training, Honey." line or did she see through you straight away?

Dubgal72 · 22-07-2015 11:45am

Clearlier wrote: »

To paraphrase one of the great coaches:

- if you're feeling awful and the last thing that you want to do is run then don't think about the 5 or 10 miles that's on your plan, instead just step outside the front door and run for 10 minutes. If after 10 minutes you still feel awful turn back and do the run another day. You'll still have done 20 minutes

There's a whole host of reasons why when you feel tired and lethargic you should go for a run. In many of those cases running will give you energy.

^^^ Saving this

My self-kick-out-the-door is "something is better than nothing"

diego_b · 22-07-2015 12:48pm

For me I have never regretted going for a run no matter how tired I feel and no matter how crap the weather maybe.
Also I have a thing that if I put on my running gear I have to go running, so far so good on that mantra....so I covertly change my clothes before my brain can go not tonight.

Quick one, for this weekends run the LSR is planned for 15miles....I have a route (basically run home from the parkrun in Tralee) which will give me 16miles. Is it okay to do the extra mile? I could get dropped a bit out the road on the way home but planning to mind my daughter in the playground whilst my wife is doing the park run....would love to volunteer again but my 3 year is a handful.

Dubgal72 · 22-07-2015 12:58pm

diego_b wrote: »

For me I have never regretted going for a run no matter how tired I feel and no matter how crap the weather maybe.
Also I have a thing that if I put on my running gear I have to go running, so far so good on that mantra....so I covertly change my clothes before my brain can go not tonight.

Quick one, for this weekends run the LSR is planned for 15miles....I have a route (basically run home from the parkrun in Tralee) which will give me 16miles. Is it okay to do the extra mile? I could get dropped a bit out the road on the way home but planning to mind my daughter in the playground whilst my wife is doing the park run....would love to volunteer again but my 3 year is a handful.

Hi diego, the extra mile shouldn't be a huge problem as you are not a complete stranger to the longer runs. Make sure you're fresh enough going into the run, start at the slower end of - even outside - your range and ease into it very gradually, as you would anyway. Assess frequently from mile 12 on, you are going to be tired but keep an eye on niggles etc. Slow right down at mile 15, you could stop at 15.5 miles and 'walk it out' the last half mile or so. This is something I find useful after a run of 12+ anyway.

diego_b · 22-07-2015 1:02pm

Dubgal72 wrote: »

Hi diego, the extra mile shouldn't be a huge problem as you are not a complete stranger to the longer runs. Make sure you're fresh enough going into the run, start at the slower end of - even outside - your range and ease into it very gradually, as you would anyway. Assess frequently from mile 12 on, you are going to be tired but keep an eye on niggles etc. Slow right down at mile 15, you could stop at 15.5 miles and 'walk it out' the last half mile or so. This is something I find useful after a run of 12+ anyway.

Will do and cool thanks, that's what I was thinking as well that I could even walk for a bit more than normal at the start and walk a bit more at the end to finish. Gonna be my longest ever distance run, really looking forward to it!!
Going on previous lsrs it's going to be pushing on for nearly 3 hours but it's a really scenic route as well which is nice, a club mate ran a good bit of it recently and he said it's grand to run.

Pink11 · 22-07-2015 1:46pm

It's actually only ten euro extra to register by end of August. Don't know whether to wait or bite the bullet before July 31st! It's a lot of money to loose out on at the end of the day. As well as adding to the mental crush I'd feel if I had to drop out. As brilliantly put, I'm at stage where I'm so determined now I would crawl over that finish line too! hehe

Dubsgal - I know you advised against it, but I had already signed up to the race series back in Feb and just couldn't resist the novelty of the RNR half marathon on 2nd August even though I knew deep down even then it was probably overkill.

So keeping in mind I've ran the Clontarf half (*shudder*) and 10k Fingal on Sunday, what would you recommend I do in training for the rest of this week and next week (i.e lead up to the RNR HM race). I think some other people have the same race schedule as me? The 10mile Frank Duffy will be here before we know it too!

Dubgal72 · 22-07-2015 1:57pm

Some of you are struggling with naked running and that's fine, you're only in the second week of this and are not expected to 'get it right' straight away. Here's something that might help:

First of all, get nearly naked (no headphones but you need a gps for this):

- pick an easy run (or recovery)
- set the watch to 'average pace' setting(suggestions welcome for what setting would work best here...:o)
- start off with baby steps (as you should for every run

) for five-eight minutes, no need to check pace on this section
- now play 'guess the pace': guess what pace you're running at (no peeking), then look at your watch. How far out were you? How does what you felt like reconcile with pace?
- now run at the pace you should have been running at (probably slower). Focus on how this feels. Carry on without checking your watch.
- after five minutes or so, play 'guess the pace' again etc

Do this every five minutes or so as you run. As the run progresses, you should become 'better' at this. You don't have to 'go naked' every run, gps watches are a very useful tool, but being able to accurately assess your own pace and how you feel at this pace will make you a better runner, trust me

PJD · 22-07-2015 2:03pm

I'm out of action with a nasty head cold but will be back in action by the weekend! Its killing me

but in the absence of running it occurred to me that we should have a boards LSR meet up in phoenix park some weekend. Depending on interest we could have a couple of groups and meet after for post run tea.

Dubgal72 · 22-07-2015 2:06pm

Pink11 wrote: »

It's actually only ten euro extra to register by end of August. Don't know whether to wait or bite the bullet before July 31st! It's a lot of money to loose out on at the end of the day. As well as adding to the mental crush I'd feel if I had to drop out. As brilliantly put, I'm at stage where I'm so determined now I would crawl over that finish line too! hehe

Dubsgal - I know you advised against it, but I had already signed up to the race series back in Feb and just couldn't resist the novelty of the RNR half marathon on 2nd August even though I knew deep down even then it was probably overkill.

So keeping in mind I've ran the Clontarf half (*shudder*) and 10k Fingal on Sunday, what would you recommend I do in training for the rest of this week and next week (i.e lead up to the RNR HM race). I think some other people have the same race schedule as me? The 10mile Frank Duffy will be here before we know it too!

Hi pink, really, in my heart of hearts, I would advise you to lose the RnR and philosophically accept the financial loss. But I suspect that's not going to happen, is it

So really, I wouldn't advise you to change anything in training. Carry on as normal, don't taper but use every ounce of self restraint and run it as a lsr. Race the 10 mile, that's ok but if you want to make it to the start line on the 26th in optimal shape, lose a race; either the RnR or the 10 mile, preferably the RnR as you will have another HM in September.

Dubgal72 · 22-07-2015 2:09pm

PJD wrote: »

I'm out of action with a nasty head cold but will be back in action by the weekend! Its killing me but in the absence of running it occurred to me that we should have a boards LSR meet up in phoenix park some weekend. Depending on interest we could have a couple of groups and meet after for post run tea.

Great idea, I remember we discussed something like this *way back* for August and guess what.... :eek:

Joleigh · 22-07-2015 2:18pm

Just seeing this thread for the first time. Good luck with the mentoring Dubgal! Last year was my 2nd marathon. I was going grand in training this year until the Fingal 10k at the weekend which I got a pb in but felt unusually stiff afterwards. I now have a niggle in my foot. Feels like plantar fasciitis so I'm in heels today because that's the only way it doesn't hurt to walk on it. Plenty of foam rolling, stretching and probably no running for me this week SOB!!!

Kennyg71 · 22-07-2015 2:28pm

FBOT01 wrote: »

How does Mrs KennyG feel about that? Did she fall for the "it's part of the training, Honey." line or did she see through you straight away?

Calfs, hammys,Achilles,quads & gluts, getting
More attention than Mrs G or Kids at moment.

Have to do as much as I can when she is out
Training. Jealousy not a pretty thing😃

JacEim · 22-07-2015 3:43pm

jmcc99_98 wrote: »

Hi JacEim,

My 10k race time is around 46 minutes, This should be quicker but I haven't done many 10k races, so my timing tends to be off on them. My PB's (all within the last year) are 5k - 21:14, 10k - 46:05, 10mile - 78:20, HM - 1:46 and Marathon 4:01:36.

I'm not sure what "racing pace" is, - 7:20 per mile is about a 46 min 10k, which is quick, Im not sure what the purpose of that training run is (Im not following the plans on here - So im not sure of what they entail) but the run you are talking about is a little like my speedwork, and if that is the purpose of it then your pace is fine.

I'm a member of a running club so tend to fall in with their schedule. I run my LSR's at around 9:30 (But more often then not I end up running them faster then that, which is stupid and something I need to work on)

I do speedwork once a week which involves intervals at 5k pace - so these all tend to be around the 4min per/km. These are usually 400 meter intervals with usually around 12 reps.

I try to do a tempo run once a week which is usually around 45-60 secs quicker than Marathon pace so I will usually run these at about 8 to 8:30 min miles (Sorry about the use of both KM and Mile pace)

I have trained for my past marathons by running 5 nights a week - this time I'm cutting that down to 4 nights a week and trying to bring in a bit more core work on the other day. I am also going to try to train a bit smarter by using a HRM (I haven't tried this before, but have been told it is a very accurate way of getting your effort levels correct for different types of run)

All going well I will try for sub 4 again this year which is a 9min mile (Technically 9:05 but you will run further than 26.2 miles on the day so I will try to have a 5 sec buffer per mile) I will have an eye on 3:50 but this will depend on how the summer of training goes.

As I said above I think you are making the right decision by going for 4hour as opposed to 3:30 - The Marathon is a different beast altogether - and despite it sounding like a cliche, your race really does only start at 20 miles. It is a thoroughly enjoyable experience, I loved the training for it, especially in a group and the day itself is amazing. The crowds at the DCM are brilliant, crossing the finish line on your first marathon is an unbelievable feeling even, if like me, you miss your target by a couple of minutes.

This is SUPER helpful!!
My program is pretty similar to yours - 4 runs during the week and LSR on Sunday (which I am to do before I coach my daughters Gaelic football team, and involves some light jogging around to help loosen out the muscles

)

My midweek runs are a nice combination of the following:
- Tues: Pace run (apologies but I dont know all the right lingo), I call it fartlek, with segments run at 10k pacing..
- Wed: Easy run (6-7M - every week for duration of the program)
- Thurs: Very varied runs - progression, fartlek, MP, HMP (5-7M)
- Fri: Rest
- Sat: Very easy 3-5M

Unfortunately though, the Tues-Thurs runs will be mostly on treadmill as I am out of the country most weeks. Is this a big issue or should I adjust my training plan as a result ?

Toulouse · 22-07-2015 4:05pm

PJD wrote: »

I'm out of action with a nasty head cold but will be back in action by the weekend! Its killing me but in the absence of running it occurred to me that we should have a boards LSR meet up in phoenix park some weekend. Depending on interest we could have a couple of groups and meet after for post run tea.

Feel better!

I'd definitely be up for any Phoenix Park meets.

jmcc99_98 · 22-07-2015 4:41pm

JacEim wrote: »

This is SUPER helpful!!
My program is pretty similar to yours - 4 runs during the week and LSR on Sunday (which I am to do before I coach my daughters Gaelic football team, and involves some light jogging around to help loosen out the muscles )

My midweek runs are a nice combination of the following:
- Tues: Pace run (apologies but I dont know all the right lingo), I call it fartlek, with segments run at 10k pacing..
- Wed: Easy run (6-7M - every week for duration of the program)
- Thurs: Very varied runs - progression, fartlek, MP, HMP (5-7M)
- Fri: Rest
- Sat: Very easy 3-5M

Unfortunately though, the Tues-Thurs runs will be mostly on treadmill as I am out of the country most weeks. Is this a big issue or should I adjust my training plan as a result ?

Yeah, I have to occasionally do a treadmill run also, but I keep to to a minimum - They are definitely not as beneficial as outdoor running. I have been told before that because the ground moves below you as opposed to you propelling yourself forward takes away some of the benefit, but on the flip side they are easier on the joints than pounding the pavements. If I have no other choice I will use the treadmill and it is still better than not doing anything. If you increase the gradient to 1 or 1.5% it allegedly gives you a better "outdoor running" benefit.

Yes my schedule is very similar to yours.

Mon - 3 or 4 mile (very very easy recovery run)
Tue- Rest or Core Work
Wed- Speedwork - Essentially fartlek or interval training - usually amounting to 5 miles including the Warm up and Warm Down
Thursday - Rest or Core
Friday - 6-8 mile run, usually with a large part of it as a tempo run - so usually 4 - 5 miles at 8 - 8:30 min mile pace
Saturday - Rest
Sunday - LSR - These I definitely need to slow down a bit - I run with a group and tend to get dragged along with the faster runners. When I should be with the group behind me. (I do sometimes mix the LSR's up a little bit to do a few miles at MP)

denis b · 22-07-2015 5:23pm

PJD wrote: »

I'm out of action with a nasty head cold but will be back in action by the weekend! Its killing me but in the absence of running it occurred to me that we should have a boards LSR meet up in phoenix park some weekend. Depending on interest we could have a couple of groups and meet after for post run tea.

Get better PJD and I am +1 for the LSR and TEA

Toulouse · 22-07-2015 5:24pm

Possibly the only person in the world ever to need dry needling after a gig but as I was there anyway the Physio sorted out my calves.

Got the all clear too so don't need to go back, woohoo!

Now out for three very slow miles.

Mrs Mc · 22-07-2015 6:08pm

FBOT01 wrote: »

How does Mrs KennyG feel about that? Did she fall for the "it's part of the training, Honey." line or did she see through you straight away?

No need to lower the tone FBOT I'll be telling Mrs K on YA

Mrs Mc · 22-07-2015 6:11pm

PJD wrote: »

I'm out of action with a nasty head cold but will be back in action by the weekend! Its killing me but in the absence of running it occurred to me that we should have a boards LSR meet up in phoenix park some weekend. Depending on interest we could have a couple of groups and meet after for post run tea.

Hope you're feeling better P

Dubgal72 · 22-07-2015 6:22pm

eyeball kid wrote: »

Had an easy run yesterday evening but just at the end felt a real tightness in my calf muscle, a bit like I had a month ago ago after a 10 km race but worse. It actually stopped me running and had to walk the last km home. Very disappointed but going to take it easy this week and see how it goes. Lots of stretching and foam rolling I guess.

Bad buzz EK

I'm not giving medical advice

but sounds like a physio visit in a few days if it doesn't go away, just to be on the safe side....Careful with stretching on 'cold' legs. What stretches do you use?

Dubgal72 · 22-07-2015 6:24pm

Joleigh wrote: »

Just seeing this thread for the first time. Good luck with the mentoring Dubgal! Last year was my 2nd marathon. I was going grand in training this year until the Fingal 10k at the weekend which I got a pb in but felt unusually stiff afterwards. I now have a niggle in my foot. Feels like plantar fasciitis so I'm in heels today because that's the only way it doesn't hurt to walk on it. Plenty of foam rolling, stretching and probably no running for me this week SOB!!!

Hi Joleigh, congrats on the PB! Aw not nice

Let us know how you get on this week, won't you?

Dubgal72 · 22-07-2015 6:27pm

Hi JacEim, sorry I haven't been around but I echo Clearlier's welcome to the thread! You've been getting lots of sound advice anyway...Talk more tomorrow, I want to read all your posts in more detail

eyeball kid · 22-07-2015 7:39pm

Dubgal72 wrote: »

Bad buzz EK I'm not giving medical advice but sounds like a physio visit in a few days if it doesn't go away, just to be on the safe side....Careful with stretching on 'cold' legs. What stretches do you use?

Don't know the names of the stretches but you put your 2 hands on the wall and put one leg back at a time. I'll see how it's going by Friday and if no better go to a physio.

PJD · 22-07-2015 8:26pm

Dubgal72 wrote: »

Great idea, I remember we discussed something like this *way back* for August and guess what.... :eek:

Then lets make it happen! Most people do LSR's on Saturday I think... Options-
This Saturday - 25/7. Saturday - 1/8 (some people doing RnR half on the Sunday tho). Saturday 8/8...... If it works some other runs could take place before the big day. DG; we may need some flapjacks if we are having a post run tea stop!!

Toulouse · 22-07-2015 8:41pm

Totally down for the 1/8 and the 8/8.

Hal says I have 7 miles on the 1/8 and 12 miles on the 8/8 if that fits in with anyone else. About 11min/mi pace

Pink11 · 22-07-2015 8:45pm

Dubgal72 wrote: »

Hi pink, really, in my heart of hearts, I would advise you to lose the RnR and philosophically accept the financial loss. But I suspect that's not going to happen, is it So really, I wouldn't advise you to change anything in training. Carry on as normal, don't taper but use every ounce of self restraint and run it as a lsr. Race the 10 mile, that's ok but if you want to make it to the start line on the 26th in optimal shape, lose a race; either the RnR or the 10 mile, preferably the RnR as you will have another HM in September.

I know you're 100% right.

Thanks for telling me. I need to remember this next week so I'm not tearing and watching the clock!

Thanks DG

22-07-2015 8:57pm

Oh I'd love to do a long run and tea with ye!

8/8 would be brilliant!

DCM 2015: Mentored Novices Thread

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