Y.A.C.I.T

Nforce · 21-04-2015 4:12pm #1

...or Yet Another Copyright Infringement Thread.

I'm currently involved in one at the moment and would be grateful for any advice offered. The background to the issue is as follows:

In September 2013 I went to a local outdoor event. I paid my entrance fee and I along with hundreds of others, took photographs of the exhibits. I posted a few pics on Facebook and put up a link to my Pix.ie page where many other images were hosted.
The organisers of the event contacted me on FB and asked if they could put some of my pics on their website, and that these images would be properly credited to me. I obliged and that was the last I head of that. A few weeks ago I happened upon their website and was surprised to find that basically their entire website was made up of my images...and no credit/link/mention of who supplied the images (of which there are 16 photos).
I sent them an email and asked if they could amend the website by crediting me with supplying all of the photographs. They ignored this email so I then requested on a number of occasions since this that they remove the images from their site. These emails were ignored too.I also contacted their website hosts and explained the situation but was told that a court order would be required in order for them to pull the website.
I've since contacted the company through their FB page and was told that my images will be removed from their website by yesterday Monday 20th April, and that I was never to photograph anything at one of their events again and am barred!
My photos are still up on their website as of today.

Apologies for the long winded post.Advice on where to go from here would be appreciated.

Nforce · 21-04-2015 4:14pm

By the way, I'm a hobbyist photographer so I do not and have not ever earned from this. I suppose that I could send them an invoice but I'd imagine that this too will be ignored.

Uno my Uno. · 21-04-2015 4:17pm

Go see your solicitor and get them to write to the company.

Nforce · 21-04-2015 4:27pm

Taking the legal route via a solicitor would leave me out of pocket,though. I suppose that I could take them through the small claims court, but if they remove the images will screenshots suffice as proof that they were hosting my photos?

Uno my Uno. · 21-04-2015 4:32pm

Nforce wrote: »

Taking the legal route via a solicitor would leave me out of pocket,though. I suppose that I could take them through the small claims court, but if they remove the images will screenshots suffice as proof that they were hosting my photos?

No you can't, the Small Claims court won't deal with matters such as this one.

If you want the photos taken down then you need to threaten them with legal action, the only way to do that effectively is to have a Solicitor write to them. Usual Cost for a letter would be about €100 inc VAT. If that doesn't do the trick then you are probably out of options as proceedings will be too expensive to justify.

Nforce · 21-04-2015 5:05pm

If that's the case then there's no point in pursuing the issue any further.

Silva360 · 21-04-2015 7:41pm

Nforce wrote: »

The organisers of the event contacted me on FB and asked if they could put some of my pics on their website, and that these images would be properly credited to me. I obliged and that was the last I head of that.

It might be a stupid question, but did you specify in your response at the time that being credited is a precondition to use? If not, they my have assumed you weren't bothered. Given the time that has elapsed, it might even be deemed that you effectively gave consent for the current use and that there is nothing to pursue now (in terms of compensation, I'm sure you can still request the removal of the photos but will that make you happy?).

I personally cannot see any benefit to giving work away for free. A credit is con. It means nothing unless you want it for some type of photographic CV.

Nforce · 21-04-2015 8:00pm

Yes, the photo credit was a strict requirement as my photos were not watermarked. It also wasn't made known to me that these images would be used to promote their company in a commercial manner. As the company never contacted me again I had forgotten completely about this until I happened across their website recently.

CabanSail · 22-04-2015 5:39am

They do sound quite arrogant in their manner, though you have to give some credit that they did actually ask you for permission rather than just lifting them. They have failed in not sticking to the terms specified, and that is annoying. They should have simply edited their page but to make threats and exclude you from any future events because of their oversight is quite bizarre. If they generally allow photography at events and you have not done anything wrong there could also be a case of discrimination.

Nforce · 22-04-2015 10:12am

I am completely blameless. If I had not complained about their site then the issue of being barred would not have arisen. It was spiteful of them to tell me that I could not photograph at any future events, whilst encouraging others to do so.
If they had amended their website when I initially contacted them I would have been willing to forgive and forget. Their subsequent treatment of me has been nothing short of ignorant.

Uno my Uno. · 22-04-2015 10:55am

Nforce wrote: »

I am completely blameless. If I had not complained about their site then the issue of being barred would not have arisen. It was spiteful of them to tell me that I could not photograph at any future events, whilst encouraging others to do so.
If they had amended their website when I initially contacted them I would have been willing to forgive and forget. Their subsequent treatment of me has been nothing short of ignorant.

I get the feeling that what you are essentially looking for here is your photos to be taken down and an apology. I believe you have two options, Use Social Media to try and embarrass or shame them into it or Lawyer up.

Social Media Might work but it might not, they might not care and its possible that you could end up the subject of legal proceedings yourself. If you Lawyer up it is going to cost money and I doubt any competent lawyer would advise proceedings over a matter such as this. However a letter threatening proceedings would be a different matter.

Nforce · 22-04-2015 12:22pm

An apology would be nice, after all I have done nothing wrong yet now I am barred from attending any future events. To be honest I don't think a solicitor's letter would make any difference as the company know that it would not be worth pursuing in court.
I have tried embarrassing them on social media and requesting my photos be removed from their site, but it has gone unheeded.

Uno my Uno. · 22-04-2015 12:42pm

Nforce wrote: »

An apology would be nice, after all I have done nothing wrong yet now I am barred from attending any future events. To be honest I don't think a solicitor's letter would make any difference as the company know that it would not be worth pursuing in court.
I have tried embarrassing them on social media and requesting my photos be removed from their site, but it has gone unheeded.

You would be surprised how effective headed paper can be.

Effects · 22-04-2015 1:19pm

Nforce wrote: »

I am completely blameless. If I had not complained about their site then the issue of being barred would not have arisen..

In their ignorance they probably think they can use your photos any way they want. You are still entitled to compensation for their use. Any chance of showing us a link to the usage?

Nforce · 22-04-2015 1:37pm

Effects wrote: »

In their ignorance they probably think they can use your photos any way they want. You are still entitled to compensation for their use. Any chance of showing us a link to the usage?

I think it'd be best not not have Boards.ie embroiled in the dispute, so probably for the best if I don't post up the link to their site.
As I stated earlier in the thread, if they had complied with my request to be credited as having supplied the photos,things could have been different.Funnily enough they have copyrighted their website (along with my photos).

Tiriel · 22-04-2015 3:25pm

I hate seeing this kind of intentional copyright theft and think you should definitely consider the solicitor's letter route.

What they are doing is blatantly wrong and they know it. I know it will cost you to follow it up, but if it was me I'd seriously think about it.

Silva360 · 22-04-2015 4:15pm

If you don't want to, or can't afford to, fork out for a solicitor then you could always write a polite letter to the CEO/Manager/Administrator setting out the background and what you want. You could attach the emails where the initial agreement took place. I think it might be best to cut your losses and simply ask that you are credited and that will be the end of the matter (and of course an apology for the threat of being banned and the continuous use without crediting). You could always ask that you be permitted to entry to a future event for free as compensation.

You could politely say that if there is non-compliance you will need to seek formal legal advice.

Essentially, a pre- 'letter before claim'. It might just get them concerned and as a minimum it will do no harm should you wish to progress the matter later. You could always write 'strictly without prejudice' on it so that it would not prejudice any future claim you might wish to make?

If you really want your photos off, then you could do the same letter with that request instead.

Myksyk · 22-04-2015 5:12pm

Definition ...
'Being a complete unadulterated pr**k'

Blatantly doing something wrong and then being indignant with and punishing your victim.

Nforce · 22-04-2015 6:18pm

Silva360 wrote: »

If you don't want to, or can't afford to, fork out for a solicitor then you could always write a polite letter to the CEO/Manager/Administrator setting out the background and what you want. You could attach the emails where the initial agreement took place. I think it might be best to cut your losses and simply ask that you are credited and that will be the end of the matter (and of course an apology for the threat of being banned and the continuous use without crediting). You could always ask that you be permitted to entry to a future event for free as compensation.

You could politely say that if there is non-compliance you will need to seek formal legal advice.

Essentially, a pre- 'letter before claim'. It might just get them concerned and as a minimum it will do no harm should you wish to progress the matter later. You could always write 'strictly without prejudice' on it so that it would not prejudice any future claim you might wish to make?

If you really want your photos off, then you could do the same letter with that request instead.

Just logged back in to respond and was surprised to see the above as that is more or less just what I have done.
I found out the directors of the company and with a little investigation got a phone number for one of them. On speaking to him he seemed genuinely surprised about the situation and said it was the first he had heard about it and promised to make some calls and to call me back.
True enough to his word, he rang back and said that the initial emails requesting the photos be credited or taken down were not received He apologised and stated that the photos will be removed. He has also told me that I am welcome to return to future events.
I've forwarded copies of the emails, screenshots of the Facebook messages and proof that his web-master has indeed received all emails sent to him,both from me and from his website hosts.
I'll await his response.

I really appreciate all the responses to this thread.

PS. whilst I can,fortunately, afford the monetary expense of a court case, the long time frame and exhaustive process would put me off going this route.

CabanSail · 23-04-2015 1:27am

That sounds like the best outcome.

Maybe you have been dealing with just one person who is bringing the whole company into disrepute.

Now that you have this contact you may consider leaving the images up BUT with full attribution. Maybe a written apology would also be in order.

The director should know that the person who treated you this way risked a lot of poor publicity and expense. That was only averted as you have been quite restrained.

Maybe some good will come out of this. Well done in finding the best path.

Nforce · 23-04-2015 12:13pm

A further update, the website has been taken down and I am assured that my images are removed.:)

A verbal apology was given, but this was tempered somewhat by the allegation that the reason that I was originally barred from future events was due to me complaining about them on social media sites. The social media events only happened after I was barred. I've forwarded screenshots of these conversations along with copies of emails and proof that these emails were, in fact, received by and responded to by their company. I've asked the director to admit that I have done nothing wrong and should he do so I'll let the matter rest.

Y.A.C.I.T

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