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Israel - Palestine Conflict. **Mod note in OP - updated 1st August**

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  • Options
    #1142
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    beegeedee wrote: »
    So, like what The Irish justice system does then? I can definitely think of at least a dozen cases that shocked and disgusted me.

    I'm not saying it's right. It's horrible.

    No charges

    A British UN project manager shot by an Israeli sniper was unlawfully killed, a UK inquest has concluded.

    Iain Hook, 54, of Felixstowe, Suffolk, was in a UN compound in Jenin when he was shot in November 2002.
    On Friday, jurors unanimously agreed Mr Hook, who was born in Essex, had been the victim of a "deliberate" killing. Coroner Dr Peter Dean said he was so concerned by the case and the fact 13 UN workers have died in Jenin, he will write to Prime Minister Tony Blair.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/suffolk/4534620.stm

    No charges

    Two Palestinian boys have been shot dead by Israeli troops in the northern Gaza Strip, Palestinian sources say.
    The children were estimated to be between eight and 13 years old. They have not yet been identified.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6712485.stm

    No charges

    Israel's attorney general says no policemen will be prosecuted over the killing of 13 Arab Israeli protesters in 2000.
    Menachem Mazuz said there was insufficient evidence to pursue a prosecution against officers who opened fire during anti-government riots.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7212394.stm

    No charges

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2002/11/23/i-was-shot-while-trying-to-protect-jenin-s-children/

    No charges

    Palestinian Girl Shot While At Un School Dies Of Injuries From Gunfire
    Just two months shy of her tenth birthday, Ghadeer Jaber Mokheimer died today of injuries sustained when, sitting in a United Nations school, she was hit by gunfire from an Israeli military position on the outskirts of Khan Younis camp, the UN relief agency helping Palestinians (UNRWA) reported.
    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO0410/S00162.htm

    No charges

    In March 2003, 12-year old Hoda Darwish was sitting at her desk when she was hit in the head by a bullet fired from an Israeli observation post on the outskirts of Khan Younis. The bullet struck her head and left her blind.
    http://reliefweb.int/report/israel/opt-israeli-gunfire-hits-11-year-old-girl-sitting-her-desk-unrwa-school

    No charges

    "Islam Dwidar's classmates were still taking in her shocking death - the teacher weeping outside before facing the girls, her closest friend recounting how they walked to school together each day - when the news arrived about Tahreer Abu El Jidyan.
    The two 15-year-old pupils at Jabaliya's school were both shot in the head by Israeli soldiers inside their homes just a few blocks and several hours apart. Islam died almost immediately after the bullet smashed through her forehead as she baked bread with her mother in their yard on Sunday. Tahreer is still on life support at a Gaza hospital after an operation to remove shards of shattered skull from her brain."
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/oct/06/Israel

    No charges

    About 11.30am last Tuesday, within moments of each other, Asma al-Mughair, 16, and her brother Ahmed, 13, died on the roof of their home in the Tel Sultan district of Rafah.
    http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/05/23/1085250870992.html?oneclick=true

    Do you get the idea now or do you want me to go on?


  • Options
    #1143
    beegeedee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22 ✭beegeedee


    Tuisceanch wrote: »
    It's an understandable dilemma you pose but there is a problem with it. Israel could avoid the situation by dismantling the settlements in the west bank and removing their army of occupation and they could remove the naval and border freeze of Gaza. They could release all the illegally held prisoners they have kidnapped over the years and they pay for the cost of reconstructing the Palestinian infrastructure.

    It was a bit like that in early 2000's. I remember 200 Israelis being killed by suicide bombers in one week. Why do you think they put up the walls?


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    #1144
    SeaBreezes
    Registered Users Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭SeaBreezes


    beegeedee wrote: »
    In the end, both sides are wrong. Hamas is wrong for completely disregarding any opportunity for peace and also for disregarding the lives of the Palestinians as a consequence (note the differentiation here - they are not the same)

    Israel on the other hand are wrong because of the heavy handed tactics they are using which puts it mildly. They are targeting rocket sights and perhaps could use a lot more care.

    The problem is this: Were they really supposed to do nothing? If they did, does that indicate to Hamas that it was okay fire rockets at Israel?

    Nothing is right about this. Both sides are wrong.

    Just because Israel has iron dome doesn't mean it's okay for rockets to be fired at them. Just because rockets are stored by Hamas in schools, mosques and housing districts means it's okay for them to be targeted. It's certainly wrong for this to be done in the first place.

    Doesn't matter what the Israeli government does, they cannot ever win. Doing nothing would destroy the government. Doing something means harming innocents.

    The whole situation is totally screwed up.

    I disagree. The Israeli government can stop the genocide, lift the starvation blockade. Make it criminal to murder a little girl regardless of her race/origin, and give palestinians equal rights. The more I read on this thread the more it disgusts and repulses me. How anybody can condone this nazi behaviour is beyond me.


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    #1145
    eeepaulo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,300 ✭✭✭eeepaulo


    beegeedee wrote: »
    It was a bit like that in early 2000's. I remember 200 Israelis being killed by suicide bombers in one week. Why do you think they put up the walls?


    So that they can now herd them* out of there homes and systematically slaughter them in UN shelters with no chance of escape

    * palestinians


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    #1146
    Donkey Oaty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    Kev2Dee wrote: »
    New ceasefire agreed....? 72hours as of 7am Israeli time....spearheaded by ban ki moon, and john Kerry jus reported on CNN

    Agreed by Israel and Hamas, apparently.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/28596609


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    #1147
    wretcheddomain
    Registered Users Posts: 3,094 ✭✭✭wretcheddomain


    Hamas and Israel agree a 72 Hour Truce
    The UN and US say all sides have agreed to an unconditional 72-hour humanitarian ceasefire in the Gaza Strip.

    In a joint statement US Secretary of State John Kerry and UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon said Hamas and Israel will observe the truce from 8am local time.

    Israeli ground forces will, however, remain in place.

    "This ceasefire is critical to giving innocent civilians a much-needed reprieve from violence," the statement said.

    "During this period, civilians in Gaza will receive urgently needed humanitarian relief, and the opportunity to carry out vital functions, including burying the dead, taking care of the injured, and restocking food supplies.

    "We urge all parties to act with restraint until this humanitarian ceasefire begins, and to fully abide by their commitments during the ceasefire."

    Israeli and Palestinian delegations are to travel to Cairo immediately to negotiate a more durable ceasefire during the halt in fighting.

    http://news.sky.com/story/1311150/israel-and-hamas-agree-72-hour-gaza-truce


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    #1148
    beegeedee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22 ✭beegeedee


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Are you really attempting to justify the murder of this 10 year old child?

    Really?? Can you not read?

    No, I am not. There is no justification. My point was while it is totally tragic, the Israeli justice system should be left o deal with it, however screwed up it may or may not be.


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    #1149
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    beegeedee wrote: »
    It was a bit like that in early 2000's. I remember 200 Israelis being killed by suicide bombers in one week. Why do you think they put up the walls?

    Source?


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    #1150
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    beegeedee wrote: »
    Really?? Can you not read?

    No, I am not. There is no justification. My point was while it is totally tragic, the Israeli justice system should be left o deal with it, however screwed up it may or may not be.


    And if its a sectarian/racist two tier system that persecutes on population while allowing another free reign?


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    #1151
    WakeUp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭WakeUp


    Fresh Israeli shelling hits UN school injuring scores of Children:

    "At least 30 people, most of them children, have been wounded after Israeli tanks shelled an area close to an UN-run school in Beit Lahiya in northern Gaza on Thursday."

    "It comes just a day after at least 15 Palestinians were killed in a different UN school, in an Israeli attack condemned by world leaders."

    "Issam Al Attar, who was sheltering in the school, said he despaired of anyone coming to the help of Gaza: “All of them were children sleeping. What are they guilty of? No one cares about them – no feeling. Where is Egypt? Where are the Arab countries?”

    Now many who were told by the Israeli army they would be safer to leave their homes are considering returning.

    Samir Al Tumi said there was nowhere safe to go: “We are dying of fear, I want to go and die in my own home rather than die in a UN school because there is no safety here, none whatsoever.”

    http://www.euronews.com/2014/07/31/fresh-israeli-shelling-hits-un-school-injuring-scores-of-children/

    another day another school. more kids blown up and injured . stay classy IDF.


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    #1152
    sid waddell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,664 ✭✭✭sid waddell


    beegeedee wrote: »
    It was a bit like that in early 2000's. I remember 200 Israelis being killed by suicide bombers in one week.
    That never happened.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_suicide_attacks#2001_.2840_bombings.29


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    #1153
    Tail Docker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,954 ✭✭✭Tail Docker


    mrsweebri wrote: »
    You are asking me to answer my own question, and you are being aggressive. I asked who Was meant by 'they' , as I do not see the logic behind suggestion Israel won't stop with Palestinian land. The user answered, I accepted his answer and explained my reasons behind my thoughts. You are insisting that I am accusing you of something, I have stated I did not. I have nothing more to say on that matter.

    Ah, hardly, he's not dropping a hardened structure ordnance onto your apartment block, one that penetrates till it can't any more, then it stops, usually deep underground, there's a pause, a deathly silence..then a blast that lifts and folds the entire building, killing everyone and everything for a 100m radius. Now, that's being aggressive.


  • Options
    #1154
    beegeedee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22 ✭beegeedee


    eeepaulo wrote: »
    So that they can now herd them* out of there homes and systematically slaughter them in UN shelters with no chance of escape

    * palestinians

    Nope. To stop adults and children being blown up in buses, cafés on the way to school/work with nail bombs and crushed by rogue bulldozers. Back then Palestinians worked in Israel in relative peace and dozens of attempted bombings happened every day...as well as the ones that happened daily.

    What were they supposed to do??? Keep letting it happen?

    Like I said they cannot win regardless of what they do. There is no right way.


  • Options
    #1155
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    beegeedee wrote: »
    Nope. To stop adults and children being blown up in buses, cafés on the way to school/work with nail bombs and crushed by rogue bulldozers. Back then Palestinians worked in Israel in relative peace and dozens of attempted bombings happened every day...as well as the ones that happened daily.

    What were they supposed to do??? Keep letting it happen?

    Like I said they cannot win regardless of what they do. There is no right way.


    If you'd care to respond to my previous posts please....


  • Options
    #1156
    Tail Docker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,954 ✭✭✭Tail Docker


    Nodin wrote: »
    Source?

    refer to "anglo bail-out figures". Same source used.


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    #1157
    hju6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭hju6


    beegeedee wrote: »
    It was a bit like that in early 2000's. I remember 200 Israelis being killed by suicide bombers in one week. Why do you think they put up the walls?

    Watch this documentary, if you are poor and on foot you queue at checkpoints between Gaza and Israel for hours

    Get a new car you can drive straight through, so where are all these suicide bombers the Israelis fear,?

    http://rt.com/shows/documentary/176624-news-team-episode-17/


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    #1158
    JamboMac
    Registered Users Posts: 3,952 ✭✭✭JamboMac


    Tail Docker wrote: »
    Ah, hardly, he's not dropping a hardened structure ordnance onto your apartment block, one that penetrates till it can't any more, then it stops, usually deep underground, there's a pause, a deathly silence..then a blast that lifts and folds the entire building, killing everyone and everything for a 100m radius. Now, that's being aggressive.

    I wouldn't bother with mrsweebri he accuses people of things but not directly.
    Denies he did so and then refuses to answer any questions he is asked.

    Smells fishy.


  • Options
    #1159
    Tail Docker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,954 ✭✭✭Tail Docker


    beegeedee wrote: »
    Nope. To stop adults and children being blown up in buses, cafés on the way to school/work with nail bombs and crushed by rogue bulldozers. Back then Palestinians worked in Israel in relative peace and dozens of attempted bombings happened every day...as well as the ones that happened daily.

    What were they supposed to do??? Keep letting it happen?

    Like I said they cannot win regardless of what they do. There is no right way.

    You on the 9 to 11 shift? Doing a bit of overtime?


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    #1160
    pedro1234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 190 ✭✭pedro1234


    wretcheddomain wrote: »
    Hamas and Israel agree a 72 Hour Truce

    Can't see this lasting AT ALL.


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    #1161
    Chance The Rapper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 494 ✭✭Chance The Rapper


    What happens during the three days of the ceasefire then?

    It has to be handed to Ban Ki Moon in fairness.


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    #1162
    wretcheddomain
    Registered Users Posts: 3,094 ✭✭✭wretcheddomain


    Chance The Rapper wrote: »
    What happens during the three days of the ceasefire then?

    No firing preferably.


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    #1163
    beegeedee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22 ✭beegeedee


    Nodin wrote: »
    Source?

    I remember it clearly. A Scottish kid was killed in Jerusalem while on holiday by a Palestinian suicide bomber along with 17 others on a bus. He was 18. He was kept alive on life support while his parents flew there. Donated a kidney to a dying Palestinian. Someone I know knew him.

    Good enough?


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    #1164
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    beegeedee wrote: »
    Really?? Can you not read?

    No, I am not. There is no justification. My point was while it is totally tragic, the Israeli justice system should be left o deal with it, however screwed up it may or may not be.

    but they didn't!!!!!!

    A ****ing ten year old child was brutally murdered in cold blood and the **** that didmit was charged with conduct unbecoming of an officer! I know soldiers who got charged with that for being ****ing drunk!


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    #1165
    eeepaulo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,300 ✭✭✭eeepaulo


    pedro1234 wrote: »
    Can't see this lasting AT ALL.

    When they set a time for the truce, i am holding my breath just before.

    There will be an increase in the slaughter just before


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    #1166
    hju6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭hju6


    wretcheddomain wrote: »
    Hamas and Israel agree a 72 Hour Truce

    3 days for the Israelis to help us forget with propaganda what bastards they are


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    #1167
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    beegeedee wrote: »
    I remember it clearly. A Scottish kid was killed in Jerusalem while on holiday by a Palestinian suicide bomber along with 17 others on a bus. He was 18. He was kept alive on life support while his parents flew there. Donated a kidney to a dying Palestinian. Someone I know knew him.

    Good enough?


    You said 200 dead in a week, so no, that's not good enough.

    Would you care to comment on this?
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=91525813&postcount=1142

    And could you get back to me on this also please
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=91525941&postcount=1150


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    #1168
    The Th!ng
    Registered Users Posts: 464 ✭✭The Th!ng


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Here you go

    http://electronicintifada.net/content/israels-starvation-diet-gaza/11810

    Thanks for that, bumper234. The more I see and read, the more I am convinced that this is Israeli genocidal policy in action.

    Health experts advised them that 170 truck loads of food a day was needed, but only 67 were allowed through.
    And on top of this, Israel further adjusted the formula so that the number of trucks carrying nutrient-poor sugar were doubled while the trucks carrying milk, fruit and vegetables were greatly reduced, sometimes by as much as a half.


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    #1169
    JJayoo
    Registered Users Posts: 6,561 ✭✭✭JJayoo


    Israel's plan seems pretty simple at this stage, turn Gaza into a wasteland by blowing the sh1te out of everything. The people who live there can't possibly rebuild when you consider all the restrictions on what they are allowed to import and then Israel will swallow it up while being patted on the head by America.

    "A bar code starting with “729” indicates that this product is produced in Israel 729 Israeli Bar Code Association – EAN Israel.This is a modest, simple and effective way to support Palestinianstruggleagainst Israeli occupation and ethnic crimes against humanbeings.Sometimes brands are misleading, a bar code never lies if it carriesthat729"


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    #1170
    Tuisceanch
    Registered Users Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Tuisceanch


    beegeedee wrote: »
    It was a bit like that in early 2000's. I remember 200 Israelis being killed by suicide bombers in one week. Why do you think they put up the walls?

    I don't belittle the suffering of anybody and my sympathy is with all families who have suffered bereavement.However,what you remember and what is the recorded facts do not tally and you should check your assertions before posting them as it belittles your argument.

    In terms of peace agreements there was not anything of the nature I described on the table and nothing even remotely close.

    Also we are talking about the here and now and if you are interested in peace then Israel has to stop pretending to be an agent of peace and become a true agent of peace.

    The crux of the matter is that I don't believe the narrative you are presenting because I'm quite familiar with it and I have found nothing to support it.

    Either you want peace or you don't and If you do then stop providing excuses for why it can't happen.


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    #1171
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    hju6 wrote: »
    3 days for the Israelis to help us forget with propaganda what bastards they are

    More like three days for them to get the ammunitions they need from the yank compounds to get ready for the next round of murder.


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