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British Poll On Charity-Giving Shows Atheists least generous and Muslims Most

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    #62
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    I figure its hard enough being homeless without a well meaning women who's never been in their shoes doling out advice. If I was homeless and a can of cider or 20 fags was keeping me going, that's my business. I consider it better spent than on new testaments or crosses for the heathens.


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    #63
    mewso
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 8,870 Mod ✭✭✭✭mewso


    Sarky wrote: »
    I've seen how Concern works. I've seen how the Irish Red Cross 'works'. No way in hell would give them a cent. I want to help people when I give to charity.

    Off topic but do we have a thread on the various charities and how they operate? I need to educate myself.


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    #64
    Dave!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,857 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    I notice the OP never actually addressed the question of donations to religious organisations likely being counted as charitable by surveys. This is a pretty important point really.

    Having said that it wouldn't entirely surprise me if people active in religious communities do donate more than atheists; it could easily be a byproduct of the community apparatus of some religions. Nobody has said that every aspect of religion is bad.


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    #65
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Penn wrote: »
    Have to admit, I once gave a homeless guy a tenner (which he was very grateful for, going so far as to kiss my hand) and I saw him half an hour later with some cigarettes, and it did kind of annoy me.

    I gave you that money for food!.

    Did it make you feel like a bishop? I suppose this is how they must feel when they see the faithful flock heading into the pub after mass.

    I read somewhere that Israel is one of the biggest recipients of foreign aid of all the countries in the world. They receive way more charity than Somalia or Chad. So thats where a lot of the Jewish charity money is directed I suppose. I dread to think where a lot of the hardline muslim charity money is going (although the Red Crescent do good work in disaster relief).


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    #66
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,121 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Is US military aid included in that though?

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #67
    lmaopml
    Registered Users Posts: 3,080 ✭✭✭lmaopml


    http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0412/homework.pdf

    I found this from the OECD - admittedly it's 2011 (not sure if there is another survey afterwards, and it's late ) still it's something as a nation that we seem to be getting somewhat right.


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    #68
    doctoremma
    Registered Users Posts: 1,870 ✭✭✭doctoremma


    http://business.time.com/2012/08/21/how-religious-affiliation-affects-charitable-giving/

    TLDR; correction of charitable-giving to remove church-based donations completely reverses the observation that religious people give more of their discretionary income to charity.

    http://secularhumanism.org/index.php?section=fi&page=generous_atheists (summary piece of several studies)

    TLDR; Religious altruism is a myth, unless one is SEEN to be generous. Religious people give more on a Sunday! 90 % of Mormon charity goes to Mormons, 50 % of Catholic charity goes to Catholics. Correlation between high levels of atheism and strong welfare structures - via tax, governments do charitable work on behalf of atheists.


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    #69
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    ninja900 wrote: »
    Is US military aid included in that though?
    Don't know tbh, but if political donations, military aid, and donations to promulgate your own church can be classed as "aid" or "charity" then beware of the statistics.


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    #70
    Brian Shanahan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,232 ✭✭✭Brian Shanahan


    recedite wrote: »
    I read somewhere that Israel is one of the biggest recipients of foreign aid of all the countries in the world. They receive way more charity than Somalia or Chad.

    All them <whatever version of the F-series jets the US are charitably donating> are expensive don't'cha know?

    In fact if you look closely at US "aid" the vast majority of it is arms to keep dictatorships from Egypt to Israel in power.


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    #71
    Sulla Felix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,442 ✭✭✭Sulla Felix


    Brian Shanahan wrote: »
    All them <whatever version of the F-series jets the US are charitably donating> are expensive don't'cha know?

    In fact if you look closely at US "aid" the vast majority of it is arms to keep dictatorships from Egypt to Israel in power.
    There's a dictator ruling in Israel?


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    #72
    Brian Shanahan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,232 ✭✭✭Brian Shanahan


    Sulla Felix wrote: »
    There's a dictator ruling in Israel?

    I consider theocracies to be dictatorships (in the modern sense of the word dictatorship). And while Israel has the outer trappings of democracy it is essentially a theocracy, with the government kow-towing to the wishes of an extremist minority sect within Judaism. In that it is exactly the same as Iran (well, apart from the obvious Islam thing).

    Frankly there are very few true democracies in the world today, in either the classical or modern sense. Most of the major governments are industrial oligarchies, with a number of theocracies (either open or disguised) in the Middle East (and Ireland), plus the few remaining Stalinist* dictatorships.

    *What has traditionally been called Communism has less similarity to true Communism than I have to a cabbage (57% genetic match between human genome and brassica genome). So I never use the word Communist to describe the likes of the USSR or PR China.


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    #73
    DapperGent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,838 ✭✭✭DapperGent


    Brian Shanahan wrote: »
    I consider theocracies to be dictatorships (in the modern sense of the word dictatorship). And while Israel has the outer trappings of democracy it is essentially a theocracy, with the government kow-towing to the wishes of an extremist minority sect within Judaism. In that it is exactly the same as Iran (well, apart from the obvious Islam thing)..
    To be frank this is demonstrable nonsense. If we are to condemn Israel lets condemn it for what it is rather than for some kind of theocratic fantasy it is not.


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    #74
    Brian Shanahan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,232 ✭✭✭Brian Shanahan


    DapperGent wrote: »
    To be frank this is demonstrable nonsense. If we are to condemn Israel lets condemn it for what it is rather than for some kind of theocratic fantasy it is not.

    Well then why is it that the whole of Israel's might is expended on the protection of the same extremist minority to steal the land belonging to others? Why is it that buses cannot run on a Saturday to placate such a minority? Why is it that the extremist minority who most want the genocidal war against the Palestinians to continue are the only people exempted from military service? Why is it that the country is set up specifically as a Jewish state modelled on the religious rules of that minority?

    If that is not in substance the nature of theocracy, I am making sweet, sweet love to Osama bin Laden right at this very minute.


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    #75
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,121 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Brian Shanahan wrote: »
    I consider theocracies to be dictatorships (in the modern sense of the word dictatorship). And while Israel has the outer trappings of democracy it is essentially a theocracy, with the government kow-towing to the wishes of an extremist minority sect within Judaism. In that it is exactly the same as Iran (well, apart from the obvious Islam thing).

    I'm no fan of Israel, but I'd much rather live there than Iran. I think you probably would, too.
    *What has traditionally been called Communism has less similarity to true Communism than I have to a cabbage (57% genetic match between human genome and brassica genome). So I never use the word Communist to describe the likes of the USSR or PR China.

    Yes, every time it's been tried, communism is demonstrated to lead to misery and tyranny, but its apologists always claim that that's not true communism :rolleyes: I'd fcukin' hate to see what true communism was if false communism was that bad :pac:

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #76
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Brian Shanahan wrote: »
    I consider theocracies to be dictatorships (in the modern sense of the word dictatorship). And while Israel has the outer trappings of democracy it is essentially a theocracy, with the government kow-towing to the wishes of an extremist minority sect within Judaism. In that it is exactly the same as Iran (well, apart from the obvious Islam thing).
    Israel has serious, ongoing problems with the encroachment of religion into politics -- problems that it will have to address sooner or later -- but I wouldn't call it a theocracy, at least not yet. While Israel has many religious political parties, some of them extremist, the country does not have religious "councils" with significant executive or vetting control, as they do in Iran. And unlike Iran, secularism in Israel is strong and vocal.
    Brian Shanahan wrote: »
    What has traditionally been called Communism has less similarity to true Communism than I have to a cabbage (57% genetic match between human genome and brassica genome). So I never use the word Communist to describe the likes of the USSR or PR China.
    Well, communism is rather like christianity in that regard, as some of the core tenets of both are honorable, decent and worthwhile. However, the polities that have been created based upon these ideologies -- specifically, where the state's constitution has declared the founding to be the "foundation of the state" or somesuch, and therefore inerrant -- have had seemingly insurmountable difficulties in avoiding a descent into totalitarianism.

    The states, unfortunately, are "communist", "christian" or whatever, if only for the reason that nobody can quite agree on what constitutes "communist", "christian" etc, and what degree of extremist protection and honor are due to the ideology.


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