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British Poll On Charity-Giving Shows Atheists least generous and Muslims Most

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  • 20-07-2013 9:22pm
    #1
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭


    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/faith/article3820522.ece

    Muslims are among Britain’s most generous givers, topping a poll of religious groups that donate to charity, according to new research.


    Muslims who donated to charity last year gave an average of almost £371 each, with Jewish givers averaging just over £270 per person.
    Nearly one in ten of Jewish givers donated more than £1,000. Among Muslim givers, most donated between £300 and £500.

    Atheists, by contrast, donated an average of £116 when they gave to charity, with Roman Catholics giving slightly more than £178, other Christians slightly less than £178 and Protestants £202.

    I know it's just a poll but is there a reason other than chance behind this? Charity/Zakat is one of the pillars of Islam and I believe it is a obligation for Jews also.


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    #2
    Sonics2k
    Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/faith/article3820522.ece




    I know it's just a poll but is there a reason other than chance behind this? Charity/Zakat is one of the pillars of Islam and I believe it is a obligation for Jews also.

    I think its balanced nicely, as Atheists are less prone for running around blowing up building, murdering women for showing their faces,driving or having sex outside marriage compared to Muslims and Christians.

    :-)


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    #3
    HemlockOption
    Registered Users Posts: 239 ✭✭HemlockOption


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/faith/article3820522.ece




    I know it's just a poll but is there a reason other than chance behind this? Charity/Zakat is one of the pillars of Islam and I believe it is a obligation for Jews also.

    Money given at religious services is classed as giving to charity. Atheists possibly donate to to causes which may not be classed as charities


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    #4
    Mr. CooL ICE
    Registered Users Posts: 17,518 ✭✭✭✭Mr. CooL ICE


    Atheists tend to be skeptical by nature. I for one am also skeptical about charities and where the money is going to, which is why I only only donate to charities I trust.


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    #5
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/faith/article3820522.ece




    I know it's just a poll but is there a reason other than chance behind this? Charity/Zakat is one of the pillars of Islam and I believe it is a obligation for Jews also.


    ...it's a religious obligation. Next you'll have a poll saying observant 'wahabi muslims more likely to disapprove of gay marriage'


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    #6
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Sonics2k wrote: »
    I think its balanced nicely, as Atheists are less prone for running around blowing up building, murdering women for showing their faces,driving or having sex outside marriage compared to Muslims and Christians.

    :-)
    To be fair there are plenty of terorist atheists and groups - suicide bombers among them: Abu Nidal, Timothy McVay, FARC, The Weathermen, PKK, Tamil Tigers etc

    Rightly or wrongly each have their own POLITICAL cause as is the case when it is terrorist + Muslim

    This has nothing to do with anything though :)


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    #7
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    I suspect that there are other factors at play in this poll, but the article is behind a pay wall and I cannot find the poll itself so they are not clarified.

    Charity in this poll could mean and include donations to a church or prayer group or religious school or to other religious causes that aren't doing "proper charity work" (ie caring for the homeless or donating to cancer research etc.) If these were included in the poll, then atheists would surely be giving more to frankly more worthy charities.

    Another factor might be that there are fewer secular charities out there that some atheists would be comfortable donating to because they do not wish to donate to a religious institution, thus have fewer options and opportunities to donate.

    But hey, why worry about these factors? They kinda spoil the whole "atheists are stingy sods" thing....


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    #8
    krudler
    Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/faith/article3820522.ece




    I know it's just a poll but is there a reason other than chance behind this? Charity/Zakat is one of the pillars of Islam and I believe it is a obligation for Jews also.

    There ya go.


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    #9
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Nodin wrote: »
    ...it's a religious obligation. Next you'll have a poll saying observant 'wahabi muslims more likely to disapprove of gay marriage'
    this shows a positive side of religion right?

    And sure it is a moral obligation for everyone who can afford it to help the poor and needy?


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    #10
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,623 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Sonics2k wrote: »
    I think its balanced nicely, as Atheists are less prone for running around blowing up building, murdering women for showing their faces,driving or having sex outside marriage compared to Muslims and Christians.
    i actually winced slightly when i read this.


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    #11
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    LordChessington wrote: »
    Atheists tend to be skeptical by nature. I for one am also skeptical about charities and where the money is going to, which is why I only only donate to charities I trust.

    Right, but that reduces the number of potential benefactors not the amount you are prepared to part with - which is the point.


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    #12
    meoklmrk91
    Registered Users Posts: 4,085 ✭✭✭meoklmrk91


    LordChessington wrote: »
    Atheists tend to be skeptical by nature. I for one am also skeptical about charities and where the money is going to, which is why I only only donate to charities I trust.

    I concur, I am very careful about who I give my money to. Also while no charity can run without money this poll says nothing about donating time, I volunteer for a couple of charities and work hard at it, time is also very valuable.


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    #13
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    this shows a positive side of religion right?

    And sure it is a moral obligation for everyone who can afford it to help the poor and needy?


    ....if you can find a post where I've said that all religion and religious people are entirely negative, fire away.

    Presumably shared humanity would be enough to get people to donate where possible. The perversity of our nature makes it otherwise.


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    #14
    Turtwig
    Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    First and foremost, I'd like to know how accurate this poll is. Was it self reported? If so then it's a pile of tosh as it's a well known fact that when it comes to lifestyle questions in polls e.g What magazines you tend to read. people tend to lie - a lot! .

    Secondly, let's assume it's perfectly accurate. Then it does lead to an interesting discussion as to whether religion promotes altruism in practice.


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    #15
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Jernal wrote: »
    First and foremost, I'd like to know how accurate this poll is. Was it self reported? If so then it's a pile of tosh as it's a well known fact that when it comes to lifestyle questions in polls e.g What magazines you tend to read. people tend to lie - a lot! .

    Secondly, let's assume it's perfectly accurate. Then it does lead to an interesting discussion as to whether religion promotes altruism in practice.


    ...."Give - its the law" would certainly motivate the inner altruist. I think its 10% for Jews, can't recall with regards their muslim brethren.


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    #16
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,221 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    this shows a positive side of religion right?

    Wrong. There is no positive side of religion and the sooner humanity as a whole rejects all religion the better.

    Have a nice day, it's one closer to oblivion :)

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #17
    Sulla Felix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,442 ✭✭✭Sulla Felix


    The article is probably based on Brooks' work for the Hoover Centre. At least any article I've read along these lines seems to have been drawing on it.

    http://www.hoover.org/publications/policy-review/article/6577


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    #18
    legspin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,018 ✭✭✭legspin


    Nodin wrote: »
    ...."Give - its the law" would certainly motivate the inner altruist. I think its 10% for Jews, can't recall with regards their muslim brethren.

    It's hardly altruism if it's compulsory.

    Or am I missing the joke again?


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    #19
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    Its like being mugged by a homeless guy and then you claim it was giving to charity.

    "Why did you give your entire wallet and phone to a charity?"
    "He had a knife"


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    #20
    MrPudding
    Registered Users Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    Jernal wrote: »

    Secondly, let's assume it's perfectly accurate. Then it does lead to an interesting discussion as to whether religion promotes altruism in practice.
    Perhaps it might be altruistic in some dictionary definition kind of way, but it is not really altruistic in any sense that I would see it.

    If charitable giving is a requirement of one's belief or one gives having been told there will be a reward for giving, then is it really altruistic.

    MrP


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    #21
    smcgiff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭smcgiff


    You lose all kudos if you give to charity to appease your god.

    In the survey did they put a value on tossing a virgin into a volcano?


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    #22
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    legspin wrote: »
    It's hardly altruism if it's compulsory.

    Or am I missing the joke again?


    ....missing the joke.


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    #23
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    shruikan2553 wrote: »
    Its like being mugged by a homeless guy and then you claim it was giving to charity.

    "Why did you give your entire wallet and phone to a charity?"
    "He had a knife"

    'he had an eternally stabbing knife'.


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    #24
    Galvasean
    Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    meoklmrk91 wrote: »
    I concur, I am very careful about who I give my money to. Also while no charity can run without money this poll says nothing about donating time, I volunteer for a couple of charities and work hard at it, time is also very valuable.

    That's a factor too. Personally, the monetary amount I donate to charity each year would be reasonably low, but I'd contribute a lot of man hours.


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    #25
    MrPudding
    Registered Users Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    Galvasean wrote: »
    That's a factor too. Personally, the monetary amount I donate to charity each year would be reasonably low, but I'd contribute a lot of man hours.

    Yeah. Same here.

    MrP


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    #26
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Nodin wrote: »
    ....if you can find a post where I've said that all religion and religious people are entirely negative, fire away.

    Presumably shared humanity would be enough to get people to donate where possible. The perversity of our nature makes it otherwise.

    You haven't really answered either question. I never said you said anything about religious people or religion as being entirely negative am I asking your opinion if the fact that religious give more generously than non-religious is a positive aspect of of religion.

    Also, I asked if it was your opinion that there was a moral obligation on all who could afford it to help out to poor and needs in our society.


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    #27
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    You haven't really answered either question. I never said you said anything about religious people or religion as being entirely negative am I asking your opinion if the fact that religious give more generously than non-religious is a positive aspect of of religion..

    ....where it exists. However it would be better if people gave out of a sense of personal obligation rather than duty. You'd do better if you spent less time trying to load your questions.
    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Also, I asked if it was your opinion that there was a moral obligation on all who could afford it to help out to poor and needs in our society.

    I believe so, yes.


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    #28
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    smcgiff wrote: »
    You lose all kudos if you give to charity to appease your god.

    In the survey did they put a value on tossing a virgin into a volcano?

    You can work out what a Muslim is obliged to pay in the UK based on average UK salaries and average UK household costs (and this is before a penny is paid on luxuries)

    And you get 125 pound.

    If you take this amount from the avg donated by Muslims in the poll you get Muslims as being twice as generous towards charities by choice - and this is even after they have paid their obligations towards charities.

    I don't want to turn this into a dick swinging contest. I think it's interesting to explore the possible underlying reasons Such as are atheist more concerned with matters of self-interest? Do atheists lack the sense of brotherhood present in religions?


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    #29
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    ninja900 wrote: »
    Wrong. There is no positive side of religion and the sooner humanity as a whole rejects all religion the better.

    Have a nice day, it's one closer to oblivion :)

    So feeding some orphans in the third world for example is negative if the charity has been inspired by religion.

    Have you thought this through?


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    #30
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users Posts: 16,120 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    I don't want to turn this into a dick swinging contest.

    It started out as a dick swinging contest.


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    #31
    DapperGent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,838 ✭✭✭DapperGent


    I would imagine the skew in this poll is that religious tithing would be considered by many people as a charitable donation though I don't know if I would feel the same. Is putting money on the plate at Sunday mass a charitable donation? I wouldn't consider it to be so personally, it's more akin to membership dues.

    Besides all that a self-reporting poll is worthless not even essentially worthless, just worthless.


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