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Ulster Bank playing Hardball on unsustainable Mortgage

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  • 25-04-2013 7:59pm
    #1
    grumbleweed
    Registered Users Posts: 127 ✭✭


    Hi Guys

    Without getting into the "nuts and bolts" of my situation just yet , does anyone here know of anybody who has managed to get a letter of unsustainability (re) a mortgage from Ulster Bank and are Ulster Bank not obliged by law to issue one when it has been proved over the last 2 years (approx) that the mortgage is unsustainable. One of there KAM agents (key account managers) told us they will not issue us with one as it is not the banks policy to do so.

    Cheers


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    #2
    AltAccount
    Registered Users Posts: 2,058 ✭✭✭AltAccount


    What's a letter of unsustainability, and what difference would it make?

    Your mortgage is unsustainable when you owe more than you could ever realistically repay (I think the line is drawn at 18 months of arrears accumulated).


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    #3
    grumbleweed
    Registered Users Posts: 127 ✭✭grumbleweed


    This is a letter of unsustainability

    http://misc.mortgagebrokers.ie/images/blogimages/2013/April2013/2013%20voluntary%20surrender%20letter.jpg

    The important line being "The contractual mortgage repayments are now unsustainable"


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    #4
    AltAccount
    Registered Users Posts: 2,058 ✭✭✭AltAccount


    I still don't understand the significance, do you want to surrender your home? Are they not accepting your proposal?


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    #5
    chris85
    Registered Users Posts: 4,502 ✭✭✭chris85


    What will this letter do for you? It changes nothing really except that they are acknowledging you cant pay it, which they know already. That doesnt mean you dont owe it and can still be pursued for surrender of the property if they wish.


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    #6
    grumbleweed
    Registered Users Posts: 127 ✭✭grumbleweed


    Im aware of all of the above however in order to get on to a social housing list with South Dublin Co Co and in order to be eligible for rent supplement so me and my family are not left homeless when we do loose our house , as i am unemployed i need to be able to produce a letter of unsustainability which ulster bank will not give me .

    So my original question ...does anyone here know of anybody who has managed to get a letter of unsustainability (re) a mortgage from Ulster Bank .


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    #7
    Scortho
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,876 ✭✭✭Scortho


    grumbleweed wrote: »
    Im aware of all of the above however in order to get on to a social housing list with South Dublin Co Co and in order to be eligible for rent supplement so me and my family are not left homeless when we do loose our house , as i am unemployed i need to be able to produce a letter of unsustainability which ulster bank will not give me .

    So my original question ...does anyone here know of anybody who has managed to get a letter of unsustainability (re) a mortgage from Ulster Bank .

    I haven't heard of anyone getting it.

    That said personal insolvency is probably your best bet.
    At the moment the bank isn't allowed repossess as a result of a ruling made in 2009 by judge Elizabeth Dunne.

    If you engage in the new legislation, I can see you still being I'm your house in three years time.
    If you engage with your lenders through the new legislation, and surrender the house I can't see any reason why you wouldn't be able to go on the local authority's housing list.
    The only thing that might stop you is if you're employed then.

    Best thing to do is to sit tight and wait. The bank can't reposses your home at the moment but will be changing shortly when the new personal insolvency legislation gets passed. That said if you go through the process of personal insolvency it'll be a few years before they repossess the house. They've a load of btls to work through first.

    If you surrender the house at the moment, you are still liable for anything outstanding. If you wait a few months you won't be to the same extent.


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    #8
    Cushie Butterfield
    Registered Users Posts: 1,861 ✭✭✭Cushie Butterfield


    My (limited) understanding of the MARP process is that firstly it is the bank that decide whether or not the mortgage is unsustainable & that it's not a decision they make on demand or by the borrower's request. They mustn't feel that it is, but they must provide a letter stating so if they plan going ahead with repossession.

    With regards to social housing all you need to do is register with your local housing authority as soon as your home has been repossessed, or as soon as you have documentation to prove that repossession proceedings or voluntary surrender are in place . Once you are assessed by them as being in need of housing you will be put on the housing list & can rent from a private landlord & apply for rent supplement until such a time that a local authority house comes up.

    I would have thought that it is a good thing that the bank are not saying that your mortgage is unsustainable.They may feel that they can come to some sort of alternative arrangement with you.


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    #9
    grumbleweed
    Registered Users Posts: 127 ✭✭grumbleweed


    or as soon as you have documentation to prove that repossession proceedings or voluntary surrender are in place

    Letter of unsustainability


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    #10
    Scortho
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,876 ✭✭✭Scortho


    grumbleweed wrote: »
    or as soon as you have documentation to prove that repossession proceedings or voluntary surrender are in place

    Letter of unsustainability

    Are repossessions underway? Very few are happening at the moment.
    I wouldn't surrender it under the current guidelines anyway.
    Wait until personal insolvency.


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    #11
    AltAccount
    Registered Users Posts: 2,058 ✭✭✭AltAccount


    Scortho wrote: »
    Are repossessions underway?

    This

    If you're dealing with a KAM instead of their litigation dept, I'd believe you're not at repo/VS stage.

    What's your current stage if the arrears process? Are you engaging? How many months in arrears are you?


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    #12
    Cushie Butterfield
    Registered Users Posts: 1,861 ✭✭✭Cushie Butterfield


    grumbleweed wrote: »
    or as soon as you have documentation to prove that repossession proceedings or voluntary surrender are in place

    Letter of unsustainability
    Not necessarily - could be refusal to interact with bank or refusal or ceasing to adhere to/refusal to agree to the terms of an alternative repayment arrangement. In that case, after due process set out under MARP it would be notice of repossession. They decide if a mortgage is unsustainable - not you.

    The whole process isn't designed to be a carte blanche to social housing. It's designed so that distressed borrowers can remain in their homes by coming to an alternative arrangement with their borrower. You can pick certain phrases or sentences & highlight them in bold all you like but the fact is that this won't change anything - you have to take into account what's contained in the rest of the paragraphs.

    As it stands, you aren't presently in need of social housing, so it's not surprising that Dublin Co Council won't assess you as being so, & as others have pointed out to you repossession would be a long way down the road, so getting on the housing list is the least of your worries at the moment.


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