Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 12/13

LiamoSail · 26-12-2012 11:55PM

rarnes1 wrote: »

Not sure how you make that out.

We have less points, less goals, more conceded.

Rodgers has also had substantially less of a tx budget, a smaller wage budget and took over an under performing side. Not a defence of Rodgers, just an observation that the previous incumbent's were as bad relatively

eagle eye · 26-12-2012 11:56PM

I don't think you can blame the players. Every time over the past two years that I've seen a team sit deep and counter against a Brendan Rogers team they seem to have success. If you go at a team coached by him it seems his team has success against you.

I think the blame for these poor performances have to be placed on Rogers. When you have one or two players not up to standard regularly you can blame them but not when its the majority of a team.

26-12-2012 11:56PM

murpho999 wrote: »

League position, anything outside top 4 should be sh1te enough.

If you only judge us by getting top 4, I have a feeling you'll have many years of disappointment ahead. Can't see us getting it in the next 3 years anyway, we are falling further and further behind every year..

Rafa got 63 points in his final disasterous season

Hodgson / Kenny picked up 58 the following season.

Last season under Kenny the team picked up 52 points.

This season we are on schedule to hit 50 points on current ppg.

Utopia Parkway · 26-12-2012 11:56PM

kingshankly wrote: »

It's a long time since I seen so many players play so bad
Reina has lost all confidence and is now terrible with the ball at his feet
Johnson worst game of the season
Agger / skirtel both terrible
Enrique defended brilliantly at times and terrible at other
Gerard wasn't the worst but was poor
Lucas non existent offered little
Suso showed some nice touches but why was he picked to play against stoke
Downing thought he did a few decent things in fairness but faded in the 2 half
Suarez was the only decent performer we had tried hard and couldn't fault his effort or desire
Shelvey now this was probably one of the worst performances I have seen a professional footballer ever put in. Terrible touch and kept giving the ball away
Henderson terrible when he came on
Sterling terrible first touch at times offered little.

We were totally leaderless today no drive no desire to win the ball back .
Players have let down the manager big time and the manager has let down the fans

To be fair to Enrique he was one of the very few who consistently got stuck in and kept running during the game. Even at 3-1 down.

Raif Severance · 27-12-2012 12:11AM

Oh Boy, where to start?

Ok, let's go with the most obvious, Our Defense. I hate to say it, but our Defense is so ****ty, it can be barely called one. We go to panic attacks when we are pressed. And you know what? All the Prem Teams knows this.

Not to mention, we are also very susceptible to long balls and counterattacks, which makes playing against us, very easy to do and plan.

I love Skrtel and Agger, but I don't think the new system suits them. I wasn't a member back then, but once Man City made a decent offer for Agger, I was of the mind to sell him.

In our old one, whatever individual deficiencies our CBs have can be masked. Because they were afforded protection in our compact play. Not in our new system though.

In our new system, we use the width of the pitch and try to stretch teams and to find the gaps within the spaces. We also make full use of our fullbacks as another attacking outlet, thereby leaving our CBs and our DM as our only defensive shield against our opponent's counterattack. If our last 3 can't contain the initial thrust or blunt them long enough to allow our other players to scramble back and help, then we're screwed.

I don't have to tell you how often this has happen to us. Yeah, it isn't pretty.

If the Owners are still keen on playing this system, then we definitely need a new CB. We need someone good in the air, comfortable on the ball, and can pass with composure. Most importantly, we need someone Strong enough not to wilt like a Shy Maiden against the Bentekes, Jones, and Coles of the World.

Our Midfield is just as imbalanced. Very soft as butter. They don't show enough in our own half to provide passing outlets to relieve some pressure of our defence, they also don't do a better job of keeping the ball and picking the right passes in the final third.

It's also absolutely mind-boggling why we persist on carrying Passengers and Liabilities in our Midfield. I'm sorry but we're not Man United that can afford playing Scholes and Giggs, our Offense barely ticks as it is.

For this, I fault Rodgers for continuing to play both Gerrard and Shelvey. Why make it easier for other teams to beat us? It makes no god-damn sense.

And FFS stop asking for a contract extension for Gerrard. He's a Legend. He's the reason why I'm a Liverpool Fan. But and it's a big BUT, when it's time to go, then it's time to go!

I don't want him to be like Scholes or Giggs, playing when they are long past it and now being hated by their own fans that once adored them. I don't want him to end like that, I want him to hang up his boots with dignity and respect.

I like Rodgers, but he keeps on doing things that infuriate me. I hope to God, he pulls a Rabbit out of his hat by January and improve us massively onwards. I'm not asking much. Hell, I'm not even asking for 4th this year. All I want is improvement and effort and no SHELVEY! :mad:

BorneTobyWilde · 27-12-2012 12:13AM

Reina, My God, He treats shots on goal as penalties !
Done it at start of season, I thought he had cut it out,
But no, Does it again for first,If he stands big like a proper keeper
he gets hand to walters shot, It went in right where he dived out of the
way! COME ON! Stand large,More than capable of pulling of a reaction save,
But no he dives before anyone even shoots!
Seen him do it to many times this season !
Lesson number one for any keeper, Stay on feet for as long as possible, then react to save,
No matter if its one on one and player is 3 feet away !
Stand big, React

MyBrokenKnees · 27-12-2012 12:14AM

Begovic would be a good shout at a keeper to buy!

27-12-2012 12:14AM

Agger's been very good this season.

kingshankly · 27-12-2012 12:17AM

rarnes1 wrote: »

Agger's been very good this season.

He has been good but he was battered tonight

BorneTobyWilde · 27-12-2012 12:19AM

And as I thought Rodgers put zero thought into how to take stoke down!
ZERO!
We played right into there hands, Playing Suso ! Away to stoke,
Sterling made no impact, I for one can't see it, The megastar that is Sterling,
Always said he was weak, And never beats his man, I just can't see the hype being justified yet

I would have started Henderson and Allen,Packed midfield, And held a high line,

27-12-2012 12:23AM

kingshankly wrote: »

He has been good but he was battered tonight

The whole team was bar Suarez.

In hindsight, maybe Coates should have been playing alongside the two lads at the back with 2 wing backs in a 3-5-2 or along those lines.

It clearly wasn't working from early on and should have been changed.

BorneTobyWilde · 27-12-2012 12:23AM

We can win next four,
We have great chance to win 4 on bounce

darced · 27-12-2012 12:25AM

This post has been deleted.

Courtesy Flush · 27-12-2012 12:26AM

Lads is this team being coached defensively ?
Because we seem to be conceeding the same silly goals depsite the megastars of Agger, Skrtel and Lucas all on the pitch

Jayob10 · 27-12-2012 12:26AM

rarnes1 wrote: »

Agger's been very good this season.

He has stayed fit, but he hasn't been particularly good in all fairness.

The defence has shipped too many goals for anyone to be getting excessive credit.

Agger has alot of fans, he is a lovely footballer yes but he has not been at his best at all this season.

This is part of the problem with us as a club, the players we deem as being our key players are absolved of any blame every time.

Agger has been a key man in a defence which has shipped 28 goals this season.

Our supposed best players (Reina, Agger, Skrtel) are performing just as poorly as the ones who seem to attract most of the criticism.

MyBrokenKnees · 27-12-2012 12:28AM

Since we are having a go at everyone

Can someone sack the boot man our players never seem to have the right studs in when they play the slip way to much.

Super-Rush · 27-12-2012 12:30AM

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

And as I thought Rodgers put zero thought into how to take stoke down!
ZERO!
We played right into there hands, Playing Suso ! Away to stoke,
Sterling made no impact, I for one can't see it, The megastar that is Sterling,
Always said he was weak, And never beats his man, I just can't see the hype being justified yet

I would have started Henderson and Allen,Packed midfield, And held a high line,

Suso done nothing wrong, in fact he played Suarez through for a goal but he mis-controlled it and didn't deserve to be subbed before Shelvey.

Why he insists with Shelvey is a mystery to me, as is bringing on Joe Cole when you're 3-1 down. The lads like Pacheco might as well throw the towel in and move for the sake of their careers. Sahin should get on the first plane back to Madrid and put this joke of a load deal out if his mind and move on.

I'm very worried about Agger and Skrtel. Bullied by Carlton Cole, Christian Benteke and Kenwyne Jones is not what should happen to your starting centre backs.

27-12-2012 12:31AM

Jayob10 wrote: »

He has stayed fit, but he hasn't been particularly good in all fairness.

The defence has shipped too many goals for anyone to be getting excessive credit.

Agger has alot of fans, he is a lovely footballer yes but he has not been at his best at all this season.

This is part of the problem with us as a club, the player we deem as being our key players are absolved of any blame every time.

Agger has been a key man in a defence which has shipped 28 goals this season.

Our defense as a whole has been poor, no questions there.

Poor keeper(s), no LB and not enough protection certainly played its part.

Agger is the least of our worries at defense imo.

Skippy44 · 27-12-2012 12:33AM

Neutral view here. Apart from lack of quality in Liverpools overall play, I thought that the lack of attention to detail on their behalf was poor. Skrtl fell over when trying to defend Stoke's equaliser, Suso fell over numerous times during the first half and Handerson's first (and only) meaningful involvement in the match was about 2 minutes after he came on, when in the box in a potentially dangerous situation.......he fell over and handled the ball. I didn't notice the Stoke players having the same problem. Just something I noticed during the match, and whatever about Skrtl and Suso, there should be no excuse for Henderson, seeing as he watched the first hour from the bench.

Courtesy Flush · 27-12-2012 12:33AM

Lads ye reckon Suarez will go in January or wait till summer ?

27-12-2012 12:34AM

Courtesy Flush wrote: »

Lads ye reckon Suarez will go in January or wait till summer ?

You're doing it wrong.

segadreamcast · 27-12-2012 12:37AM

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

And as I thought Rodgers put zero thought into how to take stoke down!
ZERO!
We played right into there hands, Playing Suso ! Away to stoke,
Sterling made no impact, I for one can't see it, The megastar that is Sterling,
Always said he was weak, And never beats his man, I just can't see the hype being justified yet

I would have started Henderson and Allen,Packed midfield, And held a high line,

For what it's worth, your setup seems fairly close to being on the money to me. Was sad to see Rodgers rewarding last week's performance by naming an unchanged side but, broadly speaking, what works at home to Fulham won't necessarily work away to Stoke... but this is an obvious point.

On a more general point, and I said it back in the Man City match thread I think, but Sterling really should've been used far more sparingly than he has been of late - really not surprised that his game has faded, as defenders learn how best to contain him and he fails to add new dimensions to his game, his confidence and his star are going to fade to an extent. A few games of a rest would do no harm.

Today was very very disappointing and meandering and lethargic and, in truth, I couldn't single out anybody but Suarez for praise.

While I'm a big believer in "getting the most out of what you have", it's hard to ignore next week's transfer window looming large now - and I'd be fundamentally of the opinion that Sturridge is a huge mistake, and a waste of both money and a squad number. The only real positive I could take from it is that Rodgers has at least identified what area of the pitch needs reinforcement.

Finally, after today's performances, is there anything to be said for even looking at rotating Coates in to our defence? Granted, I think Johnson and Enrique (and therefore, the "system") were mostly responsible for the pressure and the failings, but it seems bizarre to have a £6m player working as a permanent benchwarmer and occasional cup player.

segadreamcast · 27-12-2012 12:40AM

Jayob10 wrote: »

He has stayed fit, but he hasn't been particularly good in all fairness.

The defence has shipped too many goals for anyone to be getting excessive credit.

Agger has alot of fans, he is a lovely footballer yes but he has not been at his best at all this season.

This is part of the problem with us as a club, the players we deem as being our key players are absolved of any blame every time.

Agger has been a key man in a defence which has shipped 28 goals this season.

Our supposed best players (Reina, Agger, Skrtel) are performing just as poorly as the ones who seem to attract most of the criticism.

Not sure it's fair to blame individuals on a macro view, though for individual instances (Skrtel falling over...), I suppose blame can be apportioned.

The reality is that under this system, with Johnson and Enrique going forward so often, it is still stretching Agger and Skrtel in a way that isn't necessarily working for them as players. Doesn't mean they've disimproved as such, and think at least 60% of the blame would have to go in the direction of the system they're under.

Raif Severance · 27-12-2012 12:46AM

segadreamcast wrote: »

Finally, after today's performances, is there anything to be said for even looking at rotating Coates in to our defence? Granted, I think Johnson and Enrique (and therefore, the "system") were mostly responsible for the pressure and the failings, but it seems bizarre to have a £6m player working as a permanent benchwarmer and occasional cup player.

Not only Coates but Wisdom. I am actually of the opinion to use either one of them to mark the Danger Man.

Skrtle and Agger is just too lightweight for the work. They are just getting abused. And the opposition player, pretty much do whatever he wants.

Coates and Wisdom, might actually be better proposition against Teams like Everton, Stokes, West Ham and Villa.

Not only that, we need Proper Midfielders against those team. Midfielders that are willing to cover lots of ground, to initiate offense and help in defense too.
So that means either no Gerrard and Shelvey or just one of them. We can't afford both.

kingshankly · 27-12-2012 12:47AM

Skippy44 wrote: »

Neutral view here. Apart from lack of quality in Liverpools overall play, I thought that the lack of attention to detail on their behalf was poor. Skrtl fell over when trying to defend Stoke's equaliser, Suso fell over numerous times during the first half and Handerson's first (and only) meaningful involvement in the match was about 2 minutes after he came on, when in the box in a potentially dangerous situation.......he fell over and handled the ball. I didn't notice the Stoke players having the same problem. Just something I noticed during the match, and whatever about Skrtl and Suso, there should be no excuse for Henderson, seeing as he watched the first hour from the bench.

Their right full slipped a couple of times if I remember correctly

Yakult · 27-12-2012 12:49AM

Bring back Steve Clarke. Defending is atrocious this season.

michael999999 · 27-12-2012 12:50AM

Yakult wrote: »

Bring back Steve Clarke. Defending is atrocious this season.

Some might say we should have kept him, and made him manager!

MyBrokenKnees · 27-12-2012 12:53AM

I'm going to say it Brendan Rodgers is a footballing snob!

He may turn into the greatest footballing manager of all time but he is a snob.

LuckyLloyd · 27-12-2012 01:04AM

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

And as I thought Rodgers put zero thought into how to take stoke down!
ZERO!
We played right into there hands, Playing Suso ! Away to stoke,
Sterling made no impact, I for one can't see it, The megastar that is Sterling,
Always said he was weak, And never beats his man, I just can't see the hype being justified yet

I would have started Henderson and Allen,Packed midfield, And held a high line,

This man called it before the game. There was no adjustments made tonight for the very particular challenge presented by Stoke. Lack of preparation, not acceptable.

Skippy44 · 27-12-2012 01:06AM

kingshankly wrote: »

Their right full slipped a couple of times if I remember correctly

Oh right, I didn't spot that. My point still stands tho. One other thing bugs med about the team selection for this game tho. Rodgers has mentioned before about his admiration for Joe Allen's ability to elude pressure from either side, to turn and pass the ball off under duress. IMO this was needed tonight, but he wasn't used, strange I think.

Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 12/13

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