Irish Olympic Marathon selection put on long finger

tunguska · 21-05-2012 5:48pm

macinalli wrote: »

This was always going to be a hard call as no two marathons are the same, but do you think this was a bad decision by Maria to race in Rome? Given that the likes of Rotterdam & Berlin are supposed to be faster courses, it seemed odd to pick a course like Rome for such an important race.

Yeah I think rome was a mistake. Maybe she thought rotterdamn was too close to the olympics? I dunno. Just realised, maria beat ava hutchison in dublin marathon aswell last year, by 2 minutes. So head to head, over the marathon distance, in the same race, shes beaten two out of the other 3 women.

ecoli · 21-05-2012 5:51pm

tunguska wrote: »

Yeah I think rome was a mistake. Maybe she thought rotterdamn was too close to the olympics? I dunno. Just realised, maria beat ava hutchison in dublin marathon aswell last year, by 2 minutes. So head to head, over the marathon distance, in the same race, shes beaten two out of the other 3 women.

Not to mention proving current fitness with her 10k last week

Guess they are looking towards long term development (right or wrongly).

Interestingly poor race choice has cost many runners there spots this year in a number of Marathon teams (G Mutai and T Kebede in Boston come to mind)

Krusty_Clown · 21-05-2012 6:21pm

It's really unfortunate as she's in staggering shape (amazing run in the Ballycotton 10 mile in March), super performance last week, so she didn't just peak for her marathon, she's been in great shape for the last few months (criteria A). Has beaten most of the other runners (Criteria C and Criteria D). Then there's Criteria B, which must be made-up on the spot to give the selectors an 'out'.

Really sad for her to miss out like this. At the end of the day though, the goal for this event will be blooding the athletes, and trying to finish as high up in the finishing rankings as possible (and it would be difficult to predict who that might be, in this sort of unique race environment).

jailhouse_dave · 21-05-2012 6:22pm

tunguska wrote: »

If the two were to run a marathon tomorrow maria would beat her, that im 100% sure of.

ultrapercy wrote: »

Grounds for an appeal right there

tunguska · 21-05-2012 6:30pm

ecoli wrote: »

Not to mention proving current fitness with her 10k last week

Missed that one. What 10k did she run? What was her time?

ecoli · 21-05-2012 6:53pm

tunguska wrote: »

Missed that one. What 10k did she run? What was her time?

33.22 on track at the gradeds

liamo123 · 21-05-2012 6:57pm

tunguska wrote: »

Im shocked by that. Maria regularly gives catriona jennings a pasting. Has jennings ever finished ahead of maria mc cambridge in a race?
Thats a joke.

I can see where ur coming from but personally im delighted Caitriona got picked.... Finally injury free and she would have gone slightly faster in Rotterdam except for an unfortunate incident about 4 miles from home... She can and will go alot quicker and TBH it would'nt surprise me if she's 1st of the Irish contingent home in london....

Pherekydes · 21-05-2012 6:58pm

Truman Burbank wrote: »

I'd say she'll appeal. Would bet on it even.

Maybe hold your horses until PP sets the book:

“The decision has been made and I will be accepting it,” said Letterkenny AC runner McCambridge, who was seeking selection to her second Olympics, having competed in the 5,000 metres in 2004.

“It has been an agonising wait but at least now it’s over and I can get on with other things because these past couple of weeks have been difficult with so much riding on something that is actually out of your hands. The wait just consumes your life, it’s difficult to concentrate and hard to sleep. One minute you are confident and the next you feel down in the dumps.

“Like the others in I was keeping my fingers crossed that I would make it but at least now the agonising wait is over and I can get on with other things.”

ultrapercy · 21-05-2012 7:04pm

tunguska wrote: »

How is it unfair, its calling a spade a spade. Tell me when did catriona jennings ever finish ahead of maria mc cambridge in a race? Dublin marathon last year maria finished a full 3 minutes ahead of jennings. Rome marathon is ka lot tougher than rotterdamn. If the two were to run a marathon tomorrow maria would beat her, that im 100% sure of.

I dont want to take you up the wrong way, so could you elaborate on how Im being unfair?

I think it was a realy tough call, no way was it clear cut. Whatever 3 were picked it could be argued. Personaly I would have picked Jennings and Mc Cambridge but I cant make a convincing arguement to leave any of them out.What I mean is respect the girls picked they achieved the standard and deserve their place, not more than Maria, just deserve.Life isnt always fair.

tunguska · 21-05-2012 7:22pm

ultrapercy wrote: »

I think it was a realy tough call, no way was it clear cut. Whatever 3 were picked it could be argued. Personaly I would have picked Jennings and Mc Cambridge but I cant make a convincing arguement to leave any of them out.What I mean is respect the girls picked they achieved the standard and deserve their place, not more than Maria, just deserve.Life isnt always fair.

I really dont think jennings deserves to go above any of the other 3 women. You gotta take race results head to head into account, and other race results in national competition. What national competitions has catriona jennings won? Nothing. Ava hucthinson won the national half marathon last year. Maria mc cambridge the year before(over an absolute beast of a course). Linda byrne is national marathon champion and won the inter-clubs cross country championships(beating ava hutchinson by a country mile) plus she pretty much single handed won the road relays for dsd a few weeks ago. In the frank duffy 10miler in august(which serves as dublin10mile championships) maria mc cambridge beat jennings by nearly 90seconds and as I already said, in the dublin marathon. Add to that the 10k she ran in last week in 33xx. Jennings ran the standard in rotterdamn and thats it. Shes done nothing else, unlike the other 3 women who've all won national races against stiff competiton.
I just think its a bizarre decision. I get the blooding new talent argument but at the same time, I think thats an old horse thats carted out to fob people off. Theres blooding new talent and then theres being fair and looking at consistancy of performances.

ecoli · 21-05-2012 7:35pm

Truman Burbank wrote: »

Can she go in the 10k with a B standard?

She is over a min off the B Standard (32.10) but I reckon theoretically they could perhaps send her if she got it given the extenuating circumstances

ultrapercy · 21-05-2012 7:48pm

tunguska wrote: »

I really dont think jennings deserves to go above any of the other 3 women. You gotta take race results head to head into account, and other race results in national competition. What national competitions has catriona jennings won? Nothing. Ava hucthinson won the national half marathon last year. Maria mc cambridge the year before(over an absolute beast of a course). Linda byrne is national marathon champion and won the inter-clubs cross country championships(beating ava hutchinson by a country mile) plus she pretty much single handed won the road relays for dsd a few weeks ago. In the frank duffy 10miler in august(which serves as dublin10mile championships) maria mc cambridge beat jennings by nearly 90seconds and as I already said, in the dublin marathon. Add to that the 10k she ran in last week in 33xx. Jennings ran the standard in rotterdamn and thats it. Shes done nothing else, unlike the other 3 women who've all won national races against stiff competiton.
I just think its a bizarre decision. I get the blooding new talent argument but at the same time, I think thats an old horse thats carted out to fob people off. Theres blooding new talent and then theres being fair and looking at consistancy of performances.

I dont want to argue just for arguements sake but to be totaly fair the 3 fastest runners were picked(am I right in saying this?). Taking into account other races at other times over other distances isnt fair either. Im not making a case for McCambridges ommission just saying it was a hard choice.No matter who was left out they would rightly have a justifiable griveance.

tunguska · 21-05-2012 7:56pm

ultrapercy wrote: »

I dont want to argue just for arguements sake but to be totaly fair the 3 fastest runners were picked(am I right in saying this?). Taking into account other races at other times over other distances isnt fair either. Im not making a case for McCambridges ommission just saying it was a hard choice.No matter who was left out they would rightly have a justifiable griveance.

Yeah I know, not into arguing for the sake of argument so I'll leave it at that.

rom · 21-05-2012 8:02pm

Very hard for Maria, Course record in Ballycotton this year was some run.

T runner · 21-05-2012 9:17pm

tunguska wrote: »

How is it unfair, its calling a spade a spade. Tell me when did catriona jennings ever finish ahead of maria mc cambridge in a race? Dublin marathon last year maria finished a full 3 minutes ahead of jennings. Rome marathon is a lot tougher than rotterdamn. If the two were to run a marathon tomorrow maria would beat her, that im 100% sure of.

I dont want to take you up the wrong way, so could you elaborate on how Im being unfair?

Rotterdam was running 90s slow this year (force 5 wind) unless you were hiding in a group
which catriona wasnt. That means that she was easily in sub 2.35 shape. Marias pb is 2.35.30 in good conditions on a fast course. That means that catriona ran a better marathon in Rotterdam than marias best marathon. The question is who would run faster in London? If catriona even repeats her marathon performance from Rotterdam then one would have to
back her. If she impoves again with another big aerobic stimulus then shell go lower again.

The object of any selection is optimum performance for Ireland. It seems to me, tough as it is, that catriona is more likely to run faster. The weakest marathon btw I thought was avas but it was fastest which made her safe.

tunguska · 21-05-2012 9:32pm

T runner wrote: »

. Marias pb is 2.35.30 in good conditions on a fast course.

Not a chance. Maria ran that time in dublin and rotterdamn is far easier than dublin.

T runner · 21-05-2012 9:39pm

tunguska wrote: »

Not a chance. Maria ran that time in dublin and rotterdamn is far easier than dublin.

She ran 2.36xx in Dublin 4 years ago. She ran her pb in Paris years ago. Paris on a good day runs over a minute quicker than Rotterdam in a force 5 wind.

Peterx · 21-05-2012 10:22pm

Very hard for Maria to be the one that doesn't go though. All of them worked very hard for it and any of them would have compelling arguments if they weren't picked.

I'm delighted for the other 3 she has decided not to appeal, as she said herself the uncertainty of not knowing was was nearly the worst thing and to have it thrown back into the air again after hearing the selection would not be pleasant for anyone.

Burgman · 22-05-2012 12:21am

tunguska wrote: »

What national competitions has catriona jennings won? Nothing. Ava hucthinson won the national half marathon last year. Maria mc cambridge the year before(over an absolute beast of a course).

Please be fair and accurate when making assertions: Caitriona Jennings won the national half marathon the year before that again (i.e. 2009 in Ballybofey, not an easy course).

You could well be right about the head to head but, in my opinion, Jennings, although not a world beater, has great toughness and can be guaranteed to run a PB in London.

Kurt Godel · 22-05-2012 7:58am

Dejected runner will not appeal decision

TOM O'RIORDAN

ATHLETICS: MARIA McCAMBRIDGE put on a brave face yesterday after learning that she was the marathon runner to lose out in the selection process for the three women who will make up the Irish challenge in the event for the Olympic Games in London during the first two weeks in August.

She will not take up the option of lodging an appeal against the decision which was made yesterday by the five-member Athletic Ireland selection committee.
...
The disappointing news was delivered in a phone call to McCambridge by Kevin Ankrom, the AAI performance director. “I know there is an appeal process but I could not see the selectors going back on their decision. It would be just impossible for them and so I’ll be taking this decision on the chin.”

If there was one regret being held by McCambridge it was opting for the Rome marathon to get the time and not one of the other big city events. “I just feel I made a bad choice in opting for Rome rather than somewhere else, like LA, because the course in Rome was very difficult and I had some awful problems with the cobblestones.Now I will try and pick up the pieces for Dublin in October because I still think there is a fast marathon in my legs.”

shels4ever · 22-05-2012 9:35am

Kurt Godel wrote: »

Dejected runner will not appeal decision

class act.

G-Money · 22-05-2012 11:56am

Shame she didn't get into the team but with 4 runners with the A standard, someone was always going to be left out.

Quite the contrast to the male team, where only 1 person got the A standard. Do we have any runners with the B standard (if there is one) and wouldn't it have been better to send them seeing we don't have any others with the A standard? Its unlikely Ireland would ever win the Olympic marathon but it would have been good experience for some others and who's to say they couldn't improve anyway and get the A standard at some point in the not too distant future.

pa4 · 22-05-2012 11:59am

disappointed maria didn't get picked although i cant say im to suprised since shes not from dublin, the aai always seem to give preference to dublin athletes

shels4ever · 22-05-2012 12:06pm

pa4 wrote: »

disappointed maria didn't get picked although i cant say im to suprised since shes not from dublin, the aai always seem to give preference to dublin athletes

Eh ? where is she from? Think you need to check your facts there, she might have moved out of dublin but she's a dublin gal.

Krusty_Clown · 22-05-2012 12:13pm

pa4 wrote: »

disappointed maria didn't get picked although i cant say im to suprised since shes not from dublin, the aai always seem to give preference to dublin athletes

Nice bit of bigotry there. Maria McCambridge - Place of Birth - Baile Átha Cliath/Dublin

D Chief · 22-05-2012 12:46pm

pa4 wrote: »

disappointed maria didn't get picked although i cant say im to suprised since shes not from dublin, the aai always seem to give preference to dublin athletes

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Nice bit of bigotry there. Maria McCambridge - Place of Birth - Baile Átha Cliath/Dublin

And Caitriona Jennings is from Letterkenny but based in Dublin:
http://www.donegaldemocrat.ie/sport/local-sport/marathon-hopefuls-not-enjoying-the-waiting-game-1-3798504

thirtyfoot · 22-05-2012 12:46pm

pa4 wrote: »

disappointed maria didn't get picked although i cant say im to suprised since shes not from dublin, the aai always seem to give preference to dublin athletes

Classic. The chips on the shoulders of country folk in athletics always amuses me, the 'them in Dublin' mentality. I'm from the country by the way. The one person who lost out is a Dub!

myflipflops · 22-05-2012 1:19pm

thirtyfoot wrote: »

Classic. The chips on the shoulders of country folk in athletics always amuses me, the 'them in Dublin' mentality. I'm from the country by the way. The one person who lost out is a Dub!

Let's not ignore the huge anti Donegal bias that would come from Patsy McGonagle on the selection committee too. He cannot stand athletes representing Donegal clubs.

ultrapercy · 22-05-2012 1:30pm

myflipflops wrote: »

Let's not ignore the huge anti Donegal bias that would come from Patsy McGonagle on the selection committee too. He cannot stand athletes representing Donegal clubs.

Look there was about 1 minute covering the 4 athletes so it was a tough decision. The 3 fastest times were picked, as a tiebreaker fastest time was the only method they could use without being accused of bias.Naturaly if you personaly know or favour one of the 4 over the others youl feel agrived if that athlete isnt picked but the selectors used the most transparent method of selection open to them.

Gringo78 · 22-05-2012 1:51pm

G-Money wrote: »

Shame she didn't get into the team but with 4 runners with the A standard, someone was always going to be left out.

Quite the contrast to the male team, where only 1 person got the A standard. Do we have any runners with the B standard (if there is one) and wouldn't it have been better to send them seeing we don't have any others with the A standard? Its unlikely Ireland would ever win the Olympic marathon but it would have been good experience for some others and who's to say they couldn't improve anyway and get the A standard at some point in the not too distant future.

You can only enter a B standard athlete if you have no A standard athlete.

Dodge · 22-05-2012 2:23pm

thirtyfoot wrote: »

Classic. The chips on the shoulders of country folk in athletics always amuses me, the 'them in Dublin' mentality. I'm from the country by the way. The one person who lost out is a Dub!

To be fair though, its not limited to Athletics.

Best part is the Donegal woman was selected over the Dub, making the whole 'conspiracy' a complete fantasy

T runner · 22-05-2012 2:49pm

thirtyfoot wrote: »

Classic. The chips on the shoulders of country folk in athletics always amuses me, the 'them in Dublin' mentality. I'm from the country by the way. The one person who lost out is a Dub!

Dont give out about a silly bigotted comment with an equally silly and bigotted comment. I dont care where youre from BTW.

thirtyfoot · 22-05-2012 3:01pm

T runner wrote: »

Dont give out about a silly bigotted comment with an equally silly and bigotted comment. I dont care where youre from BTW.

Your comment equally amuses me. The original reason why 'them in Dublin' amuses me is because most of those that its directed at are not 'in' Dublin but in fact country folk and is similar to you saying my comment is bigotted towards country people when in fact I am a country person. Can you be bigotted towards yourself? Is such self-loathing a country thing? Is that what makes country people better at sports than Dubs? As a country person should I even be admitting such sporting self confidence?

T runner · 22-05-2012 3:25pm

thirtyfoot wrote: »

Your comment equally amuses me. The original reason why 'them in Dublin' amuses me is because most of those that its directed at are not 'in' Dublin but in fact country folk and is similar to you saying my comment is bigotted towards country people when in fact I am a country person. Can you be bigotted towards yourself? Is such self-loathing a country thing? Is that what makes country people better at sports than Dubs? As a country person should I even be admitting such sporting self confidence?

An argument stands on its own two legs.

If you were to say "Irish people are stupid, dirty, pigs" this is a bigotted comment and it amtters not a jot if youre British, French Swahili or Irish.
Do you understand why this is the case?

So if you make a disparaging comment about all people involved in Irish athletics who are not from Dublin by saying: "The chips on the shoulders of country folk in athletics always amuses me". You are in fact making a bigotted comment. Likewise, you assign the phrase "them in Dublin" to country people to imply backwardness and ignorance.

You are in fact replying to a silly bigotted comment with another silly bigotted comment. As ive said before and explained above it it matters not a jot where you claim you come from.

Wouldnt it be amusing if yourself and the tweedle dee were from the same parish?

Does this comment "equally amuse you"?

NiallG4 · 22-05-2012 4:39pm

shels4ever wrote: »

class act.

Maria Mc Cambridge has accepted the decision and has decided not to appeal so please don't turn this into a petty "them and us squabble". We can only presume whoever made the call did it in the best interests of Irish Athletics. Lets all get behind the 3 selected girls who are running for Ireland and not for Dublin or Donegal. Come on Ireland.

thirtyfoot · 22-05-2012 5:02pm

People who use the

T runner wrote: »

"them in Dublin"

usually are filled with

T runner wrote: »

backwardness and ignorance.

, thats the exact point I am making.

T runner wrote: »

If you were to say "Irish people are stupid, dirty, pigs" this is a bigotted comment and it amtters not a jot if youre British, French Swahili or Irish.
Do you understand why this is the case?

So if you make a disparaging comment about all people involved in Irish athletics who are not from Dublin by saying: "The chips on the shoulders of country folk in athletics always amuses me".

Ok, ok, I should have added in 'some country folk'

T runner wrote: »

Wouldnt it be amusing if yourself and the tweedle dee were from the same parish?

Does this comment "equally amuse you"?

Yes, very much because I base much of my bigotted opinion on this topic on someone who is not only from the same parish but the same address within the parish. In fact, when it suits me, I have that very same chip.

Back to topic. Well done to the three selected.

T runner · 22-05-2012 8:04pm

thirtyfoot wrote: »

People who use the......

you are the only one who used that term if im not mistaken,

usually are filled with.......

Yes indeed. Moving on.

myflipflops · 22-05-2012 10:23pm

ultrapercy wrote: »

Look there was about 1 minute covering the 4 athletes so it was a tough decision. The 3 fastest times were picked, as a tiebreaker fastest time was the only method they could use without being accused of bias.Naturaly if you personaly know or favour one of the 4 over the others youl feel agrived if that athlete isnt picked but the selectors used the most transparent method of selection open to them.

I think you missd my sarcasm.

I don't think there was any bias whatsoever based on what parts of Ireland people are from or what clubs they represent.

Just pointing out the ridiculousness of suggesting there was bias against Maria because she is 'from' Donegal considering Patsy McGonagle is a proud Donegal man himself.

ultrapercy · 22-05-2012 10:52pm

myflipflops wrote: »

I think you missd my sarcasm.

I don't think there was any bias whatsoever based on what parts of Ireland people are from or what clubs they represent.

Just pointing out the ridiculousness of suggesting there was bias against Maria because she is 'from' Donegal considering Patsy McGonagle is a proud Donegal man himself.

Sorry about that I didnt realy mean to quote you as such rather to make a general point.Maria is from Dublin and Jennings from Donegal to clarify/confuse things.

Pisco Sour · 23-05-2012 4:07am

Not sure if this got posted but here's an article by I'OR before the decision was announced. He certainly indicates that Maria should have been a definite for selection:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0519/1224316359617.html

Irish Olympic Marathon selection put on long finger

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