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price of direct labour 2012

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  • 07-04-2012 6:52pm
    #1
    rurz23
    Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭


    hi,
    i was thinking of building a new house in westmeath around 3000 sq foot...i was quoted unofficially of €65 a square foot for 2012...and this would be to a good finish - basic plastered rooms, kitchen etc.
    What do people think of these prices-is this realistic or not?


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    #2
    Duffers11
    Registered Users Posts: 73 ✭✭Duffers11


    rurz23 wrote: »
    hi,
    i was thinking of building a new house in westmeath around 3000 sq foot...i was quoted unofficially of €65 a square foot for 2012...and this would be to a good finish - basic plastered rooms, kitchen etc.
    What do people think of these prices-is this realistic or not?

    Commencing a new build myself at the end of the month. It's really going to depend on how much you will be doing yourself and how much help you can get with it. We have a lot of ppl on board giving a dig out but if we had to pay builders don't think we would achieve €65 per sq fr. Because I'm budgeting at the mo, there's a hell of a lot expense that ur not prepared for until the time comes. Every project is different! Best of luck with it! :)


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    #3
    New build in sight
    Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭New build in sight


    rurz23 wrote: »
    hi,
    i was thinking of building a new house in westmeath around 3000 sq foot...i was quoted unofficially of €65 a square foot for 2012...and this would be to a good finish - basic plastered rooms, kitchen etc.
    What do people think of these prices-is this realistic or not?

    Hi, we too were quoted approximately €67 per sqf but this didnt include stairs or kitchen.

    We are building in the midlands and a house about 2700sqf.

    We got an engineer to quote for us so his fee on top of this would be about another 10k! So we think thats a waste and weve decided to go direct route too. So it would be great to see others on here providing support etc.


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    #4
    BryanF
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,140 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    We got an engineer to quote for us so his fee on top of this would be about another 10k! So we think thats a waste and weve decided to go direct route too. So it would be great to see others on here providing support etc.
    Hi can you tell us a bit more about what's included/excluded for this figure?
    Also what service was offered by the eng? Why you think its a waste? And how you intend to progress now? What stage are you at and have you completed a ber prov assessment ?


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    #5
    New build in sight
    Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭New build in sight


    Hi,

    As far as I am aware it includes everything except as mentioned the kitchen and stairs. I know it is going to be rated A3. We also have an akward window that we need to Keylite to make for us which would of increased the budget. It is approx 2700sqf.
    It is a dormer so perhaps this makes it slightly less, i am not sure. We are going with UFH downstairs and rad's upstairs OFCH. Concrete floors upstairs. Double glazed windows. (I am hoping to get sliding sash windows even to the front of the house) but the windows quoted were for standard ones from a company in the midlands. Not sure if i am allowed say names etc on here.
    Our engineer will just do the work of an engineer and not a project manager which is what we initially thought we would use him for but we just couldnt justify the additional cost when we were sourcing costings ourselves anyway. He is charging us standard engineer fee's rather than full project management fee's. We are working out our budget at the moment and my partner did post on another trhead about project planning etc. so we are investigating reducing this cost even further by proper planning.
    Someone advised us to explore quantity surveryor options but we are so close to starting that we are not sure if we see value in that now. Trying to keep costs down is our priority right now.
    I am not sure what other info you need right now, if you have more specific questions i will try and answer. I do hope i helped.


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    #6
    New build in sight
    Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭New build in sight


    This thread may help others in determining costs etc http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=75706015


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    #7
    New build in sight
    Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭New build in sight


    We received a contractor quote today for 2700sqf at......wait for it..... €240,000. No Kitchens or sanitry ware. Red deal stairs.
    It kind of confirms going direct does save you money.


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    #8
    YMCA
    Registered Users Posts: 27 ✭YMCA


    Hi all,

    I am currently in the initial stage of my ground work on a direct labour build. I got a set of drawings for the planning stage and my architect was looking for crazy money for a set of detailed construction drawings so I have thus decided to not use a set for my build and work off the planning set

    I thus need a new man to access my mortgage at different stages of the build and was just wondering what is a competitive quote for this activity??? I am building in the midlands.

    Thanks inadvance.


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    #9
    New build in sight
    Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭New build in sight


    YMCA wrote: »
    Hi all,

    I am currently in the initial stage of my ground work on a direct labour build. I got a set of drawings for the planning stage and my architect was looking for crazy money for a set of detailed construction drawings so I have thus decided to not use a set for my build and work off the planning set

    I thus need a new man to access my mortgage at different stages of the build and was just wondering what is a competitive quote for this activity??? I am building in the midlands.

    Thanks inadvance.

    Hi, we have been quoted anywhere between €1200 and €1800 for engineers services only not including project managment. I think what the engineers we spoke with quoted somewhere around 5 site visits and signing off work for draw downs. I cant be 100% certain, but im sure my partner can confirm later when he logs in here.
    Is that what you mean?


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    #10
    YMCA
    Registered Users Posts: 27 ✭YMCA


    New build in sight wrote: »
    Hi, we have been quoted anywhere between €1200 and €1800 for engineers services only not including project managment. I think what the engineers we spoke with quoted somewhere around 5 site visits and signing off work for draw downs. I cant be 100% certain, but im sure my partner can confirm later when he logs in here.
    Is that what you mean?

    Hiya,

    Yeah that is all. Just the 5/6 visits to sign off. I got an initial quote of €1500 today. Thought it was a bit pricey.

    I'm not looking for a project manager or anything else. Just his signature really!!!!


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    #11
    New build in sight
    Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭New build in sight


    YMCA wrote: »
    Hiya,

    Yeah that is all. Just the 5/6 visits to sign off. I got an initial quote of €1500 today. Thought it was a bit pricey.

    I'm not looking for a project manager or anything else. Just his signature really!!!!


    Totally agree with you, I am surprised by the quotes we get for such limited work. Even considering transport costs/ travel etc. I think 5/6 visits at €1500 is shocking! The site visits would probably take no more than an hour and a signiature, thats €300 per hour! Wow, now multiply that by 40 hours per week and you have one hell of a money spinner! Why didnt my parents make me be an engineer!


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    #12
    YMCA
    Registered Users Posts: 27 ✭YMCA


    New build in sight wrote: »
    Totally agree with you, I am surprised by the quotes we get for such limited work. Even considering transport costs/ travel etc. I think 5/6 visits at €1500 is shocking! The site visits would probably take no more than an hour and a signiature, thats €300 per hour! Wow, now multiply that by 40 hours per week and you have one hell of a money spinner! Why didnt my parents make me be an engineer!

    Because you would now be unemployed and overcharging people to make up the shortfall!!!


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    #13
    muffler
    Registered Users Posts: 45,924 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    So none of you will mind if the engineer doesn't give you relevant certs at the end of the job and he can cancel his PI insurance also just to make the job more profitable?

    Sure it's only his signature that's required.

    I wish you both well in your efforts.


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    #14
    rurz23
    Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭rurz23


    so has anyone gotten a quote anywhere around this price?


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    #15
    wirehairmax
    Registered Users Posts: 678 ✭✭✭wirehairmax


    New build in sight wrote: »
    Totally agree with you, I am surprised by the quotes we get for such limited work. Even considering transport costs/ travel etc. I think 5/6 visits at €1500 is shocking! The site visits would probably take no more than an hour and a signiature, thats €300 per hour! Wow, now multiply that by 40 hours per week and you have one hell of a money spinner! Why didnt my parents make me be an engineer!
    Just goes to show how little you know about the actual process involved in preparing and issuing certificates. There's at least half a days work involved with each interim certificate. And then the final certificate of compliance which must be worded correctly to satisfy all solicitors involved. I gave up doing them as they were actually not worth the hassle and the constant risk to my PI policy by uneducated know-it-all self-builders. 5-6 visits is never enough visits to properly supervise the construction of a modern dwelling. I got fed up of only receiving a panicky phone call from a client looking for another certificate because the money was running out. I always found that too much can happen in a short space of time on a building site and too much gets covered up before the supervising engineer gets to pass the work and take photo records.
    Usually the Engineer is called a b****** because he/she wont sign off on shoddy work or a direct labour build not built in compliance with either Planning or Building Regulations. As is nearly always the case the self-builder knows more than the Engineer. Either that or a relative/neighbour/lad in the pub is bending the ear of the self-builder and offering advice usually ending with a ''sher it'll be alright'' and ''dont pay him until he signs off on it''.
    I wont go into the anatomy of running a business, suffice to say €1500 doesnt go far when all overheads, expenses, taxes and wages are accounted for. Thats a debate for another day but I would be curious to know the occupations of some of the posters here.


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    #16
    New build in sight
    Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭New build in sight


    I am not going to rise to anyone lecturing me in on what an engineer does. And i fail to see the need for the use of swear words on an open form, I am surprised the mods are thanking you for the comments, i found it unhelpful. The reason I am on this forum is to get more information because as you point out i am " un uneducated know it all self builder" hence why i am on here. We're all here to help eachother, you could of got your point across without insult.


    If you read my post with a lighter heart you wouldnt of taken offence. I am very friendly with several engineers in several different verticals and they all explain very clearly to me the work involved in issuing certs etc. You do not need to patronise me.

    Now i would prefer to go back to enjoying this thread for what it is, gaining information and sharing information not throwing insults thank you.


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    #17
    New build in sight
    Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭New build in sight


    rurz23 wrote: »
    so has anyone gotten a quote anywhere around this price?


    Sorry RURZ23 it seems we have hijacked your thread :) yes we did get a similar quote, I could PM you details if you like. The quote came from an engineer based in Westmeath actually so if you want his details let me know and i can PM you, in fact there were 2 that gave us similar quotes based in Westmeath.


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    #18
    muffler
    Registered Users Posts: 45,924 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    I think I need to point out a couple of things here. First of all you didnt complain at all about the price you were quoted
    New build in sight wrote: »
    Hi, we have been quoted anywhere between €1200 and €1800 for engineers services

    but then another poster thinks €1500 is pricy and its only a signature he needs
    YMCA wrote: »
    quote of €1500...... a bit pricey.......just his signature really!!!!

    So all of a sudden you now think that you are possibly being ripped off by posting this masterpiece
    New build in sight wrote: »
    Totally agree with you, I am surprised by the quotes we get for such limited work. Even considering transport costs/ travel etc. I think 5/6 visits at €1500 is shocking! The site visits would probably take no more than an hour and a signiature, thats €300 per hour! Wow, now multiply that by 40 hours per week and you have one hell of a money spinner! Why didnt my parents make me be an engineer!


    So then you get a rebuttal (and just for the record I seen nothing wrong with wirehairmax's post) so now your engineers are all the best thing since sliced pan
    New build in sight wrote: »
    I am very friendly with several engineers in several different verticals and they all explain very clearly to me the work involved in issuing certs etc.

    On reflection now can you see the contradictions in those posts?

    Look, you are spot on when you say that this is a discussion forum and if you say something that someone else doesnt agree with then expect an alternative reply. Some replies are more subtle than others but unless it gets abusive or the content breaches the forum charter then we (mods) have no need to deal with the posts. In the unlikely event you feel that any post or part thereof is not acceptable then just report it (little red and white triangle below the user name) and we can have a look. If anything ever bothers you then you may also PM any of the forum mods.

    I hope you will be using the forums to their maximum over the period of your build and people can give you their thoughts and opinions but dont always expect everyone to be in agreement.

    Finally, at the time of typing anyhow, just one person thanked the post you alluded to and that was me. That was done in my capacity as an ordinary joe soap and not as a mod :)


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    #19
    New build in sight
    Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭New build in sight


    muffler wrote: »
    I think I need to point out a couple of things here. First of all you didnt complain at all about the price you were quoted

    but then another poster thinks €1500 is pricy and its only a signature he needs

    So all of a sudden you now think that you are possibly being ripped off by posting this masterpiece


    So then you get a rebuttal (and just for the record I seen nothing wrong with wirehairmax's post) so now your engineers are all the best thing since sliced pan

    On reflection now can you see the contradictions in those posts?

    Look, you are spot on when you say that this is a discussion forum and if you say something that someone else doesnt agree with then expect an alternative reply. Some replies are more subtle than others but unless it gets abusive or the content breaches the forum charter then we (mods) have no need to deal with the posts. In the unlikely event you feel that any post or part thereof is not acceptable then just report it (little red and white triangle below the user name) and we can have a look. If anything ever bothers you then you may also PM any of the forum mods.

    I hope you will be using the forums to their maximum over the period of your build and people can give you their thoughts and opinions but dont always expect everyone to be in agreement.

    Finally, at the time of typing anyhow, just one person thanked the post you alluded to and that was me. That was done in my capacity as an ordinary joe soap and not as a mod :)

    Well I guess I was giving my opinion then, on what I feel is an overpaid service in my 'average joe soap' opinion and "uneducated know it all self builder" opinion. I have no doubt if you all knew what I get paid for what I do for a living you would too have an uneducated opinion on that .... food for thought.
    I never once eluded to the fact I was being ripped off, I was agreeing with the other poster that €1500 is pricey but sadly we all have to pay it whether we think its pricey or not. Thats the last I want to say on the matter I never thought I would find myself in an online spat like this.


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    #20
    Nryan82
    Registered Users Posts: 42 ✭Nryan82


    Hi all, I've got a few quotes myself for an engineer...first was 2,000...another 1,500 and the last one 1,000....I'm wondering why one would charge a thousand more than another for the same build?..is it just there own fee or does it depend on how strict they are on builders work?..may sound like a stupid reason but I'm curious to know.:D...1,000 quote is 5/6 visits...is this sufficient visits can anyone tell me?
    Thanks in advance.:D


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    #21
    fealeranger
    Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭fealeranger


    If I were in your shoes I would check what kind of history the engineer has. Check for previous builds and referals from his previous clients. Check that the sum total is all included(VAT included). Ask how much extra visits will cost if they are required. I don't know if 5-6 visits will cover a build any more as the bank are always looking for evidence in the form of pictures lately from dealing with my own build. We are at floor level and the engineer has been on site 4 times already. The cheapest guy is not always the best choice and a good history rating will help make the decision for you. You only get to build the house once so try to do it right;):).


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    #22
    Nryan82
    Registered Users Posts: 42 ✭Nryan82


    Ya that's what I'll do...that's what I was thinking too...the cheapest is not always the best and I would definitely prefer to pay the extra for the better person. No the thousand euro doesn't include the 23% vat, so I'd have to add that on too. Thanks for the advice..;)


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    #23
    auditions
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭auditions


    Hi new build in sight, could you pm me the details of the engineers in Westmeath.I'm in the preliminary stages of a newbuild in mullingar. 10k doesn't seem like a bad investment if there's a reputable engineer/pm overseeing a new build. Thanks


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    #24
    muffler
    Registered Users Posts: 45,924 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    auditions wrote: »
    10k doesn't seem like a bad investment if there's a reputable engineer/pm overseeing a new build.
    :eek:


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    #25
    Captain Bligh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21 ✭Captain Bligh


    Nryan82 wrote: »
    Hi all, I've got a few quotes myself for an engineer...first was 2,000...another 1,500 and the last one 1,000....I'm wondering why one would charge a thousand more than another for the same build?..is it just there own fee or does it depend on how strict they are on builders work?..may sound like a stupid reason but I'm curious to know.:D...1,000 quote is 5/6 visits...is this sufficient visits can anyone tell me?
    Thanks in advance.:D


    are you building direct labour. if so this is why. ie the fiurst guy knows the hand holding that awaits him the third guy is a virgin to the scene.

    good luck


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    #26
    Captain Bligh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21 ✭Captain Bligh


    YMCA wrote: »
    Hiya,

    Yeah that is all. Just the 5/6 visits to sign off. I got an initial quote of €1500 today. Thought it was a bit pricey.

    I'm not looking for a project manager or anything else. Just his signature really!!!!

    and 6 years tort on his insurance for you guys to play DIY destroy it yourself

    wait till the kitchen man comes to shake you by the ankles for over priced plastic coated MDF/chipboard


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    #27
    Captain Bligh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21 ✭Captain Bligh


    New build in sight wrote: »
    We received a contractor quote today for 2700sqf at......wait for it..... €240,000. No Kitchens or sanitry ware. Red deal stairs.
    It kind of confirms going direct does save you money.

    so yeah maybe this guy is a thief.

    did you get a chartered PQS to issue your project for tender. Not an architect, not an Engineer.

    probably not, like the rest of the "self build save a fortune.......... opps didnt know how epensive stuff was. But now i caught myself.......so ill tell everybody i saved a fortune" gang!!!!!

    show me a direct labour builder who saved a fortune and ill show you a liar.(IN THE CURRENT CLIMATE) You got to factor it all in;

    Cost of rent while build runs over!
    cost of mortgage while build runs over
    cost of "project manager"
    your time. if you stayed at your place of work on OT would you earn more, or even take a job at the golden arches flipping burgers!!:)
    Fuel to-ing and fro-ing the project hand holding the subbies
    fuel as above getting materials.
    hire/buy scaffold
    insurance
    Health and safety. you are now a contractor with legal obligations.
    scaffold cert to cover your bollocks
    these guys will claim. dont cod yourself. then you are in the sh1t if the above requirments arent in order
    lifting/loadall hire
    and every single screw and nail
    hire of tools and equipment
    power generation
    fuel for duration for same.
    ESB when connected to replace the above

    no wonder the country is full of massive self builds, where we "finish the kitchen/dining and bedroom" mansions:eek:

    simply taking the most expensive quote and deducting it, from a boards posters costings dosen't equal your saving.

    and before anybody climbs aboard the self build horse, i am qualified by examination and years of experience, am charted and a fellow of the professional body to which i am a member........ are you.

    oh and one final thing, when your subbie quotes you a price this is labour only. you now buy the materials. and when its all over and you have an absolute fortune in hand who then stand over the finished article.

    a funny story before i go. very very true
    guy in my office built direct labour. was saving a good deal. absolute peak of boom. has to said
    Under floor heating in(tested!!!!! remember this bit)
    floor in (Concrete)
    built house.
    heat on and off
    finishes done. savinigs spent here!!!
    hardwood floor down.
    you guessed it. LEAK LEAK LEAK
    Floor F**Ked
    Ring plumber. "no good mate i had it tested you witnessed must have been the concrete man"
    Ring concrete man "no we use plastic shovels couldnt have been me must have been fllor fitter with a nail"
    Dido to floor man "na sure that floor is glued down"
    all paid. even if he had money it wouldnt cover the SH1T
    nothing for it,...........................you know what came next. move back oput etc etc
    END result noone to stand over the finished product with 12 months DLP or even 6 year tort.

    Best of luck, and the Self builder was a suitably qualified person but you cant be there for every spoon of concrete!!!


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    #28
    Nryan82
    Registered Users Posts: 42 ✭Nryan82


    Captain Bligh wrote: »
    are you building direct labour. if so this is why. ie the fiurst guy knows the hand holding that awaits him the third guy is a virgin to the scene.

    good luck


    Hi captain Bligh, no im not going direct labour. Contracting the build. ;)


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    #29
    Captain Bligh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21 ✭Captain Bligh


    Nryan82 wrote: »
    Hi captain Bligh, no im not going direct labour. Contracting the build. ;)


    well then

    if the builder is well established, insured, tax cleared, homebonded(means feck all but ticks a box) then id go the cheaper option

    nothing to be gaied by fecking away money for 6 certs.

    get a little contract/email outlining terms of employment

    and his/her hourly rate/mileage rate and cost per visit.

    im saying you might want him to call an extra time and thus his price is fixed or perhaps stay a while on site to go through stuff.

    if your down south i can forward you "a few good men":D

    best of luck


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    #30
    Nryan82
    Registered Users Posts: 42 ✭Nryan82


    Yes my builder defo ticks all them boxes and he has an excellent reputation. Yes I'll make an appointment to see the engineer and have a talk with him about what you've said to ask etc..thanks.:)

    Ya send me a few contacts regardless...no harm in checkin them all out. Thanks again.


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    #31
    muffler
    Registered Users Posts: 45,924 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    Nryan82 wrote: »
    Ya send me a few contacts regardless...no harm in checkin them all out. Thanks again.
    Just to advise that he has closed his account so dont expect a PM :)


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