Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy [ SPOILERS FROM POST 174 ONWARD

Phony Scott · 18-09-2011 11:25pm

Watched it today and enjoyed the performances, atmosphere and the way the film was shot, but, boy was the very definition of a 'cerebral film'. I got the gist of what was going on, for the most part, but I won't even begin to attempt to explain it to anyone for fear of embarrassment!

nix · 19-09-2011 12:19am

Thee most boring film i have ever watched in my entire life, more entertainment and suspense in a game of guess who..

Good acting? my arse, none of the characters had any personality, all boring dry ****es, i wanted it to end half way through..

PhilTorres · 19-09-2011 12:37am

Enjoyed it myself was waiting for the big finale but never really came but still glad I went to see it

johnny_ultimate · 19-09-2011 12:46am

nix wrote: »

Thee most boring film i have ever watched in my entire life

The most boring? There's an awful lot of very, very dull films you need to see then, if only to lower your standards considerably :pac:

nix · 19-09-2011 10:58am

Please no! my eyes would be in danger of my owns hands trying to claw at them

Hyzepher · 19-09-2011 5:11pm

Went into this with great expectations but I was unfortunately disappointed by the whole thing. The acting was very good but all this did was rescue the movie from downright boredom.

I'm a fan of simple plots and when you look back at this movie the underlying plot was very simple and straight forward. Unfortunately nothing happened of note and there wasn't enough tension or character depth to keep things progressing.

In fact scenes where we might have gotten emotionally involved were played out almost matter of fact - Controls death and the death of Irina (the girl who Tarr wanted Smiley to save).

Just a bit of a disappointment.

tunguska · 19-09-2011 6:21pm

Saw it friday and I thought it was the cinematic equivalent of a Rolls Royce, Beautifully made. I'll be honest and admit I'll have to see it 5 or more times before I even begin to get everything that was going on. But I do know I liked it, magnificent film.

krudler · 19-09-2011 8:23pm

Hyzepher wrote: »

Went into this with great expectations but I was unfortunately disappointed by the whole thing. The acting was very good but all this did was rescue the movie from downright boredom.

I'm a fan of simple plots and when you look back at this movie the underlying plot was very simple and straight forward. Unfortunately nothing happened of note and there wasn't enough tension or character depth to keep things progressing.
In fact scenes where we might have gotten emotionally involved were played out almost matter of fact - Controls death and the death of Irina (the girl who Tarr wanted Smiley to save).

Just a bit of a disappointment.

spoilers FFS!

WHIP IT! · 19-09-2011 9:23pm

Saw this today and all I must say I was relieved to read Jonny and Podge's posts regarding

Control's death and the weird way they handled it (or didn't handle it, as the case may be)

because I was as confused as they were at the time. IT was a fairly significant piece of the story and they gave it all of one second on screen -

not to mention it wasn't immediately obvious exactly who Control was!

Also, the person who queried if

it was being implied that Firth and Strong's character's were 'more than good friends'

- yes, I think it was but I can't really see how this added anything to the plot at that stage - I think they may have considered this a dramatic twist... it was anything but dramatic.

Not a bad film. Certainly not a great film. Confused plot - all a bit underwhelming in the end. Killed two hours for me before work today though so, thumbs up I s'pose!

johnny_ultimate · 19-09-2011 9:27pm

Just a heads up to be careful of spoilers. We'll put a general spoiler tag in the title in a few days, but for the time being there will still be quite a few people looking for opinions rather than in-depth discussion on the film (and unfortunately this is the type of film that's very hard to discuss without spoilers)! The grey box may be a pain, but it does serve a function

Sad Professor · 19-09-2011 10:13pm

I absolutely loved it. I was totally engrossed from start to finish. It was everything I hoped it would be and more. It perfectly encapsulates the Cold War. The atmosphere, the suspense, the paranoia. The feeling that something big is about to happen. But, of course, like the Cold War itself, it never really happens.

I loved the fact that you never see Smiley’s adversary. Alfredson could so easily have cut to a flashback in the scene in which Smiley recalls his meeting with him. It says so much about him as a director that he trusted Oldman to play it by himself. It's so much more effective that you never see him.

Hopefully this will get some recognition come Oscar time and not just for the performances. It has the best sound design of any film I’ve seen this year. And Alfredson’s direction is magnificent. Every scene has the same kind of richness and subtly that he brought to Let the Right One In. Definitely in contention for my favourite film of the year.

DrumSteve · 20-09-2011 2:41pm

I really wanted to like this but by the end, I didn't actually care what happened.

Also :

What happened to Ciaran Hinds character? We're they all in on it? If so why weren't they all in prison at the end?

Fago123 · 20-09-2011 2:58pm

Sad Professor wrote: »

I absolutely loved it. I was totally engrossed from start to finish. It was everything I hoped it would be and more. It perfectly encapsulates the Cold War. The atmosphere, the suspense, the paranoia. The feeling that something big is about to happen. But, of course, like the Cold War itself, it never really happens.

I loved the fact that you never see Smiley’s adversary. Alfredson could so easily have cut to a flashback in the scene in which Smiley recalls his meeting with him. It says so much about him as a director that he trusted Oldman to play it by himself. It's so much more effective that you never see him.

Hopefully this will get some recognition come Oscar time and not just for the performances. It has the best sound design of any film I’ve seen this year. And Alfredson’s direction is magnificent. Every scene has the same kind of richness and subtly that he brought to Let the Right One In. Definitely in contention for my favourite film of the year.

Couldn’t agree with you more.

Without doubt my favourite film of the year. Absolutely superb from start to finish. Oldman was magnificent, particularly the scene that you mentioned.

Each member of the supporting cast brought their A game also, I was very impressed by Mark Strong’s performance despite not seeing him singled out in any reviews/comments I’ve read.

The look and feel and atmosphere that Alfredson’s created grabbed me from the first minute right till the last.

Brilliant all round basically, can’t wait to see it again.

I hadn’t read the book or seen the original TV series, I don’t know if that’s influenced anybody else’s experience of the film.

stealinhorses · 20-09-2011 7:58pm

What an effin' movie. Literally dripping with tension. A stylish slow-burner, much like Alfredson's last film. The camera work itself told more of the story than the actors' lines. The performances were terrific - with Oldman, Hardy and Strong all at an outstanding level.

I don't understand people who complained about the film being "boring". Maybe if they took a bit of an interest in it before going to the cinema, they would have known to expect a slow-paced, dialogue-heavy and somewhat complex movie.

Even though it's the film of the year for me, I do have a couple of issues with it.

The direction was excellent for the most part, but I feel like some things could have been handled better. I only caught on 3/4 of the way in that Mark Strong's character actually wasn't killed in Budapest, and I thought for half of the film that 'Control' was his pseudonym! I do remember seeing the real Control die in the hospital bed, but it didn't register with me as something important at all. The varied chronology made it difficult to follow at times, but I guess it is a book adaptation.

Other than that, I would highly recommend it!

Also, what was up with the (In Russian), (In Hungarian) bits before the subtitles. Seemed weird :P.

Sad Professor · 20-09-2011 8:10pm

stealinhorses wrote: »

I only caught on 3/4 of the way in that Mark Strong's character actually wasn't killed in Budapest, and I thought for half of the film that 'Control' was his pseudonym! I do remember seeing the real Control die in the hospital bed, but it didn't register with me as something important at all.

It was initially suggested that

Mark Strong did die in Budapest. It was at least half way through the film before it was revealed that he survived. Although it was a bit later before we actually saw him again. Even if you didn't know the character's name, I still think it was pretty clear from the dialogue who they were talking about.

The Black Oil · 20-09-2011 8:41pm

I enjoyed it, for the most part. I think it started well, dipped a bit until Tom Hardy came into the picture and when

the stuff with the briefcase/file checking/borrowing) started

then it picked up. Suitably paranoid (in the spy sense, not a clinical one, I guess) from the start and lonely, too. I don't know much about directing, but Alfredson seems like one of those guys who knows how to place the actors in the story and then lets them get on with.

Things I liked: how the time was evoked, not OTT, no name checking nonsense like 'we are MI6/SIS'!, the main office and the portacabin thing wherein the more senior blokes had meetings,

Goldman basically telling the minister to cop on and I liked that Mark Strong returned after the incident in Hungary. Also appreciated how they didn't hint at the mole's identity and hang it clearly in front of you as other films might, though after a while I did wonder about Firth.

As for the ending, hmmm,

maybe it was a little too clean re how Mark Strong slips in to take out Firth.

dan1895 · 20-09-2011 11:13pm

This was a film I had high expectations for but was ultimately disappointed. It didn't keep me interested at all and I just stopped caring. Having said that, the acting was brilliant.

stealinhorses · 21-09-2011 1:35am

Sad Professor wrote: »

Even if you didn't know the character's name, I still think it was pretty clear from the dialogue who they were talking about.

My problem with that was, my crazy brain somehow connected the scene where Oldman and Cumberbatch go to Control's apartment, with the "death" of Mark Strong. As if they came in to look for clues on his death after the incident in Budapest. I only copped on to the fact that it was John Hurt's place when they showed it again and I recognised the white window panes. And the apartment was in the first of the film, as well :rolleyes:.

My problem is also that I'm not a native English speaker and have always had problems with the English accent. I've gotten so used to watching DVDs with subtitles on, that I found it hard to follow the action in this one on the silver screen. Reading the book beforehand probably would have helped.

longhalloween · 21-09-2011 1:50am

Saw it this evening. I did like the film though at the start it was very unclear which actor was playing which role. Also the flashback scenes were very ambiguous and sometimes not clear.

The plot itself is very simple but the narrative is overly complicated in the first half hour, and as one poster mentioned, a few people fell asleep during the film.

It's good and different, maybe not 5 stars but it'll be much better when I watch it a second time.

Maybe if they took a bit of an interest in it before going to the cinema, they would have known to expect a slow-paced, dialogue-heavy and somewhat complex movie.

I didn't know anything about it before I went in. I didn't think it was dialogue heavy either. The first 20 minutes is noticeably sparse on dialogue and I had the feeling that I somehow missed an important plot point.

johnny_ultimate · 21-09-2011 2:20am

Sad Professor wrote:

It was initially suggested that
Mark Strong did die in Budapest. It was at least half way through the film before it was revealed that he survived. Although it was a bit later before we actually saw him again. Even if you didn't know the character's name, I still think it was pretty clear from the dialogue who they were talking about.

I think there's enough of us in this thread who have experienced Control based confusion to suggest it was one thing they could have handled better! It just stood out as the only confusingly delivered aspect of what was an otherwise surprisingly accessible film.

Degag · 21-09-2011 4:23pm

Don't seem to be showing it anywhere in Kerry. (Same with The Inbetweeners:rolleyes:) Would anyone who has read the book recommend getting it?

Bloody Nipples · 22-09-2011 11:43pm

I normally assume a film will at least attempt to elicit some kind of emotional response from the audience but this made the big reveal with a serious lack of buildup. It was about as exciting and tension-laden as being told what's for dinner.
While I appreciated the great acting, I thought the story overall was a bit of a flop.

Buceph · 23-09-2011 2:12am

Sad Professor wrote: »

I absolutely loved it. I was totally engrossed from start to finish. It was everything I hoped it would be and more. It perfectly encapsulates the Cold War. The atmosphere, the suspense, the paranoia. The feeling that something big is about to happen. But, of course, like the Cold War itself, it never really happens.

Best description of the film so far. And I agree with you on it being thoroughly engrossing. I'm a heavy smoker and I generally judge a film on how many cigarette breaks I go for. Captain America was about four smokes, The Guard which was short was two smokes, Agent Cody Banks was one cinema break from my constant smoking. This at two hours and being interested in the film, I had pegged for a three smoker, but I actually only had two and rushed them at that, not finishing them. You're absolutely right that it was like a little Cold War in its own right. To the guys in the spy business it really did seem like a game, an important one, with lives on the line, but really a bit of old boy backslapping and politicking with plenty of whiskeys to keep them going.

Gary Oldman has to be in line for at least an Oscar nomination with this. He was so understated, showing so little emotion but he told an amazing amount of information from that understated performance. While Oldman gave a classic performance, I think it'll be Cumberbatch and Hardy who make the most of this. Both of them were given far more space to act in and did an amazing job. And they were the real heart of the film, people for which the tension and risk was real and personal. I wouldn't be surprised if one of them picked up a Best Supporting nomination.

I think the biggest problem with the film was the clash between the story and the direction. The look and presentation of the film was big, epic, lots of hanging, silent shots. This was epitomised by the opening scenes, where not a lot happened for about five minutes, just establishing shots of what was going on. If this film had been made forty or fifty years ago they would have skipped that and placed you straight into the story, because really the story is quite simple and character driven. And I think if they served that quicker it wouldn't have set you up for thinking there's going to be a twisting intricate story. While there was a lot of foreshadowing and direction towards the end and the interplay of the characters, the story is really plain and not what I would expect when thinking of the big thrillers of nowadays. Although this complaint is really about the opening scenes (and the first half of the film at most) I think it really had you set up to think there was more going on than there actually was.

Absolutely, there was a huge amount of nuance packed into the film, and for that I think it will stand up to repeated viewings, where you gain something new each time you see it. I certainly missed a fair bit when I went for my two cigarette breaks, but I was never lost in the plot. Because the plot is very immediate: There's a mole in the intelligence community, find out who he or they are. And everything progresses from that simple story, with a couple of side shows and a lot of the problems of simply proving that someone is actually a bad guy beyond any doubt.

I really enjoyed it, all in all. I will watch it again when it's released on DVD and I'll probably watch it in HD. For the people falling asleep, I can understand why, it's in no way a heartracing film (although a few scenes are tense.) It is simply a good story of a tough situation acted and filmed immacutely.

Special mention to Kathy Burke. A great performance from an actress who should be the top of any directors list when they're looking for a serious performance of a real woman.

humanji · 23-09-2011 8:55am

Finally got to see this last night. I thought it was excellent, but not without it's problems. I'm a fan of the TV show and I'm sure that the fact that I had seen that made it a hell of a lot easier to know what was going on.

One thing that did confuse me is in the film, with regards Mark Strong's character,

how did Smiley know he was at the school. It's explained in the TV series, but I don't know if I just missed where it was stated in the film, or if it wasn't mentioned at all and just happened?

I wasn't too keen on how Smiley's relationship with his wife was potrayed. In the film

she had an affair, nobody knows about it, they reconcile at the end

, but the tv series/book made it much more interesting

where she has many affairs and everybody knows about it, to the point that they tease Smiley about it if he's annoying them; "How's Ann? Oh is she away again?"

. I'd have thought it easier to use the original version as it'd only need the odd line here and there and would have helped paint a better picture of Smiley.

I also had a bit of a problem with the editing. The style of the story is slow and deliberate, and the directing seemed to try and convey this. But some scenes were cut so short that you were left wondering if you had just missed something. It almost felt rushed.

I still loved it though. The cast was fantastic, the sets were brilliant and the whole atmosphere of the film was excellent.

phasers · 23-09-2011 7:12pm

I saw this yesterday and I have never been so bored in my life. I really, really wanted to like it as well, but I couldn't care one jot about any of the characters and I just felt like there was so much missing from the story that I didn't get a chance to get to know anyone. The abrupt jumping around to different places didn't help matters and the way they handled

Irina's death

really annoyed me.

And don't even get me started on the Control thing.

I'm thinking that if you've read the book then the whole thing would fit together perfectly and make complete sense, but it was totally lost on me.

krudler · 23-09-2011 10:27pm

Saw it earlier, the acting, look of it and the setting were all superb. The story did take a while to get going and I think a lot of people are expecting it to be more of a heart pounding cat and mouse type affair which its not, its all misinformation, deceit and duplicity. The time

time jumping aspect was confusing at first with Mark Strong's character but works well later on

cast was all exception, especially Strong, Hardy and Oldman. Its definitely a grown ups movie in the sense a lot is said without being said, if that makes sense.

Bloody Nipples · 23-09-2011 10:43pm

krudler wrote: »

The story did take a while to get going and I think a lot of people are expecting it to be more of a heart pounding cat and mouse type affair which its not

That's exactly what I thought it was going to be. I genuinely believe the trailer is fairly misleading in that respect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aco15ScXCwA

If you look at the trailer, it's got see-sawing violin music that would suggest a serious cranking up of the tension (in my eyes anyway). There's several shots of weapons

which don't play the prominent role they get in the trailer

and the shot at the end of the bald lad facing the camera while the lift door opens to reveal benedict cumberbatch behind him

suggests something much more ominous than taking him off to an airfield and threatening him a bit.

The trailer to me suggested spy thriller, what I got was a very good period drama, which wasn't what I went to see.
Ah well, they have my money now anyway...

Sad Professor · 23-09-2011 11:38pm

I disagree that the trailer was misleading. I knew nothing about the film prior to the trailer. Hadn't read the book or anything. On the basis of the trailer I expected it to be an atmospheric spy thriller for adults, which is exactly what it was. Modern thrillers are half action films, so in that sense I guess it could be considered an old-fashioned thriller, but it is definitely a thriller.

ultain · 24-09-2011 12:06am

Bloody Nipples wrote: »

I normally assume a film will at least attempt to elicit some kind of emotional response from the audience but this made the big reveal with a serious lack of buildup. It was about as exciting and tension-laden as being told what's for dinner.
While I appreciated the great acting, I thought the story overall was a bit of a flop.

Great actors....but you cant beat a great book

WHIP IT! · 24-09-2011 12:10am

Sad Professor wrote: »

I disagree that the trailer was misleading. I knew nothing about the film prior to the trailer. Hadn't read the book or anything. On the basis of the trailer I expected it to be an atmospheric spy thriller for adults, which is exactly what it was. Modern thrillers are half action films, so in that sense I guess it could be considered an old-fashioned thriller, but it is definitely a thriller.

Can you explain what you mean by "for adults"? Thanks

Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy [** SPOILERS FROM POST 174 ONWARD **

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Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy [ SPOILERS FROM POST 174 ONWARD