Are you independent?

Wibbs · 14-09-2011 2:01pm

true-or-false wrote: »

They suffered less from alzheimers and cardiovascular disease because people rarely lived long enough to be high risk. As for depression and cancer, I doubt these tribes have oncologists and psychiatrists to diagnose them.

Medical researchers have observed these trends directly. Look at the ideal medically approved diet to help prevent such illnesses and it's largely what these people call "food". Plus add in the exercise levels. The average Cro magnon man in Europe 30,000 years ago has the same bone density as a modern athlete. We call it exercise, they call it daily living. I watched a programme years back where a San Bushman hunter ran down an antelope for hours over tens of miles before catching and killing it. He was in his early 50's. Their mental health environment tends to be more healthy and supportive than our own, which may explain the notable lack of depression in them. They have much stronger familial and tribal bonds than the average westerner. They also tend to think more in the moment. If one could somehow mix the best elements of their lives with the medical tech of ours we'd all live to be 90 and in great health.

starlit · 14-09-2011 2:37pm

I am fairly independent as in I am generally self-sufficient do most things for myself, can live independently of people but would still be depended on others for some things but not for everything, not like I'd live off of other people or anything like far from it. If I am someone else house it be self service I make it myself wouldn't be expecting others to do it for me and clean up after myself too.

The only aspect I would be depended on other's is say for advice, company, someone to chat too and when it comes to public transport!

Otherwise I do my own thing when it comes to some things but when making decisions I would include people in them and work around them as well as myself when it comes to decisions.

ScumLord · 14-09-2011 2:47pm

I could probably survive if I had too, there's wild food around and I may be able to get by on a steady diet of trusting cats. But like most people if left alone would more than likely go mad.

Scanlas The 2nd · 14-09-2011 2:52pm

ScumLord wrote: »

I could probably survive if I had too, there's wild food around and I may be able to get by on a steady diet of trusting cats. But like most people if left alone would more than likely go mad.

Tom hanks managed ok in castaway. Just get yourself a volleyball and draw a face on it to prevent loneliness.

ScumLord · 14-09-2011 3:02pm

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

Tom hanks managed ok in castaway. Just get yourself a volleyball and draw a face on it to prevent loneliness.

Where am I going to find a volley ball? I could try it with a GAA ball but I reckon he'd be a cunt to try and get along with.

--Kaiser-- · 14-09-2011 3:11pm

NothingMan wrote: »

They only lived til like 30 or so though. Independent maybe, but not the same kind of life or lifespan we enjoy.

Don't believe that rubbish that the hunter-gatherer lifestyle was 'brutish, nasty and short'. Modern hunter-gatherers live to ripe old-ages, are free from most diseases we westerners inflict upon ourselves (diabetes, obesity, heart problems et al.). Also, most spend only about 3 hours a day 'working' (i.e. essential tasks, hunting, making shelter/clothes etc) and have the rest of their time free to do as they wish. In some ways it's a much more favourable lifestyle than the rat-race a lot of modern people live in

Irish Guitarist · 14-09-2011 3:21pm

If factories that make food didn't exist then there would be more trees to get fruit from and more rivers to get water from.

gargleblaster · 14-09-2011 3:27pm

I wonder how many people would give up their modern luxuries to have lower stress levels and a shorter work day?

Android 666 · 14-09-2011 3:28pm

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Don't believe that rubbish that the hunter-gatherer lifestyle was 'brutish, nasty and short'. Modern hunter-gatherers live to ripe old-ages, are free from most diseases we westerners inflict upon ourselves (diabetes, obesity, heart problems et al.). Also, most spend only about 3 hours a day 'working' (i.e. essential tasks, hunting, making shelter/clothes etc) and have the rest of their time free to do as they wish. In some ways it's a much more favourable lifestyle than the rat-race a lot of modern people live in

I'd say it was boring as fúck… Hanging around all day with nothing to do and a about a 1 in 10 chance of dying from getting the squirts.

Saila · 14-09-2011 3:29pm

I can drink my own piss, and give myself an enema with foul smelling 'fresh' water laced with gull sh*t collected from a rock in the middle of the sea with a gull colony on it

looky loo · 14-09-2011 3:29pm

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

Tom hanks managed ok in castaway. Just get yourself a volleyball and draw a face on it to prevent loneliness.

Yes he did, but I wonder if he didnt have the fedex skates to use would he have managed.

I wouldnt have a clue how to survive, I'd be the woman on the beach making a fire for 40 days with two little sticks...and not succeeding!.

Android 666 · 14-09-2011 3:32pm

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

If factories that make food didn't exist then there would be more trees to get fruit from and more rivers to get water from.

I feel a Native American proverb or prayer coming…

--Kaiser-- · 14-09-2011 3:35pm

Android 666 wrote: »

I'd say it was boring as fúck… Hanging around all day with nothing to do and a about a 1 in 10 chance of dying from getting the squirts.

Compared to how many people spend their days (sedentary job for 8 hours, long, boring commute to an from said job, sitting around watching TV), it sounds pretty good to me

jumbomumbo · 14-09-2011 3:36pm

FatherLen wrote: »

all the women, who independent!

Throw your hands up in the air...All the women, making money, flash your panties....

Android 666 · 14-09-2011 3:45pm

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Compared to how many people spend their days (sedentary job for 8 hours, long, boring commute to an from said job, sitting around watching TV), it sounds pretty good to me

At least they probably won't sh¡t themselves to death and they might find out what really happened to Richard Hillman in corrie in the process. Win, win.

The thing is what you describe up above are the results of choices those people made. Choice is the greatest difference between tribal living and living now. I'd rather have the choice to eat that chocolate bun if I want and the choice to say no because I don't want to be a fat bastard. I can just go for a run for pleasure purposes and not because my fooking food is about to disappear. If I'm bored I can read a book or learn guitar. These are things I can choose to do or not to do. Its grrreat!!!

--Kaiser-- · 14-09-2011 3:59pm

Android 666 wrote: »

At least they probably won't sh¡t themselves to death and they might find out what really happened to Richard Hillman in corrie in the process. Win, win.

The thing is what you describe up above are the results of choices those people made. Choice is the greatest difference between tribal living and living now. I'd rather have the choice to eat that chocolate bun if I want and the choice to say no because I don't want to be a fat bastard. I can just go for a run for pleasure purposes and not because my fooking food is about to disappear. If I'm bored I can read a book or learn guitar. These are things I can choose to do or not to do. Its grrreat!!!

What are you on about with the shitting to death?

The point is that (unless you are on the dole you're whole life), you need to support yourself somehow, for most people that involves working a job for 8 hours a day (+ commuting) that they invariably don't particularly like. Hunter gatherers spend most of their days playing games, wandering around, chatting and fucking

Android 666 · 14-09-2011 4:06pm

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

What are you on about with the shitting to death?

Chances are if you got the runs in tribal times, you weren't going to come out well out of it. God bless soap!

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

The point is that (unless you are on the dole you're whole life), you need to support yourself somehow, for most people that involves working a job for 8 hours a day (+ commuting) that they invariably don't particularly like. Hunter gatherers spend most of their days playing games, wandering around, chatting and fucking

But the choices you made throughout your life lead you to be in that position. You can work closer to your home for less money if you choose. You can have shorter hours if you choose. You can spend your life being dissatisfied with the fact you don't live in prehistoric times if you choose. Or you could take up a hobby…

--Kaiser-- · 14-09-2011 4:13pm

Android 666 wrote: »

Chances are if you got the runs in tribal times, you weren't going to come out well out of it. God bless soap!

But the choices you made throughout your life lead you to be in that position. You can work closer to your home for less money if you choose. You can have shorter hours if you choose. You can spend your life being dissatisfied with the fact you don't live in prehistoric times if you choose. Or you could take up a hobby…

Chances are you'd have a much, much stronger immune system if you were a hunter-gatherer.

Frankly I'm struggling to see the point in your posts

gargleblaster · 14-09-2011 4:19pm

No, chances are you'd die. Which is why so many don't make it to/past 15. So those that survive, yes, they have strong immune systems. Those that are born with such weaknesses die early.

Android 666 · 14-09-2011 4:37pm

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Chances are you'd have a much, much stronger immune system if you were a hunter-gatherer.

Frankly I'm struggling to see the point in your posts

Eh not really.

The big killers were infectious respiratory diseases, things like pneumonia, bronchitis, and tuberculosis. Gastrointestinal illnesses also did a number on them, accounting for 5-18% of deaths, with diarrhea (probably stemming from parasites and coupled with malnutrition) taking the lion’s share.

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/life-expectancy-hunter-gatherer/

Thanks to the wonders of modern medicine and immunisation we probably have a better immune system than our hunter gatherer counterparts. True we've probably created a couple of new diseases along the way but hey, who would have a better chance of recovering from them - us or the hunter-gatherers?

Your struggling with the concept of choice? What I'm trying to say is that if you were a hunter-gatherer you had a pre-designed role in life and that was all you done - if you were sh¡t with a spear chances are you weren't going to be the alpha male... Nowadays, the whole world and all its professions is open to you and you can do whatever you want. You can be a truck driver, artist, doctor, anything! If you happen to end up commuting to a job you really hate all of the time and then spend your time vegging in front of the telly, well that's because of whatever choices you've made and are continuing to make. Just because some people choose to do that doesn't invalidate the rest of modern existence.

--Kaiser-- · 14-09-2011 4:43pm

Android 666 wrote: »

Eh not really.

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/life-expectancy-hunter-gatherer/

Thanks to the wonders of modern medicine and immunisation we probably have a better immune system than our hunter gatherer counterparts. True we've probably created a couple of new diseases along the way but hey, who would have a better chance of recovering from them - us or the hunter-gatherers?

Your struggling with the concept of choice? What I'm trying to say is that if you were a hunter-gatherer you had a pre-designed role in life and that was all you done - if you were sh¡t with a spear chances are you weren't going to be the alpha male... Nowadays, the whole world and all its professions is open to you and you can do whatever you want. You can be a truck driver, artist, doctor, anything! If you happen to end up commuting to a job you really hate all of the time and then spend your time vegging in front of the telly, well that's because of whatever choices you've made and are continuing to make. Just because some people choose to do that doesn't invalidate the rest of modern existence.

Who was invalidating all of modern existence? I merely said the hunter-gatherer lifestyle had some advantages over some modern lifestyles. Talk about a straw man argument

14-09-2011 4:59pm

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

I am highly dependent and think those who claim to be "independent" are talking rubbish.

Actually I would add to my previous posts that I have a large herb and vegetable garden so I am quite "independant" in that way too. Though I do side with the people who suggest that "self sufficient" is probably the more accurate phrase.

I also keep chickens so I produce some of my own eggs. I have on occasion killed and eaten a chicken. I am a firm believer in the idea that anyone who does not want to be a vegetarian should kill and eat their own meat at least once in their life. And not just fish which is relatively easy to catch, gut and grill.

Android 666 · 14-09-2011 5:04pm

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Who was invalidating all of modern existence? I merely said the hunter-gatherer lifestyle had some advantages over some modern lifestyles. Talk about a straw man argument

Probably. I just got so excited flicking between this thread and some porn that I lost the run of myself. The modern age rocks!

Android 666 · 14-09-2011 5:09pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I am a firm believer in the idea that anyone who does not want to be a vegetarian should kill and eat their own meat at least once in their life. And not just fish which is relatively easy to catch, gut and grill.

I am a firm believer that paying a butcher to sort out my meat benefits society as a whole. It creates jobs and stops me getting blood on my hands which would lead to me overusing soaps and possibly new and virulently resistant to soap MRSA. I am only thinking of the children…

15-09-2011 8:10am

Android 666 wrote: »

I am a firm believer that paying a butcher to sort out my meat benefits society as a whole. It creates jobs and stops me getting blood on my hands which would lead to me overusing soaps and possibly new and virulently resistant to soap MRSA. I am only thinking of the children…

Hah! Agreed, I am perfectly happy with having people in society who's job it is to do this for me too on a daily basis.

I just meant I think it is worth doing oneself at least one time. Not consistently.

Kash · 15-09-2011 7:14pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Hah! Agreed, I am perfectly happy with having people in society who's job it is to do this for me too on a daily basis.

I just meant I think it is worth doing oneself at least one time. Not consistently.

I agree with this in spirit - I would prefer the butcher to do it (mainly because I would make an unholy mess) and I believe that if you eat meat you need to be willing to turn a cow into something vaguely steak shaped. Of course, I can't see anyone actually letting me do that to their cows. And if I extend the logic, it stands to reason that I would want all cider drinkers to grow their own apples and make their own booze, and honey eaters should tend their own bees, or lipstick-wearers should render their own whale... at least once. It just gets ridiculous by extension.

I would prefer to be self-sufficient within my family unit, but as a species we evolved to work in groups, and groups develop experts. It makes more sense for the expert to do the work that they are good at, and trade for the things they are not. The means and methods have changed, but the concept is still going strong.

16-09-2011 7:58am

Kash wrote: »

I would want all cider drinkers to grow their own apples and make their own booze, and honey eaters should tend their own bees, or lipstick-wearers should render their own whale... at least once. It just gets ridiculous by extension.

I would not be so keen to suggest it for those other things because creating ones own cider from apples does not really involve the same level of personal ethical challange as killing ones own meat.

However that said I would point out that making ones own beer and cider is actually quite fun and I recommend it and is a good excuse for a big house party when the brewing is complete.

But I am just personally someone who enjoys doing things myself. Over the last years I built a small house on my land, fully plumbed and wired with bedroom, bathroom and open plan kitchen/living room, and an 8 person out door heated Jacuzzi and a stone BBQ with inbuilt stone pizza oven and a herb and vegetable garden. I recently got some personal karma buzz by moving a masters student into the house for one college year and allowing her to live in it for free. Some of the wood in the house needs to be "lived in" to have it settle so I benefit from her presence even if not financially, and I enjoy the feeling of goodwill I received from letting a poor student with genuine academic goals to live rent free for a year.

I enjoyed the learning curve, the experience and most of all comparing the total cost at the end of each project with the usually very much higher quotes for such work I got off "experts" for doing the same job.

Not sure where to go from here but I am thinking of restoring an old leaded fuel car to a fully working unleaded car if I can track down the particular make and model of car that I am looking for as it is the first car I recall my father driving.

I am all for having experts in our society do the things for us even though I have realised most of them are shafting us on the estimates they give us for their work. However there is a lot of fun, and inner peace, involved in knowing that should you be called upon to do their work for any reason then one is capable of doing so.

Kash · 16-09-2011 9:19am

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you wholeheartedly -
I am merely pointing out that even being capable of being 'fully independent' (in the sense that the OP meant it) is going to be impossible for all but the most extreme of people.

I also enjoy the sense of satisfaction I get from doing something myself, whether is is something as simple as baking cookies, to something more complex like making my own clothes. I admit I haven't done anything near as impressive as building a house, nor even the BBQ/pizza oven... but a BBQ is something I had floating in my mind for a while, and you have now inspired me to figure out how to add a pizza oven to it! As for home brewing - it's the way to go... and I have had many a party to prove it.

I believe it is the willingness to research, the disposition to try and to learn that needs to be applauded in people. Unfortunately, it is not always the easiest option, and certainly not the most convenient. Also, if your research isn't very good, or you simply lack a required skill it can become quite costly. However, in my experience, the risk is almost always worth the gain.

I do hope you find the car you are looking for... it sounds like the perfect project. I would love to restore a car, but I wouldn't know where to start, and would need to do a LOT of reading before I felt confident that I wouldn't just end up turning it into an unusual flower pot!

16-09-2011 9:25am

Stone BBQs are the business and if you read enough on the subject youll find people have come up with some interesting design ideas for allowing ease of clearning, maintenance and more. Youll enjoy that project. Some ingenious designs actually allow for a remarkable amount of dismantling and rebuilding for cleaning and maintenance purposes, rather than just a big stone fixed unmovable lump.

The Jacuzzi was the most fun though. From having all the lads over with a crate of beer digging a big ass hole, to modifying designs to do things like add speakers around the outside of the pool in a water near electricity friendly fashion. One can now walk over to my jacuzzi, USB their MP3 player into the rim of it, and settle into it listening to their faveorite tracks coming from a series of surround sound speakers around the outside of it content in the knowledge their MP3 player is both safe in a little sealable compartment with a door and is being helpfully charged for them at the same time.

Amongst other things its a great way to get girls out of their clothes at your house parties

ScumLord · 16-09-2011 2:33pm

Android 666 wrote: »

The thing is what you describe up above are the results of choices those people made. Choice is the greatest difference between tribal living and living now. I'd rather have the choice to eat that chocolate bun if I want and the choice to say no because I don't want to be a fat bastard. I can just go for a run for pleasure purposes and not because my fooking food is about to disappear. If I'm bored I can read a book or learn guitar. These are things I can choose to do or not to do. Its grrreat!!!

The thing about food and using the energy that food gives us is humans like every other animal on the planet is instinctively driven to seek out the highest calories and do everything in their power to conserve those calories. It's not as simple as being a straight forward choice our design came about under different circumstances, we're a machine that's built for a different environment and to be a healthy human in this environment you have to go against your fundamental programming. It's not easy to do that, I think we're more or less the only animal on the planet that can even consider it.

Are you independent?

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