Are you independent?

Scanlas The 2nd · 14-09-2011 8:37am #1

I'm certainly not, if other people didn't help me I'd starve to death as I don't know how to hunt or prepare the animal after it is killed. I don't think I would know where to start looking to find some berries or fruit growing on trees. I'd have a look but how long will you live on berries and fruit. I can't fish either and I've no idea how to make clothes. I'd freeze to death. So in summary I am highly dependent and think those who claim to be "independent" are talking rubbish.

Dravokivich · 14-09-2011 8:39am

Aren't you describing being Self Sufficient as opposed to being Independant?

FatherLen · 14-09-2011 8:39am

all the women, who independent!

Scanlas The 2nd · 14-09-2011 8:41am

Dravokivich wrote: »

Aren't you describing being Self Sufficient as opposed to being Independant?

I'm talking about not being dependent on other people. If you die without the help of other people I think you can safely you depend on them therefore you are independent.

I think it's a buzzword people like to call themselves to feel better but in reality it's a delusion.

Mena · 14-09-2011 8:42am

I spent 2 years (conscription) and another two (by choice) in the military, so I'd say yes I am based on your criteria in the op.

We're not all molly coddled pansies

stupidusername · 14-09-2011 8:44am

It's hardly being molly coddled,it's the developed world.

Caoimhín · 14-09-2011 8:46am

I already live like that up here on Caoimhin Mountain.

Mena · 14-09-2011 8:49am

stupidusername wrote: »

It's hardly being molly coddled,it's the developed world.

Nope, molly coddled.

Scanlas The 2nd · 14-09-2011 8:50am

stupidusername wrote: »

It's hardly being molly coddled,it's the developed world.

Don't fool yourself though, without the help of other people you would die. What would you wear to get through the winter if other people didn't make your clothes for you to wear? How warm would the cave be if if other people didn't build your shelter for you? Can you independently light a fire?

Dravokivich · 14-09-2011 8:52am

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

I'm talking about not being dependent on other people. If you die without the help of other people I think you can safely you depend on them therefore you are independent.

I think it's a buzzword people like to call themselves to feel better but in reality it's a delusion.

I don't really understand what you mean by that line.

But isn't the buzzword you're looking for "synergy?" There's always going to be some aspect of trading or requirement to exchange between people. Even before the big industry there is now with a consumer market, people had specialist abilities and bartared based on that.

It doesn't make you any less independent.

stupidusername · 14-09-2011 8:54am

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

Don't fool yourself though, without the help of other people you would die. What would you wear to get through the winter if other people didn't make your clothes for you to wear? How warm would the cave be if if other people didn't build your shelter for you? Can you independently light a fire?

No cant do any of that,doesn't mean i'm molly coddled. Wealth has lead to the development that we have which is why the vast majority of westerners couldn't do any of it. I'm not saying it's right or wrong,but it's happened that way.we dont need to know that stuff because we've advanced further than that.

Scanlas The 2nd · 14-09-2011 8:54am

Dravokivich wrote: »

I don't really understand what you mean by that line.

But isn't the buzzword you're looking for "synergy?" There's always going to be some aspect of trading or requirement to exchange between people. Even before the big industry there is now with a consumer market, people had specialist abilities and bartared based on that.

It doesn't make you any less independent.

How would you define someone who is dependent?

stovelid · 14-09-2011 8:55am

Most people in the midlands live like that anyway.

bnt · 14-09-2011 9:05am

Never mind food & clothing: without a good supply of clean water, you will not last a week. After the apocalypse, that's the first order of business: secure the water supply.

Scanlas The 2nd · 14-09-2011 9:07am

stupidusername wrote: »

No cant do any of that,doesn't mean i'm molly coddled. Wealth has lead to the development that we have which is why the vast majority of westerners couldn't do any of it. I'm not saying it's right or wrong,but it's happened that way.we dont need to know that stuff because we've advanced further than that.

Completely agree, but can we really say we are independent.

stupidusername · 14-09-2011 9:09am

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

Completely agree, but can we really say we are independent.

Well then of course not,not a single person on earth is independent

Scanlas The 2nd · 14-09-2011 9:19am

stupidusername wrote: »

Well then of course not,not a single person on earth is independent

I'm sure there are plenty of people who are independent. For a start there are people in tribes who would be independent then there are people in modern society who just have the skills to make their own clothes,shelter, food etc so they don't depend on other people but they do use other people's help.

I think if people did learn these skills they would become happier, more confident and more stressfree in life.

Dravokivich · 14-09-2011 9:21am

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

How would you define someone who is dependent?

Not really something I've put much thought into before, off hand I'd say:

- Someone with a disability that impedes them and requires assistance from another. (Mental and/or Physical)

Additionally, I'd probably consider someone who is unable to be personally responsible for their own well being as dependent. Such as:

- Unable to cook their own food.

But that can go back into the bartar thing I referenced above as you can trade for cooked food.

So possibly being unable to provide anything that would be of benifit to yourself. I'm employed, my employment provides me with money I can trade with. I can cook, clean and generally look after myself. From that point I would consider myself to be independent as once I'm employed I can provide for myself.

Although we've got people on Social Welfare who are unable to gain employment, they are dependant on the Social Welfare to provide them with a means to trade. But once they have that means to trade, they can still be farely independent from there as they would be in a position that would allow them to be responsible for their own well being.

RedXIV · 14-09-2011 9:28am

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

I think if people did learn these skills they would become happier, more confident and more stressfree in life.

Actually, if you think about it, if everyone had to learn these skills, there's no way we would have evolved as well as we did. I remember reading a fact somewhere that in around 1100AD was the last time when one person could learn all the knowledge garnered by our species, its an estimate but it provides a valuable insight. The reason we're so successful as species is that we can communicate and delegate. I'd be able to skin and prepare meat but ask me to weave or make clothes and I'd be lost. So we delegate.

So as a result, its a good thing not to be independent, in your definition. It allows us to be more sophisticated creatures

Big Nasty · 14-09-2011 9:30am

I'm a Times man myself! :pac:

Scanlas The 2nd · 14-09-2011 9:32am

Dravokivich wrote: »

Not really something I've put much thought into before, off hand I'd say:

- Someone with a disability that impedes them and requires assistance from another. (Mental and/or Physical)

Additionally, I'd probably consider someone who is unable to be personally responsible for their own well being as dependent. Such as:

- Unable to cook their own food.

But that can go back into the bartar thing I referenced above as you can trade for cooked food.

So possibly being unable to provide anything that would be of benifit to yourself. I'm employed, my employment provides me with money I can trade with. I can cook, clean and generally look after myself. From that point I would consider myself to be independent as once I'm employed I can provide for myself.

Although we've got people on Social Welfare who are unable to gain employment, they are dependant on the Social Welfare to provide them with a means to trade. But once they have that means to trade, they can still be farely independent from there as they would be in a position that would allow them to be responsible for their own well being.

So are you saying as long as you are not disabled/sick etc. and have money you are independent?

NothingMan · 14-09-2011 9:37am

FatherLen wrote: »

all the women, who independent!

\0/

Apocalypse? Better drink my own piss.

I'm sure I'd be fine. I've learned from the best.

Wibbs · 14-09-2011 9:40am

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

Don't fool yourself though, without the help of other people you would die. What would you wear to get through the winter if other people didn't make your clothes for you to wear? How warm would the cave be if if other people didn't build your shelter for you? Can you independently light a fire?

While I'm no Ray Mears, I can light a fire without matches or a firestick(Bear Grylls you cheater:D), I can cobble together stone tools, I have hunted and fished and I know how to prepare hides so I suppose I could make clothes. I'd need to brush up on edible plants and the like and I'd rather do it somewhere like northern spain, southern france mind. Ireland is a bit barren of dacent wild food these days. That all said a stone age hunter gatherer wasn't independent either. Yes he'd last a lot longer than some doughy modern bloke searching for his inhaler, but he had a tribe around him. A tribe which was a storehouse of info on food and culture.

Snakeblood · 14-09-2011 9:43am

I've read Stig of the Dump, picked up a few pointers. I'd be fine.

Latchy · 14-09-2011 9:48am

Post -Apocalyptic , as long as we can keep the zombies at bay we'll be fine ...facking cannibals

yeppydeppy · 14-09-2011 9:51am

No man (or woman -keep it up Stan) is an island.

But I reckon I could survive if left destitute.

Azureus · 14-09-2011 9:52am

If you wanna be pedantic about it, nobody is independent-whatever about being able to make our own food/clothes/shelter,if the stuff wasnt there to make it from then no matter what we're screwed. In that way we're dependant on water to live,dependant on food to survive...its not really a pratical way of thinking.
Id consider myself independant because I dont rely on other people to survive in the developed world-but if I was pushed to a place without shelter and warmth for long periods of time then yeah-Id probably die, there's only so much pillow forts taught me as a child

14-09-2011 10:01am

Language is a tool to communicate. If the meaning of "independent" has changed to what we all know it now as, so be it.
No one is independent by the OP's shlte logic.. I am independent by my own and the rest of the world's logic. So I win.

mariaalice · 14-09-2011 10:04am

The point is we don't need those skills in modern society so we have forgotten them. In the 14th century a large proportion of people could not read and write, but a large proportion could kill and prepare meat. Skills that are important change as society changes.

If you are really concerned why not buy survivalist book and have a go at some of the skills you need to survive.

Practice on a table covered in newspapers in the garden at first, the blood, fur, feathers are very messy, start with gutting and filleting fish or skinning a rabbit they are not to difficult to do.

Scanlas The 2nd · 14-09-2011 10:08am

mariaalice wrote: »

The point is we don't need those skills in modern society so we have forgotten them. In the 14th century a large proportion of people could not read and write, but a large proportion could kill and prepare meat. Skills that are important change as society changes.

If you are really concerned why not buy survivalist book and have a go at some of the skills you need to survive.

Practice on a table covered in newspapers in the garden at first, the blood, fur, feathers are very messy, start with gutting and filleting fish or skinning a rabbit they are not to difficult to do.

I perfectly happy being dependent, just think people talk too much about being "independent".

I think what people mean when they say they are independent is that they can get by without the charity of other people.

A small child is dependent on the charity of their parents to survive.

jester77 · 14-09-2011 10:11am

By applying the logic of the OP, then no, not until the day I can succeed in giving myself open heart surgery will I be independent

Are you independent?

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