Year of the French 1798

jonniebgood1 wrote: »

We need evidence of an ulterior motive though before accepting it.

HellsAngel wrote: »

The realignment between the Catholic church and the British happened as the Church feared the French Revoloution more than Protestant England and vice versa.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Sounds to me as if you don't like the probability that the French would have taken over and treated the Irish the same way they treated the Belgians, or any other population they conquered.

The Irish slave trade began when James II sold 30,000 Irish prisoners as slaves to the New World. His Proclamation of 1625 required Irish political prisoners be sent overseas and sold to English settlers in the West Indies. By the mid 1600s, the Irish were the main slaves sold to Antigua and Montserrat. At that time, 70% of the total population of Montserrat were Irish slaves.
Ireland quickly became the biggest source of human livestock for English merchants. The majority of the early slaves to the New World were actually white.
From 1641 to 1652, over 500,000 Irish were killed by the English and another 300,000 were sold as slaves. Ireland’s population fell from about 1,500,000 to 600,000 in one single decade. Families were ripped apart as the British did not allow Irish dads to take their wives and children with them across the Atlantic. This led to a helpless population of homeless women and children. Britain’s solution was to auction them off as well.
During the 1650s, over 100,000 Irish children between the ages of 10 and 14 were taken from their parents and sold as slaves in the West Indies, Virginia and New England. In this decade, 52,000 Irish (mostly women and children) were sold to Barbados and Virginia. Another 30,000 Irish men and women were also transported and sold to the highest bidder. In 1656, Cromwell ordered that 2000 Irish children be taken to Jamaica and sold as slaves to English settlers.
Many people today will avoid calling the Irish slaves what they truly were: Slaves. They’ll come up with terms like “Indentured Servants” to describe what occurred to the Irish. However, in most cases from the 17th and 18th centuries, Irish slaves were nothing more than human cattle.
As an example, the African slave trade was just beginning during this same period. It is well recorded that African slaves, not tainted with the stain of the hated Catholic theology and more expensive to purchase, were often treated far better than their Irish counterparts.
African slaves were very expensive during the late 1600s (50 Sterling). Irish slaves came cheap (no more than 5 Sterling). If a planter whipped or branded or beat an Irish slave to death, it was never a crime. A death was a monetary setback, but far cheaper than killing a more expensive African.
The English masters quickly began breeding the Irish women for both their own personal pleasure and for greater profit. Children of slaves were themselves slaves, which increased the size of the master’s free workforce. Even if an Irish woman somehow obtained her freedom, her kids would remain slaves of her master. Thus, Irish moms, even with this new found emancipation, would seldom abandon their kids and would remain in servitude.
In time, the English thought of a better way to use these women (in many cases, girls as young as 12) to increase their market share: The settlers began to breed Irish women and girls with African men to produce slaves with a distinct complexion. These new “mulatto” slaves brought a higher price than Irish livestock and, likewise, enabled the settlers to save money rather than purchase new African slaves.
This practice of interbreeding Irish females with African men went on for several decades and was so widespread that, in 1681, legislation was passed “forbidding the practice of mating Irish slave women to African slave men for the purpose of producing slaves for sale.” In short, it was stopped only because it interfered with the profits of a large slave transport company.
England continued to ship tens of thousands of Irish slaves for more than a century. Records state that, after the 1798 Irish Rebellion, thousands of Irish slaves were sold to both America and Australia.
There were horrible abuses of both African and Irish captives. One British ship even dumped 1,302 slaves into the Atlantic Ocean so that the crew would have plenty of food to eat.
There is little question that the Irish experienced the horrors of slavery as much (if not more in the 17th Century) as the Africans did. There is, also, very little question that those brown, tanned faces you witness in your travels to the West Indies are very likely a combination of African and Irish ancestry.
In 1839, Britain finally decided on it’s own to end it’s participation in Satan’s highway to hell and stopped transporting slaves. While their decision did not stop pirates from doing what they desired, the new law slowly concluded THIS chapter of nightmarish Irish misery.

http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/sesostris-the-great-the-egyptian-hercules/the-irish-slave-trade-forgotten-white-slaves/

White Slavery Re: Slaves of Scotland

There were hundreds of thousands of Scots sold into slavery during Colonial America. White slavery to the American Colonies occurred as early as 1630 in Scotland.
According to the Egerton manuscript, British Museum, the enactment of 1652: it may be lawful for two or more justices of peace within any county, citty or towne, corporate belonging to the commonwealth to from tyme to tyme by warrant cause to be apprehended, seized on and detained all and every person or persons that shall be found begging and vagrant.. in any towne, parish or place to be conveyed into the Port of London, or unto any other port from where such person or persons may be shipped into a forraign collonie or plantation.
The judges of Edinburgh Scotland during the years 1662-1665 ordered the enslavement and shipment to the colonies a large number of rogues and others who made life unpleasant for the British upper class. (Register for the Privy Council of Scotland, third series, vol. 1, p 181, vol. 2, p 101).

Scottish Slaves : Mainly prisoners sold by Cromwell, Aberdeen was a dangerous town for chilfren, there was a lot of kidnapping down there. Scotland was a hunting grown for slaves like west Africa.
Irish Slaves : Mainly Prisoners sold by Cromwell the butcher like the Scots. Irish were sold as slaves in the new world in order to made space for the English colonists into Ireland (Lands, Properties). They were called the “White-****” in the United States and they went through many riots because of their nationality.
In Barbados they were the “Red-Legs” and they were the poorest they even survived because of the charity of Black slaves. Some white masters even called them “White Trash”….
The White slavery ( called falsely “Indentured Servant” or “servant”) was the capital and economic basement for African slavery ( see Eric Williams and Gabriel Debien). The people who sold white people and gained capital from this business like in Bristol or Liverpool turned to Africa and destroyed that continent with their former experience in selling human beings…

http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/sesostris-the-great-the-egyptian-hercules/hidden-history-the-white-slaves-of-americas-by-nehesy/

HellsAngel wrote: »

Anyone know if it's true that in Wexford the UI men took over some ships in the harbour and loaded cannons onto them in preparation to try and repel a sea invasion of the town if the situation arose by the British ?

CDfm wrote: »

But Fred there was an Irish and Scottish slave trades a practice which the English continued until 1839 .

And the emigration trade(coffin ships) may have taken over from that.

CDfm wrote: »

You made a point about the French Republic and I refuted it .Like it or not the material on England and slavery is not new or new to you. The article I used ,while not an academic journal, is true and well referenced elsewhere.

I responded to your anti French post. What the English did to each other is a bit off topic here and if you start a thread on it I will contribute to it. You were part of a similar discussion on slavery on a thread on this forum and I have posted a link to it in response to slowburner on this page.

The source I used referenced the Scottish diaspora and I used it because the ethnic background of some of the rebels in 1798 was Scottish and I thought it a good thing to use the link to build a profile of them and the NI population.Maybe it will help us understand each other.

I also gave a summary of the greviences that other sectors of Irish Society had -including the Protestant Middle Classes.

Slavery and transportation was practiced by the English in Ireland as a political policy of land clearences/ethnic cleansing and of plantation by replacing the existing population. The French Republic outlawed slavery in 1795. I have not made any claims that the French aid was altruistic but that it was part of an on-going French/English thing.

I don't do rants Fred. Why, I even took the time recently to correct an unfavourable impression you gave on Winston Churchill's attitude to Irish Independence with properly sourced material recently just in case people would have relied on it as fact and fuelled an unflattering stereotype about the man which was not true.

http://m.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=73803546&postcount=43

It seems to me that when you do not like the historical facts you have a go at the poster and if that puts me in the same category as March Dub , whose posts you regularly criticise. then I am in good company.