Cafe Paradiso

Ok folks, first of all, very busy at the moment with a new job in a new country so only getting around to replying to this now.

So here goes...

Last December 30th, my girlfriend and I went for dinner in Cafe Paradiso in Cork. I being vegetarian for 17 years had heard a lot about this particular restaurant and everything that had been said about it was positive. So, it was something my girlfriend and I had been looking foward to.

Now, being vegetarian for the last 17 years, I have encountered my fair share of establishments that list items on their menus that they claim to be vegetarian but are not, for example, a pasta dish with parmesan cheese. So, when we were looking through the menu, I noticed that many of the main courses contained cheese. Thus, I made a point of asking the lady who served us if they were suitable for vegetarians. Before I could even ask the question properly, I was decisively told that everything on the menu was absolutely fine for strict vegetarians. I smiled and thought to myself "this is one of the few places where they actually go by the same definition of the term vegetarian as all other places should do i.e. truly vegetarian means not eating anything from an animal that died before the food was produced. And so, we ordered our starter and main course and subsequently ate them.

As the meal progressed and we were looking towards dessert, I noticed that one of the deserts contained Beamish Stout. Just weeks before, I had rang Beamish & Crawford to enquire as to whether or not their stout product was suitable for vegetarians. They informed me that, just like Murphy's, Guinness and O'Hara's, they use isinglass. This, as most of you are aware, comes from the swim bladder of various species fish. I did not want to say anything during dessert but on the way out, I did bring it up with the lady who served us. She replied with a laugh as were were leaving "you're the first person in 3 years to spot that, we thought we had got away with it".

So, we left, disgusted and baffled. How could this restaurant with such a reputation think it's ok to have a dessert containing Beamish Stout on its menu?

I rang the restaurant a couple of weeks later and the owner wasn't there. In fairness, he did try to ring me back a couple of times but I was unable to take his call. After another couple of attempts to contact him but to no avail, he rang me back in April. And these were the main points from the conversation:

1. When I mentioned that I was surprised with the inclusion of Beamish Stout on the menu, and that I didn't expect it from a restaurant which claims to vegetarian, he interupted me and said that they don't claim to be vegetarian. Their website states that they are a vegetarian website.

2. We nevertheless then proceeded to discuss the definition of "vegetarian" and he said that there are "about 2000 definitions of the word vegetarian" and that he doesn't go by the vegetarian society definition.

3. He said that Beamish is vegetarian enough for him. Even though it contains isinglass.

4. The crux of this issue is, if he deems his product to be vegetarian, what exactly did his employee think they were getting away with?

5. I also asked, how can we believe that his cheeses are suitable for vegetarians if he considers Beamish to be vegetarian. He said that vegetarian rennet is used in their production.

6. He laughed when I said that I would be relaying this information to internet forums for vegetarians.

7. He laughed when I said that I would be contacting the Vegetarian Society about it.


All of the above is factually correct. I have a witness to both the events and the phone call.

Again, sorry for the delay in getting back about this.

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

and indeed, for many vegetarians it is indeed vegetarian, none of it is in the final product.

Yeah but...I'd be a bit uneasy about it, just because they didn't seem to think it was anything people would want/need to know about. Like if isinglass isn't a big deal then how could you trust them about rennet or gelatine, or any of the other things you wouldn't necessarily notice. If it was a case where they even had a little mark beside the item on the menu or something that mentioned the isinglass it would be one thing, but to claim to be a completely vegetarian restaurant and then play it fast and loose with the definition and try and sneak stuff past people is another thing altogether.

It's not going to stop me going there (lack of money manages to do that just fine on its own ) but if I am there in future I'll be looking closely at the menu before I order, just in case. Which is annoying, because the thing I like best about vegetarian restaurants is NOT having to scan all the ingredients and just ordering what looks appealing. That said, the one time I was at Café Paradiso it was honestly one of the best meals of my life, the staff were lovely, the whole place was lovely! I was there with my family, none of whom are vegetarian (though they wouldn't eat looooads of meat) and they were all more than happy as well.

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

and indeed, for many vegetarians it is indeed vegetarian, none of it is in the final product.

Not necessarily true Tar.

I've spoken to Guinness and Beamsish and both have said that they can never guarantee that the isinglass has been fully removed.

Besides, if one is vegetarian for ethical reasons, it's irrelevant as to whether or not it's in the final product. Isinglass comes from a dead animal.

Slaphead07 wrote: »

Denis Cotter is vegetarian and a hugely positive figure in vegetarian Ireland. It is a bit much that he knowing decides isinglass is ok but when he says there's many levels of vegetarianism he's right. Somewhat tactless, inconsiderate and disingenuous maybe but not inaccurate.

I agree with that, and I wouldn't lose too much sleep over isinglass (like if there's a product with isinglass and one without I'll choose the one without, and I don't drink Guinness or Beamish or anything like that because it's likely to have it, but if I don't know for sure if something has it I won't refuse to drink it). And there are degrees of how people define their own vegetarianism and I don't think there's anything too wrong with that, and yes some people aren't vegetarian for ethical reasons, but if a place is making a big song and dance about being vegetarian they should cater to the strictest definition. It's not the isinglass that's worrying me, it's the attitude.