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M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

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    #362
    Chris_5339762
    Registered Users Posts: 5,870 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    oops


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    #363
    apoeiguq3094y
    Registered Users Posts: 414 ✭✭apoeiguq3094y


    123easy wrote: »
    .... and the other imbeciles didnt blockup up entire roundabouts trying bully their way onto an already blocked up exit lane then things wouldnt be as bad at rush hour.

    I've often ended up coming around the headford rd roundabout (from dunnes, going the whole way around to get into dun na coiribe) and when you get to the last set of lights, there is often not enough room. I end up blocking off traffic going over the bridge, but I have no where to go. Its not my fault that the lights won't change, and I couldn't see if the way was blocked before I got on the roundabout. Then you get someone behind you sitting on the horn... What am I supposed to do. :confused:

    (I know 123easy may not be talking about this exact problem, so I'm not saying you are the guy who sits behind honking. )


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    #364
    KevR
    Registered Users Posts: 3,110 ✭✭✭KevR


    40% of roads gridlocked, a study has found.

    Dublin and Limerick come a close second and third, with both cities having close to 30% of roads clogged with traffic.

    And it is bad news for Cork and Waterford who took fourth and fifth place in the top traffic hotspots.

    Just going back to the congestion study again, does anyone have any idea of when and for how long this data was collected?

    The capacity of the M50 was recently doubled; the Shannon tunnel recently opened in Limerick and the Waterford Bypass opened a little over a year ago.
    If the TomTom study was carried out over a period of a year or more then the figures for Dublin, Limerick and Waterford will be out of date already (i.e. - the percentage of congested roads should be slightly lower). Only the figures for Galway and Cork would still be in date (and as bad, if not worse!).


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    #365
    antoobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    The European commission have approved a project in Germany with similar environmental concerns to the bypass. I hope this is good news, we need some new years cheer (despite the fact that there's no funding etc).

    http://www.galwaynews.ie/16819-galway-bypass-thrown-lifeline-euro-decision


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    #366
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    I think it is this one

    http://ec.europa.eu/environment/nature/natura2000/management/docs/hessen_en.pdf

    although there was another earlier this year

    http://ec.europa.eu/environment/nature/natura2000/management/docs/a20_en.pdf

    From the uppermost of those links
    According to article 6 (4) of directive 92/43/EEC, a plan or a project may be carried out in
    spite of a negative assessment of the implications for a Natura 2000 site, in the absence of
    alternative solutions, if it is justified for imperative reasons of overriding public interest,
    including those of a social or economic nature. In this case the Member States shall take all
    compensatory measures necessary to ensure that the overall coherence of Natura 2000 is
    protected and it shall inform the Commission of the compensatory measures adopted.
    the site itself
    The proposed section will
    run through the western part of the Natura 2000 site “Herrenwald östlich Stadtallendorf" (DE
    5120-303), cutting through this area on its margin. The project also includes the construction of a bridge with a height of 6 – 11 meter and a length of 350 meter, crossing the river "Joßklein". IV. The sites
    The site DE 5120-303 „Herrenwald östlich Stadtallendorf“ is a Site of Community Importance (SCI) designated under the Habitats Directive. It is situated in the Continental biogeographical region and covers an area of 2,688 hectares. It is characterised by structurally diverse, heterogeneous woodland with some old stands of beech and alder. The most significant habitat type of Community interest in the SCI is the 'Luzulo-Fagetum beech forest' which covers 452 ha.

    Of which the Germans propose to take or affect 5.5 or 6.5 HA out of 2688ha, 0.2%.
    An appropriate assessment according to Art. 6 (3) of the Habitats Directive was carried out
    for the proposed motorway section. It concluded that the construction of this section and the
    associated construction of a bridge will have a significant impact on the Natura 2000 site "
    Herrenwald östlich Stadtallendorf " in particular on two habitat types, the 'Luzulu-Fagetum
    beech forest' (9110) and the priority habitat type 'Alluvial forests with Alnus glutinosa and Fraxinus excelsior' (91 EO*). The total loss of the habitat types 9110 and 91EO* will be limited to approximately 0,96 ha. Increased nitrogen depositions from road traffic will affect the habitat type 91EO* and its characteristic plant species over an area of 5,50 ha.

    The Lough Corrib SAC is much larger at 20,556 ha and the land take..therefore ...pro rata...... could be as high as 40 ha in the SAC alone before it was analagous to the impact of the German Motorway at 0.2% of the entire SAC

    The proposed land take for the enitre bypass scheme was 232 Ha from Furbo to the Airport. 198 Ha is agricultural so only 34Ha could possibly be SAC land but I think some of the 24ha is zoned not agricultural so the SAC take is a portion of the 34ha, there is an area of non agricultural bog and NHA designated non agricultural bog on the western section too.

    However the sub habitat within the SAC is a Limestone Flag area on the fringe called the Coolagh Limestone pavement and the overall take from the SAC overall appears to be around 20HA of that 230HA to be taken ...mainly Limestone Pavement.

    Back to the EU again.
    Twelve alternatives have been assessed, but the objectives pursued with the construction of
    the motorway, such as transport safety and regional development would not be achieved
    without affecting the Natura 2000 site. Therefore the planned route for the extension of the
    A49 results as the only possibility to reach the objectives of the project in the context of the
    trans-European road-network. The Commission holds the view that the assessment of possible
    alternatives to the project was carried out in a satisfactory way and that it can be accepted that
    there exist no alternatives to the project.
    With regard to mitigation measures, the Commission considers (on the basis of the available
    information) that the actions to be implemented will limit the negative effects of the
    construction and operation of the motorway. The mitigation measures are adequate and follow
    the precautionary approach. The project will however have adverse effects on the priority
    habitat type '91E0* Alluvial forests'. These effects will be compensated by the creation of
    equivalent habitats on a total area of 12,84 ha. This will increase the local area of the habitat type 91EO* by 23 %.
    So finding max 80Ha ( more likely 40ha) of Limestone Flag in North Galway and adding it to the SAC would seem to be solution. See the affected Limestone Flag here ....with large Lackagh Quarry to the south ( you must turn on Aerial 2005) .

    I see a bit here and another here that will do the trick :)

    Sorted, now lets move on :(


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    #367
    Chris_5339762
    Registered Users Posts: 5,870 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    Whats interesting is that this scheme was previously marked as suspended on the NRA site. Its not listed as that anymore.


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    #368
    antoobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    A delegation from interest groups supporting the bypass was in Brussels yesterday meeting with "leading European officials". The claim to have gotten "a very positive impression" and "fairly constructive suggestions".

    Mostly rubbish we have probably heard before. Interestingly they're talking about preparing a new planning application for when the Supreme court make their decision. The disappointing thing from my view is that there's no timeline for when this might make it to the European Court of Justice, so we'll know what has to be done.

    http://www.galwayindependent.com/local-news/local-news/bypass-'one-step-closer'/
    Galway Chamber President Carmel Brennan has said she is “optimistic” about making progress on plans for the construction of a Galway City Outer Bypass, following a meeting with leading European officials yesterday.

    A delegation consisting of representatives of Galway Chamber, American Chamber of Commerce, Irish Hotels’ Federation and IBEC travelled to Brussels with Deputy Frank Fahey this week to discuss the progression of the project with senior officials from the Environment Directorate General and the EU Environment Commissioner’s Chef de Cabinet Me Kurt Vandenberghe.

    The long-awaited bypass has been held up for over a year by a legal challenge, which claims that plans for the route contravene Article 6.3 of the EU Habitats Directive. The case was recently referred by the Supreme Court to the European Court of Justice, sparking fears that the project could face further lengthy delays.

    However, speaking to the Galway Independent after the meeting, Ms Brennan said the delegation used the opportunity to express the importance of the bypass to the Galway area and received a very positive impression from the European officials.

    “We had a very useful and constructive meeting with the officials and it was a good opportunity to put the case for the Galway City Outer Bypass directly to them. We are always talking about it at home but it was great to put it directly to those in Europe. They were very, very receptive towards it and it was a very frank exchange of views,” she explained.

    Ms Brennan said the delegation were encouraged by the response and approach adopted by the officials. “They recognised the importance of the bypass and the difficulties currently being created by its absence. My main aim was to outline how badly it was needed for tourism, for business and for the infrastructure of the whole city,” she said.

    Supporters of the bypass received a boost in recent weeks when a decision was made to fasttrack a motorway in Germany as there were “imperative reasons of overriding public interest”.

    It is hoped that a case for the Galway bypass could be made on similar grounds, but Ms Brennan said that the officials did not give any indication on its likely success, saying that “every case is different”. However, she added that the officials had offered “fairly constructive suggestions” on how progress could be made.

    Deputy Fahey also confirmed that “extensive work” had been going on “behind the scenes” to progress the project and yesterday’s meeting had moved the bypass “one step closer to becoming a reality”.

    “The German decision has set a precedent for the Galway City Outer Bypass. It means that, for reasons of imperative interest to this area, our bypass can still proceed even though it’s routed through an area of priority natural habitat.”

    “The Supreme Court is still considering the bypass and the issue has been referred to the European Court of Justice for a preliminary hearing. However, I believe that a new planning application should now be prepared, so it is ready for submission to An Bord Pleanála as soon as the Supreme Court makes its decision. This involves the exact same route being presented again to the Bord, in addition to an IROPI case being put before the Commission,” he said.


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    #369
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,992 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    antoobrien wrote: »
    A delegation from interest groups supporting the bypass was in Brussels yesterday meeting with "leading European officials". The claim to have gotten "a very positive impression" and "fairly constructive suggestions".

    Mostly rubbish we have probably heard before. Interestingly they're talking about preparing a new planning application for when the Supreme court make their decision. The disappointing thing from my view is that there's no timeline for when this might make it to the European Court of Justice, so we'll know what has to be done.

    http://www.galwayindependent.com/local-news/local-news/bypass-'one-step-closer'/
    It's interesting that the German A49 autobahn is going ahead on this basis. On the map, it doesn't look totally essential, as it merely cuts the corner for Frankfurt-> Kassel traffic, which currently has to use A5->A7. However, the time saving must be considerable.

    If this is so, then Galway is an even bigger candidate, as a city bypass has an even more dramatic effect on congestion relief than an intercity route.


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    #370
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Dempsey gave no money for redesigning the western section that was rejected by an Bord Pleanála. An enterprising Fine Gaeler should ask why.


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    #371
    Chris_5339762
    Registered Users Posts: 5,870 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    At least theres a group over in Europe to ask about this, rather than a group of NIMBYs foaming at the mouth.


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    #372
    KevR
    Registered Users Posts: 3,110 ✭✭✭KevR


    The N6 corridor is heavily car dominated and carries a Daily Traffic Flow of 50,000 vehicles.
    http://www.galwaycity.ie/GeneralNews/210311_02.html

    Crazy traffic on a road which is littered with terrible at-grade junctions (including dedicated pedestrian crossings at road level).

    I think it reflects badly on Galway when there are still people arguing against the bypass and road investement in general.
    Galway is one of the few places in the whole entire country that is actually seeing some job creation at the moment.....despite our utterly shite road/transport network. Imagine if we had a good road/transport network..


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    #373
    antoobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    KevR wrote: »
    http://www.galwaycity.ie/GeneralNews/210311_02.html

    Crazy traffic on a road which is littered with terrible at-grade junctions (including dedicated pedestrian crossings at road level).

    Worse, they think that gluas is a viable alternative.

    Worse still the city council are actively considering this.

    They're basing this thing loosely on luas but luas doesn't use streets that were main traffic conduits (before 2001) and these streets had alternative routes available. Something like this can only be possible if there is an alternative to going through the city to get to the other side (what's that called, oh yeah a bypass).

    The gluas proposal: cause more traffic at the already overcapacity & busiest junctions in town. Bearing in mind that the proposed routes are straight along the busiest routes and junctions which handle the majority of the city's traffic, with no space to accommodate two tacks and two lanes of traffic (and a bus lane along the Dublin road), this is utter madness!


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    #374
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,496 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Signalising the main problem RABs will be about as effective as telling a cat not to crap in your garden, tbh.


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    #375
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users Posts: 6,814 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    antoobrien wrote: »
    Worse still the city council are actively considering this.
    These had been singled out last year as problematic for the rail system which has been priced at €200m, an amount which was contingent on just minimal digging up of the city streets.

    Obviously The Connaught Sentinal doesnt know the difference between BRT and LRT (which Gluas would be) because a quick look at the Galway Public Transport Feasibility Study will tell you;
    The following overall capital costs estimates associate with the implementation of the revised bus network, expansion of bus fleet, and implementation of the Rapid Transit Corridor, as either BRT, or LRT are:
    • Overall cost, BRT + Bus = €204 million, and
    • Overall cost, LRT + Bus = €788 million.


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    #376
    antoobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    http://www.galwaynews.ie/18997-outer-bypass-biggest-impediment-galways-progress
    Leading industry figures have singled out the lack of a city bypass as the biggest impediment to attracting more companies to Galway, which has bucked the national trend in the last six months with the creation by multinationals of 900 jobs.

    Galway is seen as one of the key success stories in the country by the IDA when it comes to securing direct foreign investment, particularly by US companies who are looking to locate in Europe or who wish to expand their operations here.

    While there have been no major job losses here since the recession hit, there have been a constant series of job announcements. Since October nine companies have announced plans to take on at least 900 new employees.

    Gerry Kilcommins, general manager of Medtronic Galway - who this year was elected president of the American Chamber of Commerce in Ireland - believes there are a number of reasons why US companies are choosing the city in increasing numbers.

    Companies always ask about the educational infrastructure, talent and workforce available and Galway’s two reputable institutes of education stand out, he stated.

    “This cluster effect has built up in Galway, particularly in the medical technology industry. Indigenous companies have set up in close proximity to supply the mainline companies. The third level colleges have set up programmes geared to the industries based in the city,” said Mr Kilcommins, who is also vice president of global operations for Medtronic’s vascular business.

    Galway and the west of Ireland are seen as an attractive place to live, put down roots and raise a family, which is a major advantage when it comes to seeking highly sought-after recruits.

    While accessibility to and from Galway has been largely addressed with the motorways to Dublin and Shannon, this is one area that still needs significant investment.

    “The Galway City Outer Bypass was talked about but nothing is happening about it. I see it as important in terms of the whole traffic gridlock and the continuing development of the city and of the region as a whole,” he stated.

    For full story see this week's Connacht Tribune.


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    #377
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,496 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    There were traffic counters all out around where the western, no planning permission section would have ended this week


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    #378
    antoobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    I sent an email to Eamon O'Cuiv about a month ago inquiring about the responses to questions submitted to the minster for transport regarding the bypass and M17/18 projects. the questions were originally raised on the M17/18 thread.

    O'Cuiv's office got back to me last week a letter from the NRA outlining the position of the GCOB (the status of the M17/18 is clearer).

    Summary of the letter (I'm not sure if it's a good idea to post it fully here).
    Galway County Council (& NRA) applied for permission to build the road in December 2006, A.B.P. granted permission with conditions in November 2008 (i.e. no western half).

    Two judicial reviews aimed at quashing the permission prevented construction from starting, which were rejected by the high court in October 2009. Gormless & Sweetman appealed to the Supreme Court, who stated their intention to refer it to the ECJ in July 2010, where it still sits.

    Interestingly the letter implies it is not clear if any questions have been submitted to the ECJ by the Supreme Court.


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    #379
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    antoobrien wrote: »
    A.B.P. granted permission with conditions in November 2008 (i.e. no western half).
    The county council had a monthly meeting last night. Frank Gilmore ( roads boss) apparently mentioned that there is a plan to progress the Western Section as a "Link Road" which sounds rather like a regional road to me not an N Road. No that it matters. Waterford has a dual carriageway R Road southern bypass which is fine apart from too many roundabouts.

    If Frank said these mysterious plans were appearing "in the summer" I hope someone asked him ....what year Frank and why have we heard nothing from you for 2.5 years so far ??:)


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    #380
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,496 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    Waterford has a dual carriageway R Road southern bypass which is fine apart from too many roundabouts.

    And a 60k speed limit


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    #381
    mayo23
    Registered Users Posts: 22 ✭mayo23


    Aside from building the bypass, the whole traffic management system in Galway city needs to be overhauled.

    What needs to be realised is that the vast majority of motorists entering galway from the N18, N17 and M6 are not intending to pass through the city, they are going INTO the city.

    Of course the bypass would help, but its not the only thing that needs to be done to sort out Galway's traffic problems. First thing: get rid of the bloody bus lanes!!!


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    #382
    veryangryman
    Registered Users Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭veryangryman


    mayo23 wrote: »
    Aside from building the bypass, the whole traffic management system in Galway city needs to be overhauled.

    What needs to be realised is that the vast majority of motorists entering galway from the N18, N17 and M6 are not intending to pass through the city, they are going INTO the city.

    Of course the bypass would help, but its not the only thing that needs to be done to sort out Galway's traffic problems. First thing: get rid of the bloody bus lanes!!!

    I know this is a mainly pro car forum (and im very pro car) but i dont think removing one of the few advantages public transport has will alleviate traffic. Quite the opposite IMO as more and more frustrated commuters see what Monaghan & Sons dealership have to offer them.

    Gluas (if ever built) will be a godsend to the city - the bypass too (to a lesser extent).


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    #383
    dubhthach
    Registered Users Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    Galway traffic was bad before the bus lane was put in and that's when I use to live there (up until 2007) I don't think ye going to see any noticable improvement if you remove the bus lane.


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    #384
    kiwipower
    Registered Users Posts: 802 ✭✭✭kiwipower


    mayo23 wrote: »
    ... What needs to be realised is that the vast majority of motorists entering galway from the N18, N17 and M6 are not intending to pass through the city, they are going INTO the city....

    I would add a caveat to this statement. While a lot of traffic is trying to enter the city centre. I think the "rush hour" issues also highlight that a lot of motorists are trying to get around the city as well. For example, a large workforce works in the UHG and the University and a high percentage of these staff live to the inland side of the city. (Some from as far away as Counties Limerick, Roscommon and Clare.) You also have the issue of people living in the Salthill/Knocknacarra and further west, working on the eastern side of the city. This is why the bypass of the city is essential. Combined with this, is the annual tourist trail from the rest of Ireland to Salthill, Connemara and the Arran Islands. (That’s all without mentioning Race Week traffic.)


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    #385
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    "Summer" ( by one definition) is over on friday and Frank Gilmore has not produced his "link road" plans referred to in May in this very thread. Get the finger out Frank willya.


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    #386
    veryangryman
    Registered Users Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭veryangryman


    Im just wondering...

    Existing M6 roundabout around Doughiska - is this to be removed if/when the bypass gets built?

    I mean will it be possible to drive Heuston to near Barna without encountering a roundabout?


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    #387
    johnnyk66
    Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭johnnyk66


    veryangryman wrote: »
    Im just wondering...

    Existing M6 roundabout around Doughiska - is this to be removed if/when the bypass gets built?

    I mean will it be possible to drive Heuston to near Barna without encountering a roundabout?


    Proposed M6/GCOB junction is between airport and Doughiska RAB so there should be no RABs between Barna and Heuston if the GCOB is ever built,:) IMO you'll be waiting about 12 years :(


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    #388
    dubhthach
    Registered Users Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    veryangryman wrote: »
    Im just wondering...

    Existing M6 roundabout around Doughiska - is this to be removed if/when the bypass gets built?

    I mean will it be possible to drive Heuston to near Barna without encountering a roundabout?

    Well the idea is that Outer Bypass would spilt off the M6 between the current N18 junction and Doughiska, the section there (signed N6) would become a spur.

    There would be two roundabouts on the Western section which isn't built to motorway standard (this is bit refused due to Bog cotton)

    eismap.jpg

    Check out the scheme summary pdf here:
    http://www.galway.ie/RoadProjects/n6_outer/N6brochure.pdf

    It would appear to be HQDC from roundabout for the Western Distributor road


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    #389
    veryangryman
    Registered Users Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭veryangryman


    dubhthach wrote: »
    Well the idea is that Outer Bypass would spilt off the M6 between the current N18 junction and Doughiska, the section there (signed N6) would become a spur.

    There would be two roundabouts on the Western section which isn't built to motorway standard (this is bit refused due to Bog cotton)

    eismap.jpg

    Check out the scheme summary pdf here:
    http://www.galway.ie/RoadProjects/n6_outer/N6brochure.pdf

    It would appear to be HQDC from roundabout for the Western Distributor road


    In these "take what ya can get" times, its probably greedy of me to say but...

    More roundabouts...What the fugg! Surely the traffic levels there would justify freeflow. I know its only the westside but sake, everybody lives that way.


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    #390
    dubhthach
    Registered Users Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    veryangryman wrote: »
    In these "take what ya can get" times, its probably greedy of me to say but...

    More roundabouts...What the fugg! Surely the traffic levels there would justify freeflow. I know its only the westside but sake, everybody lives that way.

    Well obviously if you are coming from Knocnatallaght (© Sponge Bob) then you probably only have one roundabout to deal with, this been the one which connects to Western Distrubtor road. Of course the main goal of the Outer Bypass is to remove through traffic from the city. So any traffic going to Cliftden / Cois Fharraige won't have to traverse the city center. The original plan entail the first 2-3Km's of the western section been 2+1


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    #391
    antoobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    mayo23 wrote: »
    What needs to be realised is that the vast majority of motorists entering galway from the N18, N17 and M6 are not intending to pass through the city, they are going INTO the city.

    Nice theory, not nice to be in Galway this week to see it categorically disproved. The traffic chaos caused by roadworks on the Quincentary bridge and University Rd (see local thread for coverage) kinda debunks that myth.


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