freeview uk in sandyford/leopardstown

timetunnel · 20-05-2010 1:45pm #1

anybody picking up freeview in sandyford/leopardstown {south dublin].
messing around with aerial on roof at the moment.
any tips.
thank you

JazzyJ · 20-05-2010 2:42pm

timetunnel wrote: »

anybody picking up freeview in sandyford/leopardstown {south dublin].
messing around with aerial on roof at the moment.
any tips.
thank you

I've a group A aerial with masthead amp pointing at Blaenplwyf. Still really testing it out as I've the aerial half way up the mast pole, so that's bound to affect it negatively.

Have great reception from the two high power channels (24 and 27 I think) 90% of the time. The lower power muxes can struggle a bit at times. Haven't got a HD tuner so haven't had a chance to check how that comes in, but presumably it'll be similar to the high powered channels. Reception should hopefully improve with moving it up to the top of the pole, but the missus (and myself) doesn't exactly fancy detaching the pole from the chimney and reattaching it! This was setup without using a meter to align it correctly - just used google maps to get a rough bearing.

Also tried Arfon with a wideband inside the loft and the reception was variable on this - haven't tested this outside. Still not sure on what to go for on the final setup.

timetunnel · 20-05-2010 3:18pm

what direction did you point towards.
was it towards kiliney hill, or to the right of it.
this is the silly part.
should the arrow part of the aerial be pointing in the direction or the long shaft of the aerial be pointing in the direction.
thank in advance

Sam Russell · 20-05-2010 3:43pm

timetunnel wrote: »

what direction did you point towards.
was it towards kiliney hill, or to the right of it.
this is the silly part.
should the arrow part of the aerial be pointing in the direction or the long shaft of the aerial be pointing in the direction.
thank in advance

The actual active bit is where the wires connect. That is the dipole (if it is a yagi) and the 'arrow' bit is the reflector. These elements are larger than the dipole. They are away from the transmitter. The long 'shaft' carries the 'directors' and are closest to the transmitter. But the shorter elements are always pointing towards the transmitter.

The elements should be parallel with the ground (horizontal polarisation) for BP and Llandonna and vertical (vertical polarisation) for Arfon.

If you use Google Maps, find the transmitter in Wales and draw a line back to your house, then zoom in on your house, and find local land marks. Avoid trees if you can.

Best of luck, it worked for me in Bray.

20-05-2010 5:11pm

Arrow part pointing away,long shaft pointing towards.

JazzyJ · 20-05-2010 6:46pm

timetunnel wrote: »

what direction did you point towards.
was it towards kiliney hill, or to the right of it.
this is the silly part.
should the arrow part of the aerial be pointing in the direction or the long shaft of the aerial be pointing in the direction.
thank in advance

As was mentioned here before the best way is to do a map in google maps, with lines from the transmitters to your house. Then you can figure out landmarks for pointing the aerial.

For me, south (right) of Killiney Hill worked for Arfon and north of Bray for Blaenplwyf. Never got anything from Lllandonna, probably because of Killiney Hill and/or parts of Angelsey.

timetunnel · 20-05-2010 11:34pm

thank you.
will mess around with it over the weekend

timetunnel · 21-05-2010 9:26pm

first of all.
would like to thank every one for there help.
picked up maximal 44-f uhf - antenne aerial c/21-69 , 34 elements.
not sure what transmitter i'm picking up.
used a cheap signal meter got for 18 euros.
showed weak signal.pointing to the right of kiliney hill. i think towards hollyhead. downloaded 87 channels between channels 21-69.
delighted with result. in the last few minutes lost virgin , film 4 ,sky sportnews/news ,dave ja vu . not upset. will try angleing the antenna tomorrow ,see does it make a difference .
aerial is only about a meter above chimney.
location gallops , leopardstown .[ lower end of the estate]
hope information i have given will help others around the area.
any idea what transmitter i might have picked up

timetunnel · 21-05-2010 10:26pm

signal dropped on all channels, got back up on roof.
could see heavy fog. over kiliney hill.
will check back in the morning.
would say fog dropping signal.
is there anyway to boost signal when fog is around.

JazzyJ · 22-05-2010 12:20am

timetunnel wrote: »

first of all.
would like to thank every one for there help.
picked up maximal 44-f uhf - antenne aerial c/21-69 , 34 elements.
not sure what transmitter i'm picking up.
used a cheap signal meter got for 18 euros.
showed weak signal.pointing to the right of kiliney hill. i think towards hollyhead. downloaded 87 channels between channels 21-69.
delighted with result. in the last few minutes lost virgin , film 4 ,sky sportnews/news ,dave ja vu . not upset. will try angleing the antenna tomorrow ,see does it make a difference .
aerial is only about a meter above chimney.
location gallops , leopardstown .[ lower end of the estate]
hope information i have given will help others around the area.
any idea what transmitter i might have picked up

Had typed up a reply but lost it. From the sounds of it you're picking up llandona or blaenplyf. Arfon doesn't have sky sports news or virgin. What channels are you picking up? Blaenplwyf has 21,22,24,25,27,28 but is more towards bray head than killiney from here. Llandona is mid 40s-60 from what I can remember.

A masthead amp will help boost the signal, and a grouped aerial should help especially if you're trying to get the lower channels ie Blaenplwyf.

Currently I've 97% strength 100% quality on the high powered channels and 95/80 on the lower power ones from blaenplyf. had 100% quality on them earlier. Bear in mind the good weather is helping greatly at the moment.

22-05-2010 8:29am

JazzyJ wrote: »

Bear in mind the good weather is helping greatly at the moment.

It shouldn't be...
Often good weather makes a signal worse.

2 things happen-high pressure brings in more distant signals that compete with the one you are watching reducing signal strength and quality according to your receivers meter and once quality goes below 40,you will have drop outs.

The other thing that happens in good weather is sea fog[warm air over a cold sea].
Seapath uhf signals hate sea fog.

Ironically and happily rainy wet days [unless theres sea fog with it] generally doesn't affect seapath uhf too much-it might lower the signal strength a bit but cofdm copes very very well with it.

With analogue sea path,it may have got very snowy at times.

Another thing about welsh sea path...if you have a weatherfront approaching from the south and for up to 24hrs before the rain arrives,signal can get very very strong.
I don't know the science behind it but it happens.

To answer Time tunnel-theres nothing worthwhile you can do about the fog,just sit it out and have your aerial pointed and set up correctly.
If set up correctly then the fog drop outs will be brief.
If they are longer,it's something else causing it [assuming aerial is set up properly] and thats usually far away tx interference.

I'm guessing you were receiving llandonna by the way.
It comes and goes.BP in your area should be more stable if pointed right.

timetunnel · 22-05-2010 2:11pm

load of channel come in between c23 -c33 and the rest from mid 40 up.
what is grouped aerial ?,
have did e few rescans, since last night.
one stage durning the night 142 channels loaded.
but when i came down this morning, had no signal.
tried angling aerial, brought in 50+, all the main channels and sky news/sport news and virgin.
few pixals now and again.[sky channels and virgin dropping in and out]
will see how signal drops over the day.
wish i had got a group A aerial. most people say is better for up here.
when i was bought the aerial i got ,the guy in zintek said the it was for freeview.
i'm going back on the roof now to mess around

mrdtv2010 · 22-05-2010 2:35pm

Current fine weather will rope in loads of Welsh and West Country DTT signals.

These are the channel numbers:

B-P: 27, 24, (PSB); 25, 22, 28 (COM), 21 (HD, T2 box needed)
Arfon: 41, 41 (PSB); 47 (HD, T2, activated later in summer)
Llanddona : 57, 60 (PSB), 43, 46, 50 (COM), 53 (HD, T2, June 10 2010)
Preseli: 43, 46, (PSB);42, 45, 49 (COM), 50 (HD, T2, June 10 2010)
Redruth: 44, 41 (PSB);48,52, 51 (COM); 47 (HD, T2, September 2010)
Caradon Hill:28, 25 (PSB); 21,24, 27 (COM); 22 (HD, T2, August 11 2010)

The last two are West Country transmitters and Caradon Hill is the most powerful transmitter facing Ireland: it will be a summer visitor. It now appears that those in North Wicklow & South Dublin can receive B-P as they are outside the 15 degree null towards Arklow and B-P has to link up with NW Wales. Llanddona is also possible in this area but B-P is 3dB more powerful and Group A, there will however be CCI with Divis analogue and Caldbeck.

Probably below Rosslare Caradon Hill may be a go on the coast because of its very high HAAT, Group A and 100kW ERP. I am informed it is being received on the South Coast. In the intervening areas Preseli and Arfon will be present as usual, Arfon will provide an excellent HD signal from later in the summer as will Preseli.
Note Arfon is vertically polarised, the rest are horizontals.

22-05-2010 5:13pm

redruth analogue used be a regular visitor in arklow.
It caused horrid co channel on arfon but came in well on presely configs.

I've had caradon here regularly in dtt since dso.
We had it weakly here on a normal day when testing a group a.

I'm convinced a quad group A would bring it in here.

22-05-2010 5:20pm

llandonna is coming in perfect today.

Mr dtv-a regular visitor here and perfect today is long mountain on ch53.

It says a lot for how effective the bp null towards arklow is when the long mtn tx is blasting in on high pressure despite being lower power and much further due east albeit in the same direction.

timetunnel · 22-05-2010 8:08pm

just a little update
channel......signal strength..........signal quality
22 67% 100%
24 67% 100%
25 76% 100%
27 75% 100%
28 49% 100%
42 74% 100%
45 70% 100%

should i be happy with the readings above for the listed channels, or should i be getting better.

mrdtv2010 · 24-05-2010 9:16am

timetunnel wrote: »

just a little update
channel......signal strength..........signal quality
22 67% 100%
24 67% 100%
25 76% 100%
27 75% 100%
28 49% 100%
42 74% 100%
45 70% 100%

should i be happy with the readings above for the listed channels, or should i be getting better.

The Group A channels are from Blaen-Plwyf, the PSB muxes are 40kW and the COM muxes are 10kW. If the receiver is reporting correctly the last two channels are from Moel-y-Parc which is very impressive indeed. This is another 20kW high power DTT station on the North Wales coast with very high site and high mast. It is received in South and East Down. These readings are very good and if all weather consistent then service will be very reliable. 100% quality = error free pictures. Ch 28 is inevitably lower signal as it is 6dB down on PSB muxes from Blaen-Plwyf.

24-05-2010 12:18pm

42 and 45 would have been presely actually in my opinion.
Presely was so strong yesterday that we had sky news obliterating mt leinsters ch 45.
It was so strong yesterday,there were flames coming from the aerial practically.

I would be concerned that your aerial is pointed too far south for B-P as your presely signals are stronger than your B-P yesterday.

You need to peak your aerial for the B-P psb muxes.

JazzyJ · 24-05-2010 2:16pm

Deleted User wrote: »

It shouldn't be...
Often good weather makes a signal worse.

2 things happen-high pressure brings in more distant signals that compete with the one you are watching reducing signal strength and quality according to your receivers meter and once quality goes below 40,you will have drop outs.

The other thing that happens in good weather is sea fog[warm air over a cold sea].
Seapath uhf signals hate sea fog.

Ironically and happily rainy wet days [unless theres sea fog with it] generally doesn't affect seapath uhf too much-it might lower the signal strength a bit but cofdm copes very very well with it.

Fair enough, you lot have been doing this for a lot longer than I have. For me since I've had the aerial up (less than 2 months), generally good weather has improved reception. We'll see how I get on over the summer (and with moving the aerial up to the top of the mast so its not a have assed job!)

mrdtv2010 · 24-05-2010 4:45pm

Deleted User wrote: »

42 and 45 would have been presely actually in my opinion.
Presely was so strong yesterday that we had sky news obliterating mt leinsters ch 45.
It was so strong yesterday,there were flames coming from the aerial practically.

I would be concerned that your aerial is pointed too far south for B-P as your presely signals are stronger than your B-P yesterday.

You need to peak your aerial for the B-P psb muxes.

You are probably right about Preseli rather than M-y-P: its a straight sea path from South Dublin and no CCI from Mt Leinster. M-Y-P and Llanddona are probably no gos because of the hills in the way on the Welsh side, although they are good in South Down and East Down (sea-paths). These results show that B-P is coming in well in South Dublin & North Wicklow and presumably also south of the Arklow null. An interesting test will come tomorrow when the temperature drops up to twelve degrees to more normal May conditions. Those B-P signals recorded are actually excellent.

24-05-2010 8:20pm

JazzyJ wrote: »

Fair enough, you lot have been doing this for a lot longer than I have. For me since I've had the aerial up (less than 2 months), generally good weather has improved reception. We'll see how I get on over the summer (and with moving the aerial up to the top of the mast so its not a have assed job!)

We're probably spoiled in wexford and south wicklow in that we are now in a default actual presely coverage area.
In normal weather near Arklow I have 70% signal strength on the presely psb muxes at a min.
South of here they are above 90%

I would reiterate the concern that presely was coming in stronger there for you than B-P
It shouldn't be.
Half the power and off beam if you are pointed correctly at B-P.

JazzyJ · 24-05-2010 11:22pm

Deleted User wrote: »

We're probably spoiled in wexford and south wicklow in that we are now in a default actual presely coverage area.
In normal weather near Arklow I have 70% signal strength on the presely psb muxes at a min.
South of here they are above 90%

I would reiterate the concern that presely was coming in stronger there for you than B-P
It shouldn't be.
Half the power and off beam if you are pointed correctly at B-P.

I think you're mixing myself and timetunnel up. i'm not getting anything from Preseli. I've 90% strength and 100% quality this evening from BP.

However, I did a scan and was picking up something on channels 59/60 with a group a aerial??? Transmitter info said north-west! Just had a quick look on ukfree.tv and only transmitter i could find with those channels was Winter Hill. Ideas?

25-05-2010 9:09am

JazzyJ wrote: »

I think you're mixing myself and timetunnel up. i'm not getting anything from Preseli. I've 90% strength and 100% quality this evening from BP.

However, I did a scan and was picking up something on channels 59/60 with a group a aerial??? Transmitter info said north-west! Just had a quick look on ukfree.tv and only transmitter i could find with those channels was Winter Hill. Ideas?

yup-mixing you up alright.
Your b-p looks stable with very good signal.There was little or no lift yesterday.
I suspect btw that rather than B-P being omni directional with a null towards Arklow,that it is set up like the old analogue ie a complete null to the west but with the full 40kw fired to the nw and sw to catch both peninsula's.

Edited to ask-does B-p share channels with dso divis?
If so expect problems from late 2012 when divis goes high power.

mrdtv2010 · 25-05-2010 9:09am

JazzyJ wrote: »

I think you're mixing myself and timetunnel up. i'm not getting anything from Preseli. I've 90% strength and 100% quality this evening from BP.

However, I did a scan and was picking up something on channels 59/60 with a group a aerial??? Transmitter info said north-west! Just had a quick look on ukfree.tv and only transmitter i could find with those channels was Winter Hill. Ideas?

59 is Winter Hill, but not 60. 60 could be WH low power relay but unlikely in Ireland.
http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/transmitternetwork/tools__and__resources/almanac/pdfs/Granada_DSO_v5.0.pdf.
Llanddona D3 & 4 is on 60 and Winter Hill D3&4 is on 59. NB Douglas D3&4 is on Ch60 and that is North West Group but it is VP.

mrdtv2010 · 25-05-2010 9:20am

Deleted User wrote: »

yup-mixing you up alright.
Your b-p looks stable with very good signal.There was little or no lift yesterday.
I suspect btw that rather than B-P being omni directional with a null towards Arklow,that it is set up like the old analogue ie a complete null to the west but with the full 40kw fired to the nw and sw to catch both peninsula's.

Its more likely using the modern antenna systems now in use that they will just have got three of four panels if its a 16 beam cartioid system with the 9dB reduction. There aren't any up to date photographs on the mb21 web site alas. Certainly, as you say, the full beams are fired to the NW (good for Dublin and North Wicklow as we now see), and probably good down at Rosslare. It has a great advantage over Preseli, if a choice is available between the two, is that there are no channel 'interactions' with RTENL transmitters, although the B-P COM muxes are only 10kW. BTW anybody getting B-P can get HD and, probably, RTENL DVB-T1 MPEG4 tests.

mrdtv2010 · 25-05-2010 9:25am

Deleted User wrote: »

yup-mixing you up alright.
Your b-p looks stable with very good signal.There was little or no lift yesterday.
I suspect btw that rather than B-P being omni directional with a null towards Arklow,that it is set up like the old analogue ie a complete null to the west but with the full 40kw fired to the nw and sw to catch both peninsula's.

Edited to ask-does B-p share channels with dso divis?
If so expect problems from late 2012 when divis goes high power.

Yes, it does. But there seems to be no CCI from Divis analogue which has the same channels as B-P PSB and Divis analogue is 500kW. CCI between analogue and digital would manifest as quality considerably less than 100% on DTT: this is not the case here. The distances are large and South Dublin is right at the edge of the Divis footprint, and the angular separation is probably 135 degrees which also helps. Divis PSB will be 21, 24, 27 @ 100kW and Divis COMs will be 23, 26, 29 @ 50kW.

timetunnel · 28-05-2010 8:20pm

changed aerial to group A [ diamond colour quad 8 & 11 aerial]
only put it up. will mess around tomorrow
channels that came in were 42 ,57 , 58 , 59 , 60 , 61 , 62
last three have strongest signals coming from north west.[ what transmitter is that]
wide band aerial kept loosing signals , hopefully this group A will do better

mrdtv2010 · 28-05-2010 8:31pm

See my post earlier. 58, 61 and 62 are from Winter Hill which is the main transmitter of the North West Group near Bolton in Lancashire. It has very high HAAT, very tall mast and is 100kW ERP. It is received every day in South and East Down. 42 and 45 are either MyP or Preseli. You need to establish which channels are on which muxes and then look at the Ofcom listings. 57 and 60 are from LLanddona.

timetunnel · 28-05-2010 8:48pm

thanks
what knocked me back was , three different transmitter coming in at once.
will have time tomorrow to mess around,
will keep you updated

29-05-2010 9:53am

There was some lift yesterday and occasionally over the last while.

In lift,you could point your aerial at the moon and keep getting those channels.

What you need is a proper meter that does digital channels and go to ch24.
Have the group A aerial mounted on a solid straight pole [no lean on it] and have the bracket loose enough that you can turn the pole such that your aerial turns a half inch at a time.
Start south of howth and keep moving untill the needle or the digital numbers start to go up.
When it starts to rise keep going untill it starts to fall,then go back a bit to the peak.
Try not to settle for less than 35db.
Thats without an amp with the aerial cable plugged into the meter on it's own.
If you haven't a small amp in the meter ,then anything above 25db might do.

Then when you have peaked the signal-tighten the screws on the aerial clamp and feed the cable into the amp and the other cable out and down to the amps power supply unit.
Hook the aerial cable to the "aerial in" clamp there and have an aerial wire out to go to the receiver or tv.
Plug in the psu and auto tune the receiver and see what happens.

Sorry for the simple detail,but you never know

Repeat and rinse for the llandonna channels with the wideband.

christo82 · 29-05-2010 10:01am

Hi, could someone post a pic of what aerial you are using for this? I'm just curious what size and shape aerial it requires.

Thanks

freeview uk in sandyford/leopardstown

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